779 réponses à ce sujet

[Obliterati]

Deepthroat wrote...

Obliterati wrote...

I find it hard to even get interested in the philisophical and ethical aspects of the synthesis ending because it's just too goofy to sustain suspension of disbelief. An energy wave that instantly transforms everyone it touches into a cyborg? It's just too silly and space-magicy, even for a science fiction series.

Oh, so apart from that the idea of the Crucible is prefectly valid then? Its supposed capability to destroy all Reapers with one stroke is logical, but having it transform DNA is goofy. It's all bull****.

No I agree, all the endings are bull****. But, taking the Destroy ending for example, I can imagine the Reapers having an "off switch". It's stupid and lazy, but at least it's not nonsensical.

[Furluge]

Reikilea wrote...

Had it first time by accident. When I couldnt get it back, I tried to persuade myself it doesnt matter thats a good one. Peace and all that. But that was to the point when I saw edi leaving the Normandy... No no no. I dislike her 'character', the fact she is just simple manservice.
I got tired of staring at her shiny metal ****** and bottom. Never used her in fight. I thought her whole character was only one big cliche.

She does have a uniform you know. ;p Though yes I'm inclined to agree about the apperance. My guess would be she does it to attract Joker from the beginning...

[DarkSpiral]

I suppose she could have repaired the body so that it looked human, as Eva did. The faceplam moment for me was when I realized all her alternative outfits were more or less Miranda's outfits from ME2. The non-DLC ones, that is.

[Furluge]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Ahem.  The problem with every ending is that everything is up to us.  We get no conclusion.  No resolutuon.  No closure.  Which is why, while synthesis may be my favorite ending, it still SUCKS.

I wonder if we could just get that statement bronzed. I'm tired of repeating that too., ;p

[DarkSpiral]

I'm getting it tattooed, right next to my N7.

[goofyomnivore]

She does have a uniform you know. ;p Though yes I'm inclined to agree about the apperance. My guess would be she does it to attract Joker from the beginning...

The uniform is even worse. Go check out the character/romance section. EDI has some bottom-front issues. Also Furluge I think I got my quotes mixed up, sorry for the confusion.

[Red Templar]

Deepthroat wrote...

Doesn't the DNA transformation process work the same way then? By broadcasting that energy along the mass relays network?

The red ending is more plausible though. Frying all the cybernetics in galaxy makes it essentially a series of super EMP blasts originating from the relay network. That is still science fiction, and it is plausible enough to swallow without requiring extreme suspension of disbelief.

The space magic that mutates all life everywhere, installing cybernetics into organics and installing flesh into synthetics using a technology network that wasn't designed from the precesion demands of genetic engineering is a completely out-of-the-blue instance of space magic that doesn't at all conform to what used to be a franchise with very well defined science.

[Zulakkar]

I find that Organic genocide is not that good of a thing to do. Tho I must admit I prefer Green to blue and red Space Magic. Looks prettier.

[General User]

The synthesis ending is nonsense. The way it is supposed to be implemented is nonsense. An energy beam that gives everyone cybernetics or something, really? The rationale behind it is nonsense, organics and synthetics are already perfectly capable of living together peaceably. Cases in point EDI and the geth.

Also, since Shepard is capable of surviving the destroy ending, I see no reason to think that other synthetic life (ie EDI and the geth) could not also. The StarKid may have been lying, or just plain wrong when he tried to lead Shepard to believe that destroying the Reapers would destroy other synthetics as well.

Modifié par General User, 13 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[Furluge]

DarkSpiral wrote...

I suppose she could have repaired the body so that it looked human, as Eva did. The faceplam moment for me was when I realized all her alternative outfits were more or less Miranda's outfits from ME2. The non-DLC ones, that is.

Yep. Although considering she was former Cerberus it wasn't too surprising her costumes would mimic those. I was too busy enjoying her character to be bothered by that. Of course, robots and AI discovering themselves, emotion, understanding the universe, et all, is a theme that generally appeals to me. I blame the Transformers and Mega Man for corrupting my youth.

http://cloud.steampo...53B7446E05514F/
I only forget to recycle the air when I find something truly interesting.

[DemGeth]

I also liked that ending

[baz2012]

The way I see it, I destroyed the Reapers (check), my crew survived (check), I finally shut TIM up with a bullet to the face (check) and I lived (check).

Although there were still answers to be given and for that reason I am still guessing, I would say I achieved everything I wanted from the first minute of playing ME3. I personally did not see the other two options viable and I certainly would not trust that kid further than I could throw him in a dark dreamy wood.

Some people are saying that TIM killed himself in their play through which I would not have been happy with either so I am happy that I got to pull the trigger myself. Once I get this body recovered I am playing God

[Arppis]

I found it to be quite good also.

And technology is space magic as it is. So I didn't find it any less strange. When you don't understand something, it seems magic.

But still, I can relate to people who wanted ending that's more grounded to the reality.

Modifié par Arppis, 13 mars 2012 - 01:08 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

The Reapers want to harvest advanced civilizations so that they won't create synthetic life that will "inevitably" revolt against their creators and wipe all forms of organic life from the galaxy.  Synthesis  removes both players from the board and replaces them with...something new.  The Reapers don't get what they want.  They become obsolete.

How? please tell me, how? 

All synthesis does is give organics a few shiny parts. Assuming their thought processes are still the same, then they will inevitably make AI once again by accident or as a means to an end. What's stopping these AI from destroying their creators? These AI will be purely synthetic, so they would not feel this unclarified form of unity the other half man/half machine people supposedly have now.

Oh, it does nothing to garuntee that some future syntetic race will wage war.  But the purpose for the Reaper's existence is gone.  As presented at the end of ME3, they are not in fact free willed AI creatures, afterall.  They're all controlled by the Catalyst, and the reason for their existence just ceased.  So they might go dormant or something.  Or not.  BECAUSE WE NEVER GET ANY DAMN EXPOSITION.


*pant**pant**pant.

Ahem.  The problem with every ending is that everything is up to us.  We get no conclusion.  No resolutuon.  No closure.  Which is why, while synthesis may be my favorite ending, it still SUCKS.

Their purpose was to protect organic life by harvesting them and preserving their essence. By your logic, the new race of everything is now not classified as organic. If it was, the Reapers would come back. So this means that the Catalyst essentially contradicted it's own goal by making his definition of organic life cease to exist.

[billida]

i played a parangon shepard, and i chose the destruction without any hesitation. Everything astroboy told me sounded wrong, and shepard had been fighting for 5 years to destroy the reapers, noway i chenge my mind in 2 freakin minutes in endgame.

And synthesis is for me the worst choice, not only because you force evolution on the whole galaxy, but because it is the only ending where reapers are left unharmed, neither controlled, neither destroyed, they simplay saty the same hurray. i think synthesis is all they ever wanted, and finally you become them. I can't see how could be a good ending.

[DarkSpiral]

General User wrote...

The synthesis ending is nonsense. The way it is supposed to be implemented is nonsense. An energy beam that gives everyone cybernetics or something, really? The rationale behind it is nonsense, organics and synthetics are perfectly capable of living together peaceably. Cases in point EDI and the geth.

Also, since Shepard is capable of surviving the destroy ending, I see no reason to think that other synthetic life (ie EDI and the geth) could not also. The StarKid may have been lying, or just plain wrong when he tried to lead Shepard to believe that destroying the Reapers would destroy other synthetics as well.

Now, I have considered this and it's a valid point.  He iseems to be wrong, afterall, that all synthetic life will rise up to destroy it's creators.  The Geth, so far, have done nothing of the sort.  So we can assume the brat isn't infallible.  If that ever gains more evidence, it will push my preferences into the red.  I only like green because I know I'm not commiting wholesale slaughter of an entire species.

[Furluge]

baz2012 wrote...

The way I see it, I destroyed the Reapers (check), my crew survived (check), I finally shut TIM up with a bullet to the face (check) and I lived (check).

Although there were still answers to be given and for that reason I am still guessing, I would say I achieved everything I wanted from the first minute of playing ME3. I personally did not see the other two options viable and I certainly would not trust that kid further than I could throw him in a dark dreamy wood.

Some people are saying that TIM killed himself in their play through which I would not have been happy with either so I am happy that I got to pull the trigger myself. Once I get this body recovered I am playing God

I can confirm for you he will kil himself. If you do every persuade option in the last conversation he will eventually kill himself to escape the reaper indoctrination. The speech he gives it at the end is great.

[DarkSpiral]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Their purpose was to protect organic life by harvesting them and preserving their essence. By your logic, the new race of everything is now not classified as organic. If it was, the Reapers would come back. So this means that the Catalyst essentially contradicted it's own goal by making his definition of organic life cease to exist.

Uh....yes?  That's exaclty what I meant.  I'm not sure what you're still confused about, in regard to that, then?  It gave Shepard the option to nullify the Reaper's prime directive.

[DarkSpiral]

Furluge wrote...

baz2012 wrote...

The way I see it, I destroyed the Reapers (check), my crew survived (check), I finally shut TIM up with a bullet to the face (check) and I lived (check).

Although there were still answers to be given and for that reason I am still guessing, I would say I achieved everything I wanted from the first minute of playing ME3. I personally did not see the other two options viable and I certainly would not trust that kid further than I could throw him in a dark dreamy wood.

Some people are saying that TIM killed himself in their play through which I would not have been happy with either so I am happy that I got to pull the trigger myself. Once I get this body recovered I am playing God

I can confirm for you he will kil himself. If you do every persuade option in the last conversation he will eventually kill himself to escape the reaper indoctrination. The speech he gives it at the end is great.

I got this outcome as well, though I tossed a Renegade repsonse into the mix, somwhere in teh middle.  I actually wish I'd provoked him rather than made him see reason.  I'd already seen this scene before, afterall, except TIM's part ws being played by Saren.

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Their purpose was to protect organic life by harvesting them and preserving their essence. By your logic, the new race of everything is now not classified as organic. If it was, the Reapers would come back. So this means that the Catalyst essentially contradicted it's own goal by making his definition of organic life cease to exist.

Uh....yes?  That's exaclty what I meant.  I'm not sure what you're still confused about, in regard to that, then?  It gave Shepard the option to nullify the Reaper's prime directive.

I was just trying to make sure that you understand what you said makes the Catalyst effectively the most mentally backward thing to ever praise storytelling. 

[Furluge]

Hey now, don't call it the catalyst. It's the Spacebaby darnit. It's a child, in space, and it comes out of nowhere at the ending just like 2001 a Space Odyssey.

[DarkSpiral]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I was just trying to make sure that you understand what you said makes the Catalyst effectively the most mentally backward thing to ever praise storytelling. 

I didn't even realize that was in question.  It's a broken machine stuck in a logic loop.  You either break it all the way (destroy) repalce the control program with new software (control) or nullify the prime directive (synthesis), thereby giving it a massive CTD.

Yes I am oversimplifying.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 13 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I was just trying to make sure that you understand what you said makes the Catalyst effectively the most mentally backward thing to ever praise storytelling. 

I didn't even realize that was in question.  It's a broken machine stuck in a logic loop.  You either break it all the way (destroy) repalce the control program with new software (control) or nullify the prime directive (synthesis), thereby giving it a massive CTD.

Yes I am oversimplifying.

The problem there is that the game doesn't establish this. The game establishes this Catalyst as an avatar for a universal truth, not a logically flawed machine. Hence why Shepard cannot question this thing's logic. Had we been able to say "Wait, WTF?" the game would've successfully shown that character as a flawed machine. And with that, the endings would've started making some kind of sense.

This is why many people are unhappy, because they had to accept this universal truth without question, establishing the Catalyst character as logically coherent. It's basically extremely bad storytelling.

TLDR: The game doesn't establish this character as a flawed machine, meaning us thinking it's a flawed machine goes against the writer's intention. 

[DarkSpiral]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The problem there is that the game doesn't establish this. The game establishes this Catalyst as an avatar for a universal truth, not a logically flawed machine. Hence why Shepard cannot question this thing's logic. Had we been able to say "Wait, WTF?" the game would've successfully shown that character as a flawed machine. And with that, the endings would've started making some kind of sense.

This is why many people are unhappy, because they had to accept this universal truth without question, establishing the Catalyst character as logically coherent. It's basically extremely bad storytelling.

TLDR: The game doesn't establish this character as a flawed machine, meaning us thinking it's a flawed machine goes against the writer's intention. 

The game does a fairly lousy job of telling me that the kid is a some kind of universal force, too.  Are you sure you aren't assuming that?  At no point did I get the impression that the Catalyst was anything more than the master control program for the Reapers.

Not that I don't get people being upsset that Shep just goes with the flow.  First time I beat the game I just kinda sat there for a minute or so thinking I had to be missing something,  There had to be more dialogue options.  Something.

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The problem there is that the game doesn't establish this. The game establishes this Catalyst as an avatar for a universal truth, not a logically flawed machine. Hence why Shepard cannot question this thing's logic. Had we been able to say "Wait, WTF?" the game would've successfully shown that character as a flawed machine. And with that, the endings would've started making some kind of sense.

This is why many people are unhappy, because they had to accept this universal truth without question, establishing the Catalyst character as logically coherent. It's basically extremely bad storytelling.

TLDR: The game doesn't establish this character as a flawed machine, meaning us thinking it's a flawed machine goes against the writer's intention. 

The game does a fairly lousy job of telling me that the kid is a some kind of universal force, too.  Are you sure you aren't assuming that?  At no point did I get the impression that the Catalyst was anything more than the master control program for the Reapers.

Not that I don't get people being upsset that Shep just goes with the flow.  First time I beat the game I just kinda sat there for a minute or so thinking I had to be missing something,  There had to be more dialogue options.  Something.

All we needed was the ability to question this child's logic. This would effectively establish him as flawed. We get no chance to question his logic. When this is done in a story, it usually means a universal truth is present. Something that cannot be argued against.

I personally think the game did a very good job of establishing this thing as a universal force. He has no background or origin that we know of, he has been alive longer than anything we can comprehend, and he provides logic that cannot be argued against. That, to me, is establishing some kind of omniscient god.