779 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Kentuckan wrote...

Obviously this man is wrong and we should force our views of that particular ending on him.

Seriously why can't we just let those who have found solace with their particular ending enjoy it?

That's interesting, so you post on a public forum so that everyone can agree with you? Or do you do it so we can discuss it? 

I'm of the opinion that I came up to the Citadel to kick Reaper Arse. Pretty much the only way to do that is the Destroy option (ugh). I do not have the right to foist some Reaper synthetic genetic code on all life, nor do I trust that I can "control" the Reapers when pretty much the opposite happens. No, I do not trust Starchild. What really sucks arse is for some unexplained reason, the Destroy option takes out EDI and the Geth. And me. Sheesh.

Take heart!  Clearly the StarKid was wrong about destroy killing Shepard.  There's no reason it can't be wrong about destroy killing EDI and the geth too.

Also that's a really good video.

Modifié par General User, 15 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[Ieldra]

It didn't say Shepard would die in Destroy. "Even you are partly synthetic" just means that there will be damage. And "The Catalyst lied" can be used to justify anything. If that was an option we're supposed to seriously consider, there would've been a dialogue option to challenge it.

As I said elsewhere, you can justify the genocide of the geth by various means if you want. "Necessary sacrifice for a higher goal" may be appropriate (you notice that's Renegade reasoning, right?), but the one thing you can't do it is pretend it doesn't happen. In your private headcanon maybe, but that's of no significance for the debate.

I did *not* come to the Citadel to "kick Reaper arse", I came there to prevent the Reapers from reaping. How, that doesn't matter. If I must let them live to save more lives and/or more of galactic civilization, then so be it.

[Myrmedus]

Again, the problem with these kind of posts like the OP has is the assumption that the game need only have one ending. I'm glad the OP liked the Synthesis ending, it was the ending I chose as well, but in a game that apparently had multiple endings why is there not room to appease the vast majority of players between those endings?

If there are those who like the ambiguous endings, ok, great, but they should’ve been just one of many resolutions rather than 3 ambiguous and virtually identical endings.

There is no reason why the majority should suffer so the minority can be happy, especially when multiple endings based upon choice could appease both sets of players.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 15 mars 2012 - 11:48 .

[General User]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It didn't say Shepard would die in Destroy. "Even you are partly synthetic" just means that there will be damage. And "The Catalyst lied" can be used to justify anything. If that was an option we're supposed to seriously consider, there would've been a dialogue option to challenge it.

As I said elsewhere, you can justify the genocide of the geth by various means if you want. "Necessary sacrifice for a higher goal" may be appropriate (you notice that's Renegade reasoning, right?), but the one thing you can't do it is pretend it doesn't happen. In your private headcanon maybe, but that's of no significance for the debate.

I did *not* come to the Citadel to "kick Reaper arse", I came there to prevent the Reapers from reaping. How, that doesn't matter. If I must let them live to save more lives and/or more of galactic civilization, then so be it.

Not "lied", just wrong.

Modifié par General User, 15 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[Ieldra]

Wrong? Who are you to say that? The Catalyst has a few million years of experience more than Shepard. I would have appreciated an opportunity to ask "I just made peace between the quarian and the geth. How does that fit in your plan?" and to subsequently convince it to call the Reapers off, but as it is, the presentation suggests that the Catalyst knows more than Shepard. We're supposed to take it at face value. That we can't because of the glaring contradiction that isn't addressed is a writing failure. But the intention is clear to see.

[General User]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Wrong? Who are you to say that?

I'm the man who just spent 2 games bucking the StarKid's mold.

Ieldra2 wrote...
The Catalyst has a few million years of experience more than Shepard.

Millions of years of experience at starting and perpetuating a cruel cycle of atrocity.  Something that does that is not automatically worthy of reverence and/or deference no matter how old it may be.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I would have appreciated an opportunity to ask "I just made peace between the quarian and the geth. How does that fit in your plan?" and to subsequently convince it to call the Reapers off, but as it is, the presentation suggests that the Catalyst knows more than Shepard. We're supposed to take it at face value. That we can't because of the glaring contradiction that isn't addressed is a writing failure. But the intention is clear to see.

If you can accept the StarKid (at face value no less) then, as they say in Mexico, via con Dios.  Me?  I'm a bit more... critical myself.

Modifié par General User, 15 mars 2012 - 05:02 .

[Meltemph]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Meltemph wrote...
I dont think you realize what synthesis means. Oh BTW the KID SAYS A NEW DNA.  Just say'n.

   

19:30ish watch it if you dont believe me.

I already addressed this problem in the post you quoted, but apparently didn't read closely enough:

This "rewriting of DNA" is pure nonsense. If it has DNA, it's organic, not synthetic. The phrasing is a metaphor for Sufficiently Advanced Technology doing something we don't understand, that enables organic and synthetic life to seamlessly integrate with each other.

I don't know why they changed the phrasing from the leaked script. There it was "We synthetics will become more like you, and organic life will become like us". Perhaps they wanted things to sound more scientific. Well, if so, then it was an epic backfire.

ITT: I reject your reality and substitute my own

You litterally dodge explaining how you are re-inventing the meanings of words to suit your agenda of wanting a transhumanist theme and even try and claim "original script", which makes it even better.  

[JaceonNomad]

I find it interesting that so many people have objections to this ending because they think you have in essence "taken away the free will of all life in the galaxy". LIFE is not about free will. It is about survival of the fittest. Mother Nature doesn't give a flying **** about your free will, right to choose, personal preferences, blah-blah, etc, etc.

Mother Nature lets those most suited to their environment survive, and when the environment changes only those that can adapt to their new surroundings survive. The Mass Effect series has given many examples of this. What you have to understand is that The Universe, i.e. our Environment, is constantly changing and there is no such thing as safety. There is "mitigated risk". The purpose of all live is to EVOLVE. If a species quits evolving/adapting to suit its environment it will eventually be killed off. Whether by disease, an invasive species, or calamity.

ANY species that forgets this is doomed to failure. This is in essence what the "Reaper-Child" is trying to explain to Sheperd. The Reapers are more suited to the environment than the organics they harvest. By choosing Synthesis, Sheperd has pushed the life-forms of the galaxy (organic & synthetic) into their next evolutionary stage. Let me be clear, NO species can afford to stop evolution. That's what killed the Dinosaurs! Their environment changed dramatically around them, and they could not adapt/evolve quickly enough to survive!

Also, the synthesis ending allows for a more seamless unification of all species, since they all share a set of base characteristics now. The only problem I had with this ending was the destruction of the mass relays. In the Mass Effect universe the relays are such an integral part of their societal structure that this would cause a near-Apocalyptic state to the universe. Like hitting a mass reset button on the whole galaxy. On the other hand this would give the new species time to adapt and grow into their new settings, skills, etc.

On the whole I thought the synthesis ending was the most beautiful because Sheperd in essence sacrifices himself to save EVERYONE. Not just humanity, not just organic life, not just synthetic life, BUT ALL life. This includes the reaper's by the way, which also allows the previously harvested races to in essence continue. All in all, this was my favorite ending (although this did seem a bit like a tech-revisioning of the avatar connection concept).

Note to dev team: I would definately like to see this concept expanded a bit further!

[savionen]

JaceonNomad wrote...

I find it interesting that so many people have objections to this ending because they think you have in essence "taken away the free will of all life in the galaxy". LIFE is not about free will. It is about survival of the fittest. Mother Nature doesn't give a flying **** about your free will, right to choose, personal preferences, blah-blah, etc, etc.

Mother Nature lets those most suited to their environment survive, and when the environment changes only those that can adapt to their new surroundings survive. The Mass Effect series has given many examples of this. What you have to understand is that The Universe, i.e. our Environment, is constantly changing and there is no such thing as safety. There is "mitigated risk". The purpose of all live is to EVOLVE. If a species quits evolving/adapting to suit its environment it will eventually be killed off. Whether by disease, an invasive species, or calamity.

ANY species that forgets this is doomed to failure. This is in essence what the "Reaper-Child" is trying to explain to Sheperd. The Reapers are more suited to the environment than the organics they harvest. By choosing Synthesis, Sheperd has pushed the life-forms of the galaxy (organic & synthetic) into their next evolutionary stage. Let me be clear, NO species can afford to stop evolution. That's what killed the Dinosaurs! Their environment changed dramatically around them, and they could not adapt/evolve quickly enough to survive!

Also, the synthesis ending allows for a more seamless unification of all species, since they all share a set of base characteristics now. The only problem I had with this ending was the destruction of the mass relays. In the Mass Effect universe the relays are such an integral part of their societal structure that this would cause a near-Apocalyptic state to the universe. Like hitting a mass reset button on the whole galaxy. On the other hand this would give the new species time to adapt and grow into their new settings, skills, etc.

On the whole I thought the synthesis ending was the most beautiful because Sheperd in essence sacrifices himself to save EVERYONE. Not just humanity, not just organic life, not just synthetic life, BUT ALL life. This includes the reaper's by the way, which also allows the previously harvested races to in essence continue. All in all, this was my favorite ending (although this did seem a bit like a tech-revisioning of the avatar connection concept).

Note to dev team: I would definately like to see this concept expanded a bit further!

One of the biggest themes of Mass Effect is free-will and diversity. Half of the species I'm sure would rather die than be turned half-synthetic.

"Hey, let's make all humans the same race so there's no racism." Sounds like a good idea.


Aside from that, it doesn't even really solve the "major problem" organic-synthetics can still create pure-synthetics in the future, uh oh, AI comes to kill them, anyway.

Modifié par savionen, 18 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[JaceonNomad]

savionen wrote...

JaceonNomad wrote...

I find it interesting that so many people have objections to this ending because they think you have in essence "taken away the free will of all life in the galaxy". LIFE is not about free will. It is about survival of the fittest. Mother Nature doesn't give a flying **** about your free will, right to choose, personal preferences, blah-blah, etc, etc.

Mother Nature lets those most suited to their environment survive, and when the environment changes only those that can adapt to their new surroundings survive. The Mass Effect series has given many examples of this. What you have to understand is that The Universe, i.e. our Environment, is constantly changing and there is no such thing as safety. There is "mitigated risk". The purpose of all live is to EVOLVE. If a species quits evolving/adapting to suit its environment it will eventually be killed off. Whether by disease, an invasive species, or calamity.

ANY species that forgets this is doomed to failure. This is in essence what the "Reaper-Child" is trying to explain to Sheperd. The Reapers are more suited to the environment than the organics they harvest. By choosing Synthesis, Sheperd has pushed the life-forms of the galaxy (organic & synthetic) into their next evolutionary stage. Let me be clear, NO species can afford to stop evolution. That's what killed the Dinosaurs! Their environment changed dramatically around them, and they could not adapt/evolve quickly enough to survive!

Also, the synthesis ending allows for a more seamless unification of all species, since they all share a set of base characteristics now. The only problem I had with this ending was the destruction of the mass relays. In the Mass Effect universe the relays are such an integral part of their societal structure that this would cause a near-Apocalyptic state to the universe. Like hitting a mass reset button on the whole galaxy. On the other hand this would give the new species time to adapt and grow into their new settings, skills, etc.

On the whole I thought the synthesis ending was the most beautiful because Sheperd in essence sacrifices himself to save EVERYONE. Not just humanity, not just organic life, not just synthetic life, BUT ALL life. This includes the reaper's by the way, which also allows the previously harvested races to in essence continue. All in all, this was my favorite ending (although this did seem a bit like a tech-revisioning of the avatar connection concept).

Note to dev team: I would definately like to see this concept expanded a bit further!

One of the biggest themes of Mass Effect is free-will and diversity. Half of the species I'm sure would rather die than be turned half-synthetic.

"Hey, let's make all humans the same race so there's no racism." Sounds like a good idea.


Aside from that, it doesn't even really solve the "major problem" organic-synthetics can still create pure-synthetics in the future, uh oh, AI comes to kill them, anyway.

I get the point that free-will & diversity are important, I can even sympathize. I don't want anyone making my decisions for me anymore than the rest of you do. I'm a military man myself and I would fight to the death anyone who tried to take that from me.

The point here is unity. The reapers are not inherently evil. Yes, they do use evil means, but their "purpose & reasoning" is not made from that stand-point. An untold number of species have already been harvested by the reapers over eons & eons. If Sheperd destroys the reapers then he is destroying whatever remains of those former races.

Personally I don't understand this issue over the "synthesis races" still being able to create "purely organic or synthetic beings" that could in turn still destroy them. They could just as well create something that could actually consume planets, stars, or even galaxies whole. If you have reached a sufficient level of sentience then "creating" automatically comes onto the table. Example: even Chimpanzees (who by the way rank less on the intelligence scale than a down-syndrome person) create an utilize simple tools.

There is always a chance to create something dangerous. Unless you're willing to take away enough sentience that your being wouldn't be able to create ANYTHING, then you can't eliminate this threat at all, ever. All you can do is mitigate the risk. Its my humble opinion that Shepard has mitigated this risk as much as possible by trying to unify the organics & synthetics on the molecular level (I won't go into the "DNA-rewriting" issue because I find it kinda moot, for all we know the God-Child is just trying to use wording he thinks Shepard would understand, though on a side note Viruses utilize DNA and yet their behavior is more mechanical than organic, hence their proposed use in nano-technology).

But I think the main issue here should be the destruction of the mass relays. Shepard has played god by hitting a mass reset on transportation, economics, politics, etc... Any thoughts on those people?

Modifié par JaceonNomad, 18 mars 2012 - 10:56 .

[Lionel Ou]

Synthesis is for me by far the worst ending to chose.

In Control, you get a one-shot chance to send the reapers away. For how long and how far no one knows. I'd give them the command to fly into the Great Attractor. As long as they do not reassert their original program of course, and start the cycle again. Yes, a one-shot chance. The exact words are "You will die. You will control us, but you will
lose everything you have.". If I die I can no longer do anything, including controlling reapers.

In Destroy, you can chose to destroy all the reapers (as long as the AI didn't keep a few spares in reserve somewhere) together with all synthetics and "most of the technology you rely on". So I have to sacrifice the Geth and EDI to stop the galaxy wide genocide from happening over and over again. Sacrifice one people to stop the reapers from doing it countless times, to countless victims. Not a very hard choice.

They claim to "ascend" the people they slaughter. How does this "ascension" work? In the collector base they took thousands of people and turned them into goo. This will somehow preserve them. I guess if your idea of preserving a species is having enough DNA to replicate them if you'd ever want to it works. This is then used to produce another reaper, like some sort of pan-galactic sperm. There's nothing left of the minds and memories, everything is biomassed. I won't destroy the memories and culture of long dead societies, they are already gone. They have been gone for millions of years.

In Synthesis, you send out a magic beam of light that somehow rewrites the basic code of life in the galaxy. This then incorporates pieces of synthetics into all organic beings. Where does the blue prints for these parts come from? The catalyst, it releases the "energy" it has. Congratulations, you just got hit by a beam of reaper parts that got mashed into your body. The entire galaxy, turned into a giant reaper. Of course there's no need for them anymore, there will never be organics again in this galaxy.
"Synthesis is the final evolution of life" - No. There is no "final evolution", to say such a thing is gross misunderstanding of the meaning of evolution. To say that it's the "final evolution" would imply that nothing will ever change, nothing new will ever be introduced. A stagnant society, only good for preserving the state it is in. Preserved, like countless civilizations before, as a memorial by an AI that abhors change, an AI that looks at the galaxy and wishes to impose order over evolution. Complete absense of chaos, complete and total order. An evolutionary dead end in it's most brutal and uncompromising state. It is a mind rape of epic proportions, a complete shut down of the ability to create. Of course the reapers will disappear, they must now go to another galaxy to reproduce. If this is the final evolution of life, then nothing new will ever be made.

Modifié par Lionel Ou, 19 mars 2012 - 01:44 .

[Shrooomie]

This ending was the most beautiful. Every one still has free will to live and can choose any way they live their lives. But now they are all the same in a sence? They are all connected. Either descision you make seems like a hard descision. Controlling the reapers did not seem like a great idea to me, or else i would have been like the elusive man, Shepard would have been the next harbringer. Destorying all synthetics did not sit well with me because of all the good choices i made with Geth, They also helped their creators!.

Synthesize seemed like a perfect balance of life, a calm. I bet shepard did not have to die for that ending either. I still think he could have lived.

[Mithrawn]

I thought synthesis was the best ending as well, I just want it more fleshed out.

[Simpfan]

I agree.
And its sad to see so many people hating on someone for liking it.

[Verit]

All I can think of when seeing the synthesis ending is this:



Yeah let's "evolve" everyone, I'm sure they won't mind.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 21 mars 2012 - 01:44 .

[Zhijn]

Synthesis - to destroy diversity.

Diversity.

1. the state or quality of being different or varied
2. a point of difference
3. (Philosophy / Logic) Logic the relation that holds between two entities when and only when they are not identical; the property of being numerically distinct.

Synthesis.

1. the process of putting two or more things, concepts, elements, etc., together to form a whole.

Basicly you just gave the galaxy the middle finger saying "being different suck!".

Modifié par Zhijn, 21 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[Norrax]

IsaacShep wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

ye, but why couldn't i just toss dead Anderson in the beam?

Because he wasn't a partially synthetic like Shep was, thought it was clear.

yeah becuase some one with synthetic componets that mimic functions of body parts/ organs that were too damaged to be reconstructed , obviosuly has the "cyber genetic code" within them..i know your a troll  but....if you want to know what a true cybernetic organic hybrid race would look like i surgest you watch star trek next gen/voager, a look out for a fictional race called the borg.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Javik: "Your cycle is less advanced than ours, but you have a unique advantage. Diversity. It may be your greatest ally".
Casper the Space Ghost: "The ideal solution it to make sure your galaxy becomes more homogenized."

Yup, it was great.

[NightHawkIL]

Nothing like a good ethnic cleansing of all the races in the galaxy. Yeah...That's the 'best' ending.

Modifié par NightHawkIL, 21 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[RVallant]

Adding sytheticised DNA to organic DNA isn't limiting diversity... You're grasping at straws.

Are you telling me that a human-synthetic is exactly the same as a krogan-synthetic? Joker-synthetic is the same as Edi-organic?

No. Start using your heads people ;;

[1Nosphorus1]

Even though Deus Ex: Invisible War was a horrid game, the JC Denton ending was very similar, uniting everyone under the great AI to create a utopia where hate/war doesn't exist.

Out of the 3 endings, I thought Synthesis fit the best even though non of the endings fit at all, but destroying all AI life? A cruel genocide.

Utopia is a concept that should be lauded and heck it's what the world we live in right now needs before we waste it off in the next few hundred-thousand years. Utopia is progress and unfortunately many of you seem to think that it's some sort of bad thing to be achieved (It's been presented as bad in films such as Aeon flux/Equilibrium) but I'm sure most of you would rather World Peace rather than World Diversity.

[Norrax]

RVallant wrote...


Adding sytheticised DNA to organic DNA isn't limiting diversity... You're grasping at straws.

Are you telling me that a human-synthetic is exactly the same as a krogan-synthetic? Joker-synthetic is the same as Edi-organic?

No. Start using your heads people ;;

1. you know absoluty nothign about biology do you? machines dont have DNA at all!

2. thus  the ability to fuse none existant "syntheitic dna" with DNA is space magic! espically for a series that had a certian degree of science fact (dextro and levo ammino acidis, the mass effect it self is partially baised on scienice)

3. if the synthesis ending was possible they'd look like the borg!

[Norrax]

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

Even though Deus Ex: Invisible War was a horrid game, the JC Denton ending was very similar, uniting everyone under the great AI to create a utopia where hate/war doesn't exist.

Out of the 3 endings, I thought Synthesis fit the best even though non of the endings fit at all, but destroying all AI life? A cruel genocide.

Utopia is a concept that should be lauded and heck it's what the world we live in right now needs before we waste it off in the next few hundred-thousand years. Utopia is progress and unfortunately many of you seem to think that it's some sort of bad thing to be achieved (It's been presented as bad in films such as Aeon flux/Equilibrium) but I'm sure most of you would rather World Peace rather than World Diversity.

go read "brave new world" by aldoeus huxley

utopia is an idea unable to be achived by any one, and if it was it would be soooo boring: every one likes the same things, no divergence of oppion ect ect. utopia is dream that is unobtianble, diveristy and change is what drives evolution in both the biological and soical sense. the sysnthesis ending would cause all life to stagnate and be essentially usless if any galatic changes happend resulting in mass extinicsion becuase they wouldnt be utopia would be unable to adapt.

[Wattamelun]

 I hope you realize that the Synthesis isn't about making everything exactly the same. A synthesized salarian is probably about as similar to a synthesized human as the geth are to a Reaper. There's still going to be diversity. In the ending, Liara is still an asari, plants are still plants, etc. It's more about adding characteristics of synthetics to organics and adding characteristics of synthetics to organics. Like how in the end Joker looks like he's walking better and EDI seems like she has more emotion (or it was hinted at). So it benefits them both. It's not really about homogenizing the universe, because it's changing certain characteristics of life in general, not making all life the same. Or that's how I saw it. It's saving the galaxy from the cycle that Reaper Jr. says is inevitable. I mean, it's possible that he's just got you indoctrinated, given that he's exactly the same as the kid from Earth and that it is a lot like what Saren was saying, but I still chose it. The whole point of the end is it's not supposed to be an easy choice, though, so none of the endings are technically "correct."

[Fame-KIllz]

Leaves with circuit boards.