1594 réponses à ce sujet

[eoinnx03]

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

If this is true, it's like selling Mass Effect 2 and then telling everyone they'll have to buy the actual Collector Base mission as DLC.

This.
Sadly I would buy it just to make the pain stop. ''MAKE IT STOP!''
'

[Tiax Rules All]

pixieface wrote...

Falconee wrote...
But dont forget, that there is an ending where Shepard remains dead (or dies) even if you destroy the Reapers. ^^

If that is meant to be an argument against this theory, I always interpretted that particular ending (dying even though you chose Destroy) as Shepard simply not having enough forces to push back the Reapers while s/he was going through the indoctrination vision. She may have fought off indoctrination, but she ultimately dies from the battle.

 but if you do it right you dont have to image sheps death of survival. its clearly shown to you. and would only be more obvious if it had flashing neon lights saying this is the real ending all over sheps body. 

want the best ending? get your EMF >4k save anderson, and choose destroy.

[Tiax Rules All]

ed87 wrote...

This is not the problem. Even IF it was the problem, a long essay being necessary to explain the ending to most should be deemed a failure in writing. Its like trying to understand doodles on a notebook

 I really dont think its that hard to get. read the OP, have questions? PM me or ask here. I will clarify. Not getting it can be remedied. CHOOSING NOT to get it is a little harder to overcome.

[Myrmedus]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Esquin wrote...

No. You're wrong.

I get it. I just wanted some kind of closure. You're ignoring the issue. We just wanted to know what happened to our galaxy after we made our decision. Thats all.

^This.

Sorry OP, but I already figured out Shep was being slowly indoctrinated during the game. The dreams screamed indoctrination. I wanted to see what happened after that. How did my decisions affect the rest of the galaxy? There was no closure.

nothing to appologise for other then wasting everybodies time because this post has nothing to do with the topic. Its clearly stated we dont care if you like it or not. im just trying to answer questions and clarify if i can.

Don't speak for us. 

You don't care but many of us do.

[Myrmedus]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ed87 wrote...

This is not the problem. Even IF it was the problem, a long essay being necessary to explain the ending to most should be deemed a failure in writing. Its like trying to understand doodles on a notebook

 I really dont think its that hard to get. read the OP, have questions? PM me or ask here. I will clarify. Not getting it can be remedied. CHOOSING NOT to get it is a little harder to overcome.

Empirical evidence disagrees with you. If 90% of the people who played the game didn't understand the ending then it was "difficult to get". That is the definition of difficult: most don't succeed at it.

[xeNNN]

Bassyblue wrote...

The problem is that even if the indoctrination theory is correct, you're still not getting an ending. I'm getting rather sick of people saying "oh you just don't get the ending, you have to think about it a bit". If you have to think that hard about it and then realise that nothing has been solved then you'd know it's not an ending in the first place and everything being said about indoctrination theory is invalid as an ending. More like a "buy our ending pack DLC" argument.

i agree... for the people who actually think we dont understand thats why we hate it, you are very wrong ALOT of us and i mean A LOT have sat here talking to eachother for days we used logical deduction and supisition and assumptions and every other form of thought in terms of our level of existance. naturally logical deduction won with a solid arguement, we understand the endings we get why they are there, but they are not for mass effect ... they degrade every part of what mass effect was about and changes the whole idea of what the game is supposed to be about while playing.

Modifié par xeNNN, 13 mars 2012 - 09:47 .

[Tiax Rules All]

MortalEngines wrote...

I want to know why everyone is so convinced this magical ending DLC is coming? Has anyone ever seen the ending of a game put in as a DLC a few weeks after a game? EVER? 

This is the company that was rattled after Fox News complained about Alien side boob and you really expect me to believe they went "we'll keep the ending secret till global release". What about people with no internet? What about people who didn't get high enough EMS?

What happens if there is no DLC? Does that mean the indoctrination theory is nonsense? To me, I feel it is already. People seem to claim it's true because it's the only way the story makes sense. Am I the only one who sees that the story doesn't make sense - that's why the ending is so shockingly bad. There is no closure AND it doesn't make sense.
You do release it's possible for things not to make sense rather than make a contrived theory in order to smooth your own fears over the reality that the ending is pretty simple and crap. And don't give me a 'Bioware wouldn't possible ruin a game like this...etc etc"

The simple fact is Bioware can make mistake, so have many many other games (including DA2 - another bad ending). Things can seem like good ideas at the time and turn out to be bad. Also it's pretty evident that the ending was half-baked from the scrambling that ensued after they tried to change the dark matter ending orginally planned.

But I'll likely be told I just don't 'get it' like I'm some nit-wit with no imagination. I get it - just doesn't mean it's true. This reminds me of all the crazy Assassin's Creed and Alan Wake theories that go around.

by your own admission you say that the indoctrination theory is the only one that makes sense, if that is the case then why fight it. it makes sense because its intened to. Sure maybe they didnt do a good job on making everyone aware of exactly what they are seeing. but they never promised your dream ending, And you dont make the rules as to what is legit and what is not as far as endings go. hate it if you want but Bioware is gonna write what they want and EA is gonna market it how they want. deal.

[ericjdev]

Wheter it plays out as a dream sequence/indoctrination or that's how it all actually went down it's crap. You can't tell me that the problem with that lazy, tone-deaf, derivative, piece of filth ridden with plot holes and bad literary devices is that I 'don't get it' - I get it, and it sucks.

[Tiax Rules All]

Myrmedus wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Esquin wrote...

No. You're wrong.

I get it. I just wanted some kind of closure. You're ignoring the issue. We just wanted to know what happened to our galaxy after we made our decision. Thats all.

^This.

Sorry OP, but I already figured out Shep was being slowly indoctrinated during the game. The dreams screamed indoctrination. I wanted to see what happened after that. How did my decisions affect the rest of the galaxy? There was no closure.

nothing to appologise for other then wasting everybodies time because this post has nothing to do with the topic. Its clearly stated we dont care if you like it or not. im just trying to answer questions and clarify if i can.

Don't speak for us. 

You don't care but many of us do.

my point is yes i dont care. Ill tell you flatly that my opinion on the ending is solidified. i seen them all, know what they mean. and came out the other end enjoying them. You will never sway my thoughts.

this is not a, did you like the ending, thread. Its a indoctrination theory thread.

no malice, no sarcasm from me.. just, lets move on.

[Tiax Rules All]

ericjdev wrote...

Wheter it plays out as a dream sequence/indoctrination or that's how it all actually went down it's crap. You can't tell me that the problem with that lazy, tone-deaf, derivative, piece of filth ridden with plot holes and bad literary devices is that I 'don't get it' - I get it, and it sucks.

which plot holes are you referring to, because that is the point of this thread. to offer up this as the inteneded and implied ending, I have filled many holes over 30 pages. and i will offer in game references to all of my "answers"

[dkear1]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wheter it plays out as a dream sequence/indoctrination or that's how it all actually went down it's crap. You can't tell me that the problem with that lazy, tone-deaf, derivative, piece of filth ridden with plot holes and bad literary devices is that I 'don't get it' - I get it, and it sucks.

which plot holes are you referring to, because that is the point of this thread. to offer up this as the inteneded and implied ending, I have filled many holes over 30 pages. and i will offer in game references to all of my "answers"

Um....the fact that YOU are trying to explain the games plot holes, is a testament to the games complete failure to properly explain itself.  If anything, this is something I don't understand.  Why would you care.

I only can speak for myself and I tell you NO amount of rationalization can suffice.  The ending was out of character with the rest of the game and thus I think it sucked.

[DextroDNA]

The Shepard bit at the end also confused me. The Citadel was destroyed, his body would've been thrown out into orbit or have been completely destroyed by the blast. Also, the Citadel is metal - the rubble Shepard is lying in is obviously stone. This thread has actually given me hope, that the true ending will be delivered through (hopefully) free DLC. Before anyone tries to combat my comment, it is NOT possible for the rubble that Shepard was in to be from the Citadel. He would either have died due to lack of oxygen or died from the explosion. The rubble was obviously rock, like on Earth, and Tiax was right - none of the last bit makes sense. Why would the Catalyst be a child that had been haunting Shepard throughout the game? He imagined it. It told him he would die either way, he didn't. I looked around on the final limp to the Conduit on Earth, and Anderson was not there. And the radio chatter confused me as I couldn't see where it was coming from. Also - the final limp did seem very dream-like, gloomy like the dreams. As far as we know, Shepard never described the Collector Base to Anderson, and Anderson couldn't have gotten on to the citadel. There was only one entrance into that final console room, and Anderson didn't get in through there. TIM's face was another thing, a figment of Shepard's imagination - there was no way TIM could've gotten onto that part of the Citadel without using the Conduit, which he didn't. The last scene doesn't make sense, not in the way you think, but in the way that everything that happened isn't possible. This means that the Destruction Ending (which wasn't actually an ending) was the "right" choice, and ends with Shepard waking up in London.
Thank you, Tiax - for opening my eyes

[dkear1]

RussianZombeh wrote...

The Shepard bit at the end also confused me. The Citadel was destroyed, his body would've been thrown out into orbit or have been completely destroyed by the blast. Also, the Citadel is metal - the rubble Shepard is lying in is obviously stone. This thread has actually given me hope, that the true ending will be delivered through (hopefully) free DLC. Before anyone tries to combat my comment, it is NOT possible for the rubble that Shepard was in to be from the Citadel. He would either have died due to lack of oxygen or died from the explosion. The rubble was obviously rock, like on Earth, and Tiax was right - none of the last bit makes sense. Why would the Catalyst be a child that had been haunting Shepard throughout the game? He imagined it. It told him he would die either way, he didn't. I looked around on the final limp to the Conduit on Earth, and Anderson was not there. And the radio chatter confused me as I couldn't see where it was coming from. Also - the final limp did seem very dream-like, gloomy like the dreams. As far as we know, Shepard never described the Collector Base to Anderson, and Anderson couldn't have gotten on to the citadel. There was only one entrance into that final console room, and Anderson didn't get in through there. TIM's face was another thing, a figment of Shepard's imagination - there was no way TIM could've gotten onto that part of the Citadel without using the Conduit, which he didn't. The last scene doesn't make sense, not in the way you think, but in the way that everything that happened isn't possible. This means that the Destruction Ending (which wasn't actually an ending) was the "right" choice, and ends with Shepard waking up in London.
Thank you, Tiax - for opening my eyes

Say you are right and this is true....I don't think many fans are going to accept it.....perhaps they will.  I know only that I will not.  This, in my mind was a horrible way to end a game.  If they had used this as a segway and continued from there it would have been brilliant!

[Varghulf]

I really like how they plotted out the ending and for me the whole ME experience was fantastic.
But I got one question, you said that Shepard hears over the radio that nobody made it to the beam, but in the Citadel hes getting contacted by Admiral Hackett (over the radio) who is saying that the crucible is not doing anything, is this also part of the dream/indoctrination? Or could Shepard be truly hearing this (even while still lying down in the rubble of London)?
Meaning is this a sign that hes alive enough that he can speak over the comm to Hackett or is it just part of his dreamlike state?

[Tiax Rules All]

dkear1 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wheter it plays out as a dream sequence/indoctrination or that's how it all actually went down it's crap. You can't tell me that the problem with that lazy, tone-deaf, derivative, piece of filth ridden with plot holes and bad literary devices is that I 'don't get it' - I get it, and it sucks.

which plot holes are you referring to, because that is the point of this thread. to offer up this as the inteneded and implied ending, I have filled many holes over 30 pages. and i will offer in game references to all of my "answers"

Um....the fact that YOU are trying to explain the games plot holes, is a testament to the games complete failure to properly explain itself.  If anything, this is something I don't understand.  Why would you care.

I only can speak for myself and I tell you NO amount of rationalization can suffice.  The ending was out of character with the rest of the game and thus I think it sucked.

with complete honesty, i have got numerous posts from people saying "thank you for clarifying this for me" i mean look at the post below too. Some people come here looking for answeres and im trying to help. because when take the endings at face value or interperet them wrong it causes anger. I had it. I was angry with my ending till my eyes were opened by the complete ending and the pieces all fit into place, allusions and hints giving to me throughout the game now start popping up and I get them. the viel has been lifted and i see what bioware tried to do with the ending.

you may still hate it, so hate on. That was never supposed to be my point.

[DextroDNA]

Varghulf wrote...

I really like how they plotted out the ending and for me the whole ME experience was fantastic.
But I got one question, you said that Shepard hears over the radio that nobody made it to the beam, but in the Citadel hes getting contacted by Admiral Hackett (over the radio) who is saying that the crucible is not doing anything, is this also part of the dream/indoctrination? Or could Shepard be truly hearing this (even while still lying down in the rubble of London)?
Meaning is this a sign that hes alive enough that he can speak over the comm to Hackett or is it just part of his dreamlike state?

You hear over the radio that everyone is dead, that noone made it to the Citadel. I think Hackett speaking was also part of the dream.

[Tiax Rules All]

dkear1 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

The Shepard bit at the end also confused me. The Citadel was destroyed, his body would've been thrown out into orbit or have been completely destroyed by the blast. Also, the Citadel is metal - the rubble Shepard is lying in is obviously stone. This thread has actually given me hope, that the true ending will be delivered through (hopefully) free DLC. Before anyone tries to combat my comment, it is NOT possible for the rubble that Shepard was in to be from the Citadel. He would either have died due to lack of oxygen or died from the explosion. The rubble was obviously rock, like on Earth, and Tiax was right - none of the last bit makes sense. Why would the Catalyst be a child that had been haunting Shepard throughout the game? He imagined it. It told him he would die either way, he didn't. I looked around on the final limp to the Conduit on Earth, and Anderson was not there. And the radio chatter confused me as I couldn't see where it was coming from. Also - the final limp did seem very dream-like, gloomy like the dreams. As far as we know, Shepard never described the Collector Base to Anderson, and Anderson couldn't have gotten on to the citadel. There was only one entrance into that final console room, and Anderson didn't get in through there. TIM's face was another thing, a figment of Shepard's imagination - there was no way TIM could've gotten onto that part of the Citadel without using the Conduit, which he didn't. The last scene doesn't make sense, not in the way you think, but in the way that everything that happened isn't possible. This means that the Destruction Ending (which wasn't actually an ending) was the "right" choice, and ends with Shepard waking up in London.
Thank you, Tiax - for opening my eyes

Say you are right and this is true....I don't think many fans are going to accept it.....perhaps they will.  I know only that I will not.  This, in my mind was a horrible way to end a game.  If they had used this as a segway and continued from there it would have been brilliant!

thats opinion. I think this could have been done better but the whole idea of real time playable and hidden indoctrination screen is different, i have never been played like that in a game. sheps decisions at the end is YOUR decision. Anderson at citadel, TIM and boy were all talking to YOU as much as they are talking to shep. I felt like the ending was more of a playable ending then the standard bioware, epilogue slideshow.

[Sargaz]

they made and ending

[Abram730]

Aduro wrote...

There is already a large Indoctrination/Hallucination thread (multiple, actually). It's a popular theory. But even if this is true, it is still far away from what the fans expected, were promised or deserved.

First, even if the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory is correct, it is far too ambiguous on its own. The fact that it took a time and the collective work of many fans to make it fit in properly suggests that, if it is the truth, it was not presented well enough to be entirely convincing - save for those clutching at straws. This is poor story-telling.

We were expecting, and promised by Casey Hudson (I believe), that our choices would matter in the end and that there would be no loose ends with Shepard. The exact opposite happened. If it is a hallucination/indoctrination, then we haven't seen the end yet. Having the 'true' end being a question as to whether Shepard is alive just adds to this. We want, no NEED closure. Not just with Shepard but with the other people and races. They are not shown, they are not mentioned. If the theory is true, we're provided with a fake ending that leaves far more questions than answers.

It was stated that the ending would differ by our choices - that the main theme of Mass Effect, our choices and their consequences, would bear fruit into and past the end. Again, this was ignored. I believe it was stated that there would be endings for each decision, and that it wouldn't be reduced to a choice between 'A, B and C'. Yet that is what happens at the end, hallucination or not.

It's not that we didn't get a happy ending, it's not that we didn't 'get it'. It's that it went against the very idea of Mass Effect - that our choices matter and have consequences -, that we didn't get closure (whether the hallucination theory is right or not) and that we were lied to about what to expect.

That is why I hate the ending...

Edit: For the record, I support the Indoctrination theory and would love for them to have DLC that goes past it. But it should have been included in the release if it is true, and it must STILL satisfy the other requirements to be a satisfying end.

I am a fan of Mass effect and you DO NOT speak for me. The world does not revolve around you.
Just because you demand that Bioware not make any more mass effect games does not make you the biggest fan. Quite the opposite.

I'll bet here are 3-6 results from the ending choices in ME4.. these effect your "closure" for shepard, but you will need to invest in a new character to see those.. no clean breakup.. sorry but, there will be new games.

In ME1 you killed a reaper.. in ME2 you killed a reaper.. In ME3 you killed 3 reapers.. but you want more..
you got closure for the geth / quarian situation.. but you want more
you got closure for the genephage.. but you want more
ext..

What I see is lots of people acting like infants and having temper tantrums.. give me!! give me!! Waaaaaa Waaaa

first you are angry that they "killed the series" because the relays are destroyed and there can be no more Mass Effect games.. then you hear the alt interpretations and are angry that the universe isn't destroyed.. That there could be more mass effect games..

I think you have other issues not related to the game.. The game doesn't come with a wife and a life.. that's a story you need to write.

I qute enjoyed the game, and the ending.. I don't mind the questions. When it comes down to it, It's a game and it's fun.. you expect too much from something that costs what a few meals out will cost you.

Most of you ruined the game for yourself before you even played it.. Why would you look at the ending before you played the game?

[Tiax Rules All]

Varghulf wrote...

I really like how they plotted out the ending and for me the whole ME experience was fantastic.
But I got one question, you said that Shepard hears over the radio that nobody made it to the beam, but in the Citadel hes getting contacted by Admiral Hackett (over the radio) who is saying that the crucible is not doing anything, is this also part of the dream/indoctrination? Or could Shepard be truly hearing this (even while still lying down in the rubble of London)?
Meaning is this a sign that hes alive enough that he can speak over the comm to Hackett or is it just part of his dreamlike state?

still in london, lying there. hearing the same radio chatter? even though Shep responds, hackett never seems to hear him, just repeating "shepard?"

so once again real world radio and continuing battle in real world creeping into Sheps subconscience. Its actually quite cool.

[Tiax Rules All]

fun question....

if it was confirmed that shep dies no matter what at the end and its meant to not show your the "closure" because Shep doesnt witness the closure. If shep dies on the battle field, you die. witnessing everything through your characters eyes.

Would the happy enhding peeps still be mad? i mean plenty of movies out there sad endings, there is no rule to say we HAVE to get a happily ever after or that a sad ending of shep dying in london during the final push that turned the tide to the war.

I personnaly have no issue with that. I think a dark and gritty and mature ending is better then and sail off into the sunset anyday.

[ELFH]

Mass-ception?

[Varghulf]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Varghulf wrote...

I really like how they plotted out the ending and for me the whole ME experience was fantastic.
But I got one question, you said that Shepard hears over the radio that nobody made it to the beam, but in the Citadel hes getting contacted by Admiral Hackett (over the radio) who is saying that the crucible is not doing anything, is this also part of the dream/indoctrination? Or could Shepard be truly hearing this (even while still lying down in the rubble of London)?
Meaning is this a sign that hes alive enough that he can speak over the comm to Hackett or is it just part of his dreamlike state?

still in london, lying there. hearing the same radio chatter? even though Shep responds, hackett never seems to hear him, just repeating "shepard?"

so once again real world radio and continuing battle in real world creeping into Sheps subconscience. Its actually quite cool.

yeah I though so too, but now it looks like we failed to break the cycle, as the crucible does not work.
But on the other hand i'm thinking that because Hakett says "Nothing is happening, the crucible is not firing, its got to be something on your end" as a reply on Shepard saying "what do you need me to do?" its still part of the dream, but then the lines "commander Shepard?" and "commander?!" make it look like what ever Shepard is saying its not being recieved by Hackett.

Still I can't wait for any future DLC that might bring more background story on what exactly happens after these events.

[CrimsonNephilim]

Question:

If the whole deal with the endings actually is this whole dream/indoctrination idea that seems to be going around, then doesn't that mean that when Shepard finally wakes up in the rubble that the reapers are still rampaging around? If everything that happens in the ending is just a dream sequence, doesn't that technically mean that whatever choice we made on the citadel (merge, destroy, or control) didn't actually happen? That the war is still going on while Shepard (and team if they even lived through that blast) has been knocked out and that we basically finished a game that had no complete ending?

And if Bioware does come out with a DLC that plays into this, that it means will have to pay to get a DLC that has the real game ending in it?

[Myrmedus]

It's a cool concept but it should've been concluded. I can definitely appreciate it for what it is, if it is the case, but it still requires a conclusion IMO.

Shepard is ****ing Batman. He has an iron will. He CAN overcome indoctrination, even if just for a time, so I want to see what happens at the other end of it...that's the part I'm unhappy with in the game.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 13 mars 2012 - 10:35 .