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[suusuuu]

Catalyst: "Synthesis is the final evolution of life"
Life exists to evolve, to progress. That is its goal and purpose. If it reaches its final form, it loses its meaning. You just robbed the entire galaxy out of meaning and purpose. 

Modifié par suusuuu, 13 mars 2012 - 09:38 .

[Karrie788]

Furluge wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Besides, they look happy in every ending. Even the LI, who usually looks like he/she's about to burst into tears at the prospect of leaving Shep forever.

Have you seen the EDI and Joker in the Synthesis ending? You're really comparing /that/ to that stunned walk out you get with the other two?

I have. Joker's eyes freak me out.
And I don't like his romance with EDI anyway.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Oh god. Turning people part synthetic against their will is anything but beautiful. It's horrid. Who knows what effect it had on them? We have NO IDEA how much it affected their individualism.

Don't even get me started about how much sense it doesn't make.

[Furluge]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I agree completely. The presentation shows that this is supposed to be a good ending. The salvation theme is clearly visible here. Why people refuse to see that is beyond my comprehension.

Because Shepard "lives" in the Destroy ending, and that apparently makes everything OK. ;p

[The Angry One]

Mr Massakka wrote...

lasertank wrote...

Take a loot what Saren said in ME1 
www.youtube.com/watch


What changed you????

Great to hear that again. Made me more convinced that it's indoctrination.
The kid ("Master of the Reapers" btw) convinced Shepard to believe him. Convinced him that the options given are the only opportunity.
Sounded exactly like Saren.

You know if it turns out that we're all wrong and there officially is no indoctrination, then watching scenes like this is just heartbreaking. To know Shepard will become Saren, become everything they fought against.

[Nu-Nu]

I don't think the synthesis ending is evil, clearly Joker still has his emotions and heart as he smiles at Edi. They haven't become complete machines like the reapers. I think the synthesis is better ending out of all the rubbish endings.

[Nefelius]

IsaacShep wrote...

lasertank wrote...

So? Any one with implants can be dumped into the beam?

Probably yes? Is there anyone with implants standing there? Shep's not THAT special. He's special in that he's the one who managed to reach the point where he can make decisions, but TIM most likely could've picked all 3 endings as well. Not sure where the problem here is. Shep already is almost God-like, people want him to be even more special?

Ok, then why can i shoot off my finger\\arm tnd toss it there?

[HKR148]

Furluge wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I agree completely. The presentation shows that this is supposed to be a good ending. The salvation theme is clearly visible here. Why people refuse to see that is beyond my comprehension.

Because Shepard "lives" in the Destroy ending, and that apparently makes everything OK. ;p

You believing that you've save someone does not necessarily mean that the person you've just saved will interpret it as you've done. Fundamental problem is that the ending makes you play 'god'. My preferable action would've been just step down from making decision and informs the army that the catalyst is a reaper controller. Let the battle play out and see whether the future will result in the organic annihilation or not.

Modifié par HKR148, 13 mars 2012 - 09:40 .

[The Angry One]

Ieldra2 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Forgetting about all the plotholes why did the Normandy ended up on the jungle planet, I'm REALLY liking the synthesis ending. it requires Shep to sacrifice himself completely (in control ending it's just the body), yet seeing EDI and Joker smile and how life got trasformed was just beautiful.

I agree completely. The presentation shows that this is supposed to be a good ending. The salvation theme is clearly visible here. Why people refuse to see that is beyond my comprehension.

Too many people have knee-jerk responses to this, associating bad things with no evidence whatsoever. That's their prerogative I guess, but it should be noted that nothing in the ending sequence actually suggests them.

Alright, YOU watch the Saren scene and tell me you don't see any similarities.
Tell me you don't hear Saren say EXACTLY what the god child is saying. The same "ultimate life form, next evolution" crap.
You have just imposed Saren's vision on every living being in the galaxy. Enjoy your indoctrination.

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mars 2012 - 09:40 .

[Karrie788]

Furluge wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I agree completely. The presentation shows that this is supposed to be a good ending. The salvation theme is clearly visible here. Why people refuse to see that is beyond my comprehension.

Because Shepard "lives" in the Destroy ending, and that apparently makes everything OK. ;p

Honestly, PLEASE enlighten me. I fail to see what the synthesis ending accomplishes, and I fail to see it as "salvation".

Please. Explain.

(And I don't think any of us cares about Shepard living or dying at this point.)

Modifié par Karrie788, 13 mars 2012 - 09:41 .

[Furluge]

I remember that bit with Saren, but I think there's a bit of a difference between Sovreign filling Saren with a bunch of implants and using Shepard as a basis for a new form of life. I mean we're talking DNA doesn't even exist in its current form after the synthesis ending.

Now I want to point out. I don't particularly like any of the endings, but yeah if I have to choose one, that's the one I go with.

Also as far as what it does... well they did say they still had no idea what the Crucible would actually do. I'm not terribly surprised that it can do something pretty much incomprehensible. (Because it is, there's just no way you can have a game set after that point because you'd spend all your time explaining, "How the %#@%! does that work?!")

Karrie788 wrote...

Honestly, PLEASE enlighten me. I fail to see what the synthesis ending accomplishes, and I fail to see it as "salvation".

Please. Explain.

(And I don't think any of us cares about Shepard living or dying at this point.)

Ok, I'm just going to run down my train of thought on this one. And note, your train of thought on this might be different, and that's ok, because again, they're all terrible endings. I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong for thinking something else.

A) Let's assume the ending is real. Because if it's really indoctrination or a dream, I don't want to get into it.. and honestly I don't think they would pull something that convoluted. (Though now that it's been suggested I don't put it past them saying, "Oh yeah we meant to do that.")

 Let's assume the Spacebaby is being honest. Why, because if it's not some weird dream, I don't see why it really needs to lie to you at point. And if it is lying, it's a terrible liar, and you think it'd do a better job in steering you toward a particular choice.

C) If choose Destory, the Spacebaby says it will destroy EDI and the Geth and won't actually solve anything. So I have to nix that off my list. I've spent my entire game treating the synthetics as life that deserves the same rights and considerations as anyone else. (I mean would you even consider this ending if it would kill say, all the Quarians and Turians because they're Dextro-amino acid based?) And if it's ultimately futile, that just makes it even worse.

D) If I choose Control Shepard's body is consumed and their will controls the reapers. Maybe I've red to much LOTR but I don't think Shepard's will, merged with the Reapers, is going to stay uncorrupted forever. Not to mention I've spent the entire game telling the Illusive Man it's a bad idea.

E) Which basically leaves me with Synthesis. Which is rather drastic, but it does, again according to the Spacebaby, solve the issue. How? **** if I know. But at the very least it changes everything, human, synthetic, Reaper. I don't have to worry about mad part-reaper shepard, or commiting genocide. As far as I can tell it eliminates their motives for attacking earth since they leave afterward.  Why does it stop people from new synthetics or organics that will destroy them later? **** if I know, I'd have actually know what exactly happens to answer that for you.

Modifié par Furluge, 13 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[Evil_medved]

Yeah, i liked green explosion, but red explosion was more fun because there were more explosions.

[Ieldra]

Saren's vision wasn't evil. He was just indoctrinated to believe the Reapers would realize it instead of enslaving him. The Reapers use people's ideals and twist them to serve their purposes - see TIM. That doesn't make the ideas themselves evil.

[didymos1120]

suusuuu wrote...

Catalyst: "Synthesis is the final evolution of life"
Life exists to evolve, to progress. That is its goal and purpose. If it reaches its final form, it loses its meaning. You just robbed the entire galaxy out of meaning and purpose. 

Also, you know, evolution doesn't work that way.  It doesn't have some end goal.

[suusuuu]

lol that saren suicide is so similar to TIM suicide in me3..............................................................

[Sc2mashimaro]

Except that being turned in to a synthetic-organic hybrid wasn't a choice they got to make for themselves. Nobody was going around (except Saren) saying, "Gosh, you know what would be nice? If we could be borgs like the Reapers." No Geth or AI was asking to have organic parts nor were any organic species asking to be implanted to become part machine. Literally everyone was trying to kill the Reapers and then the ending said, "Nah, don't kill us, we're, like, important because the god-kid says we are." I really want to believe the indoctrination theories, because the whole thing doesn't make a lick of sense otherwise and becomes a betrayal of everything the story has been and stood for up until that point.

Please, Bioware, make this right... I want to stop thinking about the ending and think about how much I loved the characters and the journey and overcoming the odds one last time. But all I can see is that horrible mind-creature, the child-god-vi-reaper-brain-thing. >.< Make it stop.

[John Locke N7]

So was the end of the LOTR movies....

but at the end of those frodo goes to a magical land of never dying with elves. It fits into that story.

Mass Effect is grounded is scientific reality, not fantasy

[The Angry One]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Saren's vision wasn't evil. He was just indoctrinated to believe the Reapers would realize it instead of enslaving him. The Reapers use people's ideals and twist them to serve their purposes - see TIM. That doesn't make the ideas themselves evil.

Except Saren's ideal WAS A REAPER IDEAL.
Saren had no such delusions about evolution before Sovereign started messing with his head. All he wanted was Turian supremacy, to put humans in their place and to be safe from the Reapers.

I'm sorry but this only maks sense as an indoctrination attempt. The templates laid out for you just happen to exactly match TIM's and Saren's? Too much of a coincidence. Synthesis leads to indoctrination.

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mars 2012 - 09:47 .

[Ieldra]

didymos1120 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

Catalyst: "Synthesis is the final evolution of life"
Life exists to evolve, to progress. That is its goal and purpose. If it reaches its final form, it loses its meaning. You just robbed the entire galaxy out of meaning and purpose. 

Also, you know, evolution doesn't work that way.  It doesn't have some end goal.

Yeah, the explanation makes no sense at all. I wonder why they changed it from the leaked script. There it was "You will become more like us, and we will become more like you." Implying a process where both kinds of life acquire desirable traits from the other. Much more vague, but you can use your imagination to make sense of it.

[TobiTobsen]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Saren's vision wasn't evil. He was just indoctrinated to believe the Reapers would realize it instead of enslaving him. The Reapers use people's ideals and twist them to serve their purposes - see TIM. That doesn't make the ideas themselves evil.

Or see Shepard, if you belive the Reaper King / god child who is in favor of the green or blue explosion

[The Angry One]

Ieldra2 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

Catalyst: "Synthesis is the final evolution of life"
Life exists to evolve, to progress. That is its goal and purpose. If it reaches its final form, it loses its meaning. You just robbed the entire galaxy out of meaning and purpose. 

Also, you know, evolution doesn't work that way.  It doesn't have some end goal.

Yeah, the explanation makes no sense at all. I wonder why they changed it from the leaked script. There it was "You will become more like us, and we will become more like you." Implying a process where both kinds of life acquire desirable traits from the other. Much more vague, but you can use your imagination to make sense of it.

Maybe because that would be another lie, the Reapers are already hybrids.

[John Locke N7]

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Saren's vision wasn't evil. He was just indoctrinated to believe the Reapers would realize it instead of enslaving him. The Reapers use people's ideals and twist them to serve their purposes - see TIM. That doesn't make the ideas themselves evil.

Except Saren's ideal WAS A REAPER IDEAL.
Saren had no such delusions about evolution before Sovereign started messing with his head. All he wanted was Turian supremacy, to put humans in their place and to be safe from the Reapers.

i think the reapers just let him think that so they could get more power out of him with less indoctrination. after saren opened the relay they would have just killed him.

Saren is whoely evil though...... read the first book =0 hes does some unspeakable things and never even get close so sovereign

[Rom22]

but isn't synthesis the whole point of the Reapers? Harvesting organics to create hybrid organic/synthetic space cthulhus?

[suusuuu]

didymos1120 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

Catalyst: "Synthesis is the final evolution of life"
Life exists to evolve, to progress. That is its goal and purpose. If it reaches its final form, it loses its meaning. You just robbed the entire galaxy out of meaning and purpose. 

Also, you know, evolution doesn't work that way.  It doesn't have some end goal.

Did you somehow miss the word "final?" I am not basing this on any actual knowledge of my own but on the information provided and common sense. If something is final it means it is finished therefore it does not change over time.