779 réponses à ce sujet

[dfstone]

I thought it was creepy. So we turn the universe into cyborgs? I don't see that as a happy ending.

[Body Massage]

Synthesis ending is just completing what the Reapers are there to do.

Destroy is the only one that makes sense, but then they had to go and tarnish it by making it kill the Geth and EDI as well.

[Tibbur]

Sir MOI wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Sir MOI wrote...

And I completly disagree.
We fighted Saren because he wanted us to become Reaper's slaves by implanting us with reaper technology. Improving organic life with technology and synthetic components IS the futur of organic life and in NO WAY it means any loss of diversity or free will. It simply means IMPROVING. Making life better.

Why? How?

Look at our own society. Look at the researshes we, humans of the 21st century, are doing about improving our human body with technology. We can make blind people see (a little bit), we can have more and more efficient artificial limbs. It is inevitable that some day, people with technology implanted will become better at every aspect than "normal" people. This WILL improve organic life.

Now your asking how? Well once again, just look at our own society and how technology and machinery had affected us. Look at everything we are now able to do. Look at how easy some things became. I don't think I need to quote you every aspect of it. Thanks to technology we will be able to even change our selfs, to improve our physical, intelectual and maybe even psycological capacities.

(English is not my native language and I'm really bad at writing essays and exposing my ideas but I hope it's understable  )

Ok how would you feel if some guy made you part machine without telling you becuase some space kid told him to? um yeah i just tried explaing the ending and still sounds crazy

Modifié par Tibbur, 22 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[BrotherlyTech]

Sir MOI wrote...

Ok. Somebody brings me a proof that Synthesis will take out free will and diversity. Or at least a good argument. I'm seriously interested!

"Everything you are will be absorbed, and then sent out. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new...DNA"

This is removing free will, I don't want to be merged with Synthetics, but Shepard is taking away my free will in that respect, making the choice for me.
Diversity, can be debated yes, because no two DNA strands are alike as far as we know.  However the free will option there is still undebateable, Shep is forcing a choice on every Organic and Synthetic creature in the universe, even those the reapers would have left alone this Cycle for the next.

[NeitherNor]

It looked pretty good, but I think it was a terrible choice. How is Shepard qualified to change all life everywhere. It's mindboggling.

That said, I went with it because 1) my Shepard doesn't want to be a Reaper God, and 2) destroying the Geth after spending a quarter of the game bringing them into the galactic community as 'living beings' seemed equally out of character.

Meh...

[D.Shepard]

BrotherlyTech wrote...

Furluge wrote...

Gowienczyk wrote...
You just changed every organic's makeup in the galaxy without their will. 

...so it IS pure evil and everything against Shepard's ideals.

I'm pretty sure EDI and the Geth, and every other form of synthetic life wouldn't will themselves to be anhilated. Also apparently you'd have the same problem on your hands soon enough given what the Spacebaby says.

*snip*
And as for control, I'm pretty sure Shepard can't stay uncorrupted by the reapers forever.

This, In my opinion, You have 3 choices,
A) Control, Forcefully changing what the reapers believe is right for them to do, changing them fundamentally, Which isn't even a guarenteed solution because we have no idea how long shep's influence will last, or if his influence is going to be constantly battled by the reapers natural programming.
Synthesis, Forcefully altering every being in the universe, changing them fundamentally. Which if the "Starchild" is right, is more or less what what the Reapers did, minus the "allowing organic life to grow and evolve." At least in the circular logic section, it will be "Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by Synthetics, so I turned everyone into a Synthetic. Now it'll only be Synthetics killing Synthetics, unless you genetically engineer an organic species."
C) Destroy, Killing off, at the very least two species of Synthetics(Reapers, and Geth,) as well as EDI. So this third option, is to destroy your friends and allies, at the cost of saving Organic life...


I get that with the Reapers its an All or Nothing War, its an "Us and them" scenario. But seriously. Each of the three options, in my opinion, forces me to remove free will from either everyone or a race and a friend. The same free will, that in ME1 and ME2,(and even again in me3 for a short bit with TIM) Shep argues for, the free will, that we have earned the Chance to try and grow, the right to Hope.
Thats just bad.

I have not completed the game yet because I experienced a bug with a secondary mission I'd like to complete ( I paused the SP waiting for a solution) so take my words with the famous pinch of salt.
However I suppose in the control ending you completely alter the Reapers behaviour.

I mean Reapers are AI so they function under certain parameters. Now Shepard forced them to accept his/her own parameters. Unless someone else will change them again they will remain unmodified.
It is a terrible blow to Reapers' arrogance: they are forced to accept Shepard's will.

Unless we introduce some new theory (like Shepard being indoctrinated; I read what some persons wrote on that) I doubt Reapers will win.

About the synthesis: I tend to value self-determination and forcing every sentient individual to experience such "evolution" seems a very forceful course of action.

 I agree with the players who said: "There is not an ending of my liking".
My favorite Sci-Fi series deserved  a glorious ending....that was what I hoped.

[JELLAQTP]

Body Massage wrote...

Synthesis ending is just completing what the Reapers are there to do.

Destroy is the only one that makes sense, but then they had to go and tarnish it by making it kill the Geth and EDI as well.

Agree. 

[Sherbet Lemon]

 How is the galaxy more homogenized with synthesis?  Humans have very little genetic variance among themselves as it is right now.  All racial and cultural identity is constructed and skin color, language are superficial distinctions at best; one that we ascribe importantance to and proves to be something that is not inherently so.  Where is it implied that by creating a hybrid of synthetic/organic lifeform rids the universe of all diversity?  Who  says a cyborg Krogan will have the same beliefs as a cyborg Salarian.  It was described (at least in the least script which is better) as a means to help synthetic life and organic life understand each other better by becoming one.

Doesn't mean that ending isn't without it's problems as are the other endings, I just don't see that line of argument at all.

Modifié par Village Idiot, 22 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[D.Shepard]

JELLAQTP wrote...

Body Massage wrote...

Synthesis ending is just completing what the Reapers are there to do.

Destroy is the only one that makes sense, but then they had to go and tarnish it by making it kill the Geth and EDI as well.

Agree. 

Indeed.... it makes sense except for  the destruction of EDi and Geth... It's like betraying your own allies...

[Xandurpein]

The theme in the game prior to the ending is that all forced mergers of organic and synthetic life are portrayed as abominations that dehumanize the victims. Look at the husks, the Reapers, Saren, TIM or Overlord.

The sad thing is that there's enough material in there to hint of a possible evolution of a kind of synthesis that's entirely voluntary that gets completely lost in the ending. The Geth agree to help the Quarians by merging with their suits to improve their immune system. You can imagine this eventually evolving to a kind of symbiotic relationship between Geth and Quarians, evolving naturally instead of being forced.

[N-Seven]

HKR148 wrote...

Does the sentient being's natural right extends to right to keep his/her body as it is down to the molecular level? Similar dillema to whether the individuals have a full right to harm his/her own body. Need to answer this fundamental ethical problem.

I just read that in a Mordin voice.

I chose synthesis on the first go through as it seemed the most noble of the options.  But yeah I can see how there may be a moral quandary about altering DNA without permission, etc. 

But honestly if I was given the choice between dying to a red death ray, or becoming a cool cyborg with glowing eyes that represents the ultimate stage of evolution,  I'll take the latter.  Bring on the synthesis baby.  . All that said, I would have preferred more options.

[BrotherlyTech]

D.Shepard wrote...
I have not completed the game yet because I experienced a bug with a secondary mission I'd like to complete ( I paused the SP waiting for a solution) so take my words with the famous pinch of salt.
However I suppose in the control ending you completely alter the Reapers behaviour.

I mean Reapers are AI so they function under certain parameters. Now Shepard forced them to accept his/her own parameters. Unless someone else will change them again they will remain unmodified.
It is a terrible blow to Reapers' arrogance: they are forced to accept Shepard's will.

Unless we introduce some new theory (like Shepard being indoctrinated; I read what some persons wrote on that) I doubt Reapers will win.

About the synthesis: I tend to value self-determination and forcing every sentient individual to experience such "evolution" seems a very forceful course of action.

 I agree with the players who said: "There is not an ending of my liking".
My favorite Sci-Fi series deserved  a glorious ending....that was what I hoped.

The problem here is what the Starchild says in relation to Control, And I am sorry you haven't finished the game(I wish I hadn't. I don't want to spoiler stuff, but lets just say to keep the dialog open, he says (Loosely translated)
"You can try to control us, TIM couldn't, but you might be able to." So it leaves it open that Shep's mind could be changed in the future, or that eventually the Reapers opinion could effectively influence him after millenia of arguing.
It doesn't say "You change the reapers for good, and we will do what you say for the rest of eternity," it simply leaves it at a "You control us....for now" kind of feeling..

Village Idiot wrote...

 How is the galaxy more homogenized
with synthesis?  Humans have very little genetic variance among
themselves as it is right now.  All racial and cultural identity is
constructed and skin color, language are superficial distinctions at
best; one that we ascribe importantance to and proves to be something
that is not inherently so.  Where is it implied that by creating a
hybrid of synthetic/organic lifeform rids the universe of all diversity?
 Who  says a cyborg Krogan will have the same beliefs as a cyborg
Salarian.  It was described (at least in the least script which is
better) as a means to help synthetic life and organic life understand
each other better by becoming one.

Doesn't mean that ending isn't without it's problems as are the other endings, I just don't see that line of argument at all.

I beg you to read my post that I have re-posted below, as I think the issue is more with removing free will, and less with the Diversity, since that is obviously clearly debatable..

BrotherlyTech wrote...

Sir MOI wrote...

Ok.
Somebody brings me a proof that Synthesis will take out free will and
diversity. Or at least a good argument. I'm seriously
interested!

"Everything you are will be absorbed, and
then sent out. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and
organic life into a new framework. A new...DNA"

This is removing
free will, I don't want to be merged with Synthetics, but Shepard is
taking away my free will in that respect, making the choice for me.
Diversity,
can be debated yes, because no two DNA strands are alike as far as we
know.  However the free will option there is still undebateable, Shep is
forcing a choice on every Organic and Synthetic creature in the
universe, even those the reapers would have left alone this Cycle for
the next.

Modifié par BrotherlyTech, 22 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

IsaacShep wrote...

Forgetting about all the plotholes why did the Normandy ended up on the jungle planet, I'm REALLY liking the synthesis ending. it requires Shep to sacrifice himself completely (in control ending it's just the body), yet seeing EDI and Joker smile and how life got trasformed was just beautiful.

I still have a problem with permanently altering the fundamental essence of every being in the galaxy for a promise of peace.

[TheAngryHeretic]

Megachaz wrote...

I thought the synthesis option was pure evil. You just essentially altered the intrinsic nature of every living being. You took away the free will of every being in the galaxy.

Wait a sec...maybe I missed something, but how does the snthesis ending change the intrinsic nature of every living being?

[Sherbet Lemon]

Xandurpein wrote...

The theme in the game prior to the ending is that all forced mergers of organic and synthetic life are portrayed as abominations that dehumanize the victims. Look at the husks, the Reapers, Saren, TIM or Overlord.  

What about Shepard?  Shepard is a cyborg.  Shepard is the ideal, the legend, THE Shepard.

The problem with the above is that most were only using the Reaper's technology as a means to change themselves.  In the Synthesis ending the Reapers are also altered to understand organics sense of individuality and mentality.  The exchange is meant to be mutually beneficial.

[Complistic]

If by "beautiful" you mean terrifying, then I agree. Taking away organics "humanity" is not what I'd call a good ending.

[Grasich]

Megachaz wrote...

I thought the synthesis option was pure evil. You just essentially altered the intrinsic nature of every living being. You took away the free will of every being in the galaxy.

This was how I saw it too... You basically just do the Reaper's jobs for them, following in the footsteps of what Saren wanted to do.

[dfstone]

I have a problem with Star Child period. Sovereign said in ME1 that the Reapers weren't created by anyone when Shepherd asks who built it. Star Kid says he built the reapers, but he also says he is the Citadel. But the Citadel was built by the Reapers as a giant Mass Relay to Dark Space. So is this like a chicken and egg thing or what?  And if the Citadel was "alive" then why the heck didn't it wake up in ME1?

Modifié par dfstone, 22 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

The Angry One wrote...

Congratulations, you've become Saren.

Husk and all.

That is why I refused to pick this decision. It's a fake, fony, and sadistic attempt to alter Shepard's resolve - forcing him to give in through the guise of "happy ending". The beef I had with this ending is Shepard makes a conscious decision for all species, not just towards the repears or friends - but the galaxy. Why must, for peace to be estabilished, two combine. We saw with the Geth and Quarians, this didn't have to be. Once Legion died for the Geth, to become the heart of that which they call a soul, the Quarians didn't have to change physically to attain this.

Modifié par Hunter_Wolf, 22 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[Sir_Alric]

Megachaz wrote...

I thought the synthesis option was pure evil. You just essentially altered the intrinsic nature of every living being. You took away the free will of every being in the galaxy.

This

[saeval912]

Xandurpein wrote...

The theme in the game prior to the ending is that all forced mergers of organic and synthetic life are portrayed as abominations that dehumanize the victims. Look at the husks, the Reapers, Saren, TIM or Overlord.

The sad thing is that there's enough material in there to hint of a possible evolution of a kind of synthesis that's entirely voluntary that gets completely lost in the ending. The Geth agree to help the Quarians by merging with their suits to improve their immune system. You can imagine this eventually evolving to a kind of symbiotic relationship between Geth and Quarians, evolving naturally instead of being forced.

If you talk to Javik, the prothean, he states that the AI in his time did something similar to how the quarian and the geth are now, before they turned against them. They then used their hosts own bodies against them to complete the attack.

Destroy is the only option. there are no other choices.

Modifié par saeval912, 22 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[Narsilsword]

As I have said many times Synthesis is like performing surgery with an explosion

[Hunter_Wolf]

dfstone wrote...

I have a problem with Star Child period. Sovereign said in ME1 that the Reapers weren't created by anyone when Shepherd asks who built it. Star Kid says he built the reapers, but he also says he is the Citadel. But the Citadel was built by the Reapers as a giant Mass Relay to Dark Space. So is this like a chicken and egg thing or what?  And if the Citadel was "alive" then why the heck didn't it wake up in ME1?

I almost had the feeling that the Citadel was actually a reaper itself, the eldest and first. That you're merely talking to it's mind which, like Vigil speaking in english, merely appeared in a form Shepard could recognize. 

For me, I got this sort of "tragic villain" feel from the Reapers. They are vessels, giant ships meant to house a crew, they struck me as at one point being pro-organics to save organics from total destruction and the Citadel was a Utopia. But this goes along with the plot of Dark Energy which they seem to have ditched.

[Ravennus]

Body Massage wrote...

Synthesis ending is just completing what the Reapers are there to do.

Destroy is the only one that makes sense, but then they had to go and tarnish it by making it kill the Geth and EDI as well.

Agreed, but add to that the destruction of the Mass Relays.

This dooms most species in the known galaxy and completely destroys any hope for a continuation of the Mass Effect franchise as we know it.

[Hunter_Wolf]

Megachaz wrote...

I thought the synthesis option was pure evil. You just essentially altered the intrinsic nature of every living being. You took away the free will of every being in the galaxy.

Same, in fact I'd argue it doesn't solve the problem at all. It further complicates it. It defeats the whole purpose of successful diversity, IE: Geth and Quarians.