779 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

Synthesis isn't anymore a solution for the chaos than destroy. The only thing you accomplish is saving the Geth, Reapers and EDI at the cost of changing the whole framework of the galaxy. You don't fix anything.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 10:10 .

[Ieldra]

HKR148 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

ticklefist wrote...
Green creates what will be a peaceful end of the cycle for all time. It is both the most virtuous and most selfless. You save everybody at the cost of your own life but you destroy the mass relays in the process.

It does not end the cycle.
The only proof we have that it ends the cycle is because the Catalyst says so, however the Catalyst is a moron.

yeap.. reapers are now without a controller, what gaurantees them from not doing "we still hate those ants down-below let's just finish them off" move.

Guarantee? None of course. Except that the ending sequence shows that the Reapers leave. But remember that they're the collective minds of Reaperized species - who have now been freed from the domination of the Catalyst.

[John Locke N7]

broken ass post lol. gona just make nother one

Modifié par John Locke N7, 13 mars 2012 - 10:12 .

[Furluge]

Ieldra2 wrote...
BioGame_INT.xml, tag #89996:

"We synthetics will become more like you, and organic life will become like us."

Ah thank you, I found that line. I've got two copies of supposed leaked scripts, coming from different stripped assets I believe. I don't have the XML tags or line numbers, but yes I could find that line. I don't look at that one becuase the organization is really way all over the place on the copy I have.

[Tony208]

Synthesis is completely disgusting.

Oh hey, you're still you but we changed your insides is all.

[ticklefist]

The Angry One wrote...

ticklefist wrote...
Green creates what will be a peaceful end of the cycle for all time. It is both the most virtuous and most selfless. You save everybody at the cost of your own life but you destroy the mass relays in the process.

It does not end the cycle.
The only proof we have that it ends the cycle is because the Catalyst says so, however the Catalyst is a moron.

I'm working on the assumption that no tom-foolery is involved. And yes, he is a moron. And he sucks. I'm just working with what's given. Face value stuff. No wild "oh look it's rebar so blah blah blah" theories.

It's pretty clear BioWare wanted this stuff open to interpretation and on that level it's working. While i see green as the most purely altruistic option, another poster mentioned that it changes everyone without their consent. Totally valid way of looking at it. Doesn't change my mind.

[Wattoes]

All I know is I almost threw my xbox out the window when I heard the kid explaining it. God damn space magic turning everything ever into half man, half machine. I would do anything to unhear that ending.

[John Locke N7]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

So was the end of the LOTR movies....

but at the end of those frodo goes to a magical land of never dying with elves. It fits into that story.

Mass Effect is grounded is scientific reality, not fantasy

Biotics, FTL travel, and Mass relays...........that's sure some real sience right there....

Maybe he didn't pick the best word when he said "reality." I'll help. He meant scientific plausibility.

Come on now anything is scientificly plausible, even unicorns. Some time in the future I'm sure they will be able to aline the right genetic markers and make one.

But that is niether here nor there, hard science is not about wild speculation. It's why I laugh everytime I hear the big bang theory.

fantasy doesnt even acount for the most basic laws of science. Biotics acount for newtons laws. Magic spells just break them completely

[The Angry One]

Well the point is nothing stops these hybrids from creating a machine with AI.
In fact, EDI is still a machine with AI. She hasn't changed at all. Maybe she has some organic stuff in her now - good for her. She's still a machine, and can likely still beat the tar out of any organic in her group.
So yeah, nothing has changed. Machines are still going to be physically and mentally superior.

[Furluge]

ticklefist wrote...

I'm working on the assumption that no tom-foolery is involved. And yes, he is a moron. And he sucks. I'm just working with what's given. Face value stuff. No wild "oh look it's rebar so blah blah blah" theories.

It's pretty clear BioWare wanted this stuff open to interpretation and on that level it's working. While i see green as the most purely altruistic option, another poster mentioned that it changes everyone without their consent. Totally valid way of looking at it. Doesn't change my mind.

That's pretty much my take on it too.

The Angry One wrote...

Well the point is nothing stops these hybrids from creating a machine with AI.
In
fact, EDI is still a machine with AI. She hasn't changed at all. Maybe
she has some organic stuff in her now - good for her. She's still a
machine, and can likely still beat the tar out of any organic in her
group.
So yeah, nothing has changed. Machines are still going to be physically and mentally superior.

Actually I'm pretty sure half the point of that ending is that... no, EDI isn't actually a machine anymore. And yes, that's going to stick everyone's craw in this because it's asking us to believe in a new framework for life that doesn't exist anywhere.

Modifié par Furluge, 13 mars 2012 - 10:16 .

[Tallestra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Tallestra wrote...
Well, most of the conflicts in our world stem from differences nationality, religion, even sex. So here perfect solution - someone turns us into a unisex same race, following same hybrid religion. Problem solved. If you want to leave in this state - fine, I don't.

That is not implied. That's something *you* add.

Also remember that Shepard's a hero. All endings make the Reapers leave, even if you choose Control you don't have the option of letting them do their job. I.e. all endings are supposed to be good. Which is the best might be debatable, but all result in more good than bad from a certain perspective. 

I'm giving an example where it's not some abstract organic-synthetic symbiosis, but something that you can clearly apply to yourself. Let's just take religion, without changing your body physically. Someone without your consent converts you into some common meta-religion. Since the overwrite is complete, you even don't remeber that once you were a christian or buddist. But does it make it ethical? To force something like this on you, even for a greater good?

[HKR148]

The real question is... goddamn it I'm hungry, what should I do? =/ Steak sounds good.. (not trying to pull the red herring)

Modifié par HKR148, 13 mars 2012 - 10:16 .

[DieHigh2012]

John Locke N7 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

So was the end of the LOTR movies....

but at the end of those frodo goes to a magical land of never dying with elves. It fits into that story.

Mass Effect is grounded is scientific reality, not fantasy

Biotics, FTL travel, and Mass relays...........that's sure some real sience right there....

Maybe he didn't pick the best word when he said "reality." I'll help. He meant scientific plausibility.

Come on now anything is scientificly plausible, even unicorns. Some time in the future I'm sure they will be able to aline the right genetic markers and make one.

But that is niether here nor there, hard science is not about wild speculation. It's why I laugh everytime I hear the big bang theory.

fantasy doesnt even acount for the most basic laws of science. Biotics acount for newtons laws. Magic spells just break them completely

Biotic do not acount for Newton's three laws. I don't think you know what Newton's law is.

I'm not trying to put you down, but please look that up and explain your possition to me.

[Furluge]

HKR148 wrote...

The real question is... goddamn it I'm hungry, what should I do? =/ Steak sounds good.. (not trying to pull the red herring)

Well if you're in the US, it's only socially acceptable if you have some eggs with it, maybe some hashbrowns.

[Ieldra]

ticklefist wrote...
It's pretty clear BioWare wanted this stuff open to interpretation and on that level it's working. While i see green as the most purely altruistic option, another poster mentioned that it changes everyone without their consent. Totally valid way of looking at it. Doesn't change my mind.

Absolutely. I go with the presentation, too, and find the Synthesis the most attractive option. It's pretty clear the results are intended to be perceived as good and it's the only choice that permanently solves the problem.

The ethical problem of changing everyone is a valid point though it doesn't change my mind. "The Catalyst is lying through its teeth" is not. It's clear we're supposed to take it at face value. Anything else is genre blindness.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[TobiTobsen]

Why exactly should I listen to the reaper kid?

He clearly states the destroy option to be the bad/evil one. The one where the Reaper get killed. The other two, where the Reapers live are the good ones in his "explanation". He is trying to fool Shep in my opinion.

If the creator of the Reapers tells me A, I will always do B, you can believe that.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 13 mars 2012 - 10:25 .

[HKR148]

Furluge wrote...

HKR148 wrote...

The real question is... goddamn it I'm hungry, what should I do? =/ Steak sounds good.. (not trying to pull the red herring)

Well if you're in the US, it's only socially acceptable if you have some eggs with it, maybe some hashbrowns.

kind of want prime-rib... damn those things are expansive though.

[John Locke N7]

The Angry One wrote...

Well the point is nothing stops these hybrids from creating a machine with AI.
In fact, EDI is still a machine with AI. She hasn't changed at all. Maybe she has some organic stuff in her now - good for her. She's still a machine, and can likely still beat the tar out of any organic in her group.
So yeah, nothing has changed. Machines are still going to be physically and mentally superior.

something i was thinking to =p

how does DNA solve anything.... and how the hell do you put DNA inside of metal?

[John Locke N7]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Biotic do not acount for Newton's three laws. I don't think you know what Newton's law is.

I'm not trying to put you down, but please look that up and explain your possition to me.

its explains exactly where that force and matter is coming from.... instead of it just coming out of nowhere. its a manipulation of darkmatter

[andnico]

Modifié par andnico, 13 mars 2012 - 08:17 .

[Furluge]

Tallestra wrote...

I'm giving an example where it's not some abstract organic-synthetic symbiosis, but something that you can clearly apply to yourself. Let's just take religion, without changing your body physically. Someone without your consent converts you into some common meta-religion. Since the overwrite is complete, you even don't remeber that once you were a christian or buddist. But does it make it ethical? To force something like this on you, even for a greater good?

Oh yes, it sucks. (Though granted, there's no evidence anyone's memory was erased.) But if my options are between that, wearing the One Ring and hoping I can control it, or exterminating the Jews, then break out the green holy space water because it's baptism time.

[HKR148]

John Locke N7 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Biotic do not acount for Newton's three laws. I don't think you know what Newton's law is.

I'm not trying to put you down, but please look that up and explain your possition to me.

its explains exactly where that force and matter is coming from.... instead of it just coming out of nowhere. its a manipulation of darkmatter

Everything goes to hell when we try to base every story element in terms of the limited scientific knowledge the humanity so far was able to gather. Let's not go there guys.

[Icinix]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Why exactly should I listen to the reaper kid?

He clearly states the destroy option to be the bad/evil one. The one were the Reaper get killed. The other two, where the Reapers live are the good ones in his "explanation". He is trying to fool Shep in my opinion.

If the creator of the Reapers tells me A, I will always do B, you can believe that.

Pretty much.

Reaper child wanted me to do anything but destroy - I went straight to destroy. Consequences be damned.

[Ieldra]

John Locke N7 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well the point is nothing stops these hybrids from creating a machine with AI.
In fact, EDI is still a machine with AI. She hasn't changed at all. Maybe she has some organic stuff in her now - good for her. She's still a machine, and can likely still beat the tar out of any organic in her group.
So yeah, nothing has changed. Machines are still going to be physically and mentally superior.

something i was thinking to =p

how does DNA solve anything.... and how the hell do you put DNA inside of metal?

Don't ask about the science. It makes no sense at all. I just substitute the original line from the leaked script I quoted above. More vague about what exactly is done, but at least you can use your imagination to let it make some sense.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 mars 2012 - 10:24 .

[DieHigh2012]

John Locke N7 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Biotic do not acount for Newton's three laws. I don't think you know what Newton's law is.

I'm not trying to put you down, but please look that up and explain your possition to me.

its explains exactly where that force and matter is coming from.... instead of it just coming out of nowhere. its a manipulation of darkmatter

Magic itself is an out side force, and it explains where it comes from be it mana or some other fantastic reason. The dark matter explination is no different...