1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightdragon8]

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

this is all MY points writen by someone else why I dislike the ending. I can 100% agree with this.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 14 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[K_Tabris]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Nope, I got it.

...I just didn't like it.

This.

I slept on this theory, stated in the OP.  It makes a lot more sense than anything out there right now.  I am still hesitant to believe that the whole thing happened in Shepard's head, and she wasn't actually on the Citadel, but whatever.  The whole ending is up to interpretation.

If there is a  chance she can be alive in teh destroy ending, it's very slim, but I'll take it.

[seli]

http://i.imgur.com/74Nka.jpg
Just take a look on the codex page of iIndoctrination.
Maybe a few things will sound familiar

[SparkyRich]

I was annoyed, but not for the reasons given. I was annoyed because Bioware is trying to indoctrinate us to play Call of Duty by railroading us into multiplayer in order to get "better" endings.

[Darth Asriel]

OP- ambiguity in an ending is fine and can serve to create a truly impact up ending. One could point to Stephen King's novella The Mist. Not the abomination that was the film. The end of the novella is very vague, with a slight glimmer of hope. King leaves it up to the reader to determine how they want the story to end. The ending of Alfred hitchcock's film The Birds is very similar. It was I believe partly responsible for King choosing his own ending. Both share an ambiguity about the fate of the protagonist and his/her allies. The fate of the world at large is also left rather up in the air. I would consider both to be masterful uses of the form.

ME3 is nowhere near either as far as how they used the form to tell their story.

[viperabyss]

 I sympathize with people's intention to justify Bioware's horrendous ending, and the indoctrination theory does have some limited in-game proofs to support it (like 2). However, there is no reason for Bioware to include that to be the ending of the game. So in the end, Shepard got indoctrinated. We still don't know what happened afterwards, and we have no closure. On top of that, we just spent a good portion of our hard earned dollars for a game that has no ending.
I agree with Jeremy Jahns on this one. Justifying the ending as an indoctrination is just splitting hairs. 

[Zenny Merc]

Buy that to do this, Buy this to do that, The assumed direction in which they are going for a "true" ending, no matter how grand the design might be, is truly hurtful as a fan/consumer. More so because it was a blindside and not what was promised.

[Shepard Wins]

OK. A few things, since I've only just finished my first playthrough of ME3.

Firstly, I want to thank the OP. You have genuinely made me feel better. I was horribly disappointed with the endings and after I've read your theory, which makes perfect sense to me, I was HUGELY relieved. Thank you.

Secondly the whole message about Shepard becoming a legend and that we can explore that with DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT actually makes sense now. I am now hoping for an "epilogue" DLC with REAL ending.

Now...

People paying for a game expect it to be a full game. Selling the ending as DLC would be... let's just say unfair (to avoid less elegant words). Therefore I believe The DLC with the real ending should be FREE for everyone with a registered copy of the game (yeah like that's gonna happen).

[TyDurden13]

People need to stop saying that the Indoctrination theory is "grasping at straws." It's not. It's built on lots of in-game evidence. If you think it's wrong, you have to make a counter-argument using facts, and not just say "lazy writing." Otherwise you're argument holds no H2O.

[Falconee]

Please, dont take this as an offense!

But as so many people are writing here they dislike the ending. I want to know why.

Ok, the ending lets room for clarification what happened with Shepard, Earth etc.
Shouldnt you be happy that there is the possibility of a Mass Effect 4 in future?
It may be not the end of the trilogy because it never was supposed to end it, its a cliffhanger for the future.
Besides that, we got a "Grande Finale", last desperate storm, battle in ruined London. I thought it great.

The ending is unclear in what it means, was it all a dream?
I think, there are a lot of hints that Shepard never reached the citadel after being hit by the beam, that he is dreaming after that.

I LOVED the ending because of that, it tricked me. It was different from all the other endings where they say: "Oh yeah, push this button and you are good, push that and you are bad...yeah you made it, it'll all be fine."
You decide in the dream the fate of Shepard, and are manipulated by doing so.

Thats not a rant. Just tell me why so much here seemed to be pissed.

[Himmelstor]

TyDurden13 wrote...

People need to stop saying that the Indoctrination theory is "grasping at straws." It's not. It's built on lots of in-game evidence. If you think it's wrong, you have to make a counter-argument using facts, and not just say "lazy writing." Otherwise you're argument holds no H2O.

It does have evidence. That does not make it more than a theory. There isn't enough evidence to prove it to everyone's satisfaction or this would not be happening.

Do not present it as irrefutible. It is not. I...have no opinion on the theory one way or another, but still, tovarich, it is, indeed, a theory.

[RowanCF]

Himmelstor wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

People need to stop saying that the Indoctrination theory is "grasping at straws." It's not. It's built on lots of in-game evidence. If you think it's wrong, you have to make a counter-argument using facts, and not just say "lazy writing." Otherwise you're argument holds no H2O.

It does have evidence. That does not make it more than a theory. There isn't enough evidence to prove it to everyone's satisfaction or this would not be happening.

Do not present it as irrefutible. It is not. I...have no opinion on the theory one way or another, but still, tovarich, it is, indeed, a theory.

He isn't saying you should accept it as irrefutable fact, he's just telling people to quit acting like it's just something made up because they're in denial about the ending. With the evidence we have it seems like a very plausible possibility, not just a long shot.

Modifié par RowanCF, 14 mars 2012 - 04:14 .

[kcitee]

http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

[Himmelstor]

RowanCF wrote...

*snip*

He isn't saying you should accept it was irrefutable fact, he's just telling people to quit acting like it's just something made up because they're in denial about the ending. With the evidence we have it seems like a very plausible possibility, not just a long shot.

Apologies. I've read this thread one to the end, and I've seen too many of the theory-supporters speaking as though it's a confirmed fact. Just jumping in too fast, it seems.

[Mr Indivisible]

The worst part of all this, if the ending had been a decent ending, most would be happy and the current supporters would still be happy.

[Icetea07]

i get what you are saying, but don't trick me. That insults my ability to think for myself. Just kill my shepard or don't. Save the galaxy or don't. DON'T MAKE MY CHOICES POINTLESS

[MortalEngines]

RowanCF wrote...
He isn't saying you should accept it as irrefutable fact, he's just telling people to quit acting like it's just something made up because they're in denial about the ending. With the evidence we have it seems like a very plausible possibility, not just a long shot.

He is saying it's irrefutable fact though. He's even telling us we simply don't 'get it' (the ending). We do get it, we also get that there is a unproven theory. So why is he presenting the theory like it's the thing we must 'get' about the ending if it is simply a theory? He says with 100% certainity that DLC will be launched. If this isn't stating it as fact what is?

Am I denying it's plausible? No. I'm denying it's infallible fact or that it makes anything any better. 

[MajesticJazz]

Esquin wrote...

No. You're wrong.

I get it. I just wanted some kind of closure. You're ignoring the issue. We just wanted to know what happened to our galaxy after we made our decision. Thats all.

Exactly, I think a lot of us could careless if our Shepard died or became a Reaper himself. We just wanted to know how our past decisions came ot closure.

What happened to the Salarians, the Turians, the Krogan, the Asari.

What happened to our LI and how did he/she take the events regarding Shepard. 

I do not know if you played Dragon Age: Origins, but once you beat that game, you get a nice [text based] montage as to how the land of Ferelden recovers/continues on after the Blight/Darkspawn battle. It really brings closure to everything. But with Mass Effect 3, that doesn't happen.

[Zofiya]

Falconee wrote...

Shouldnt you be happy that there is the possibility of a Mass Effect 4 in future?
It may be not the end of the trilogy because it never was supposed to end it, its a cliffhanger for the future.

BioWare spent a lot of time telling us that we should be prepared, because ME3 would be the end of Shepard's story. So no, I don't want there to be a possibility of ME4. This was supposed to be the end. It was supposed to be glorious, not confusing and hopeless. I want an intelligible resolution to the story, not a "buy DLC!" cliffhanger.

(In any case, they could easily do the next ME trilogy without a cliffhanger ending for Shepard. So that is irrelevant.)

[wrdnshprd]

you also cant get 4k EMS without multiplayer, which goes against what bioware is advertising (just look at the sticky).

[Creston918]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I am making this post in an honest attempt to help people understand and appreciate the endings more.

...

FINAL NOTE
I love this ending because of what Bioware did. They actually indoctrinated their own customers. They made and ending where you the player play through a real-time indoctrination of not just your character but of the player. They presented the ending in such a way that you had to fight indoctrination right along with Shepard. The game actively tries to fool you and manipulate your decisions away from the "best" and ONLY true ending, this is no typical ending by any shot and they did this KNOWING that their fan base might not understand it and take what they showed us at face value. Those people will never get why their ending doesn't make sense and will be angry unnecessarily. For those like myself though. I feel like it's a twist worthy of the best games/movies out there and that some ambiguity is better than the spelled out epilogue slideshow at the end.

Very detailed post. thumbs up!
If Bioware is smart, they'll take what you wrote and go "yeah! YEAH! That's what we meant!!!"

[Firmijn]

Tiax Rules All wrote...
a lot of stuff..

You, my friend, are making sure that from tonight on, I will finally be able to sleep peacefully again.

thanks


EDIT: The first time I chose the synthesis option. In hindsight it makes my "I support Saren for ME3" signature kind of ironic...

Modifié par Firmijn, 14 mars 2012 - 06:07 .

[GarrusVFan]

 OP: Ya know what?  I could buy this, it makes sense, and it fills a lot of the plot-holes.  Props to you sir, for taking the time to write all of that out and really thinking everything through and possessing the capability to see past what we were given.
IF...and I stress the "IF", this is how it actually is, and Bioware actually planned it out like this, (rather than you coming up with this brilliant idea or whoever came up with the original idea and Bioware steals it and calls it their own) then it's brilliant on a few levels, and I will accept it, so long as they have EVERY INTENTION of coming out with a DLC that fully concludes the story and gives us the happy ending we worked for, (or the sh*t ending certain players chose because they were renegade and they hated the story and just liked the game for the firefights) then I would be happy with being part of (possibly) the biggest bait&switch in gaming history.
One thing though... When you rush the beam to the citadel, you are not yet indoctrinated, correct?  If everyone dies, then you get to play the wonderfully stupid game of, "Which crew members do I hate the most?" Unless, they managed to survive, same as Sheperd. (Which is fine with me because for all intents and purposes they are just as "strong" as Sheperd, and Sheperd stated it in the game, the only reason He/She has been able to keep going at times is because he/she has such great friends.)

But, there is also the possibility that you are giving Bioware waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit, and you, like many of us are reaching, grabbing for straw in an attempt to apply reason to the atrocity that we witnessed that is the Mass Effect 3 ending.

[ecarden]

Even if that were the case---there's now no ending at all, despite this being the end of Shepard's story.

It's like they cut off the last chapter of a book, printed 'The End' after the preceding chapter then went:

What do you mean you want an actual ending?

[Zofiya]

ecarden wrote...

Even if that were the case---there's now no ending at all, despite this being the end of Shepard's story.

It's like they cut off the last chapter of a book, printed 'The End' after the preceding chapter then went:

What do you mean you want an actual ending?

This is pretty much my problem with indoctrination theory. It's not that I can't see the logic behind it, it's that if it is true... then there really isn't an ending at all. Not even a shoddily-written one.