1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

The problem I have with this theory is that while its possible, it does not make much sense. why would Harbinger not just kill Shepard, how does he survive a blast that destroys ships in one hit in the first place, and how does the crucible ever get to the citadel if all it takes is one shot from any capitalreaper ship to take it out.

So while the indoctrination theory is plausible, I find it highly unlikely. The entire premise of the final battle setup is flawed. If the reapers know what the crucible can do (since they were told by TIM) there is no way it would have worked, unless the fleet would have won the battle conventionally anyway. All they need is one shot to take it out, whats to stop them from just ignoring the fleet and going for it as soon as it appears?

If you disregard this, I hope you are right because the endings as they stand make no sense if it is true. As is pointed out by numereus posts. I don't mind Shep dying, I don't even care if we had to sacrifice earth. Aslong as the ending made logical sense and Shep stays true to himself during his sarcrifice.

Bonus points for staying in this thread though, most people just bail after saying once they liked the endings

EDIT: unless ofcourse the Reapers can use the crucible for thier purpose aswell in some way or form and they want it to dock. Then you might be absolutly right. Just havent seen that reason yet.

I believe the war IS won conventionally or by the galactic fleet, Not necessarily without sheps help because the victory is the fact that you put this force together but shep doesnt actually kill the reapers per say.

basically, hes a legend because he united a galaxy not because he wrestled all the reapers to the ground himself. make sense? the details of how are lost, shep wasnt there to see them so he knows nothing about it. hes just living out his last heroic moments on earth. his (your) job is done...

This. Destroying\\stopping the reapers has been the top goal all through the series. If you pick Destroy, Shep lives. Anything else - the reapers win.

[Tiax Rules All]

Ending is indoctrination attempt. if you choose destroy, Shep is never indoctrinated. EVER, just in a hallucination during the attempt, but then he wakes...

[Nefelius]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Im sorry Nefilius, but i cant help you. You are not even the remote bit open minded enogh to be able to adjust your view of the ending. we have explained away your posts with supposrted in game facts and you are still just calling us delusional. Im done debating with you. You will never like the ending.

i dont see any reasonable explanation, exceprt  - because i say so.

Explanation is based on logic. Logic is based on facts. 
Your logic is based on imagination due to lack of facts.

Given the fact that nuclear bomb kills everything around at least 1 kilometer, will you be open minded enough to assume that it will not kill 1x1 meter piece of that kilometer?

[Lugaidster]

Nefelius wrote...

One last attempt from my side.

Since u all of a sudden decided that Habinja landed on Earth and thought " Hey! Why don't I try to indoctrinate Shepard, WHILE I'M TRYING TO DESINTEGRATE HIM TO ASH WITH THAT BIG RED LASER!"
So, following that logic of yours (that as no proof ingame beyond you imagination) i sayy Shep is not indoctrinated before that. And most importantly that crusible that they just built - there's a giant whie whale hidden in it. And giant white whales are poisonous to reapers. That's why He lands there and tries to prevent them of activating it.
See? How can't you understand that simple undeniable logic?

Seriously? What's that got to do with what we've been discussing. Your argument, for two or three posts in a row, was that how could shepard be indoctrinated if the VI said he wasn't? We (I think) cleared that out of the way. What you wrote there reads like a rant, I at least tried to make some sense, what the hell are you trying to say? On the remote chance you have a point there hidden somewhere, you're coming off much more as a troll than we are as fanatics.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

[Lugaidster]

Nefelius wrote...

Given the fact that nuclear bomb kills everything around at least 1 kilometer, will you be open minded enough to assume that it will not kill 1x1 meter piece of that kilometer?

As a matter of fact I would, given that there's evidence of hiroshima survivors being very near to the bomb (granted that they had objects between them and the bomb. And all of this makes absolutely as much sense as your arguments. Cheers.

[Gruzmog]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I believe the war IS won conventionally or by the galactic fleet, Not necessarily without sheps help because the victory is the fact that you put this force together but shep doesnt actually kill the reapers per say.

basically, hes a legend because he united a galaxy not because he wrestled all the reapers to the ground himself. make sense? the details of how are lost, shep wasnt there to see them so he knows nothing about it. hes just living out his last heroic moments on earth. his (your) job is done...

Yeah, the make sense part was refering to a situation were this indoctrination theory is not true, in that case the endings make no sense. If you are right it doesn't matter that they make no sense as they are not actually happening.

I would like you're theory to be true though

[Nefelius]

Lugaidster wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

One last attempt from my side.

Since u all of a sudden decided that Habinja landed on Earth and thought " Hey! Why don't I try to indoctrinate Shepard, WHILE I'M TRYING TO DESINTEGRATE HIM TO ASH WITH THAT BIG RED LASER!"
So, following that logic of yours (that as no proof ingame beyond you imagination) i sayy Shep is not indoctrinated before that. And most importantly that crusible that they just built - there's a giant whie whale hidden in it. And giant white whales are poisonous to reapers. That's why He lands there and tries to prevent them of activating it.
See? How can't you understand that simple undeniable logic?

Seriously? What's that got to do with what we've been discussing. Your argument, for two or three posts in a row, was that how could shepard be indoctrinated if the VI said he wasn't? We (I think) cleared that out of the way. What you wrote there reads like a rant, I at least tried to make some sense, what the hell are you trying to say? On the remote chance you have a point there hidden somewhere, you're coming off much more as a troll than we are as fanatics.

my crazy BS that i posted there is the same crazy things that u poset here. I call both crazy due to lack of FACTS. 

"Habinja attempted to indoctrinate Shepard when he landed on earth, and after the Prothean Vi confirmed he's not"
Where are the facts that prove this true?
Having no facts that support this assumption  = like saying that it was Shepard who tried indoctrinate Habinja or there is really a giant white whale.

Modifié par Nefelius, 13 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[Rawgrim]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

It does. Destroy will also destroy the relays. The citadel IS a relay. And we all know what happens if a relay is destroyed. The Destroy option is being painted as a catastrophe.

[AlexXIV]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

Well it says that the destroy option will kill all synthetics and all the implants Shepard does have. If any of them are vital it will be his death.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Nefelius wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

One last attempt from my side.

Since u all of a sudden decided that Habinja landed on Earth and thought " Hey! Why don't I try to indoctrinate Shepard, WHILE I'M TRYING TO DESINTEGRATE HIM TO ASH WITH THAT BIG RED LASER!"
So, following that logic of yours (that as no proof ingame beyond you imagination) i sayy Shep is not indoctrinated before that. And most importantly that crusible that they just built - there's a giant whie whale hidden in it. And giant white whales are poisonous to reapers. That's why He lands there and tries to prevent them of activating it.
See? How can't you understand that simple undeniable logic?

Seriously? What's that got to do with what we've been discussing. Your argument, for two or three posts in a row, was that how could shepard be indoctrinated if the VI said he wasn't? We (I think) cleared that out of the way. What you wrote there reads like a rant, I at least tried to make some sense, what the hell are you trying to say? On the remote chance you have a point there hidden somewhere, you're coming off much more as a troll than we are as fanatics.

my crazy BS that i posted there is the same crazy things that u poset here. I call both crazy due to lack of FACTS. 

"Habinja attempted to indoctrinate Shepard when he landed on earth, and after the Prothean Vi confirmed he's not"
Where are the facts that prove this true?

Agreed.  I demand facts not conjecture.

[Capeo]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Im sorry Nefilius, but i cant help you. You are not even the remote bit open minded enogh to be able to adjust your view of the ending. we have explained away your posts with supposrted in game facts and you are still just calling us delusional. Im done debating with you. You will never like the ending.

Dude, you haven't supported anything with "facts" just your wish to be correct.  You can get the exact same destroy ending whether you get the "Shep lives" cutscene or not.  They were just throwing people a bone if they got enough EMS.  The game clearly dilineates when Shep is "in his head "during the LI flashbacks and when the game is showing the player what is actually happening (i.e. the Normandy, the relays blowing up, etc.).  There would be no point in having different degrees of Destroy (i.e. just harming the Reapers as opposed to harming your fighters too as opposed to actually destroying the Earth too) if it were just a hallucination.  

[Alamar2078]

@OP / Tiax Rules All: I appreciate your post OP. I also subscribe to the hallucination / indoctrination theory as you do and I largely agree that the "perfect" ending / destroy option is really the only true victory ending in the game.

What gets me mad / disappointed / whatever about the results given to us though is that:

-- I understood that the full & real ending would be in the game itself. If Shep lives and fights off indoctrination we still don't get the satisfaction of seeing how events play out, who lives, who dies, etc.

-- I understood the game would give us all the answers. Honestly I don't feel that I have any of the answers that have true meaning to me as a player.

-- Assuming Bioware did "screenings" of the game [which I believe is 99.9% likely] they had to know the reaction that it would cause in many people but chose to persue this course anyway. If a company INTENTIONALLY inflicts emotional distress in more than just a few of it's most loyal customers I can't really see doing further business with them as based on ethical and moral grounds.

[MarauderESP]

i got it op, pay 60€ for the game then wait 3-6 months pay 10€ again and see the ending, i got it, perhaps ill get it but that will be the last 10€ that BW/€A will ever see from me

[Tiax Rules All]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

13:50 the convo... nuff said

[Gruzmog]

There is no need for the citadel or any relay to go into a supernova just because the arrival one did. Uncontrolled destruction is something entirely different then a distruction which has a way to discharge energy ( the space magic)

Then again if you guys are right the citadel is not even destroyed

Modifié par Gruzmog, 13 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[Rail Tracer]

I don't know if anyone has seen this before but I just noticed that there is a LegendSave.pcsav file in my character directory, and its modified date stamp is from the first time i completed the game (11th).

I reloaded before the Cerberus base assault and did it again with some MP games to get my EMR over the line yesterday (12th), I wanted to see the Shepard lives scene in destroy.

This Legend save game file doesn't seem to get overwritten the NewGamePlusSave.pcsav does however.

Would this save file be used in the potential real ending patch/DLC? If that is the case maybe the fact that its not getting overwritten after a reload is that suggesting that BW wants to continue with your initial choice?

Most likely I'm over thinking things WAY too much.

[Computron2000]

Bioware told me this was the end of Shepard's story.

So basically, OP is trying to say its not the end and there might be dlc or ME4. So Bioware openly lied to get me to buy this game or Bioware gave me a story with no ending

Either is a shi* excuse,

[PaulSX]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

No, he did not explicitly said that will kill Shepard, but he implied that.  if he did not mean that why mention shepard is part of synthetic.

[Rawgrim]

Gruzmog wrote...

There is no need for the citadel or any relay to go into a supernova just because the arrival one did. Uncontrolled destruction is something entirely different then a distraction which has a way to discharge energy ( the space magic)

Then again if you guys are right the citadel is not even destroyed

Nothing gets destroyed except for the reapers. The kid is lying to get Shep not to pick that option.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

13:50 the convo... nuff said

He says you are partly synthetic, implying your cybernetic implants will fail, not that it will kill you.

[Bizantura]

Wright or wrong does not really matter to me, this option gives me a far more forfilling way to look at the ending and play all my waiting gamesafes as I had planned. And therefore thanks.

[Lugaidster]

Nefelius wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

One last attempt from my side.

Since u all of a sudden decided that Habinja landed on Earth and thought " Hey! Why don't I try to indoctrinate Shepard, WHILE I'M TRYING TO DESINTEGRATE HIM TO ASH WITH THAT BIG RED LASER!"
So, following that logic of yours (that as no proof ingame beyond you imagination) i sayy Shep is not indoctrinated before that. And most importantly that crusible that they just built - there's a giant whie whale hidden in it. And giant white whales are poisonous to reapers. That's why He lands there and tries to prevent them of activating it.
See? How can't you understand that simple undeniable logic?

Seriously? What's that got to do with what we've been discussing. Your argument, for two or three posts in a row, was that how could shepard be indoctrinated if the VI said he wasn't? We (I think) cleared that out of the way. What you wrote there reads like a rant, I at least tried to make some sense, what the hell are you trying to say? On the remote chance you have a point there hidden somewhere, you're coming off much more as a troll than we are as fanatics.

my crazy BS that i posted there is the same crazy things that u poset here. I call both crazy due to lack of FACTS. 

"Habinja attempted to indoctrinate Shepard when he landed on earth, and after the Prothean Vi confirmed he's not"
Where are the facts that prove this true?
Having no facts that support this assumption  = like saying that it was Shepard who tried indoctrinate Habinja or there is really a giant white whale.

Following your logic, any interpretation of literature is flawed because unless we know what the author wanted to transmit it's basically a fallacy. This is especially troublesome for the works of dead authors. Or worse yet, the interpretation of old laws in present context (like what is done in the supreme court of the United States where the justices pass judgment based on their interpretation of the meaning of the constitution, and they don't always agree). Interpretation is a very big part of human interaction, like it or not. This is a theory that fits the context, based on our intepretation. Whether you like it or not that's another issue. Dismissing it as denial is simply retarded.

[Tiax Rules All]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP is incorrect. I see very little complaining that Shepard dies. We all know he can live. One of the problems is that in order for Shepard to live he must doom the Geth and EDI. He must also send the galaxy into a galactic dark age as the starchild tells him it will destroy much of the technology people rely on. Going as far as to specifically point out that Shepard has cybernetic implants. These will presumably fail. Good luck getting medical attention after waking up in that rubble Shepard.

Under this ending a rescue for the Normandy's crew seems impossible. Meaning Tali and Garrus starve, or shoot each other in the head to prevent such a torturous death.

This is all before we address plot holes, insane reaper motives and SPACE MAGIC.

I can prove that wihtout a doubt wrong, this one is easy.

you are lied to. the destroy option only kills reapers, like the crucible inteded, the boy lies to dissuade you.
PROOF OF THIS IS THAT ONLY DESTROY OPTION SHOWS YOU LIVING.

kid said you would die / destroy reapers anyway / realize you just survived and chose correctly

The kid does not say that Destroy will kill you.  Please replay the game.  You are providing no proof of anything.  

13:50 the convo... nuff said

He says you are partly synthetic, implying your cybernetic implants will fail, not that it will kill you.

point is kid is trying to tell you something you dont want to hear to make it unappealing. if he told you that it would kill all reapers and you would live after, would you even wait to hear the other options?

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Ending is indoctrination attempt. if you choose destroy, Shep is never indoctrinated. EVER, just in a hallucination during the attempt, but then he wakes...

We need a better term for people who buy this.  Indoctrination truthers or something.