779 réponses à ce sujet

[Furluge]

Dreadcall wrote...

strive wrote...

I bet Joker is pissed. Half synthetic and he still walks with a limp.

Ohh come on, did you really think "the final evolution of life" would cure brittle bone disease? 

Well it certainly can't fix lazy animators.
"Hey you think we should change the ending for Synthesis?"
"Nah! Just throw this circuit board alpha layer texture on everything. We got it from same place we got the Winter Sky wallpaper and the Tali photo. Man. I sure am glad no one on Deviantart knows we're buggering off with their artwork."

[jb1983]

jerms510 wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

jerms510 wrote...

not sure where everyone is pulling the "negating peoples' free will" thing from. Must be from their rectums. I'm a human; always been a human. Does the fact that I can't be anything else mean I don't have free will? What the hell are you guys smoking??

If I determine to change you without your consent, then I'm acting against your free will. 

I had no choice when I was conceived, or that I became a human; do I not have free will?

You didn't exist prior to conception, thus you didn't have free will because there was no "you." 

You exist now. If I changed you now, then I would be negating your free will. 

[Lmaoboat]

Tony208 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

jerms510 wrote...

not sure where everyone is pulling the "negating peoples' free will" thing from. Must be from their rectums. I'm a human; always been a human. Does the fact that I can't be anything else mean I don't have free will? What the hell are you guys smoking??

You now have two rectums, you don't know how it happened but it did. Do you feel like you have free will?

Yeah that's what happens to everyone in Synthesis.

If you take that stance then no one alive today has free will. We look the way we do because of evolution, and I don't remeber being "ask" by evolution reguarding any of it's improvments on me.

What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

I think you're confused. The synthesis is bad because you're chaning people without their consent, and essentially doing the same thing as rewriting the heritic Geth, except you're not doing it against bunch of omnicidal robots. But the reason it violates free will is because you can't be absolutely perfect and have free will.

[Bigdoser]

I do recall that saren supported synthesis and look how that turned out for him.

[DieHigh2012]

Tony208 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

jerms510 wrote...

not sure where everyone is pulling the "negating peoples' free will" thing from. Must be from their rectums. I'm a human; always been a human. Does the fact that I can't be anything else mean I don't have free will? What the hell are you guys smoking??

You now have two rectums, you don't know how it happened but it did. Do you feel like you have free will?

Yeah that's what happens to everyone in Synthesis.

If you take that stance then no one alive today has free will. We look the way we do because of evolution, and I don't remeber being "ask" by evolution reguarding any of it's improvments on me.

What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

No it aint, it is explained as evolution. If I was about to die for certain, and then all of a sudden I'm not dead but have afew new green parts I would be happy.

You are forgeting that no one knows the decisions Shep is faced with. He would be a hero for saving them reguardless of what he picks. People wouldn't mind as they just survived certain death.

[Ieldra]

Sonashi wrote...
Let's forget about hallucination theory for a moment.

Control ending (in my opinion the worst)- you became new catalyst. You can control Reapers and you decide when new cycle should start (if it's needed). You sacrificed your own life but Geth and EDI lives. Now whole point of stopping TIM in ME 3 is lost.

Synthesis (second)- you sacrificed own life to preserve all races. Reapers still exsists and old Catalyst still has control. So you became sort of slave. For example you don't like something Reapers can make you opposite. Your own will is illusion.

Destroy (the best) - the whole point of ME is about stopping Reapers. Once you destroy them you are safe. Of course you sacrificed all synthetic life. But this is a war you have to do that if you want win. Catalyst is gone. New start without Reaper nanny

Destroy: you commit multiple genocide. Not only the of geth and all synthetics, but also the collective minds of all the Reaperized species still resident in the Reaper bodies. Also you are exterminating the memory of millions of years of galactic history. The red color for this option is well deserved, and it doesn't help that many people choose it out of hate or a desire for vengeance. Or out of selfishness, because Shepard can survive it.

Control: You become the Catalyst and the guardian of organic life in the galaxy. What you do with that power is left to your imaginnation. For all we know, Shepard will fly the Reapers into the next black hole and then proceed to destroy himself. Or he may become a benevolent guardian who intervenes when synthetics become too powerful by destroying *them* instead of organics. The mass relays are preserved and galactic civilization will continue. A valid choice.

Synthesis: you give up everything to defuse the conflict between organics and synthetics, combining them on a higher level so that they no longer need a guardian to watch over them. The Citadel is destroyed (thus: so is the Catalyst) and the mass relays are gone, but the cycle is ended and the problem which it was created to,solve will not arise again.  Another valid choice, its only downside is that the mass relays are gone. The consequences for the species of the galaxy are necessarily vague, but it is heavily suggested by the ending sequence that we're supposed to see them as good. I can go along with that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 mars 2012 - 11:47 .

[Furluge]

Lmaoboat wrote...
I think you're confused. The synthesis is bad because you're chaning people without their consent, and essentially doing the same thing as rewriting the heritic Geth, except you're not doing it against bunch of omnicidal robots. But the reason it violates free will is because you can't be absolutely perfect and have free will.

Nobody said anyone would be perfect. Though again that's because the ending says little at all. Also, there's no reason being perfect negates free will.

[jerms510]

Tony208 wrote...


What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

if you act upon someone, you've violated their free will. I think you're making way too much of it. If it rains tomorrow, I won't be happy. I want it to be sunny. That doesn't negate my free will, it just has no consideration for it. Things happen outside of your control; its a fact of life. It doesn't negate your free will; you just f*cking deal with it. Lemons into lemonade, as it were. If you woke up tomorrow looking different, would you seriously start ranting about your free will? or would you just work around it?

[Tony208]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

jerms510 wrote...

not sure where everyone is pulling the "negating peoples' free will" thing from. Must be from their rectums. I'm a human; always been a human. Does the fact that I can't be anything else mean I don't have free will? What the hell are you guys smoking??

You now have two rectums, you don't know how it happened but it did. Do you feel like you have free will?

Yeah that's what happens to everyone in Synthesis.

If you take that stance then no one alive today has free will. We look the way we do because of evolution, and I don't remeber being "ask" by evolution reguarding any of it's improvments on me.

What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

No it aint, it is explained as evolution. If I was about to die for certain, and then all of a sudden I'm not dead but have afew new green parts I would be happy.

You are forgeting that no one knows the decisions Shep is faced with. He would be a hero for saving them reguardless of what he picks. People wouldn't mind as they just survived certain death.

Some people would die rather than change who they are.

No one knows Shepard's decisions? They're telling the story of "The Shepard"

[DarkSpiral]

Ieldra2 wrote... 

Control: You become the Catalyst and the guardian of organic life in the galaxy. What you do with that power is left to your imaginnation. For all we know, Shepard will fly the Reapers into the next black hole and then proceed to destroy himself. Or he may become a benevolent guardian who intervenes when synthetics become too powerful by destroying *them* instead of organics. The mass relays are preserved and galactic civilization will continue. A valid choice.

Why do people keep saying that.  I went and youtubed it, just to be sure, and it simply isn't true.  The Relays are destroyed in every single version of the ending.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 13 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Deepthroat]

I agree. My first choice was Destroy, which left me with a sour taste. Then I saw Synthesis and I actually thought to myself 'Huh, that wasn't so bad.' Shepard sacrificed himself for the greater good, which is the definitive symbiosis of organic and synthetic life and the creation of a new species at the highest level of evolution. The Reaper cycle is broken and we see Joker and EDI, now belonging to the same species, walk out into this new world. As far as I'm concerned, it's not gonna get better than that.

[Furluge]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote... 

Control: You become the Catalyst and the guardian of organic life in the galaxy. What you do with that power is left to your imaginnation. For all we know, Shepard will fly the Reapers into the next black hole and then proceed to destroy himself. Or he may become a benevolent guardian who intervenes when synthetics become too powerful by destroying *them* instead of organics. The mass relays are preserved and galactic civilization will continue. A valid choice.

Why do people keep saying that.  I went and youtubed it, just to be sure, and it simply isn't true.  The Relays are destroyed in every single version of the ending.

I think what they're talking about is how the Citadel isn't destroyed in that one. Which is odd.. it literally makes no sense. I guess Blueberry flavored dye doesn't need to be fired from the Citadel, it just sort of gets there via osmosis.

[nitefyre410]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote... 

Control: You become the Catalyst and the guardian of organic life in the galaxy. What you do with that power is left to your imaginnation. For all we know, Shepard will fly the Reapers into the next black hole and then proceed to destroy himself. Or he may become a benevolent guardian who intervenes when synthetics become too powerful by destroying *them* instead of organics. The mass relays are preserved and galactic civilization will continue. A valid choice.

Why do people keep saying that.  I went and youtubed it, just to be sure, and it simply isn't true.  The Relays are destroyed in every single version of the ending.

 

 He is right  in every ending the  relays  go boom... no matter what you pick. 

[Sonashi]

Furluge wrote...
Although there's nothing to suggest the Reapers can make you opposite or that free will is an illusion in the lime-flavored ending. Heck it's pretty clear the crucible is destroyed at that point, as are the means to enact the change it makes.

There's nothing to suggest they can't. Did you hear what catalyst said? "Do you think you can control us?" US!!!
That suggests he's one of them. So technically every Reaper can do that. Catalyst is just their avatar. And by the way, do you remember what one of your beloved Wall-E, i mean Legion, said about Geth using Reaper tech? They made mistake. They did shortcut to improvement. They should come to this on their own not by Reaper help. This is the same story with synthesis. Last stage of evolution shouldn't be achieved by shortcuts.  

[didymos1120]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Why do people keep saying that.  I went and youtubed it, just to be sure, and it simply isn't true.  The Relays are destroyed in every single version of the ending.

I'm guessing because the blue one is shorter and doesn't show the whole destruction sequence.  You definitely do still see stuff breaking and flying off the relay though.

[Lmaoboat]

Furluge wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...
I think you're confused. The synthesis is bad because you're chaning people without their consent, and essentially doing the same thing as rewriting the heritic Geth, except you're not doing it against bunch of omnicidal robots. But the reason it violates free will is because you can't be absolutely perfect and have free will.

Nobody said anyone would be perfect. Though again that's because the ending says little at all. Also, there's no reason being perfect negates free will.

It was supposed to make people so perfect that they could never create synthetics that surpass them. Perfection, at the bare minimum, removes all indivuality, as everyone must fit into the same narrow criteria. If Joker retained his sense of humor, surely somebody would still find it annoying, and thus find him imperfect. But how can anyone have free will if they can never do anything wrong, or learn from your mistakes. You'd essentially be a VI, only able to act as your were programed. Of course you could argue that everyone on one level or another only acts as they are "programed," but if we go down that road, we'll just end up splitting hairs on exactly what constitues free will, or whether it even exists. 

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 13 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[DieHigh2012]

Tony208 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

jerms510 wrote...

not sure where everyone is pulling the "negating peoples' free will" thing from. Must be from their rectums. I'm a human; always been a human. Does the fact that I can't be anything else mean I don't have free will? What the hell are you guys smoking??

You now have two rectums, you don't know how it happened but it did. Do you feel like you have free will?

Yeah that's what happens to everyone in Synthesis.

If you take that stance then no one alive today has free will. We look the way we do because of evolution, and I don't remeber being "ask" by evolution reguarding any of it's improvments on me.

What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

No it aint, it is explained as evolution. If I was about to die for certain, and then all of a sudden I'm not dead but have afew new green parts I would be happy.

You are forgeting that no one knows the decisions Shep is faced with. He would be a hero for saving them reguardless of what he picks. People wouldn't mind as they just survived certain death.

Some people would die rather than change who they are.

No one knows Shepard's decisions? They're telling the story of "The Shepard"

We are the ones that know the actual details. I think that the story telling at the end is to show that you are remebered as a hero far into the future. Not that the entire thing was "story time with grandad". As shep is the only one on the Citadel, how could anyone know?

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

IsaacShep wrote...

Forgetting about all the plotholes why did the Normandy ended up on the jungle planet, I'm REALLY liking the synthesis ending. it requires Shep to sacrifice himself completely (in control ending it's just the body), yet seeing EDI and Joker smile and how life got trasformed was just beautiful.

It also requires massive amounts of space magic to create new strands of robot DNA or something.  Beautiful nonsensical space magic.

[VegaMendoza]

I didn't enjoy the 'synthesis' ending in Deus Ex, and I still don't enjoy it in Mass Effect 3. Integrating organic mind and artificial cognitive input does something to cheapen the beauty of imperfection in mankind.

[hismastersvoice]

Oh great, I fought long and hard for the right of every sentient being in the galaxy to exercise it's free will, then I casually enforced a world shattering change on all those beings, because why not...

Synthesis is the ultimate failure. You essentially become a neophyte of the Reaper ideology - "You don't know what's good for you, We know better. We will not bother explaining it to you. We will make all choices for you."

[Gibb_Shepard]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sonashi wrote...
Let's forget about hallucination theory for a moment.

Control ending (in my opinion the worst)- you became new catalyst. You can control Reapers and you decide when new cycle should start (if it's needed). You sacrificed your own life but Geth and EDI lives. Now whole point of stopping TIM in ME 3 is lost.

Synthesis (second)- you sacrificed own life to preserve all races. Reapers still exsists and old Catalyst still has control. So you became sort of slave. For example you don't like something Reapers can make you opposite. Your own will is illusion.

Destroy (the best) - the whole point of ME is about stopping Reapers. Once you destroy them you are safe. Of course you sacrificed all synthetic life. But this is a war you have to do that if you want win. Catalyst is gone. New start without Reaper nanny

Synthesis: you give up everything to defuse the conflict between organics and synthetics, combining them on a higher level so that they no longer need a guardian to watch over them. The Citadel is destroyed (thus: so is the Catalyst) and the mass relays are gone, but the cycle is ended and the problem which it was created to,solve will not arise again.  Another valid choice, its only downside is that the mass relays are gone. The consequences for the species of the galaxy are necessarily vague, but it is heavily suggested by the ending sequence that we're supposed to see them as good. I can go along with that.

No. Despite the fact that THERE WAS NEVER SUCH A DIRE CONFLICT TO BEGIN WITH, making the whole motivation for this foolish AI completely flawed, the whole prospect of the creation rebelling againt their creators is still there. Eventually, these half synthetic people will create AI either by accident or to fulfill certain ends. Why would these AI not attack their creators this time? Because they have a few flashy parts? Was that ever their problem with organics in the first place? Or was it because they were the creators? Or was it because they had different thought processes to AI?

No. This ending shouldn't even stop the Reapers from returning, because one day man-synthetic made AI will SUPPOSEDLY attack their creators again, regardless of how many nuts and bolts they have.

This ending is flawed in it's very premise.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 13 mars 2012 - 12:07 .

[Bigdoser]

I went for destory because I followed legion advice at the end of me2 when I destroyed the collector base. As legion said "An interesting choice shepard commander. Your species was offered everything geth aspire to. True unity, understanding and Transcendence. You rejected it.. you even refused the possibility of using the old machines gifts to achieve it on your own species terms. You are more like us than we thought.

[Elmolee]

Compared the synthesis ending to this old vid....



Hmmmmmm.

[Furluge]

Lmaoboat wrote...
]It was supposed to make people so perfect that they could never create synthetics that surpass them. Perfection, at the bare minimum, removes all indivuality, as everyone must fit into the same narrow criteria. If Joker retained his sense of humor, surely somebody would still find it annoying, and thus find him imperfect. But how can anyone have free will if they can never do anything wrong, or learn from your mistakes. You'd essentially be a VI, only able to act as your were programed. Of course you could argue that everyone on one level or another only acts as they are "programed," but if we go down that road, we'll just end up splitting hairs on exactly what constitues free will, or whether it even exists. 

No, it wasn't supposed to make them perfect. You're just making that up. And no about the perfect thing too. You obviously have some pretty set ideas about what being perfect would entail. I'm not really going to get into them with you, but no, being perfect doesn't necesitate /any/ of those things you mentioned. And it doesn't have anything to do with this game regardless.

Modifié par Furluge, 13 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[goofyomnivore]

Destroy: you commit multiple genocide. Not only the of geth and all synthetics, but also the collective minds of all the Reaperized species still resident in the Reaper bodies. Also you are exterminating the memory of millions of years of galactic history.

Synthesis is technically the genocide of all organic and synthetic life in exchange for one new life/dna/framework. You could call it evolving I guess, but that doesn't dismiss the fact a  pre-Synthesis human, geth, asari, krogan, etc doesn't exist anymore.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:07 .