1594 réponses à ce sujet

[CriticalWill]

OP thank you for trying to enlighten those who did not understand the "true" ending.

I personally believe the indoctrination theory. Your post sums up perfectly the reasons why. The main point being that the "Citadel" ie Reapers say Shepard will die along with all synthetic life but he is clearly shown waking up.

Crappy ending where your decisions throughout the previous games don't matter? Yes. But honestly I enjoyed it and I can truely believe in the indoctrination ending. You can not just ignore 20 facts all pointing to it. The radio saying no-one made it, Shepard surviving in rubble at end, etc etc.

Everything just points to indoctrination... I honestly can't see how people would think otherwise. Do they need a big signpost pointing to it? Not saying it's good but it makes perfect sense.

[Rawgrim]

MedhiaNox wrote...

@Rawgrim: I'm sorry - but I feel that's absolutely horrible.

I think I would rather have the ending be real - than whether or not I was indoctrinated depending on if I got some obscure Volus artifact that raised my War Assets.

In truth - if Shepard is indoctrinated at all - it'll already be a nail in the coffin for me and no amount of DLC will likely be able to fix it.

---

My preferred amendment is as I stated - the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech - it ends up being a reality that the Illusive Man unintentionally (or better yet intentionally) made Shepard impervious to indoctrination - and this ultimately helps save the Mass Effect universe.

I hate TIM - I think he's a pitiful wretch... but I think this would give him a small infusion of depth. I think it would be ever better if you found out that TIM got indoctrinated while trying to figure out how to combat indoctrination - and Shepard was his only success. Ultimately - he would have sacrificed himself and Cerberus to resurrect Shepard and save humanity.

Well if everything that happened on the citadel happened in Shep`s head. Then Anderson and TIM are still alive.

[Tiax Rules All]

MedhiaNox wrote...

@Tiax Rules All: I disagree - I believe he is only hallucinating.

Indoctrination doesn't allow for so much free will. Why would the Reapers "need" to convince Shepard to make the choice? IF he were indoctrinated - they make the call.

I don't believe it can be both indoctrination... and not indoctrination depending on which part of the story we're at (at the ending). That would be the absolute worst form of writing (opinion).

I believe that it is possible (if any of this is to be believed) The Catalyst knew it couldn't indoctrinate Shepard from Harbinger's interactions with him. So - it decided to do it the old fashion way and simply communicate with him - and convince him to do what it wanted (which also leaves room for Shepard to defy it of course)>

strong willed individuals need more working on. Saren and TIM both went willingly. They allowed themselves to be indoctrinated. Saren was mostly fooled. made to believe that it was his onyl choice for salvation, just like you at the end of 3 , and TIM was delusional with his own self confidence. he believed he coudl control them but you cant. mergig with reapers ALWAYS equals you lose.

[bigtymers1211]

First of all, OP, Great Post, what the "ending" makes a lot of sense if you follow the classic idea behind indoctrination/psychological warfare (I talk with one of my friend who's actually work with PsyOP warfare group in US Army (and he has a master in Psychology), and he's a ME fan too, and his explanation to the ending totally blown my mind open, I will explain his "ending explanation" as such. (at least to the best of my ability.

In Psy Op warfare, one of the technique in convincing someone to your cause is a process where u twist someone's mind (either by convincing them, tortue leading to mind-break, etc) and implant what YOU want them to think and basically turn them into someone that will agree with you and defend the implanted viewpoint. Example of such is during Vietnam war, where North Vietnam Army attempted to coerce some of the Downed American Airman with claims that their bombing kill civilians, and "coercing" these airmen into thinking that their bombing do kill innocent ppl and signing confession paper that state such fact.

Now what my friend told me is that based on what happen during the ending after the Laser Beam hit Sheppard (the corrider, shooting, explanation of choices, etc) sounds like a type of PsyOp technique, basically turning the information you provide (how Sheppard describe to "Anderson" his location in the "citidal" after he got onboard) into a type of "reinforement"of your thought process that what you hear/see as truth ("Anderson" describe the same type of tunnel construct during that long walk).

Now people might argue, if that's the case, y do the reaper allow sheppard to destroy them with the destory ending? That "ending" is actually where another type of PsyOp warfare training takes hold. the frist two ending "synthesis and control" is the "good ending" if you want everything that you know stay the same (save everyone, end reaper threat, etc.) (maintain Status Quo). My buddy told me that in PsyOp, once they successfully turn someone to their course, that "indoctrinated" person will try to maintain their world view with the information they have been indoctrinated with. In Reaper's case, their main goal of indoctrination is to ensure their own survival and successful destruction of all lifeform in the galaxy by convincing the indoctrinated people that there are OTHER ways to achieve their goal of "Stopping" the reaper (the Alternative Pathway thinking) (hence TIM saying they can "control" the reaper instead of destroying them, which will ensure Reaper to be able to continue with their mission unhindered in real life). Also, indoctrinaters will try to paint a picture of dire consequences if people go against the indoctrination (example in real life, Eisenhower's South East Asia Domino Theory regarding communism), and in reaper's case, their indoctrination might be trying to tie the destory ending with world losing all AI/VI assistance, along with all mass relay, hopefully causing Sheppard to hestitate to destory everything that makes galatic civilization works (mass effect, AI/VI assistance, etc.), based on Sheppard's baseline thinking of saving the galaxy, since a galaxy without all sort of computer won't run at all, kinda dooming all the people involved. (this has KEY implication to what I am to say below)

Now what about the destroy ending? That might be a form of Sheppard Breaking the indoctrination. In (almost) all current Special Operation forces training, they must all go through "anti-torture" training, which include anti-propoganda (a type of indoctrination) training. Now my friend do say that one way to train for it is by "linking" your thought process to something that you know as the absolute truth, a thought/mindset that will not change at all cost. (Example: your conviction toward a single believe, etc.). If the soldiers are on the verge of mentally broken, they are reminded to think back to this Conviction to snap them out of whatever indoctrination and hang on slighly longer time.

In Sheppard's case, he went through the N7 torture training (he has to, probably) along with the fact that he has one unwavering Conviction: Protection of the galaxy via the destruction of the Reaper, a theme that has been in his/her mind since ME1. One of the person that follows Sheppard's mindset is Anderson, since they both have the same thinking. What my friend think of what happen during the 3 choices was that the destruction ending is not a reaper indoctrination (the first two are reaper indoctrination, due to alternative pathway thinking), but SHEPPARD's own thought triggering that indoctrination guard of destroying the Reaper, kind of a way his thought/brain is screaming at him: "THIS IS NOT RIGHT, WAKE UP!!", hence you see Anderson shooting the node and destruction of the Reaper. AND ONLY with that option will we see Sheppard wake up in the rubble, which is a tail-tail sign that he was never in the Citidal and everything that happen AFTER the beam hit him is a Hellunication/Reaper Indoctrination/Dream (all except the Destruction CHOICE, NOT THE ENDING ITSELF).

"But what about the destorying all AI/ Mass Relay stuff the catalyst has mention with destory ending?" some people may ask. Well, my friend say that might be an attempt for the Reaper to "Corrupt" the Conviction/mental life-line Sheppard have by painting dire consequence of destory choice (no mass relay, AI/VI), causing him pause and choose not to destory the reaper. What this REALLY is mentally breaking Sheppard and indoctrinate him into not continuing his effort against Reaper.

Well, I hope I don't cofuse ppl too much (running on 5 hours of sleep with a flu after a Midterm dont' help with a logical thought train like this ) But what I am saying is Bioware is trying to showcase the power of indoctrination vs conviction (reaper vs you), and you can choose either to fall by the wayside (choosing the other two ending) or follow what you have believe in the ENTIRE time (Destroying the Reaper threat) so the OP saying This is NOT the true ending makes a lot of sense. Also, there are multiple clues as to the fact that this is not the true ending, one of wich is based on Stargazer ending, since the old dude (Buzz Aldrin) say "one more story about Sheppard", that says a lot as to an unfinish chapter in Sheppard's story, beside the fact he's a legend for organizing the fleet to defeat the reaper (I said ORGANIZE, NOT actually defeating the reapers, since the battle in London is probably not over when we saw Sheppard draw a breath in the rubble.).

But all we can do now is wait and let Bioware explain the ending (which I think might happen during PAX East in April). Lastly there might be ending DLC that explain the TRUE ending (whatever that is, who knows?) that might be BASED on the ending you choose in this 3 choice sequence (that is the message of what bioware has always done with ME, Choices have consequences)

Note: I am not saying Bioware is right/wrong with this "ending" protrayal, I am simple analysising the ending based on psychology/psychological warfare ideas, if they got a good CONCLUSION to the ending (since I don't think the ME3 has ended yet), then Bioware has probably pull the biggest exercise in Videogame story telling history. If not, then they just failed miserably.

[blacqout]

To those that don't buy into the indoctination/hallucination theory, how is the Catalyst's resemblance to the child that haunts Shepard's dreams explained? ....

[Rawgrim]

CriticalWill wrote...

OP thank you for trying to enlighten those who did not understand the "true" ending.

I personally believe the indoctrination theory. Your post sums up perfectly the reasons why. The main point being that the "Citadel" ie Reapers say Shepard will die along with all synthetic life but he is clearly shown waking up.

Crappy ending where your decisions throughout the previous games don't matter? Yes. But honestly I enjoyed it and I can truely believe in the indoctrination ending. You can not just ignore 20 facts all pointing to it. The radio saying no-one made it, Shepard surviving in rubble at end, etc etc.

Everything just points to indoctrination... I honestly can't see how people would think otherwise. Do they need a big signpost pointing to it? Not saying it's good but it makes perfect sense.

This

[pro5]

CriticalWill wrote...
Everything just points to indoctrination... I honestly can't see how people would think otherwise. Do they need a big signpost pointing to it? Not saying it's good but it makes perfect sense.

What we need to believe it is Bioware's response that confirms it or at least supports this theory.

As it stands, all we have is Bioware producer retweeting posts about articles defending current ending "as is".

[Benfo93]

 silly people... the ending hasn't happened you'll get your clouser eventually. How can they do a ending like some people are saying if shepard hasn't even made it through the citidel yet. and once he's there nobody but bioware knows the ending their will be. Maybe they'll implement this as Mass Effect 4 who knows!

[Radioflyer3]

IDK if this helps your theory, or if it was just for me that it happened, because nobody else seems to have noticed or mentioned it yet so here it is.

As Shep. is waking up, immediately after being hit by the laser, and when you first hear the radio chatter on everyone being cooked on the way to the beam there are a couple of blue lines in the top left of his vision. They are the same color blue as seen on the husks and other reapers. you can only see them for a brief time (while seeing things from Shepard's view)

Let me know what you think

[MassiveEffects]

bigtymers1211 wrote...

First of all, OP, Great Post, what the "ending" makes a lot of sense if you follow the classic idea behind indoctrination/psychological warfare (I talk with one of my friend who's actually work with PsyOP warfare group in US Army (and he has a master in Psychology), and he's a ME fan too, and his explanation to the ending totally blown my mind open, I will explain his "ending explanation" as such. (at least to the best of my ability.

In Psy Op warfare, one of the technique in convincing someone to your cause is a process where u twist someone's mind (either by convincing them, tortue leading to mind-break, etc) and implant what YOU want them to think and basically turn them into someone that will agree with you and defend the implanted viewpoint. Example of such is during Vietnam war, where North Vietnam Army attempted to coerce some of the Downed American Airman with claims that their bombing kill civilians, and "coercing" these airmen into thinking that their bombing do kill innocent ppl and signing confession paper that state such fact.

Now what my friend told me is that based on what happen during the ending after the Laser Beam hit Sheppard (the corrider, shooting, explanation of choices, etc) sounds like a type of PsyOp technique, basically turning the information you provide (how Sheppard describe to "Anderson" his location in the "citidal" after he got onboard) into a type of "reinforement"of your thought process that what you hear/see as truth ("Anderson" describe the same type of tunnel construct during that long walk).

Now people might argue, if that's the case, y do the reaper allow sheppard to destroy them with the destory ending? That "ending" is actually where another type of PsyOp warfare training takes hold. the frist two ending "synthesis and control" is the "good ending" if you want everything that you know stay the same (save everyone, end reaper threat, etc.) (maintain Status Quo). My buddy told me that in PsyOp, once they successfully turn someone to their course, that "indoctrinated" person will try to maintain their world view with the information they have been indoctrinated with. In Reaper's case, their main goal of indoctrination is to ensure their own survival and successful destruction of all lifeform in the galaxy by convincing the indoctrinated people that there are OTHER ways to achieve their goal of "Stopping" the reaper (the Alternative Pathway thinking) (hence TIM saying they can "control" the reaper instead of destroying them, which will ensure Reaper to be able to continue with their mission unhindered in real life). Also, indoctrinaters will try to paint a picture of dire consequences if people go against the indoctrination (example in real life, Eisenhower's South East Asia Domino Theory regarding communism), and in reaper's case, their indoctrination might be trying to tie the destory ending with world losing all AI/VI assistance, along with all mass relay, hopefully causing Sheppard to hestitate to destory everything that makes galatic civilization works (mass effect, AI/VI assistance, etc.), based on Sheppard's baseline thinking of saving the galaxy, since a galaxy without all sort of computer won't run at all, kinda dooming all the people involved. (this has KEY implication to what I am to say below)

Now what about the destroy ending? That might be a form of Sheppard Breaking the indoctrination. In (almost) all current Special Operation forces training, they must all go through "anti-torture" training, which include anti-propoganda (a type of indoctrination) training. Now my friend do say that one way to train for it is by "linking" your thought process to something that you know as the absolute truth, a thought/mindset that will not change at all cost. (Example: your conviction toward a single believe, etc.). If the soldiers are on the verge of mentally broken, they are reminded to think back to this Conviction to snap them out of whatever indoctrination and hang on slighly longer time.

In Sheppard's case, he went through the N7 torture training (he has to, probably) along with the fact that he has one unwavering Conviction: Protection of the galaxy via the destruction of the Reaper, a theme that has been in his/her mind since ME1. One of the person that follows Sheppard's mindset is Anderson, since they both have the same thinking. What my friend think of what happen during the 3 choices was that the destruction ending is not a reaper indoctrination (the first two are reaper indoctrination, due to alternative pathway thinking), but SHEPPARD's own thought triggering that indoctrination guard of destroying the Reaper, kind of a way his thought/brain is screaming at him: "THIS IS NOT RIGHT, WAKE UP!!", hence you see Anderson shooting the node and destruction of the Reaper. AND ONLY with that option will we see Sheppard wake up in the rubble, which is a tail-tail sign that he was never in the Citidal and everything that happen AFTER the beam hit him is a Hellunication/Reaper Indoctrination/Dream (all except the Destruction CHOICE, NOT THE ENDING ITSELF).

"But what about the destorying all AI/ Mass Relay stuff the catalyst has mention with destory ending?" some people may ask. Well, my friend say that might be an attempt for the Reaper to "Corrupt" the Conviction/mental life-line Sheppard have by painting dire consequence of destory choice (no mass relay, AI/VI), causing him pause and choose not to destory the reaper. What this REALLY is mentally breaking Sheppard and indoctrinate him into not continuing his effort against Reaper.

Well, I hope I don't cofuse ppl too much (running on 5 hours of sleep with a flu after a Midterm dont' help with a logical thought train like this ) But what I am saying is Bioware is trying to showcase the power of indoctrination vs conviction (reaper vs you), and you can choose either to fall by the wayside (choosing the other two ending) or follow what you have believe in the ENTIRE time (Destroying the Reaper threat) so the OP saying This is NOT the true ending makes a lot of sense. Also, there are multiple clues as to the fact that this is not the true ending, one of wich is based on Stargazer ending, since the old dude (Buzz Aldrin) say "one more story about Sheppard", that says a lot as to an unfinish chapter in Sheppard's story, beside the fact he's a legend for organizing the fleet to defeat the reaper (I said ORGANIZE, NOT actually defeating the reapers, since the battle in London is probably not over when we saw Sheppard draw a breath in the rubble.).

But all we can do now is wait and let Bioware explain the ending (which I think might happen during PAX East in April). Lastly there might be ending DLC that explain the TRUE ending (whatever that is, who knows?) that might be BASED on the ending you choose in this 3 choice sequence (that is the message of what bioware has always done with ME, Choices have consequences)

Note: I am not saying Bioware is right/wrong with this "ending" protrayal, I am simple analysising the ending based on psychology/psychological warfare ideas, if they got a good CONCLUSION to the ending (since I don't think the ME3 has ended yet), then Bioware has probably pull the biggest exercise in Videogame story telling history. If not, then they just failed miserably.

Interesting post, thanks for writing it.

Modifié par MassiveEffects, 13 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[Blood Wraith5]

I would like an ending were Sheperd lives,celbrates victory with the people that have helped you along the triolgy,and maybe use text style epilogue to tell how the overall galaxy turned out (did the krogans re-rebel? lol)
An epic ending that actually does Mass Effect justice
What we have right now in my opnion is Bioware trying make an "easy" ending that was easier to make(they didn't really have to consider player's choices), and if the next Mass Effect games takes place after ME3 they'll have a lot less trouble mapping the story out by pushing our choices to the side.

[Tiax Rules All]

Rawgrim wrote...

MedhiaNox wrote...

@Rawgrim: I'm sorry - but I feel that's absolutely horrible.

I think I would rather have the ending be real - than whether or not I was indoctrinated depending on if I got some obscure Volus artifact that raised my War Assets.

In truth - if Shepard is indoctrinated at all - it'll already be a nail in the coffin for me and no amount of DLC will likely be able to fix it.

---

My preferred amendment is as I stated - the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech - it ends up being a reality that the Illusive Man unintentionally (or better yet intentionally) made Shepard impervious to indoctrination - and this ultimately helps save the Mass Effect universe.

I hate TIM - I think he's a pitiful wretch... but I think this would give him a small infusion of depth. I think it would be ever better if you found out that TIM got indoctrinated while trying to figure out how to combat indoctrination - and Shepard was his only success. Ultimately - he would have sacrificed himself and Cerberus to resurrect Shepard and save humanity.

Well if everything that happened on the citadel happened in Shep`s head. Then Anderson and TIM are still alive.

yes, yes they are.. is it starting to sink in now?

Does it make sense that Anderson was on the front line charging down the reapers at the end and he made it to the beacon first, without anybody seeing him? 

NO, Shepard IMAGINES him there. He is a part of sheps subconscience that helps keep you on the right path of destroying the reapers. HE IS THE SANE SIDE of Sheps mind projected. TIM is delusion of control projected and synththesis is just... well reapers win.  

[MedhiaNox]

@Rawgrim: Anderson and TIM would still be alive in the "Indoctrination causes hallucination" theory too.

We see everyone get stopped from entering the beam - even Anderson.

And why would TIM be there anyway? It's a horrible form of writing to simply say that one of your "NPCs" can outshine the main protagonist whenever he feels like it - and it's a cardinal sin in real roleplaying.

I do not support the idea that TIM got onto the Citadel when nobody else could - not even the main protagonist.

Modifié par MedhiaNox, 13 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[Zofiya]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I am making this post in an honest attempt to help people understand and appreciate the endings more. I personally feel after reading posts here and hearing from friends that, most of this anger over the endings is caused because they did not see the over 4000 asset "destroy" option ending.

1) Wrong.

2) It is incredibly arrogant to presume to tell other players that we don't "get it" and that we need it explained to us. The game should have explained it to us; if we need to come here in order to understand the story, then it is fundamentally flawed in execution.

3) The "explanation" you provide is merely your own interpretation and not an official or canonical statement.

4) If you check the review thread, you'll see a lot of people explaining in lucid detail why they felt the ending was flawed, including:
- lack of closure
- lack of choice, in a game that conditions us to expect choice and consequence
- out-of-character behavior
- egregious plotholes

Regarding any subsequent "ending" DLC -- we shouldn't need ending DLC. BioWare said ME3 was the end of Shepard's story; it should have been the end. We were all expecting the end. And the end we were given was subtantially subpar. If the indoctrination theory is correct, then the "real" ending, after waking up, should have been included in the game, because the game was supposed to be the end. The indoctrination theory serves more to provide hope and a distraction, rather than addressing the fact that the ending was a terrible, terrible resolution in a purely dramatic sense.

[Smiley556]

IhateEA-Mask wrote...

People at hallucination thread are annoyed that mod linked to this thread to post asking questions when hallucination thread is older and has more pages Its kinda funny

I saw that, I was so dissapointed. Seriously thats all they care about...

[Rawgrim]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MedhiaNox wrote...

@Rawgrim: I'm sorry - but I feel that's absolutely horrible.

I think I would rather have the ending be real - than whether or not I was indoctrinated depending on if I got some obscure Volus artifact that raised my War Assets.

In truth - if Shepard is indoctrinated at all - it'll already be a nail in the coffin for me and no amount of DLC will likely be able to fix it.

---

My preferred amendment is as I stated - the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech - it ends up being a reality that the Illusive Man unintentionally (or better yet intentionally) made Shepard impervious to indoctrination - and this ultimately helps save the Mass Effect universe.

I hate TIM - I think he's a pitiful wretch... but I think this would give him a small infusion of depth. I think it would be ever better if you found out that TIM got indoctrinated while trying to figure out how to combat indoctrination - and Shepard was his only success. Ultimately - he would have sacrificed himself and Cerberus to resurrect Shepard and save humanity.

Well if everything that happened on the citadel happened in Shep`s head. Then Anderson and TIM are still alive.

yes, yes they are.. is it starting to sink in now?

Does it make sense that Anderson was on the front line charging down the reapers at the end and he made it to the beacon first, without anybody seeing him? 

NO, Shepard IMAGINES him there. He is a part of sheps subconscience that helps keep you on the right path of destroying the reapers. HE IS THE SANE SIDE of Sheps mind projected. TIM is delusion of control projected and synththesis is just... well reapers win.  

TIM also has that dark energy about him all the time too. Thats the indoctrination. Exactly what will happen if Shep choses Control.

[MedhiaNox]

@Smiley556: The internet spawns a cult with each new thread created. People blog and Facebook and write theories on gaming forums all in the name of the Cult of Personality now. It's the future.

[Lugaidster]

Guys, snap out of it. Tweets almost confirm that what we got is definitive. I was a believer of this theory since Saturday until now. Kinda sucks though...

[Capeo]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

well Capeo,

I give you props on finding the "source" ill look it over. though even that is not "proof" of anything and I would still be inclined to go with what i am actually seeing on screen then what is read off a an old script on the internet.

I mean its kinda like drawing a conclusion to a game while beta testing it. Its not an exact representative of the finished product.

My claims come from game footage that anybody can see. and wont change from person to person. The message recieved might change from different people but not whats shown on screen.

So again, good pull, ill look it over but i guess im not at all convinced that the shepard lives scene IS NOT the perfect ending, especially that those other options dont replace that scene with an alternateive but instead just dont have that scene at all.

What you find on screen proves nothing more than your speculation.  The endings are exactly the same as the script, including Shepard living, yet BW still puts the Synergy ending ahead of Destroy as the most desirable solution as it doesn't kill EDI or the geth.  You'll also find the conversations in there and see the only mention of indoctrination is in regards to TIM.  Even what's on screen doesn't support your hallucination theory as things that are clearly in Shepard's head (i.e. the dreams and the LI flashback) are in the typical slo-mo convention of filmmaking when showing dream sequences.  If they didn't mean Synergy to be the perfect ending they wouldn't have it unlock after Control and Destroy.

[Tiax Rules All]

Lugaidster wrote...

Guys, snap out of it. Tweets almost confirm that what we got is definitive. I was a believer of this theory since Saturday until now. Kinda sucks though...

 i saw tweets that say otherwise...

[Rawgrim]

Capeo wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

well Capeo,

I give you props on finding the "source" ill look it over. though even that is not "proof" of anything and I would still be inclined to go with what i am actually seeing on screen then what is read off a an old script on the internet.

I mean its kinda like drawing a conclusion to a game while beta testing it. Its not an exact representative of the finished product.

My claims come from game footage that anybody can see. and wont change from person to person. The message recieved might change from different people but not whats shown on screen.

So again, good pull, ill look it over but i guess im not at all convinced that the shepard lives scene IS NOT the perfect ending, especially that those other options dont replace that scene with an alternateive but instead just dont have that scene at all.

What you find on screen proves nothing more than your speculation.  The endings are exactly the same as the script, including Shepard living, yet BW still puts the Synergy ending ahead of Destroy as the most desirable solution as it doesn't kill EDI or the geth.  You'll also find the conversations in there and see the only mention of indoctrination is in regards to TIM.  Even what's on screen doesn't support your hallucination theory as things that are clearly in Shepard's head (i.e. the dreams and the LI flashback) are in the typical slo-mo convention of filmmaking when showing dream sequences.  If they didn't mean Synergy to be the perfect ending they wouldn't have it unlock after Control and Destroy.

Wasn`t the leaked script scrapped\\changed?

[Smiley556]

MedhiaNox wrote...

@Smiley556: The internet spawns a cult with each new thread created. People blog and Facebook and write theories on gaming forums all in the name of the Cult of Personality now. It's the future.

^ Loled, its so true.

[Promchek]

The more you defend nonsence, more nonsence you will get. For the books/movies/games, basecally story telling media, you really shoulden't give a credit for the things what autor DIDN'T put in, because, well here is a big leap, He didn't put in.

[Capeo]

Rawgrim wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

well Capeo,

I give you props on finding the "source" ill look it over. though even that is not "proof" of anything and I would still be inclined to go with what i am actually seeing on screen then what is read off a an old script on the internet.

I mean its kinda like drawing a conclusion to a game while beta testing it. Its not an exact representative of the finished product.

My claims come from game footage that anybody can see. and wont change from person to person. The message recieved might change from different people but not whats shown on screen.

So again, good pull, ill look it over but i guess im not at all convinced that the shepard lives scene IS NOT the perfect ending, especially that those other options dont replace that scene with an alternateive but instead just dont have that scene at all.

What you find on screen proves nothing more than your speculation.  The endings are exactly the same as the script, including Shepard living, yet BW still puts the Synergy ending ahead of Destroy as the most desirable solution as it doesn't kill EDI or the geth.  You'll also find the conversations in there and see the only mention of indoctrination is in regards to TIM.  Even what's on screen doesn't support your hallucination theory as things that are clearly in Shepard's head (i.e. the dreams and the LI flashback) are in the typical slo-mo convention of filmmaking when showing dream sequences.  If they didn't mean Synergy to be the perfect ending they wouldn't have it unlock after Control and Destroy.

Wasn`t the leaked script scrappedchanged?

Nope.  It's pretty much exactly the same except they took the prothean out of the main game and made him DLC and they took out taking back Omega, which will also probably be DLC.  Even the "stargazer" epilogue is in there.

[ThE-1cY]

Hey thanks OP, great read. But can you explain why in low EMS, the kid starts with an angry tone saying: "Why are you here?", in high EMS saying: "Wake up"?

Do you agree to the explanation below?
"If you have a low EMS, the starchild says in an angry tone "Why are you here"
If you have a high EMS, the starchild says in a less intimidating tone "Wake up"

My explanation is if Shepherd could only gather a small fleet (low EMS)
then he obviously didn't live up to the reapers' expectation, they will
deem him unworthy of indoctrinating, which is why the starchild said
'why are you here' (assuming the whole choices thing is an attempt to
indoctrinate him). In this scenario, Shepherd is expandable to the
reapers.

However if shepherd could gather a strong fleet (high
EMS), then the reapers will deem Shepherd as a potential threat, they
see power in Shpeherd that they can't comprehend, it's only natural that
they would want to posses his powers to ensure successful harvest in
future cycles, which is why they presented him with the control and
sythesis option, since those two choices will allow the reapers to fully
indoctrinate him.

Makes sense?"

Btw, OP, i think you've compiled most of the evidence from the 300+ pages of the indoctrination thread. Yours are mostly right and I hope this is the ending we're looking for.

Modifié par ThE-1cY, 13 mars 2012 - 06:46 .