1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Marcus Lee]

So we have to buy a DLC in order to get the real ending? Bravo!!!
I have spent 60$ to buy an incomplete game.

Modifié par Marcus Lee, 13 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[Yuoaman]

What's your interpretation of the Prothean VI not recognizing even the small amount of indoctrination that Shep was under?

[Tiax Rules All]

MedhiaNox wrote...

What I will say - is this.

I completed everything in the game - I did not achieve "perfect" status with the scene of Shepard breathing at the end.

If this means that my Shepard was indoctrinated or killed - and I have to play the game again so I can pay money to play the "Real Ending" - there is little to no chance that will happen.

1  nothing is required, if you were happy with sub-par ending, then story over

2  if you did not see the (what i think is) hugely eye opening 20 seconds at the end of "perfect" then you cant comment on anything indoctrination theory wise.. simply put. youtube it if you dont feel like replaying.

[Smiley556]

Lugaidster wrote...

BoneNinja wrote...

logan23tom78 wrote...

So the old man was telling the small kid a story that will make someone depressed and confused? And your saying that Bioware just did no ending then.... That's what you are saying , there is no ending? What?!

That small kid at the end of the game stargazers is bring told a story that will equal therapy.
I get what you are saying but the logic of why bioware would do this to their IP?

And if you are right that they plan to have dlc to continue after the breath on purpose - then they shipped a game with no ending- a dlc ending on purpose?! What!

On a slightly more humerous note, I can't help but wonder how the heck that old geezer knew about all my intimate details with my love interest...and WHY would you tell them to a child?!? Just sayin'

Jumpin' on the train here... I find it quite amusing that the old geezer knows who you had sex with, but doesn't know how you beat the reapers, or the state of the galaxy afterwards.

Id say it is implied that he does know that, and is just about to tell that story when he says 'oke, one more story'. 

[Mio]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Mio wrote...

If this is really the case and EA/Bioware really are going to release the "real" ending as DLC (free/or paid) the I can assure you that I won't get it.

I don't really care what kind of clever trick they were trying to play on us, this could set probably the worst precedent for releasing a game unfinished in the history of console DLC. I am not going to give the industry any more reason to think that they can release a game with bad or missing content and think that they can just patch it up with some DLC released an X number of months or years, and I was stupid enough to buy From the Ashes. No more.

Your loss. Ill get it, and knowing Biowares epic games so far, I will probably enjoy it. And I'm sure I'm not going to be the only one.

fact of the matter is people are buying DLC lately in unpressidented amounts. As far as the almighty dollar is concerned. DLC is pure gold, and despite any kind of initial shock and outrage, spreading the issue actully works more towards getting people aware of it and buying more then its getting them to boycott it.

Outrage over day one dlc = gamers thinking they need it to be complete
isteaad of the intended, do not but it cause its dirty.

Free marketing. I mean this thread is kinda marketing end game dlc right now...

I actually don't have a problem with DLC in theory, and I have actually been ok with most of Bioware's output on that front. I'm simply saying that if it was Bioware's intent the whole time to present us with intentionally "bad" content only to hold back the "good" content to be distributed later, then I would recommend that people boycott it so as to not give the impression to game publishers/developers that thier customers can be manipulated in such a fashion. If such DLC is released under a "we made a mistake" banner then I may consider getting it, but I will be cautious about their intentions from now on.

[Lugaidster]

Smiley556 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

BoneNinja wrote...

logan23tom78 wrote...

So the old man was telling the small kid a story that will make someone depressed and confused? And your saying that Bioware just did no ending then.... That's what you are saying , there is no ending? What?!

That small kid at the end of the game stargazers is bring told a story that will equal therapy.
I get what you are saying but the logic of why bioware would do this to their IP?

And if you are right that they plan to have dlc to continue after the breath on purpose - then they shipped a game with no ending- a dlc ending on purpose?! What!

On a slightly more humerous note, I can't help but wonder how the heck that old geezer knew about all my intimate details with my love interest...and WHY would you tell them to a child?!? Just sayin'

Jumpin' on the train here... I find it quite amusing that the old geezer knows who you had sex with, but doesn't know how you beat the reapers, or the state of the galaxy afterwards.

Id say it is implied that he does know that, and is just about to tell that story when he says 'oke, one more story'. 

So we could say that the geezer is a troll then. A big ass troll that likes to eat little grandchildren. 

[Smiley556]

Yuoaman wrote...

What's your interpretation of the Prothean VI not recognizing even the small amount of indoctrination that Shep was under?

1) shep wasnt indoctrinated at this point, it was merely attempted, so the VI might only recognise someone who is actually indoctrinated (not just slightly starting to lose his mind because of indoctrination attempts).

2) if the VI can recognise this, so what? The VI never denied the fact. If anything, the only thing that is fact from this scene is that shepard isnt indoctrinated at this point in time. If the VI can recognise the small amount of reaper influence at all, maybe it doesnt care.  Kai Leng was fully indoctrinated, and the VI responded to that, thats the only fact.

[Tiax Rules All]

Yuoaman wrote...

What's your interpretation of the Prothean VI not recognizing even the small amount of indoctrination that Shep was under?

answer seems quite obvoius to me.
it has been explained multiple times in thread.

Shepard was never indoctrinated during game. its only at the indoctrination hallucination scene at the end that you can CHOOSE to be indoctrinated or break free. if you chose destroy, shep is never indoctrinated in the game at any point. control and synthesis result in you giving into indoctrination and you spend the last 2 minutes of the game indoctrinated /dead, which you would never know untill you see the shepard lives ending, this breath in the rubble on earth is everything.

as stated before why would you have an indoctrination attempt at the end if you were already indoctrinated.

[MassiveEffects]

BoneNinja wrote...

logan23tom78 wrote...

So the old man was telling the small kid a story that will make someone depressed and confused? And your saying that Bioware just did no ending then.... That's what you are saying , there is no ending? What?!

That small kid at the end of the game stargazers is bring told a story that will equal therapy.
I get what you are saying but the logic of why bioware would do this to their IP?

And if you are right that they plan to have dlc to continue after the breath on purpose - then they shipped a game with no ending- a dlc ending on purpose?! What!

On a slightly more humerous note, I can't help but wonder how the heck that old geezer knew about all my intimate details with my love interest...and WHY would you tell them to a child?!? Just sayin'

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind too, though I was already scratching my head over why Joker, Liara and Javik
were stranded on some planet, looking so weirdly content, with an upbeat Faunts tune in the background, and about who at Bioware seriously thought that the holographic god-child idea was a good one.

Chosing to believe that these things are all in Shepard's head makes them a lot less head scratching-inducing.

Modifié par MassiveEffects, 13 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[Soundsystem]

The problem with the indoctrination theory is that you're taking things in the end as indicators of indoctrination, when they could just be plot holes.

I'm not saying they are. But to write an ending so vague and hard to understand that it's either a dream or full of plot holes.. That's just plain bad writing. If it were a dream or indoctrination it would need to be much clearer, even if the clarity only comes after you make your end choice. So if it was indoctrination after the choice is made something should happen that makes the player go, "****, Shep was indoctrinated and hallucinating the whole thing!". It also doesn't excuse it from the fact that it wrapped up nobodies stories, none of the characters we've gotten attached to over the past five years.

Not to mention that if Bioware deliberately ****ed the ending up (for whatever reason) they would be torn to pieces by the press. Which as of now is being mostly favourable.

[meiiska]

all this shows is the lack of critical thinking of this generation.. as soon as shep got hit with the beam, just freaking listen to the background noises.. i probably died 3 times on insanity just trying to get to the beam, each time i asked myself, why am i only carrying a pistol, why does it have infinite ammo, why is some smart nosed brat trying to tell me to either jump in a beam or control the reapers, WHEN THROUGH THE ENTIRE GAME MY GOAL WAS TO DESTROY?!?! harbringer was conning you, plain and simple..

[MedhiaNox]

@Tiax Rules All: Are you referring to the Stargazer?

I already said I did not achieve the "perfect" ending with Shepard breathing in the rubble.

I will not be playing the game again to achieve it... and then pay money to get an amendment to what is currently the ending.

I thought I was being clear. I was simply making a statement - not posing a query.

[Smiley556]

Mio wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Mio wrote...

If this is really the case and EA/Bioware really are going to release the "real" ending as DLC (free/or paid) the I can assure you that I won't get it.

I don't really care what kind of clever trick they were trying to play on us, this could set probably the worst precedent for releasing a game unfinished in the history of console DLC. I am not going to give the industry any more reason to think that they can release a game with bad or missing content and think that they can just patch it up with some DLC released an X number of months or years, and I was stupid enough to buy From the Ashes. No more.

Your loss. Ill get it, and knowing Biowares epic games so far, I will probably enjoy it. And I'm sure I'm not going to be the only one.

fact of the matter is people are buying DLC lately in unpressidented amounts. As far as the almighty dollar is concerned. DLC is pure gold, and despite any kind of initial shock and outrage, spreading the issue actully works more towards getting people aware of it and buying more then its getting them to boycott it.

Outrage over day one dlc = gamers thinking they need it to be complete
isteaad of the intended, do not but it cause its dirty.

Free marketing. I mean this thread is kinda marketing end game dlc right now...

I actually don't have a problem with DLC in theory, and I have actually been ok with most of Bioware's output on that front. I'm simply saying that if it was Bioware's intent the whole time to present us with intentionally "bad" content only to hold back the "good" content to be distributed later, then I would recommend that people boycott it so as to not give the impression to game publishers/developers that thier customers can be manipulated in such a fashion. If such DLC is released under a "we made a mistake" banner then I may consider getting it, but I will be cautious about their intentions from now on.

I considered that aswell. I will admit I'm not happy about it. But I will also admit that I will buy it. And as I stated numourous times, many others will too. I just dont think you will actually (atleast a substantial amount that Bioware will care about) get people to do it.

[Mr Indivisible]

+ 1 to wrong, also you shouldn't beat up your customer base by saying "ME3 the last game in Shepard's Trilogy" then releasing DLC just so you can get the real ending.

[Hjelsao]

Alot of this makes alot of sense, and I can see it as a plausible explanation.

However, If your theory is in fact correct, it will still leave you with a hollow, unsatisfying ending. Don't get me wrong, Shepard pushing the entire thing to the edge of success and having his creation, the species he has gathered to fight finish the job would be a fine ending in my eyes.

But there is nothing that suggests that this is what happens, even if he breaks the indoctrination. The fleets weren't gathered to provide a military victory, they were gathered to get the Crucible to the Citadel/Catalyst. (Seriously, who do all of Mass Effect's space-maguffins start with C? Crucible, Citadel, Catalyst, Conduit...) There is nothing that suggest that they will come through and win conventionally, The hope was to get to the Citadel, and find out how to win from there. They weren't winning the battle.

Thank you for trying, but is still tastes like ash...

[Yuoaman]

I agree with the hallucination theory in general, but still - indoctrination is a subtle thing that takes place over weeks and months, not minutes and hours. There had to have been at least a groundwork of indoctrination when Shep was knocked out by the beam.

[Smiley556]

Mr Indivisible wrote...

+ 1 to wrong, also you shouldn't beat up your customer base by saying "ME3 the last game in Shepard's Trilogy" then releasing DLC just so you can get the real ending.

As state earlier, DLC for ME3 is still ME3. Releasing the ending as DLC doesnt do anything to discredit the statement "ME3 the last game in Shepard's Trilogy" .

[malkuth74]

Yuoaman wrote...

What's your interpretation of the Prothean VI not recognizing even the small amount of indoctrination that Shep was under?

Man I can't believe im going to support this theory.. But the Prothean VI happened before the whole end battle.. Most of the Indocturnation people think after shep is hit with the laser beam durning the assualt is when it happens.  Or its an extension of The TIMs...

[BoneNinja]

meiiska wrote...

all this shows is the lack of critical thinking of this generation.. as soon as shep got hit with the beam, just freaking listen to the background noises.. i probably died 3 times on insanity just trying to get to the beam, each time i asked myself, why am i only carrying a pistol, why does it have infinite ammo, why is some smart nosed brat trying to tell me to either jump in a beam or control the reapers, WHEN THROUGH THE ENTIRE GAME MY GOAL WAS TO DESTROY?!?! harbringer was conning you, plain and simple..

I gotta admit, this made me laugh, quite a bit, because I was TOTALLY there with you. Ahhh, the things Shepherd would think about on the verge of death. I seriously neededt that pistol through the whole game. Felt like Garrus, "How do I NOT have one of those?!?" 

[LMShepard]

If that entire sequence after the beam blast was just a hallucination and Shepard is actually lying in the rubble on Earth, then the war is not over. The crucible is still inactive, the Reapers are still attacking and the Illusive Man is still alive. NOTHING HAS BEEN ACHIEVED! How is this a better ending that the ending at face value? Wars are not won in dreams. If any of the final sequences were a hallucination, it would be on the Citadel when both Shepard and Anderson are lying there, dying then Admiral Hackett calls in saying that the crucible isn't firing.

I don't have faith in Bioware that they will pull this out for the real fans. Sadly, EA has indoctrinated the Bioware staff. John Riccitello is the Star-child and has given Casey Hudson, Mike Gamble and Mac Walters options...and the only colour ending they get is GREEN.

It's sad, really.

[Tiax Rules All]

Mio wrote...

I actually don't have a problem with DLC in theory, and I have actually been ok with most of Bioware's output on that front. I'm simply saying that if it was Bioware's intent the whole time to present us with intentionally "bad" content only to hold back the "good" content to be distributed later, then I would recommend that people boycott it so as to not give the impression to game publishers/developers that thier customers can be manipulated in such a fashion. If such DLC is released under a "we made a mistake" banner then I may consider getting it, but I will be cautious about their intentions from now on.

you are assuming the ending we got are mistakes or accidents. Bioware planned this. The ending is real time playing through indctrination. the ending is meant to trick you and manipulate you just as much as its doing it in game to shepard. That is the magic. Not a mistake. It was a risk.

basically "We are going to forego the traditional dragon age style predictable slide show epilogue, for something deep and profound. Indoctrination is such a HUGE part of the series. Saren, cerberus researchers, TIM and countless others have fallen to indoctrination and nobody has spent more timearound reaper artifacts then shepard. He is a strong willed individual, which allowed him to resist it all the way up until he got nearly killed/knocked out at the end and harbinger was focusing on the climax and stopping shepard.

It was the reapers last chance to beat shepard. and if you chose anything other then destroy with >4000 EMF then you become indoctrinated and never wake from it. your mind is lost. more importanly though the PLAYER is indoctrinated. the game manipulated you into changing the theme of destroy reapers (which is present from begging game) to some kind of silly comprimise or deal with the reaper. you lose and the game laughs at you as you think you have saw a wack ending instead of the truth. Its all (in OP) setup for a live shep on eath that never was on the citadel...

[Chromie]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

What's your interpretation of the Prothean VI not recognizing even the small amount of indoctrination that Shep was under?

answer seems quite obvoius to me.
it has been explained multiple times in thread.

Shepard was never indoctrinated during game. its only at the indoctrination hallucination scene at the end that you can CHOOSE to be indoctrinated or break free. if you chose destroy, shep is never indoctrinated in the game at any point. control and synthesis result in you giving into indoctrination and you spend the last 2 minutes of the game indoctrinated /dead, which you would never know untill you see the shepard lives ending, this breath in the rubble on earth is everything.

as stated before why would you have an indoctrination attempt at the end if you were already indoctrinated.

That makes no sense.

[Smiley556]

LMShepard wrote...

If that entire sequence after the beam blast was just a hallucination and Shepard is actually lying in the rubble on Earth, then the war is not over. The crucible is still inactive, the Reapers are still attacking and the Illusive Man is still alive. NOTHING HAS BEEN ACHIEVED! How is this a better ending that the ending at face value? Wars are not won in dreams. If any of the final sequences were a hallucination, it would be on the Citadel when both Shepard and Anderson are lying there, dying then Admiral Hackett calls in saying that the crucible isn't firing.

You nailed it. We are not trying to make it happier for you, we are trying to have it all make sense. The next conclusion would that all the stuff you just summed up would be further explored upon in a patch or DLC.

[Lugaidster]

Yuoaman wrote...

I agree with the hallucination theory in general, but still - indoctrination is a subtle thing that takes place over weeks and months, not minutes and hours. There had to have been at least a groundwork of indoctrination when Shep was knocked out by the beam.

It's been argued that the process itself started after the arrival DLC. You did pass out next to the Rho thingy. The child is either a manifestation of this, or is used as a way to appeal to Shepard. Even if it's grasping at straws for some, you have to argue that Shepard didn't seem as convinced or determined in this game as he was in the others. For this we can give this clues:

-When you see the kid in the ducts, he says you can't help me <- sign of surrender

-Right after Anderson yells at him the kid disapears and you hear a growl. It is said in a novel of Mass Effect that a indoctrination attempt finish in a growl. And that growl seems very similar to what you hear when TIM is trying to indoctrinate you.

-The dream sequences present whispers and ghostly presenses. You could argue that they're trying to remind you of the fallen, yet it coincides with evidence of indoctrination. Remember the Rachnii queen talking about sour oily songs? What do those whispering shadows look like in the dreams?

The process is slow, and Shepard has not been indoctrinated, but you could argue that the game tries to set that precedent for the final mission. Whether you think it's just wishful thinking, that's another issue, but the evidence is there...

Modifié par Lugaidster, 13 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[Tiax Rules All]

Soundsystem wrote...

The problem with the indoctrination theory is that you're taking things in the end as indicators of indoctrination, when they could just be plot holes.

I'm not saying they are. But to write an ending so vague and hard to understand that it's either a dream or full of plot holes.. That's just plain bad writing. If it were a dream or indoctrination it would need to be much clearer, even if the clarity only comes after you make your end choice. So if it was indoctrination after the choice is made something should happen that makes the player go, "****, Shep was indoctrinated and hallucinating the whole thing!". It also doesn't excuse it from the fact that it wrapped up nobodies stories, none of the characters we've gotten attached to over the past five years.

Not to mention that if Bioware deliberately ****ed the ending up (for whatever reason) they would be torn to pieces by the press. Which as of now is being mostly favourable.

squad mates that were following you during the charge, did not get to normady, run away, get into relay and try to outrun a blast that they had no idea was coming. Its not overlooked plot hole, its an intentional oddity to make you realise its fake/ sheps wishfull imagination.  If anything the didnt make that point obvois enough for people to get. so some still think that Bioware just doesn't know how to write, whicj is incorrect