1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Tiax Rules All]

mhendon wrote...

OH MY GOD.  I love you.  It makes perfect sense.  When I read the title of your topic i thought it sounded really pretentious (sorry) but after reading what you had to say, not only does it explain all the weirdness with the whole final Citadel level, but it really does make me appreciate the ending better.  I totally hated it, but after this...if thats the way it really is then the ending is sublime.  However, at some point I think we do need to see the truth and really find out how our decisions and our companions turn out.  Until then, the ending will feel incomplete, imo.

I changed the thread title... dont think it will help though
I think its just a natural feeling peole have of not wanting to admit that they MIGHT be wrong or confused.
once they can get past that, then can start the healing process

[Tiax Rules All]

Elite Midget wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Tiax Rules All   I dont think you get it. This "kid" (actual reaper) has been on the citedal from the start. If thats is the case then why did he need the keepers to open the relay in ME1?

Since this "kid" controls the reapers why then did sovereign need to contact the keepers to open the relay if he is controled by catalyst kid?

im sorry but i cant debate that.

the "kid" is never on the citadel, neither is shepard. im not sure where your info is coming from... did you read the OP. I personally feel like its a common courtesy to do some before telling people thier wrong. and if you did.. well read it again. slower...

Again you berate others, are you seriously hoping people will just lay down and take abuse and go with youtr line of thinking just like that?

im sorry?

lets talk then. tell me why im wrong. I promise i will read it openly, but if it doesn't adress anything i said in the op and doesnt make sense in general.. that what am i to do.. he called me out but his side of the arguement was honestly unitelligble to me.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Where my deeds have lead me]

you are the a part of the 3% that actually like it congrats now then I can leave this and know your opinion will make no difference because it is drowned out by the majority

[Tiax Rules All]

Where my deeds have lead me wrote...

you are the a part of the 3% that actually like it congrats now then I can leave this and know your opinion will make no difference because it is drowned out by the majority

came in to hit and run with "you like it, i dont, f-U"

this is the absolute lowest form of trolling

[KevShep]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

im sorry but i cant debate that.

the "kid" is never on the citadel, neither is shepard. im not sure where your info is coming from... did you read the OP. I personally feel like its a common courtesy to do some before telling people thier wrong. and if you did.. well read it again. slower...

How can you tell me that Iam wrong and that you cant debate that when your own assumptions are not proven right?

[KevShep]

You said that shepard is indoctrinated, but what your saying about what is happening to him is not indoctrination. Indoctrination is a process that makes you think the choices your making are your own but are instead the reapers, not hallucinations. There is another form that they use and its direct control (this is what TIM does to you).

[Tiax Rules All]

KevShep wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

im sorry but i cant debate that.

the "kid" is never on the citadel, neither is shepard. im not sure where your info is coming from... did you read the OP. I personally feel like its a common courtesy to do some before telling people thier wrong. and if you did.. well read it again. slower...

How can you tell me that Iam wrong and that you cant debate that when your own assumptions are not proven right?

they are not proof but they are backed up by game references, quotes and things we can actually draw from the game.

I spent alot of time wrting out the OP here. ONLY to explain myself and indoc theory.
http://social.biowar...index/9947830/1
not because i feel smarter then you.

I want to start over. if you want to re-state your side again and how im wrong, i will listen

[KevShep]

Tiax Rules All wrote...



they are not proof but they are backed up by game references, quotes and things we can actually draw from the game.

I spent alot of time wrting out the OP here. ONLY to explain myself and indoc theory.
http://social.biowar...index/9947830/1
not because i feel smarter then you.

I want to start over. if you want to re-state your side again and how im wrong, i will listen

Iam not saying your wrong because I dont have the answer ether. I just wanted to help build a concensus on the subject.

Modifié par KevShep, 15 mars 2012 - 06:44 .

[Tiax Rules All]

KevShep wrote...

You said that shepard is indoctrinated, but what your saying about what is happening to him is not indoctrination. Indoctrination is a process that makes you think the choices your making are your own but are instead the reapers, not hallucinations. There is another form that they use and its direct control (this is what TIM does to you).

hes not indoctrinated. hes fighting an indoctrination attempt at the end of the game after he was weakend phsically and mentally by the destroyer beam. INSIDE of his half dead hallucinations, the indoctrination attempt takes over. that is what the choices are really about. none of the described results of the choices are actually what it is about, its all an illusion for the choice shepard is making. the fight over his mind. its not control, synth or destroy, its make a deal with reapers (indoc, dont wake up) or resist them (wake up)

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Virgl]

Right now its a fifty/fifty thing. There's good evidence for indoctrination yet it still has holes. Someone had to activate the crucible/citadel/catalyst (physically, not mentally). So for a real firing of the crucible shepard would have needed to be on the citadel, unless it was all a mental battle in his mind. If in a month we get a DLC and we start off in the rubble and people are still fighting the reapers we will then be informed that we were indoctrinated by BioWare and Harbinger. If BioWare appeases the many upset fans due to a ****ty ending that wasn't indoctrination, then the indoctrination theory will be smashed. Only time will tell.

Modifié par Virgl, 15 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[KevShep]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hes not indoctrinated. hes fighting an indoctrination attempt at the end of the game after he was weakend phsically and mentally by the destroyer beam. INSIDE of his half dead hallucinations, the indoctrination attempt takes over. that is what the choices are really about. none of the described results of the choices are actually what it is about, its all an illusion for the choice shepard is making. the fight over his mind. its not control, synth or destroy, its make a deal with reapers (indoc, dont wake up) or resist them (wake up)

I read it. If he is indoctrinated then did we lose?

[Tiax Rules All]

KevShep wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hes not indoctrinated. hes fighting an indoctrination attempt at the end of the game after he was weakend phsically and mentally by the destroyer beam. INSIDE of his half dead hallucinations, the indoctrination attempt takes over. that is what the choices are really about. none of the described results of the choices are actually what it is about, its all an illusion for the choice shepard is making. the fight over his mind. its not control, synth or destroy, its make a deal with reapers (indoc, dont wake up) or resist them (wake up)

I read it. If he is indoctrinated then did we lose?

There is nothing that says the DLC cant start with fighting off indoctrination some more at the start for those people. Maybe you wake up. an companion notices your different, you realize you have been duped and now you have to resist even harder to get the job done.

detroyers, just wake up and proceed with dlc

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[HK-90210]

One question, OP. Pardon me if this has been covered before:

If we accept that this whole indoctrination theory is true(And believe me, I'd LOVE to! It would be so very epic!) Then how is it that the more EMS Shepard gets, the more choices he gets, and both of the new choices are the 'bad' ones from Shepard's POV. So in effect, the better you do at the game, the greater the chance you have at failing. Does it have something to do with the Reapers considering Shepard a greater threat?

It's the only serious flaw I've seen in your theory here. Other than that, very solid.

[Enraged Sympathizer]

No I get, honestly I can understand as well as appriate the gamble state of mind that a pebbles greater then a boulder in this instance but with all the plot holes, unanswered questions, etc, there just bad endings. They simply do not belong and it's because I understand them that I say this.

[Tiax Rules All]

CastonFolarus wrote...

One question, OP. Pardon me if this has been covered before:

If we accept that this whole indoctrination theory is true(And believe me, I'd LOVE to! It would be so very epic!) Then how is it that the more EMS Shepard gets, the more choices he gets, and both of the new choices are the 'bad' ones from Shepard's POV. So in effect, the better you do at the game, the greater the chance you have at failing. Does it have something to do with the Reapers considering Shepard a greater threat?

It's the only serious flaw I've seen in your theory here. Other than that, very solid.

if the 2nd part of my theory is correct and the real ending is coming in dlc form. then there is nothing to say that they wont have multiple BEGGININGS and well as multiple ends.

Maybe Shep failed resiting indoc so now hes got to deal with a whole set of new issues in the DLC

[Tiax Rules All]

Enraged Sympathizer wrote...

No I get, honestly I can understand as well as appriate the gamble state of mind that a pebbles greater then a boulder in this instance but with all the plot holes, unanswered questions, etc, there just bad endings. They simply do not belong and it's because I understand them that I say this.

what holes were not filled by reading the OP? I would accept the challange and pit the theory against it.

[HK-90210]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

One question, OP. Pardon me if this has been covered before:

If we accept that this whole indoctrination theory is true(And believe me, I'd LOVE to! It would be so very epic!) Then how is it that the more EMS Shepard gets, the more choices he gets, and both of the new choices are the 'bad' ones from Shepard's POV. So in effect, the better you do at the game, the greater the chance you have at failing. Does it have something to do with the Reapers considering Shepard a greater threat?

It's the only serious flaw I've seen in your theory here. Other than that, very solid.

if the 2nd part of my theory is correct and the real ending is coming in dlc form. then there is nothing to say that they wont have multiple BEGGININGS and well as multiple ends.

Maybe Shep failed resiting indoc so now hes got to deal with a whole set of new issues in the DLC

Hmmmmmmm.......your avatar seems to be most fitting, good sir. If this is all true, Bioware will have officially become the most DIABOLICAL organization on the planet. Bar none.

The Stonemasons? The Illuminati? Facebook? They will all pale in comparison to the evil, treacherous snake that is Bioware.

DAMN I hope you're right!

[Tiax Rules All]

CastonFolarus wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

One question, OP. Pardon me if this has been covered before:

If we accept that this whole indoctrination theory is true(And believe me, I'd LOVE to! It would be so very epic!) Then how is it that the more EMS Shepard gets, the more choices he gets, and both of the new choices are the 'bad' ones from Shepard's POV. So in effect, the better you do at the game, the greater the chance you have at failing. Does it have something to do with the Reapers considering Shepard a greater threat?

It's the only serious flaw I've seen in your theory here. Other than that, very solid.

if the 2nd part of my theory is correct and the real ending is coming in dlc form. then there is nothing to say that they wont have multiple BEGGININGS and well as multiple ends.

Maybe Shep failed resiting indoc so now hes got to deal with a whole set of new issues in the DLC

Hmmmmmmm.......your avatar seems to be most fitting, good sir. If this is all true, Bioware will have officially become the most DIABOLICAL organization on the planet. Bar none.

The Stonemasons? The Illuminati? Facebook? They will all pale in comparison to the evil, treacherous snake that is Bioware.

DAMN I hope you're right!

thats ALL im sayin.   I think when the series REALLY wraps up, people WILL love Mass Effect. maybe even more now. Bioware indoctrinated thier customers and it was great!, will be the headlnes.. quote me on that

[Spanking Machine]

The problem with this explanation it that, if it is true, it means we never got to see the end of the story. What kind of ending to an epic story is that, just... stopping before the conclusion.

[Himmelstor]

Rawgrim wrote...

Disprove Tiax, and the rest, with facts from the game. Facts that utterly destroys the indoctrination theory. Best way to do it. allthough I don`t think it can be done.

...I still have no opinion, but this is a theory compared to the ending we have confirmed.
The burden of proof is on him (and you.)

Again, i don't really have an opinion on this theory (perhaps because the ending is still insufficient as an ending if the theory is in fact true) and therefore, argue away, I will watch.

But do not forget that this is a theory, and the burden of proof is firmly on the supporters of the theory.

Modifié par Himmelstor, 15 mars 2012 - 07:12 .

[Meltemph]

Heh... Vintage Tiax. I agree largely with this give or take minor differences, but those disagreeing with you...are not really disagreeing just saying, no-u, which is odd.

[Meltemph]

...I still have no opinion, but this is a theory compared to the ending we have confirmed.
The burden of proof is on him (and you.)

Again, i don't really have an opinion on this theory (perhaps because the ending is still insufficient as an ending if the theory is in fact true) and therefore, argue away, i will watch.

But do not forget that this is a theory, and the burden of proof is firmly on the supporters of the theory. 

ACtually we dont have a "confrimed" meaning behind the ending at all, hell they even admited they wanted peopel to talk about what it means.  So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the ending we have confirmed".  We have the ending we SEE, but no, no ending meanings are confirmed, at all.

[Tiax Rules All]

Spanking Machine wrote...

The problem with this explanation it that, if it is true, it means we never got to see the end of the story. What kind of ending to an epic story is that, just... stopping before the conclusion.

ME3 dlc is still technically ME3

so "the end of Sheps story is ME3" is still true.

BIOWARE EXAMPLE!

Baldurs Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall Expantion..
they ended the series and story with and expation pack!

[HK-90210]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

thats ALL im sayin.   I think when the series REALLY wraps up, people WILL love Mass Effect. maybe even more now. Bioware indoctrinated thier customers and it was great!, will be the headlnes.. quote me on that

Quoted for truth.

For the first time since I saw the endings, I have hope for ME3's legacy. I wasn't all that upset about the endings, but I hated the idea that Bioware screwed up the greatest scifi saga(IMO) of our time. This theory, and just how deliciously evil it is, gives me hope.

If they follow through with this, the only things they would need to do to make ME3 as perfect as humanly possible would be to fix(well, to be more accurate, add) Jacob's ME3 romance and/or make James a LI. That would be pretty much it.

So Bioware *clears throat, shaves head and sits in captain's chair* make it so.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 15 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[Meltemph]

Spanking Machine wrote...

The problem with this explanation it that, if it is true, it means we never got to see the end of the story. What kind of ending to an epic story is that, just... stopping before the conclusion.

Books/Comics/Movies/TV there are plenty of mediums that put you in suspence and keep you guessing, only to be explained by the next itteration.  In this case it will be DLC.  This is not a new tactic, only new(fairly) to video games