779 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkSpiral]

jerms510 wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

<-------Biology




<-------Your head

DNA is the same across species, it just gets arranged differently. So yes, there will be a new DNA due to synthesis, but by no means does that mean everything is now the same species. Back to high school with you.

...Didn't Furlunge just say the same thing you did?  That the vareity fo life will continue

[Bigdoser]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

Exactly thats why I can never pick control or synthesis. 

[Obliterati]

I find it hard to even get interested in the philisophical and ethical aspects of the synthesis ending because it's just too goofy to sustain suspension of disbelief. An energy wave that instantly transforms everyone it touches into a cyborg? It's just too silly and space-magicy, even for a science fiction series.

[goofyomnivore]

To sum it up. Before Synthesis all organic life uses the same basis. (DNA) Yet it's not all the same bloody thing. IRL DNA allows for incredible amounts of variety of life. There's no reason to think after Synthesis everything will be the same.

I didn't say all life would be the same. I said that a human pre-Synthesis is not the same as a "human" post-Synthesis biologically. The human DNA no longer exists, because that DNA framework has been replaced by something completely new.

That's evolution, not genocide He did not say DNA no longer exists, or it's basic nature has changed.

Nobody has said DNA doesn't exist anymore. Only that the old DNA/framework is gone, extinct or whatever you want to call it.

[DarkSpiral]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

The Reapers want to harvest advanced civilizations so that they won't create synthetic life that will "inevitably" revolt against their creators and wipe all forms of organic life from the galaxy.  Synthesis  removes both players from the board and replaces them with...something new.  The Reapers don't get what they want.  They become obsolete.

[TobiTobsen]

How exactly are the Relays not destroyed in the Control ending?

Watch it: http://www.youtube.c...jgROzS0#t=3m14s

The thing is exploding in blue light after it fired the wave and parts are flying everywhere.

[hawat333]

Hmm, gotta try it next.
The destruction ending is pretty sad and beautyful too, all at the same time.

[hismastersvoice]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

You do realize that evolution rearranged our genitic code making us who we are and not chimps. That is exactly what happens hear, but it skips long time it normally takes.

Evolution happens as a result of environmental stimuli, not becasue some brat thinks it should. Sythesis is not evolution.

[Deepthroat]

DarkSpiral wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

The Reapers want to harvest advanced civilizations so that they won't create synthetic life that will "inevitably" revolt against their creators and wipe all forms of organic life from the galaxy.  Synthesis  removes both players from the board and replaces them with...something new.  The Reapers don't get what they want.  They become obsolete.

Exactly.

[DarkSpiral]

TobiTobsen wrote...

How exactly are the Relays not destroyed in the Control ending?

Watch it: http://www.youtube.c...jgROzS0#t=3m14s

The thing is exploding in blue light after it fired the wave and parts are flying everywhere.

She (i think) doesn't believe it.  My advice, just let it die.

[Furluge]

Sonashi wrote...
Let me put it this way.
In our world child receive DNA from mother and father. Crossing-over you know. It provides individuality of all new born human. In ME 3 after synthesis it doesn't exist anymore. All species lost their individuality. So doesn't matter if father is a krogan or human. How can this be a good thing? All in all baby will be the same THING no matter what. Yes I called them things becasue they aren't humans anymore

A) After synthesis there's a new framework that all life is based on. No where does it say every single piece of life has the exact identical combination of this new Green Space Magic DNA (GSMDNA) code. The same way IRL you and a bloody Oak Tree both have DNA, but you're not an Oak tree because your deoxyribonucleic acids happen to be arranged in a different pattern than an Oak tree's is. Let that sink in. The only reason you're not an Oak tree is because a few acids happened to be in a different pattern than the tree's is. If we swap out those acids for some new ones with our space magic beam, it doesn't mean the new acids are arranged in the same pattern as an oak tree. Or anything elses for that matter, which means everyone still has different GSMDNA, which means GSMDNA doesn't necessarily stop sexual reproduction. 

 Plenty of current, DNA bearing organisms in the real world do not sexually reproduce. The reason you see sexual reporduction in many life forms is that it allows for faster evolution by combining two sets of DNA, to randomize things a bit more than just waiting for mutations to happen. That's it.

[Deepthroat]

Obliterati wrote...

I find it hard to even get interested in the philisophical and ethical aspects of the synthesis ending because it's just too goofy to sustain suspension of disbelief. An energy wave that instantly transforms everyone it touches into a cyborg? It's just too silly and space-magicy, even for a science fiction series.

Oh, so apart from that the idea of the Crucible is prefectly valid then? Its supposed capability to destroy all Reapers with one stroke is logical, but having it transform DNA is goofy. It's all bull****.

Modifié par Deepthroat, 13 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[blah64]

Megachaz wrote...

I thought the synthesis option was pure evil. You just essentially altered the intrinsic nature of every living being. You took away the free will of every being in the galaxy.

Exactly. I viewed synthesis as the most evil of the three. To do that to every being in the galaxya fter fight for their very survival was just....the thought was to much to bare.

[Red Templar]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Red Templar:
There is never any proof that anything is inevitable. From some point onwards, you just have to accept the evidence. The problem in this specific case is that there is as much evidence for the claim as there is against it. I think we're supposed to take the Catalyst's word for it, and I would, only that defusing the quarian/geth conflict makes a joke of the claim.

I still go along with it, but it's really bad writing. I'm usually reluctant to make such an accusation, but it's a glaring contradiction.

Personally I'm just not at all prepared to take the Catalyst's word on it.

The logic of the problem is bad. It is a simple fact of the Reapers taking an "often" from "synthetics often rise up against organics" and extrapolating it into an "always and inevitable with the unquestionable consequence of utter anihilation".

I can use the same logic to contruct any number of false dilemmas. Poor people often rise up and kill wealthier people, throughout the world and throughout history. So I decide that the existence of poor people makes it inevitable that all middle class and upper class people will be murdered in an unavoidable class war, and then propose that the solution to this is to organise regular violent communist uprisings where the fortunate are killed and their wealth is redistrubted. And in redistrubuting that wealth, I create new class divides that perpetuate inequality. Sure, maybe I did recognize a legitmate trend in the beginning, but flawed logic lead me to escalate the fundamental problem far beyond the original issue that I was reacting to.

Especially considering that the importance of self-determination is such an important aspect of the mass effect narrative prior to now, I can't swallow the idea that we were wrong and the Reapers were right all along based on god child.

The catalyst is not a reliable source, in any event. It has already admitted that its solution failed, and therefore it is fallable by its own reasoning. And personally, the impression I got from it was that it was a computer that hit a paradox and broke, getting stuck in a loop. The Cataclyst and the Reapers have become the ultimate expression of what they are trying to prevent, and they fixated on a very binary idea of "order" that doesn't allow for progress or reform but demands conformity. Their thought processes are just as warped by the indoctrination effect as those of Saren and the Illusive Man.

Modifié par Red Templar, 13 mars 2012 - 12:51 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarkSpiral wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

The Reapers want to harvest advanced civilizations so that they won't create synthetic life that will "inevitably" revolt against their creators and wipe all forms of organic life from the galaxy.  Synthesis  removes both players from the board and replaces them with...something new.  The Reapers don't get what they want.  They become obsolete.

How? please tell me, how? 

All synthesis does is give organics a few shiny parts. Assuming their thought processes are still the same, then they will inevitably make AI once again by accident or as a means to an end. What's stopping these AI from destroying their creators? These AI will be purely synthetic, so they would not feel this unclarified form of unity the other half man/half machine people supposedly have now.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 13 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[Slayer299]

I do not understand how the synthesis ending could be considered "beautiful" when you just took away the entire galaxy's free will by making a decision to become a organic/synthetic hybrid which is something you've united the galaxy to fight against with you..

Yeah, the war's over, but Shepard's now a Saren+ with that decision.

[Nefelius]

jerms510 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

...I wish people would stop using the Geth and EDI as "proof" that the godchild is wrong about synthetic life.

  have no idea what will happen without Reaper intervention, so cannot say for sure that synthetic and organic life can coexist indefinitely. 

neither has space wizard, because he took away that future from every races every cycle.

Bam!

Modifié par Nefelius, 13 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[DarkSpiral]

Deepthroat wrote...

Obliterati wrote...

I find it hard to even get interested in the philisophical and ethical aspects of the synthesis ending because it's just too goofy to sustain suspension of disbelief. An energy wave that instantly transforms everyone it touches into a cyborg? It's just too silly and space-magicy, even for a science fiction series.

Oh, so apart from that the idea of the Crucible is prefectly valid then? Its supposed capability to destroy all Reapers with one stroke is logical, but having it transform DNA is goofy. It's all bull****.

Well, technically what it does is braodcast it's energy along the mass relays network, and they relays all acts as new orign points for the energy, (and are then destroyed in the process) so it technically isn't one stroke.  But yes, the idea is a little farfetched, especailly in the case of synthesis.  I still prefer the ending.

I mean, I know full and damn well a man can't, and never will, fly under his own power.  I still like Superman.

[MattFini]

Slayer299 wrote...

I do not understand how the synthesis ending could be considered "beautiful" when you just took away the entire galaxy's free will by making a decision to become a organic/synthetic hybrid which is something you've united the galaxy to fight against with you..

Yeah, the war's over, but Shepard's now a Saren+ with that decision.

Hahaha, exactly this.

I hated the synthesis ending so much.  I'm not even sure why it was my first choice.  Oh, right, 'cause they all sucked.

[Furluge]

strive wrote...
I didn't say all life would be the same. I said that a human pre-Synthesis is not the same as a "human" post-Synthesis biologically. The human DNA no longer exists, because that DNA framework has been replaced by something completely new.

You answered (http://social.biowar...9969/11#9864130) my reply to Sonashi (http://social.biowar...9969/10#9863975) where I was explaining to Sonashi that currently IRL every form of life we know of uses DNA, so there's no reason everything would become the same or identical life form when it was replaced with Green Space Magic DNA.

This is why I was I believed you were trying to assert the same point as Sonashi was, otherwise, why talk about that at all?

[Reikilea]

Had it first time by accident. When I couldnt get it back, I tried to persuade myself it doesnt matter thats a good one. Peace and all that. But that was to the point when I saw edi leaving the Normandy... No no no. I dislike her 'character', the fact she is just simple manservice.
I got tired of staring at her shiny metal ****** and bottom. Never used her in fight. I thought her whole character was only one big cliche.
So I quite like syntesis ending, but because she was there I had to change my mind and that made me destroy all synthetics in the universe.
I still miss the geth...After all Legion (best kind of AI) was already gone.

But as Bruce Sterling taught me - genetics wins over mechanics. Let them realise. And please no sexi robots. Not ever.

Modifié par Reikilea, 13 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[DarkSpiral]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

The Reapers want to harvest advanced civilizations so that they won't create synthetic life that will "inevitably" revolt against their creators and wipe all forms of organic life from the galaxy.  Synthesis  removes both players from the board and replaces them with...something new.  The Reapers don't get what they want.  They become obsolete.

How? please tell me, how? 

All synthesis does is give organics a few shiny parts. Assuming their thought processes are still the same, then they will inevitably make AI once again by accident or as a means to an end. What's stopping these AI from destroying their creators? These AI will be purely synthetic, so they would not feel this unclarified form of unity the other half man/half machine people supposedly have now.

Oh, it does nothing to garuntee that some future syntetic race will wage war.  But the purpose for the Reaper's existence is gone.  As presented at the end of ME3, they are not in fact free willed AI creatures, afterall.  They're all controlled by the Catalyst, and the reason for their existence just ceased.  So they might go dormant or something.  Or not.  BECAUSE WE NEVER GET ANY DAMN EXPOSITION.


*pant**pant**pant.

Ahem.  The problem with every ending is that everything is up to us.  We get no conclusion.  No resolutuon.  No closure.  Which is why, while synthesis may be my favorite ending, it still SUCKS.

[Furluge]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

How? please tell me, how? 

All synthesis does is give organics a few shiny parts. Assuming their thought processes are still the same, then they will inevitably make AI once again by accident or as a means to an end. What's stopping these AI from destroying their creators? These AI will be purely synthetic, so they would not feel this unclarified form of unity the other half man/half machine people supposedly have now.

Because the Spacebaby said so. That's as good a reason as you're going to get for any of these endings.

[Detha]

I think the synthesis that the crucible provided and the synthesis that the reapers had been doing were completely different things. I don't see how people have trouble seeing that.  Everything in the galaxy would be synthorganic and thus there would be no reasons to fight.  Synthetic nature dispassionately preserves itself and is non violent unless forced to be violent (self defense, dispassionate).  That's the only self explanatory thing I could gather.  But this was explained to be true synthesis, so that means equal parts of both organic and synthetic.  The way the reapers had performed synthesis left the race an organic husk with a predetermined purpose.  Shepard stated in the narrative that being a being (of an organic mindset) was not like that. 

Moving on, before that thought train becomes messier and more inflated than intended, I think that overwriting everyone's DNA is stupid and wrong, but if it was the only sure-fire option guaranteeing peace, I would have taken it.

Or maybe I would have been pragmatic and picked destruction.

I thought the EDI and Joker thing was nice and was supposed to be the culmination of the overarching moral narrative. Though that narrative came in a bit late.

Modifié par Detha, 13 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[Deepthroat]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Deepthroat wrote...

Obliterati wrote...

I find it hard to even get interested in the philisophical and ethical aspects of the synthesis ending because it's just too goofy to sustain suspension of disbelief. An energy wave that instantly transforms everyone it touches into a cyborg? It's just too silly and space-magicy, even for a science fiction series.

Oh, so apart from that the idea of the Crucible is prefectly valid then? Its supposed capability to destroy all Reapers with one stroke is logical, but having it transform DNA is goofy. It's all bull****.

Well, technically what it does is braodcast it's energy along the mass relays network, and they relays all acts as new orign points for the energy, (and are then destroyed in the process) so it technically isn't one stroke.  But yes, the idea is a little farfetched, especailly in the case of synthesis.  I still prefer the ending.

I mean, I know full and damn well a man can't, and never will, fly under his own power.  I still like Superman.

Doesn't the DNA transformation process work the same way then? By broadcasting that energy along the mass relays network?

But yeah, the Superman analogy is exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone knows he can fly and is fine with that but as soon as he starts turning back time, everyone is like 'That's bull****, Superman can't do that!'

Modifié par Deepthroat, 13 mars 2012 - 12:56 .