1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Smiley556 wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...


What is amazing here is that you don't see that your entire OP is name calling.  "You guys don;'t understand the ending.  Allow me with my superior intelligence to explain it to you."

Many people dont understand the ending, and we are helping people to understand. Yup, thats exactly what we are doing and theres tons of people that have thanked us for it. If you have a problem with that, well, go be grumpy about the ending but dont take it out on the OP. This thread is about explaining the ending, not about you being butthurt about the fact that someone is implying you might be wrong about something.

The OP made the absolute statement that everyone who doesn't like the endings doesn't understand them.  He then accused me of name calling.  My response was measured and resonable.  Congradulations for bringing the term "butthurt" into the discussion.  

[v0rt3x22]

Throughout 14 pages - are the majority of you still treating the 'end' as absolute??

[Lugaidster]

The Big Palooka wrote...

No, OP, no.

Look, I totally get the dream/hallucination/indoctrination theory. I get it. I even had the same impression when I played through the ending - the fact that they used the same you-move-so-painfully-slow-it-stretches-the-sequence-to-quadruple-its-actual-length mechanic as the actual vanilla "THIS IS A DREAM SEQUENCE" sequences kind of cements the sensation.

I can wrap my head around this concept just fine, because it IS so obviously better than the implications of the ending we're given, but what I can't wrap my head around is the idea of Bioware doing something so financially risky for no apparent reason.

...Having said that, if they came out and told us oh, just kidding, real ending's better - I'd still take it. Even if I didn't believe they did it on purpose. And tbh, the fact that Bioware somehow managed to generate a need for the biggest coping mechanism I've ever seen in response to a game is pretty darn impressive, just in all the wrong ways.

My feelings exactly. Yet if we lose hope, then we're just machines. I'd rather take the crazy-and-risky-but-kinda-makes-sense option than the stupid-as-hell-no-freaking-way-anyone-thought-this-was-good-to-end-the-series idea. To be honest, they did say that some endings would lead to the reapers wining (which is what I see if I get indoctrinated). They also said they wouldn't pull a "lost" on us, so yeah, I have hope that they actually just went with the former idea as crazy-bat-****-stupid it may sound.

[Tiax Rules All]

piemanz wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

piemanz wrote...

I like this theory, but it doesn't explain why having a low EMS leaves you incapable of selecting the supposed worst option.

It has to do with Shep`s confidence and resolve. If he knows his army won`t beat the reapers at all, it would leave him more open to "giving up" and grasping at the first straw presented to him. Stuff like that.

I don't know, in many ways this theory makes sense but in others it doesn't hold water.

check my other response to this above and also...

doesnt it prove more that destroy is true ending then. if synth was only there then you would never know there was another option.

partly by gameplay mechanic (rewarding you for higher score) you get to see more endings more choice, you earned it, doesnt mean all ending are created equal though. and doesnt mean that they dont lead to indoctrination.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Nefelius wrote...

Shepard was not indoctrinated at all.

When the Reapers move the Citadel to Earth in order to save it from the Crucible, thay are in fact afraid of a giant cachalot stored inside of it!

You see Reapers are a form of a giant Squids.
As we all know giant squids are a source of food for cachalotes.
The sapient galaxy races came to conclusion that giant space squids will be perfect food source for giant space cachalote.
But there was a problem. Due to lack of time there can be only one giant space cachalote built. So everyone needed to replicate the cachalote in numbers enough to eat all the squids.
Since the Realys are massive sources of energy and the Citadel is the biggest Relay, the Crucible needed to be attached to it in order to power the replication.
By the time the attachment was done there was need of turning the switch from inside the citadel. That's why Shepard ran in.
The deity you refer to as "space wizard" was actually Shepard's reflection in the mirror, and basically he spoke to himself the entire time because the Habinja's laser that hit Shep damaged his brain.

What? The "indoctrination" fact lacking theory can exist and this not?

You have persuaded me.  I support the giant cachalote theory!

[piemanz]

Do you still get the stargazer ending and promoted to legendary status if you don't get the sythesis option?

[Gromphadelic]

so, i didn't read through the whole 13 pages, but since this is basically about the indoctrination theory just let me give you my thoughts on it and why i think it's rather unlikely, not taking into consideration the major plotholes you just can't overlook.

aussuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are final

this either means:

1. if shepard died in the endsequence (blue or green) and is actually dying while we watch his last, indoctrinated thoughts,  the ending would be even more devastating than it is already, because we actually achieved nothing. everything was in vain, shepard lost, the reapers won all the way, period. no victory at all, not even the one where the galaxy is left in ruins but with the reaperthread gone.

or

2. if shepard survived (red) and everything that happened after charging towards the beam was a hallucination...if he wakes up in the rubble and the fight isn't actually over yet, we don't have an ending at all. it would mean that the game is over but the story hasn't been told to the end. the game would just break up in the middle of the story.
it would be like ending the lord of the rings with theoden's speech just before the battle of gondor. not very satisfying either.

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off.

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh.

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

[Smiley556]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...


What is amazing here is that you don't see that your entire OP is name calling.  "You guys don;'t understand the ending.  Allow me with my superior intelligence to explain it to you."

Many people dont understand the ending, and we are helping people to understand. Yup, thats exactly what we are doing and theres tons of people that have thanked us for it. If you have a problem with that, well, go be grumpy about the ending but dont take it out on the OP. This thread is about explaining the ending, not about you being butthurt about the fact that someone is implying you might be wrong about something.

The OP made the absolute statement that everyone who doesn't like the endings doesn't understand them.  He then accused me of name calling.  My response was measured and resonable.  Congradulations for bringing the term "butthurt" into the discussion.  

Its not about liking or disliking, its about understanding what really happens. Allot of people seem to think the last events in the game are really what happens, and dont understand its an indoctrination attempt and plays in shepards head. This is what is explained. Wether or not you still like the ending is not really the point. 

You are free to debate the subject, but dont resort to namecalling just because you dislike the implication the OP makes in his post. If you have any arguments to bring to the table regarding the discussion point of this topic, feel free to present them. This discussion, however, is not about what potentially negative names you can think of to call the people you are debating with.

[El_Draque]

 Your theory sort of makes sense, if true it would mean that bioware is a bunch of ****es and their gonna make us wait AND pay extra for the final ending? thats stupid. also if Shepard was never on the citadel the choice to destroy means nothing, the reapers are still there killing your fleet...so then what? shepard actually gets up and does go on the beam?

[Ghurshog]

Gromphadelic wrote...

so, i didn't read through the whole 13 pages, but since this is basically about the indoctrination theory just let me give you my thoughts on it and why i think it's rather unlikely, not taking into consideration the major plotholes you just can't overlook.

aussuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are final

this either means:

1. if shepard died in the endsequence (blue or green) and is actually dying while we watch his last, indoctrinated thoughts,  the ending would be even more devastating than it is already, because we actually achieved nothing. everything was in vain, shepard lost, the reapers won all the way, period. no victory at all, not even the one where the galaxy is left in ruins but with the reaperthread gone.

or

2. if shepard survived (red) and everything that happened after charging towards the beam was a hallucination...if he wakes up in the rubble and the fight isn't actually over yet, we don't have an ending at all. it would mean that the game is over but the story hasn't been told to the end. the game would just break up in the middle of the story.
it would be like ending the lord of the rings with theoden's speech just before the battle of gondor. not very satisfying either.

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off.

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh.

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

I believe they took the risk and it has back fired on them for now.

[Tiax Rules All]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

The OP made the absolute statement that everyone who doesn't like the endings doesn't understand them.  He then accused me of name calling.  My response was measured and resonable.  Congradulations for bringing the term "butthurt" into the discussion.  

I absolutley did not i mean the thread title itself has (ALOT) as 3rd word, not most, not all, not every.

I never say that if you dont like it it is solely because you dont get it. The person you were talking to was right, though they did use bad terminology.

Ill make it official. I dont care what you believe. If you are happy or unhappy with your ending then so be it.

Im still getting thank you messages from people explaining that this thread has helped make them feel better. So ill keep going.

[Rawgrim]

Gromphadelic wrote...

so, i didn't read through the whole 13 pages, but since this is basically about the indoctrination theory just let me give you my thoughts on it and why i think it's rather unlikely, not taking into consideration the major plotholes you just can't overlook.

aussuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are final

this either means:

1. if shepard died in the endsequence (blue or green) and is actually dying while we watch his last, indoctrinated thoughts,  the ending would be even more devastating than it is already, because we actually achieved nothing. everything was in vain, shepard lost, the reapers won all the way, period. no victory at all, not even the one where the galaxy is left in ruins but with the reaperthread gone.

or

2. if shepard survived (red) and everything that happened after charging towards the beam was a hallucination...if he wakes up in the rubble and the fight isn't actually over yet, we don't have an ending at all. it would mean that the game is over but the story hasn't been told to the end. the game would just break up in the middle of the story.
it would be like ending the lord of the rings with theoden's speech just before the battle of gondor. not very satisfying either.

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off.

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh.

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

I am guessing everything up to the ending was a battle of strength. The last bit is will vs will.

[logan23tom78]

So the old man was telling the small kid a story that will make someone depressed and confused? And your saying that Bioware just did no ending then.... That's what you are saying , there is no ending? What?!

That small kid at the end of the game stargazers is bring told a story that will equal therapy.
I get what you are saying but the logic of why bioware would do this to their IP?

And if you are right that they plan to have dlc to continue after the breath on purpose - then they shipped a game with no ending- a dlc ending on purpose?! What!

[Smiley556]

Gromphadelic wrote...



assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off.

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh.

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

You realise this is coming from the same company that releases a game with day one paid DLC that is an integral part of the story right? How far fetched is it to think they cant do this with the ending?

[Lugaidster]

Gromphadelic wrote...

so, i didn't read through the whole 13 pages, but since this is basically about the indoctrination theory just let me give you my thoughts on it and why i think it's rather unlikely, not taking into consideration the major plotholes you just can't overlook.

aussuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are final

this either means:

1. if shepard died in the endsequence (blue or green) and is actually dying while we watch his last, indoctrinated thoughts,  the ending would be even more devastating than it is already, because we actually achieved nothing. everything was in vain, shepard lost, the reapers won all the way, period. no victory at all, not even the one where the galaxy is left in ruins but with the reaperthread gone.

or

2. if shepard survived (red) and everything that happened after charging towards the beam was a hallucination...if he wakes up in the rubble and the fight isn't actually over yet, we don't have an ending at all. it would mean that the game is over but the story hasn't been told to the end. the game would just break up in the middle of the story.
it would be like ending the lord of the rings with theoden's speech just before the battle of gondor. not very satisfying either.

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off.

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh.

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

This is merely my opinion, but I'd tend to think that the company that built one of our favorite franchises is risky rather than stupid. The mess is already here, whatever the outcome. If the endings are it, and nothing's comming, then they messed up head to toe. In the case we are right, and there's a DLC coming after the indoctrination, then they are just ballsy, and the game would be even more epic (assuming a free DLC ofcourse).

However unlikely our scenario is, it's more reasonable (for me) than the scenario where they randomly just ****edup.

[Tiax Rules All]

logan23tom78 wrote...

So the old man was telling the small kid a story that will make someone depressed and confused? And your saying that Bioware just did no ending then.... That's what you are saying , there is no ending? What?!

That small kid at the end of the game stargazers is bring told a story that will equal therapy.
I get what you are saying but the logic of why bioware would do this to their IP?

And if you are right that they plan to have dlc to continue after the breath on purpose - then they shipped a game with no ending- a dlc ending on purpose?! What!

are you really that surprised? DLC rules now. personally i think post ending extention dlc is better then day one dlc.

[v0rt3x22]

 

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off. 

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh. 

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

FINALLY!

Someone who actually gets it!

I don't see why this is so hard for you guys to believe why BioWare would be doing this.

It is why I loved the ending!

This board is driving more and more insane over people who deal with the ending as 'absolute'!

No wonder they are disappointed.

It is NOT the final ending!! The hints are all there!!

Whether the 'actual' ending will come in form of a DLC is PURE speculation as well.

What if a DLC is released (similar to Arrival) - that ties the game to a fully fledged Mass Effect 4 with Shepard??
Would all of you still b*t*h about the 'ending"??

I'm starting to really hate using that word 'ending' - as it really wasn't the 'end'.

Check twitter and interviews - the developers have left us with a lot of clues that something is in the works.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 13 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[El_Draque]

me3 was supposed to wrap up the story..not ****** off fan base with extremely vague ending that throws everyone off until bioware goes "lol yea we actually have a dlc that finishes the game if you chose the right ending...trololol" i mean..they should've called it "Mass Effect 3 Part 98%"

[thebatmanreborn]

Yes, these are my thoughts exactly. Except I don't think we're getting a DLC ending. No, they will wait until ME4/MMO and at the beginning we will choose how Shepherd's legend ended. This allows us to carry our choices and our personal Shepherd's story into the next game. No, Shepherd won't be in the next game, but his/her legend will remain. But yes, the indoctrination theory makes all kind of sense. The kid was always an illusion. Always. And he had a message for Shepherd. "You can't save me." You can't win Shepherd. Give up. The Reapers are our salvation.

[Smiley556]

Lugaidster wrote...

Gromphadelic wrote...

so, i didn't read through the whole 13 pages, but since this is basically about the indoctrination theory just let me give you my thoughts on it and why i think it's rather unlikely, not taking into consideration the major plotholes you just can't overlook.

aussuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are final

this either means:

1. if shepard died in the endsequence (blue or green) and is actually dying while we watch his last, indoctrinated thoughts,  the ending would be even more devastating than it is already, because we actually achieved nothing. everything was in vain, shepard lost, the reapers won all the way, period. no victory at all, not even the one where the galaxy is left in ruins but with the reaperthread gone.

or

2. if shepard survived (red) and everything that happened after charging towards the beam was a hallucination...if he wakes up in the rubble and the fight isn't actually over yet, we don't have an ending at all. it would mean that the game is over but the story hasn't been told to the end. the game would just break up in the middle of the story.
it would be like ending the lord of the rings with theoden's speech just before the battle of gondor. not very satisfying either.

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off.

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh.

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

This is merely my opinion, but I'd tend to think that the company that built one of our favorite franchises is risky rather than stupid. The mess is already here, whatever the outcome. If the endings are it, and nothing's comming, then they messed up head to toe. In the case we are right, and there's a DLC coming after the indoctrination, then they are just ballsy, and the game would be even more epic (assuming a free DLC ofcourse).

However unlikely our scenario is, it's more reasonable (for me) than the scenario where they randomly just ****edup.

^ This. It comes down to either Bioware ****ed up royally after such a long brilliant written story. Or Bioware made a very ballsy, risky move. I prefer to think the later.

[Lugaidster]

logan23tom78 wrote...

So the old man was telling the small kid a story that will make someone depressed and confused? And your saying that Bioware just did no ending then.... That's what you are saying , there is no ending? What?!

That small kid at the end of the game stargazers is bring told a story that will equal therapy.
I get what you are saying but the logic of why bioware would do this to their IP?

And if you are right that they plan to have dlc to continue after the breath on purpose - then they shipped a game with no ending- a dlc ending on purpose?! What!

The ending is there and up to interpretation. We're not argueing why would they do this, but rather, what did they mean. As risky as this theory may sound from a business perspective, it's reasonable to assume that they are risky rather than stupid. We'll know at some point which one, though.

[sorentoft]

Smiley556 wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...


What is amazing here is that you don't see that your entire OP is name calling.  "You guys don;'t understand the ending.  Allow me with my superior intelligence to explain it to you."

Many people dont understand the ending, and we are helping people to understand. Yup, thats exactly what we are doing and theres tons of people that have thanked us for it. If you have a problem with that, well, go be grumpy about the ending but dont take it out on the OP. This thread is about explaining the ending, not about you being butthurt about the fact that someone is implying you might be wrong about something.

The OP made the absolute statement that everyone who doesn't like the endings doesn't understand them.  He then accused me of name calling.  My response was measured and resonable.  Congradulations for bringing the term "butthurt" into the discussion.  

Its not about liking or disliking, its about understanding what really happens. Allot of people seem to think the last events in the game are really what happens, and dont understand its an indoctrination attempt and plays in shepards head. This is what is explained. Wether or not you still like the ending is not really the point. 

You are free to debate the subject, but dont resort to namecalling just because you dislike the implication the OP makes in his post. If you have any arguments to bring to the table regarding the discussion point of this topic, feel free to present them. This discussion, however, is not about what potentially negative names you can think of to call the people you are debating with.

It's theory, not fact. Until something is proven it is a theory. The indoctrination has not yet been proven thus it is a theory. All the people who think the last events are what really happens are so far correct because that is the logical assumption from what we are shown.

Therefore you cannot say that people who do not accept the indoctrination theory are incorrect, because you cannot know with certainty that you are correct.

It is also quite impossible to make a counter argument towards this theory that boggles down to anything but "this is bogus" because it is built on straws and virtually nothing, there is nothing to discuss other than "I buy that." "I don't buy it.". That people do not accept this theory does not makes them any less intelligent, it just means they can make up their own minds on something.

[El_Draque]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 

assuming shepard was indoctrinated and the endings are not final

if we assume bioware actually planned from the beginning  to shock us with the endings we have and then to bring forward a patch or dlc with the real ending that takes place after the assumed indoctrination sequence....that just sounds to risky a stunt businesswise to pull off. 

i mean look at the situation, the majority of the vocal community (and i'm ONLY referring to those players who actually bother to give feedback, not to everyone who bought the game) is not amused.

i don't think any company would take such a risk by pulling a stunt like that just to have the last laugh. 

don't get me wrong, i would actually applaude it and it would indeed be an epic conclusion to a series that has been epic until the last 5 minutes, i just think it's highly unlikely because of the risk.

FINALLY!

Someone who actually gets it!

I don't see why this is so hard for you guys to believe why BioWare would be doing this.

This board is driving more and more insane over people who deal with the ending as 'absolute'!

No wonder they are disappointed.

It is NOT the final ending!! The hints are all there!!

Whether the 'actual' ending will come in form of a DLC is PURE speculation as well.

What if a DLC is released (similar to Arrival) - that ties the game to a fully fledged Mass Effect 4 with Shepard??
Would all of you still b*t*h about the 'ending"??

I'm starting to really hate using that word 'ending' - as it really wasn't the 'end'.

Check twitter and interviews - the developers have left us with a lot of clues that something is in the works.

they should tell us then. they told us over and over that ME3 would "wrap up the series" and "end shepards story" dragging this out is stupid. i paid 80 dollars i want the full story to the end like they said

[Rawgrim]

Truth be told, they never said the story would end with ME3. They only said Shep`s story would end in ME3.

[Lugaidster]

Smiley556 wrote...

^ This. It comes down to either Bioware ****ed up royally after such a long brilliant written story. Or Bioware made a very ballsy, risky move. I prefer to think the later.

Couldn't have put it better myself .