1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Smiley556]

Abirn wrote...

Op it's you who doesn't get it. We wanted answers and we didn't get them. That is the problem

We do get it, and we want answers too and also didnt get them. However, I expect the answers to come in a Patch/DLC soon after global release of the game is done. We are patiently waiting for Bioware to release it while others rage wanting to see the ending Right now before everybody has even had a chance to buy and play ME3.

[Wattoes]

Aduro wrote...
It's a popular theory. But even if this is true, it is still far away from what the fans expected, were promised or deserved.

First, even if the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory is correct, it is far too ambiguous on its own. The fact that it took a time and the collective work of many fans to make it fit in properly suggests that, if it is the truth, it was not presented well enough to be entirely convincing - save for those clutching at straws. This is poor story-telling.

Very nicely written.  Ive been saying much of the same recently, but you word it far better.

[Soilworker77]

I accept that some choose to not believe the Indoctrination theory, but no matter what you choose, paragon, synthesis or renegade you still get to see the old man and the kid (if you had enough EMS points).
The kid asks the old man "Can you tell me another story about the Shepard?" The old man answers "It's getting late... But okay, one more story"

Don't you get it? BioWare have tricked us, Shepard's story isn't over yet, the trilogy might be over, but Shepard is not!

[Aduro]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Necroscope wrote...

Okay, all this was just indoctrination process, but where is the ENDING then!?
What happened to the Reapers?
What happened to the galaxy?
What happened to your friends?
What happened to TIM and Cerberus?
What happened etc.

Details lost in time!? Are you fu**in kidding me?

I hear you, though its either meant to be

1: open and ambigious, I imagine a sad ending though, a heroes ending. I aslo think companions died at final rush.

2: DLC with more post ending gameplay. Love it of hate it, should not be all that surprising

As for 1 - I mentioned this in an earlier post. We expected and were promised that there would be no loose ends with Shepard at the end, and that all of our choices would be shown to matter. That did not happen. In effect, we didn't get what we expected, deserved or were promised. I made other points before, but I guess my post was overlooked ;

As for 2, tacking on DLC after we  get a 'complete' game feels very very insulting. We also have to suffer through however long it takes, having no real answers.

Again, for the record, I support future DLC that starts off where the Indoctrination theory leaves the current ending. It does, however, need to give closure.

[Tiax Rules All]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

This is denial at it's best.

you are saying im denying what? that the ending is bad? that is subjective.

also even if im wrong and this was not the intended message at all, I PERSONALLY will believe this is what happened as it makes more sense then face value ending. less plot holes and a more satifying outcome. I was a little angry and confused at first too until this came to light. Now I am at peace with the ending.

[MuffinHead69]

I think the issue most people had was the lack of your choices and influence having a difference on the ending. For example you can make two characters who make wildly difference choices and potentially have one leave multiple races extict, but in the end you can have both just choose the exact same ending with your choices having no effect.

I just wish there were more scenes after. Regardless of the fate of Shepard or if it was a dream. I want to see if my choices lead to a strong future alliance between Geth and Quarian. I want to see what happens with the Krogan depending if you betray them or not. I want to see what happens to your surviving party members in the future.

They could have had several scenes extending the ending and giving you a glimpse of the galaxy that you left behind after the battle at earth, these could have been vastly different depending on your choices in the series.

[Auresta]

I think both are needed: we need closure but we also need an ending that makes sense. I didn't read all of your post since most of it is addressed in the indoctrination theory, but I applaud you for taking this effort.

Even if this theory is right (and if it is, I will rejoice!) that doesn't mean that they don't have to address the lack of closure. Open-endedness is different from a lack of closure.

ME3 has two problems: an ending that doesn't make sense (tries to resolve itself in 3 minutes with the introduction of a star-brat) and along with that, we are offered 3 options that don't matter much beyond the difference in colors. We don't know why our crew being stranded on a random ass planet is comforting. We don't see how civilizations will rebuild themselves after the destruction of the mass relays (and while it is understandable that they will survive and rebuild them, too much is left to the imagination).

[Aduro]

MuffinHead69 wrote...

I think the issue most people had was the lack of your choices and influence having a difference on the ending. For example you can make two characters who make wildly difference choices and potentially have one leave multiple races extict, but in the end you can have both just choose the exact same ending with your choices having no effect.

I just wish there were more scenes after. Regardless of the fate of Shepard or if it was a dream. I want to see if my choices lead to a strong future alliance between Geth and Quarian. I want to see what happens with the Krogan depending if you betray them or not. I want to see what happens to your surviving party members in the future.

They could have had several scenes extending the ending and giving you a glimpse of the galaxy that you left behind after the battle at earth, these could have been vastly different depending on your choices in the series.

This, in effect, is what we needed!

[Ailith Tycane]

Your explanation makes sense, but at the same time, if over 30,000 people playing the game didn't "get it" then the fault lies completely on the writers for not being clear enough. It's their job to make the audience understand what's going on. Now that doesn't mean they need to hold the audiences hand, and explain every single little thing, you can leave room for subtlety, but you need to give clues as to what your intention was, and I personally never got any of those clues. The hallucination theory was never explained in the game even a little bit, and that's bad writing. It honestly never even crossed my mind until I read about it here. So what's more likely, Everyone who played the game is an idiot, or Bioware wrote the ending poorly?

[Keithhy]

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

If this is true, it's like selling Mass Effect 2 and then telling everyone they'll have to buy the actual Collector Base mission as DLC.

More like having the Normandy crash land on the Collector Base, killing everyone on board, only to be told afterwards that it was a joke, and that you could assault the CB for real for just $12.99!

The indoctrination theory is interesting, but, unfortunately wrong. Shepard's being indoctrinated is an interesting theory, but for it to be real, the game would have necessitated a moment of triumph over the indoctrination, and a real ending. Quite honestly, I don't think that Bioware or EA - particularly EA: big companies are averse to risks - would have the balls to go through with something like this, angering their entire fanbase. Sure, people might buy new ending DLC, but what will happen to other DLC? Future Bioware products? Not to mention that this theory necessitates screwing over everyone without Live or PSN, and so on. 

Personally, I think that this is a simple case of Bioware overextending itself, and trying to make Mass Effect something that it isn't - trying to be deep and insightful, but coming across terribly. Unless the ending was rushed - endings aren't usually made last, but this is possible if the original ending was scrapped late in the cycle - then I think that we really need to accept that Bioware is at fault for this, not EA, and that it really was a screw up, and not some part of a larger master plan.

[Mr.Snithums]

As much as I would like to believe the entire ending is a hallucination/indoctrinated vision there should still be a proper ending to follow this. Sure I've seen the 'Shepard Lives' 4 second video with in the breathing in the ruins but what does that prove? At one point, at sometime after the events of the previous scenes, Shepard is alive. Okay great, but if everything prior to that was just a hallucination what actually happened? What is happening? If it wasn't a hallucination, then still whats going on? These are the things I want to see and the things that should be in the game at release. If that content wasn't done at release, push it back its not like its the end of the world and I'd much rather finish a complete game rather than wait around and possibly pay extra for an addon to 'Finish the Fight.'

[Smiley556]

I think Bioware understand full well what the players want and expect. Can you for a moment consider the fact that they might be holding out on this epic ending untill AFTER everybody has had a chance to buy/play the game? Again, ME3 isnt released everywhere yet!

[crimzontearz]

yeah...no sorry. This only makes it worse

[SaladinDheonqar]

I don't hate the endings because I don't understand them or they're particularly bleak, I hate them because they're poorly wriiten, offer no real resolutions, and are utterly devoid of any player-specific variations. You cannot just stick a Deus Ex-ish ending to a series like ME and think that's ok. It's a bloody cop out.

Modifié par SaladinDheonqar, 13 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[Ieldra]

Three words @OP:

Insane troll logic

[Humakt83]

This is good post, thought you could mention even more hints regarding this.

Couple subtle ones:

1. James tells he hears humming. It is easy to ignore as you think it is just ship's engines and he is not used to it. But I remember vaguely that the humming is also something reaper machines do to indoctrinate. Is IFF still on board Normandy? I remember a mention that Shepard was constructed using Reaper tech (video logs in Cerberus base?).

2. No one else interacts with the child Shepard sees at the beginning.

3. Javek mentions that Reapers often indoctrinate children to use in the war. This can be a very subtle hint to the children Shepard is dreaming of.

All in all the 'ending' is indeed brilliant. But it still lacks the satisfactory closure we crave.

[Aduro]

Smiley556 wrote...

I think Bioware understand full well what the players want and expect. Can you for a moment consider the fact that they might be holding out on this epic ending untill AFTER everybody has had a chance to buy/play the game? Again, ME3 isnt released everywhere yet!

I truely, deeply and strongly wish to believe this will happen. Really, I do. But it doesn't mater sense to me, from a business perspective. It would cause a great deal more damage to their profits than any benefit - unless they play it VERY VERY carefully. To be fair, I will give Bioware the benefit of the doubt that they might be brave enough to try, but the situation is RAPIDLY deteriorating. A solution will be needed soon, and their time frame of doing this well is rapidly shrinking.

[Rulycar]

BS
... we were told multiplayer wasn't needed to score enough for the ending.
... 4000 requires multiplayer to reach.

[Ailith Tycane]

Humakt83 wrote...

This is good post, thought you could mention even more hints regarding this.

Couple subtle ones:

1. James tells he hears humming. It is easy to ignore as you think it is just ship's engines and he is not used to it. But I remember vaguely that the humming is also something reaper machines do to indoctrinate. Is IFF still on board Normandy? I remember a mention that Shepard was constructed using Reaper tech (video logs in Cerberus base?).

2. No one else interacts with the child Shepard sees at the beginning.

3. Javek mentions that Reapers often indoctrinate children to use in the war. This can be a very subtle hint to the children Shepard is dreaming of.

All in all the 'ending' is indeed brilliant. But it still lacks the satisfactory closure we crave.

This could all very well be true, but if so, the writers should have pointed it out better.

[Blayzereborn]

So what you're telling me, OP, is that the ending was not only illogical and pointless, but was actually a waste of development time and money because nothing actually happened.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

This is denial at it's best.

you are saying im denying what? that the ending is bad? that is subjective.

also even if im wrong and this was not the intended message at all, I PERSONALLY will believe this is what happened as it makes more sense then face value ending. less plot holes and a more satifying outcome. I was a little angry and confused at first too until this came to light. Now I am at peace with the ending.

It's denial because you refuse to accept the intended ending, and have instead found ways to create a new ending.

And i actually think the ending of ME3 is the first thing in literature than can be stated as objectively bad.

[R3MUS]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Your avatar makes me dislike you even more than i already do for pretending to be so high-minded and edumacatin all us ig'nant BSN fokes here.

What have I done to you? I never said or tried to imply im better then you. I know someone will find this useful.

Its the way you present your argument.

It would be nice if you stopped spamming threads with "SPACE MAGIC" in different colors, too.

Im lost, whos spamming what now? I think you have the wrong guy. If you don't like my thread cool, but dont make stuff up. Also, not really sure how I could have "presented my arguement" differently. Sorry. This thread was supposed to non rage inducing

It was to Adugan. He spams almost every thread with SPACE MAGIC with different colors.

[Smiley556]

Aduro wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

I think Bioware understand full well what the players want and expect. Can you for a moment consider the fact that they might be holding out on this epic ending untill AFTER everybody has had a chance to buy/play the game? Again, ME3 isnt released everywhere yet!

I truely, deeply and strongly wish to believe this will happen. Really, I do. But it doesn't mater sense to me, from a business perspective. It would cause a great deal more damage to their profits than any benefit - unless they play it VERY VERY carefully. To be fair, I will give Bioware the benefit of the doubt that they might be brave enough to try, but the situation is RAPIDLY deteriorating. A solution will be needed soon, and their time frame of doing this well is rapidly shrinking.

Looking ahead it might have seemed not so bad, I mean earliest release is 6th of march, last one is 15th of march, thats just over a week. I dont think anyone couldve expected this massive ****storm over the course of a few days as it is happning now.

Eitherway it would be a ballsy gamble, and the thing about ballsy gambles is that they can backfire, maybe that will happen, or maybe the community will settle down when/if the end is released. Time will tell.

[Aduro]

Blayzereborn wrote...

So what you're telling me, OP, is that the ending was not only illogical and pointless, but was actually a waste of development time and money because nothing actually happened.

I believe the OP also added on that DLC will be made available to start off from the current ending - then giving the true ending (I think, am I wrong >_< Too lazy to check, sorry if I am.) So, the current ending is important, as your actions could potentially determine your state of indoctrination afterwards. Just to clarify...I think...

[Tiax Rules All]

Ailith430 wrote...

Your explanation makes sense, but at the same time, if over 30,000 people playing the game didn't "get it" then the fault lies completely on the writers for not being clear enough. It's their job to make the audience understand what's going on. Now that doesn't mean they need to hold the audiences hand, and explain every single little thing, you can leave room for subtlety, but you need to give clues as to what your intention was, and I personally never got any of those clues. The hallucination theory was never explained in the game even a little bit, and that's bad writing. It honestly never even crossed my mind until I read about it here. So what's more likely, Everyone who played the game is an idiot, or Bioware wrote the ending poorly?

I dont think the outrage is as widespread as you may think. If you have been here long enough you will see that issues are always blown way outta proportion and exagerrated on the BSN. I was actually one that participated in polls and threads saying that i hated it and was totally agreeing with the "bad ending" crew.

But i HAVE flipped. I am no longer bitter about it knowing what I know and now I am here trying to help a few others that could be just like me.

So are "all fans idiots" no, though some are still in the dark about the real ending.
did Bioware write a bad ending? I say no, but thats well... my opinion man     I liked it BECAUSE it was not the slideshow epilogue and because they took the chance to write something out of the box for video game endings.