1594 réponses à ce sujet

[kookie28]

OP, why didn't the Prothean VI detect indoctrination in Shepard?

[Aduro]

Smiley556 wrote...

Aduro wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

I think Bioware understand full well what the players want and expect. Can you for a moment consider the fact that they might be holding out on this epic ending untill AFTER everybody has had a chance to buy/play the game? Again, ME3 isnt released everywhere yet!

I truely, deeply and strongly wish to believe this will happen. Really, I do. But it doesn't mater sense to me, from a business perspective. It would cause a great deal more damage to their profits than any benefit - unless they play it VERY VERY carefully. To be fair, I will give Bioware the benefit of the doubt that they might be brave enough to try, but the situation is RAPIDLY deteriorating. A solution will be needed soon, and their time frame of doing this well is rapidly shrinking.

Looking ahead it might have seemed not so bad, I mean earliest release is 6th of march, last one is 15th of march, thats just over a week. I dont think anyone couldve expected this massive ****storm over the course of a few days as it is happning now.

Eitherway it would be a ballsy gamble, and the thing about ballsy gambles is that they can backfire, maybe that will happen, or maybe the community will settle down when/if the end is released. Time will tell.

True, and a good perspective. However, with how badly this is currently going I would have expected them to cut their losses by now and at least state that there is something more. Not neccesarily something specific, but enough to curb the flames. Also, many of their reactions seem to either be 'no comment' or 'too bad'. The former is hopeful, the latter is damning to the theory.

All we can really say is time will tell at this point =/. hope it's true though, I want satisfaction XD

[RABicle]

Oh ****off you ****s with your ending where you run away with Garrus and live happily ever after. That ending would've been such ****ing cop out. This is the ending you maggots deserve.

Modifié par RABicle, 13 mars 2012 - 11:03 .

[Wattoes]

Soilworker77 wrote...

I accept that some choose to not believe the Indoctrination theory, but no matter what you choose, paragon, synthesis or renegade you still get to see the old man and the kid (if you had enough EMS points).
The kid asks the old man "Can you tell me another story about the Shepard?" The old man answers "It's getting late... But okay, one more story"

Don't you get it? BioWare have tricked us, Shepard's story isn't over yet, the trilogy might be over, but Shepard is not!

Maybe he will tell him about the slavers or something.  Its not conclusive.

Also the "can you tell me another story" would imply a concusion to the current story.
For some reason, assuming indoctrination, I dont forsee this being realistic.
"In the charge to save the galaxy he failed and got blown to s*** by a lazer"
"SWEET STORY GRANDPA, TELL ME MORE ABOUT HIM"

[tersidre]

because it wasnt until that particular point that indoctrination could of really of set in. Also shepards particuarly strong willed nature would of kept it at bay longer then most.

It isnt a coincidence that it happened just as harbringer shows up.

[Tiax Rules All]

tersidre wrote...

because it wasnt until that particular point that indoctrination could of really of set in. Also shepards particuarly strong willed nature would of kept it at bay longer then most.

It isnt a coincidence that it happened just as harbringer shows up.

Indoctrination is the big underlying theme of the whole series. Possibly THE biggest plot point in the game. They way i see it. they made the ending more about shepards personal struggle with the indoctrination. I think this is brilliant writing. Its a risk, a twist and all that. but its just really deep with many call back and allusions from earlier in the series.

[Ailith Tycane]

Tiax Rules All wrote...
I dont think the outrage is as widespread as you may think. If you have been here long enough you will see that issues are always blown way outta proportion and exagerrated on the BSN. I was actually one that participated in polls and threads saying that i hated it and was totally agreeing with the "bad ending" crew.

But i HAVE flipped. I am no longer bitter about it knowing what I know and now I am here trying to help a few others that could be just like me.

So are "all fans idiots" no, though some are still in the dark about the real ending.
did Bioware write a bad ending? I say no, but thats well... my opinion man     I liked it BECAUSE it was not the slideshow epilogue and because they took the chance to write something out of the box for video game endings.

Yeah, I understand the forums are going crazy and it's not a fair represenation of how everyone feels, but I think even if people aren't pissed, they're at least scratching their heads.

Fact is the writers failed, and they didn't failt just because I personally didn't like the ending, they failed because more than half of the stuff in your explination was all post-hoc rationalizations. Basically, by deconstructing anything, you can come to pretty much whatever conclusion you could possibly want, but none of that was actually SHOWN to us for certain. They failed to make their intent clear to the audience, and that's my main problem. Also, the fact that this entire series since the first game has been based on player choice, consequences for your actions, and then suddenly none of those choices matter, and they decide to go down the route of "It was all a dream" at the last second.

[Tajah Silver-Sparke]

Aduro wrote...

tersidre wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

This is denial at it's best.

or its someone using their observational skills to actually make sense of what happened, in truth there really are no other explanations for what happened.

It's still possible that they ran out of time and had to rush the very end, which would be very unfortunate. T_T

I get the ending and I too was disappointed by the lack of real choice.  It all boiled down to choosing a color and doing some multiplayer  for my single player game (dont get me started on that).  I hated the ending and was as emotionally affected as you all here.  I read the theories floating around the boards and there are some really creative people out there who should be working for Bioware.  The truth is more likely that EA wanted the game pushed out and Bioware wasn't finished and had to rush it out.  EA is experiencing financial difficulties right now and needs the money that ME3 can bring in.  While Bioware is cryptic telling us to 'hold on to our saves' , that could just mean that DLC is coming for us to buy so we can continue playing for a little bit longer, NOT that there is a great ending conspiracy.

Fact is, gamers have invested 5 years in this series and are now experiencing a kind of death with the end of Sheperd's story.  We are going through the phases of loss and the first phase is denial.  Especially with such a poor executed ending, it is easier to try and find ways to justify that there is a Bioware ending coming rather than accepting that our journey with Sheperd is over and that the ending gave us no closure.  The end was poorly done, making the wound even deeper.  Players are trying to find meaning in any graphic, sound, word, to try and ease this immense disappointment and so hallucination and indoctrination theories are created.  While I would LOVE to believe that either of these possibilites would be true and that Bioware is just waiting for the perfect time to spring them on us, it is more likely that the studio ran out of time and put out an inferior product.  Maybe even Bioware underestimated the impact that the ME3 universe has had on the players and how attached we all have become and thought the ending was just fine.

I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.  We are grasping at straws because we don't want to say goodbye, especially under these circumstances. 

[prsquared]

Maybe Shepard is fighting death. Control and synthesis are his mind telling him to give up. Destroy is actually his mind reminding him of his goal. It's still a long shot though.

[Aduro]

RABicle wrote...

Oh ****off you ****s with your ending where you run away with Garrus and live happily ever after. That ending would've been such ****ing cop out. This is the ending you maggots deserve.

I didn't really need a happy ending. In fact, I don't think that's what many are complaining about (some though). We wanted a validation that our decisions and choices impacted the galaxy. Good, bad, terrible - ends of all scope and size should have been available, enough to encompass every major action we made through the span of three games.

That's what the games built up towards. That's what Mass Effect was about. That was NOT what we got.

The fact that the relays were destroyed (assuming non Indoctrination hallucination) effectively invalidates the usefulness of any decisions we made - the galaxy is reduced to the same state regardless of anything we did. 

Example: I wanted to see the Quarians rebuilding on my Paragon playthrough. I spent a great deal of effort and emotional investment in that. Not only did I not see what happened to them in the end, it is implied that they are stranded near Earth with no relays. They're nearly 90,000 light years from the home I CHOSE to give back to them, with not nearly enough time or fuel to get back. That choice, and many others, is now invalid. That is why I dislike the ending.

That is why I hope Bioware builds off the indoctrination theory to give us a true ending later.

[Smiley556]

kookie28 wrote...

OP, why didn't the Prothean VI detect indoctrination in Shepard?

Because Shepard wasnt indoctrinated yet at that point. Infact shepard still isnt indoctrinated yet if you pick the destroy option, thats the whole idea. The fact that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard over the course of the game and that he is struggling with it is kind of a given really since Awakening. Trying is the key word here.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Wattoes wrote...

Also the "can you tell me another story" would imply a concusion to the current story.
For some reason, assuming indoctrination, I dont forsee this being realistic.
"In the charge to save the galaxy he failed and got blown to s*** by a lazer"
"SWEET STORY GRANDPA, TELL ME MORE ABOUT HIM"

This.  If the Reapers won through any method, then the scene after the credits makes no sense at all.  That scene pretty much discredits the Indoctrination idea.

[kookie28]

Someone infiltrate Bioware and figure this out please.

These conspiracy theories are insane.

[Ailith Tycane]

Tajah Silver-Sparke wrote...

I get the ending and I too was disappointed by the lack of real choice.  It all boiled down to choosing a color and doing some multiplayer  for my single player game (dont get me started on that).  I hated the ending and was as emotionally affected as you all here.  I read the theories floating around the boards and there are some really creative people out there who should be working for Bioware.  The truth is more likely that EA wanted the game pushed out and Bioware wasn't finished and had to rush it out.  EA is experiencing financial difficulties right now and needs the money that ME3 can bring in.  While Bioware is cryptic telling us to 'hold on to our saves' , that could just mean that DLC is coming for us to buy so we can continue playing for a little bit longer, NOT that there is a great ending conspiracy.

Fact is, gamers have invested 5 years in this series and are now experiencing a kind of death with the end of Sheperd's story.  We are going through the phases of loss and the first phase is denial.  Especially with such a poor executed ending, it is easier to try and find ways to justify that there is a Bioware ending coming rather than accepting that our journey with Sheperd is over and that the ending gave us no closure.  The end was poorly done, making the wound even deeper.  Players are trying to find meaning in any graphic, sound, word, to try and ease this immense disappointment and so hallucination and indoctrination theories are created.  While I would LOVE to believe that either of these possibilites would be true and that Bioware is just waiting for the perfect time to spring them on us, it is more likely that the studio ran out of time and put out an inferior product.  Maybe even Bioware underestimated the impact that the ME3 universe has had on the players and how attached we all have become and thought the ending was just fine.

I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.  We are grasping at straws because we don't want to say goodbye, especially under these circumstances. 

^ This.

[Smiley556]

Aduro wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Aduro wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

I think Bioware understand full well what the players want and expect. Can you for a moment consider the fact that they might be holding out on this epic ending untill AFTER everybody has had a chance to buy/play the game? Again, ME3 isnt released everywhere yet!

I truely, deeply and strongly wish to believe this will happen. Really, I do. But it doesn't mater sense to me, from a business perspective. It would cause a great deal more damage to their profits than any benefit - unless they play it VERY VERY carefully. To be fair, I will give Bioware the benefit of the doubt that they might be brave enough to try, but the situation is RAPIDLY deteriorating. A solution will be needed soon, and their time frame of doing this well is rapidly shrinking.

Looking ahead it might have seemed not so bad, I mean earliest release is 6th of march, last one is 15th of march, thats just over a week. I dont think anyone couldve expected this massive ****storm over the course of a few days as it is happning now.

Eitherway it would be a ballsy gamble, and the thing about ballsy gambles is that they can backfire, maybe that will happen, or maybe the community will settle down when/if the end is released. Time will tell.

True, and a good perspective. However, with how badly this is currently going I would have expected them to cut their losses by now and at least state that there is something more. Not neccesarily something specific, but enough to curb the flames. Also, many of their reactions seem to either be 'no comment' or 'too bad'. The former is hopeful, the latter is damning to the theory.

All we can really say is time will tell at this point =/. hope it's true though, I want satisfaction XD

I do agree, some clear comments would be nice, though I realise they have to think very carefully what they can and cant comment. Mike Gamble did commment with if you know what we are planning, you'd hold on to your copy of ME3, so its not all damning comments.

And yeah, I said I am being patient for now, but my patience isnt unlimited either. Ofcourse I rather have the ending now than later.

[jb1983]

 Except that what you posted isn't original (others have already come up with it, you're copying them) and it's not what the writer's intended. 

If it is, then they left the game incomplete, meaning they expect people to pay to complete the game...which would be pretty nefarious and ruin customer loyalty. 

[K_nthan]

Apparently the only way to defend the ending is to question the intelligence of a large number who apparently 'don't get it'. In this way alone, even not including everything else, Bioware failed.

[Humakt83]

Ailith430 wrote...

This could all very well be true, but if so, the writers should have pointed it out better.

No, it shouldn't be too obvious. I was already almost certain something was amiss when I first played the ending, and that the Cataclyst was trying to trick Shepard. The third (synthetic) choice sounded so much what Reapers were trying to do that it immediately triggered my alarms.

No game has to date ever portrayed to player such great feelings of grief, anger, despair as Mass Effect 3 has. And I love it!

Modifié par Humakt83, 13 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Tiax Rules All]

kookie28 wrote...

OP, why didn't the Prothean VI detect indoctrination in Shepard?

 good question, i would say that at that point Shepard wsa still resisting indoctrination and was no more controlled then anybody else that is on a reaper occupied world. It wasn't until he was nearly killed by the blast by the destroyer, put him in a weakend state (physically and mentally)

Right before the charge, somebody mentions Harbinger is not the way. So now the indoctrination force is in full focus on Shepard. Also Harbinger/catalyst is scared and this is its last effort to stop or convert Shepard. The culminating moment you get to play through real time. How would you choose if you were presented those options in that sublety biased manner? would you choose correctly? would you ever wake up from it?

[Ailith Tycane]

Humakt83 wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

This could all very well be true, but if so, the writers should have pointed it out better.

No, it shouldn't be too obvious...

Yes. Yes it should. If it's not obvious and your audience is confused then you have done something wrong. The games audience is confused, so they did something wrong. Again, I don;t think any of these theories floating around make any real sense, they are too abstract, based on little actual instances in the game. If this was what the writers intended, they would have made it more clear.

[JaKaSa]

Indoctrinated theory makes some sense, but until bioware confirms that theory it is just people over analyzing the end. Even then there is no closure and I still feel like I'm missing last pages of book. And if Shepard was indoctrinated how did they destroy reapers when he did not leave earth to open citadel for crucible? and if they did not destroy them how was that the end? Or were reapers just so sure that they can control him that they give him imaginative option to destroy them that actually can destroy them and their last moment thought was "WTF he really resisted us and chose to use destroy button". That would be most ridiculous fail from so old and advanced AI. Ending that leaves more questions than answers them is not good ending and all that confusion proves that it was fail from bioware's part in any case.

[curufinwe03]

Well, honestly, I think Edwin is right (along with the other indoctrination guys on BSN.)

When Shepard ran into Harbingers red molten-metall beam, we saw a white flash. The same flash we saw every time when he/she had one of his/her kid related nightterros. So I associated the white flash at first with an other dream, maybe a near-death experience. To be honest, I wasn't sure about that when Shepard "came back to live" and walked into the beam to the citadel. But retrospectively it seems possible to me, that it was a dream or a halucination, and the following incidents make more sence when the are seen as metaphors for Shepards fight and life. Anderson, TIM, giving in to the reapers, or choose to destroy them at all cost.

Anyhoo. This is surely a nice theory, but it does not adress the concers of the fans(nor my own). We still don't know the fate of the Galaxy, Earth nor even of Shepards friends and loved ones.
Someone in this thread made a nice example. It's like selling Mass Effect 2 and half of the suicide mission is missing. Even if Bioware is going to patch the missing - conclusive - endings (maybe in a few days?) or will sell them in a future DLC( man, that would be low), they sure hurt there fans now.

If we are right, and the real endings are ready to be downloaded I just have to say:
How very funny. You made your loyal fans look like a bunch of bloody oafs. Way to play with our feelings. How about seeling our homes with fake police tape next time?

If we are wrong and these are actually the "real" endings... well, nothing more to say. We made our point pretty clear.

[Aduro]

Humakt83 wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

This could all very well be true, but if so, the writers should have pointed it out better.

No, it shouldn't be too obvious. I was already almost certain something was amiss when I first played the ending, and that the Cataclyst was trying to trick Shepard. The third (synthetic) choice sounded so much what Reapers were trying to do that it immediately triggered my alarms.

No game has to date ever portrayed to player such great feelings of grief, anger, despair as Mass Effect 3 has. And I love it!

Again, the fact that most people didn't get it at first - that their target audience didn't get it at first - strongly suggests that, if true, they did it poorly. Otherwise, it's like admitting that they intentionally wanted the ending to get past our heads. (Actually, that sounds a tad too strong to me, take it as a suggestion please >_< I don't want to be overbearing in my opinions).

Something I, and others, stated before as well - it took the collective time and effort of many fans to make the indoctrination theory fit. Many ideas were proposed and over ~50 pages the details were slowly hammered out. Even now there is not a complete concensus on what, exactly, falls in and out of the entire theory (besides some very basic assumptions). If they were going for this it should have been obvious enough to feel like a hallucination - instead many felt it was a bizarre, random departure from the game's tone and logic.

[baal676]

I want to thank you Tiax for helping me to understand the ending, i really did not like it at first, there was too mutch that did not make sense to me, you saved my Mass Effect experience by explaining it, so thanks again for setting my mind at ease

[Ailith Tycane]

The fact that people are having to come up with their own theories about the endings, and that it wasn't just obvious if you were paying attention shows that the writing was poor.

Modifié par Ailith430, 13 mars 2012 - 11:22 .