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I think (alot) of those people who hate the endings don't actually "get it" I want to help you all (not pretentious)


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#1151
Britcorp

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

mahlerbone wrote...

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

If this is true, it's like selling Mass Effect 2 and then telling everyone they'll have to buy the actual Collector Base mission as DLC.


exactly. its a terrible idea for a company to make the player buy an ending


Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall Expantion pack

The series that made Bioware did it, this is the same exact thing


It's not like that at all.

BG 2 was a sequel.

Throne of Bhaal was an expansion.

Mass Effect 3 is a game with no ending.

They want you to pay for the ending. Probably $10-20

#1152
Tiax Rules All

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thoreauscabin wrote...

If Shepard was never on the Citadel, and the 3 choices offered only determine Shepard's mental state, what happened to the Reapers?

It's seems like your explanation has a lot of disconnect between what  happened in Shepard's mind (supposedly) and what happened outside of it.


dlc

#1153
Deventh

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

thoreauscabin wrote...

If Shepard was never on the Citadel, and the 3 choices offered only determine Shepard's mental state, what happened to the Reapers?

It's seems like your explanation has a lot of disconnect between what  happened in Shepard's mind (supposedly) and what happened outside of it.


dlc

And how exactly can you call that an ending? It seems like we got 95% of the game and the other 5% was cut off when Shepard woke up in the rubble.

#1154
Jerrybnsn

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And with all the Game Reviewers high scores for ME3, they don't represent your avearge game consumer that is monetarily invested in the game, since the reviewers have all the dlc given to them and can plug into multiplayer as part of their job.

So the user score of 3.5 represents the real world of gaming, and (if this indoctrination theory is true) Bioware just pushed the envelope to far by making dlc and multiplayer part of the requirement to enjoy one of their games.

That's got to be the worst marketing disaster ever done in the gaming industry.

#1155
Tiax Rules All

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Deventh wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

thoreauscabin wrote...

If Shepard was never on the Citadel, and the 3 choices offered only determine Shepard's mental state, what happened to the Reapers?

It's seems like your explanation has a lot of disconnect between what  happened in Shepard's mind (supposedly) and what happened outside of it.


dlc

And how exactly can you call that an ending? It seems like we got 95% of the game and the other 5% was cut off when Shepard woke up in the rubble.


you will feel better after you play it.

#1156
Tiax Rules All

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Britcorp wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

mahlerbone wrote...

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

If this is true, it's like selling Mass Effect 2 and then telling everyone they'll have to buy the actual Collector Base mission as DLC.


exactly. its a terrible idea for a company to make the player buy an ending


Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall Expantion pack

The series that made Bioware did it, this is the same exact thing


It's not like that at all.

BG 2 was a sequel.

Throne of Bhaal was an expansion.

Mass Effect 3 is a game with no ending.

They want you to pay for the ending. Probably $10-20



the ending of Baldurs gate 2, at 1:10 on..
how is this not making you pay for the ending.. they released an expantion pack to finish the series.

ending on cliffhanger..

its been done BY THEM before..

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 08:28 .


#1157
soundhole

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 Indocrination: A hypothesis stitched together with weak threads and cherry picked examples.  Glenn Beck would be proud.  
First, I would like to apologize if my points here have been covered.  I'm not reading 45 pages to get the whole conversation.  I have a job and stuff.

Why does it matter that the destroy option is red?  My character was a sociopathic cadaver-junky.  Most of my rep points were renegade.  Why didn't the Catalyst, being all up inside my mind and dicking with my subconscious, change the colors to manipulate my personality type?  Why wouldn't it make the synthesis option red for me, since I'll click on any renegade option?  You're assuming, like everyone else who plays with some sickly good paragon character on their first play-through, that the paragon options are the default, or even most rational decision to make in any given situation.  This point only reflects your gameplay bias and is inadmissible as evidence.

A transforming space station doesn't itself indicate a dream or illusion.  This is a sci-fi story, and the main enemies are Lovecraftian machinations that sleep in "dark space" for 50,000 years.  Shifting walls isn't so hard to believe, and remember that in ME2, Anderson noted how amazingly fast the Citadel was being put back together.  Restructuring itself is obviously not such a difficult task.  Likewise, Anderson no doubt heard about Shepard's description of the Collector base.  The Collectors, using Reaper technology and being trained by the Reapers to harvest organic life, will undoubtably make their surroundings look the inside of a Reaper base (which, as it turns out, the Citadel is).  The radio chatter you hear can be chalked up to no one being able to count the casualties.  While the ending is vague enough that your interpretation is possible, they are not themselves sufficient to conclude that Shep was delusional, dreaming or indoctrinated.  

Conversations with Anderson, TIM and Hackett can have many interpretations.  That they lend credibility to the indoctrination hypothesis is non-sequitur.  Your interpretation of the boy's significance is outright impossible.  What was clear to me through the game (though arguable itself, I suppose) was that the boy represented Shep's anxiety about not being able to save everyone.  The dream sequences would feature more and more of his fallen friends' voices, as well as the shadows of countless deaths he has had to cause to win the war.  This theme is repeated throughout the whole series, but the loss of the boy he couldn't save on Earth clearly had an emotional impact on Shep.  The dreams were about his fear of not being able to fulfill his duty to protect the galaxy.  Your interpretation, that Shep's subconscious was somehow aware of the boy's role in the future, opens even more plot holes than it closes.  Why did the Catalyst choose that particular form for Shep, especially if his subconscious has been telling him that "no matter what happens you will get burned by trusting the kid" [OP]?  I mean, it seems like the most counterproductive form to take, if the Catalyst wanted to manipulate Shep.  And how does Shep's subconscious know to not trust the boy?  What did the boy do to deserve this mistrust?  Order the Reaper to shoot down his shuttle?  Unless you have a lot of subtext from the game to back your assertion up, the subconscious angle is abject lunacy.    

And so the whole house of cards that is the "Indoctrination hypothesis" falls down.  Now, it may be that Bioware comes out later and says, "Yeah, that's totally right. Shepard was indoctrinated alright", but that would be a cop-out.  There is nothing in the story that should lead anyone to such a conclusion.  The ending simply doesn't make any sense, not one bit of it.  Given this, Occam's Razor dictates that the reason for the ending sucking so bad isn't a complicated or hard to justify dream sequence, but poor decisions from the company.  Bioware failed its customers, plain and simple.  They are either too outright incompetent to finish the story, or they feel they have some crafty business scheme in delaying a non-ridiculous ending, which makes them terrible story-tellers.  

This whole thing is silly.  

#1158
Tiax Rules All

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soundhole wrote...

 Indocrination: A hypothesis stitched together with weak threads and cherry picked examples.  Glenn Beck would be proud.  

...

This whole thing is silly.  


we shall see whos silly

#1159
Bowie Hawkins

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

JasonTan87 wrote...

What if it's just a ****ty ending anyway?


you mean like hypothetically?
because Bioware ended the Bhall Spawn's story in Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall expantion
and that series MADE Bioware


They also made Knights of the Old Republic 2.

#1160
Gallron395

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Ya indoctrination is a possible explanation.

Thing is, it explains the big huge fact that makes the whole ending open to interpretation.

You see Shepard wake up in rubble.

Explain it any way you want. But there's only one way Shepard could wake up in London rubble. He never left.

#1161
Tiax Rules All

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Bowie Hawkins wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

JasonTan87 wrote...

What if it's just a ****ty ending anyway?


you mean like hypothetically?
because Bioware ended the Bhall Spawn's story in Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall expantion
and that series MADE Bioware


They also made Knights of the Old Republic 2.


lol @ you. no they didnt it was Obsidian

Bioware made the good one

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 08:37 .


#1162
Meltemph

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Bowie Hawkins wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

JasonTan87 wrote...

What if it's just a ****ty ending anyway?


you mean like hypothetically?
because Bioware ended the Bhall Spawn's story in Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall expantion
and that series MADE Bioware


They also made Knights of the Old Republic 2.


http://en.wikipedia...._The_Sith_Lords 

Umm...

#1163
HK-90210

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Don't know if you guys have seen this yets, so I'll just leave this here.......

http://i.imgur.com/xjXdX.png

Might be bull****, might not. But hey, sounds good if true.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 15 mars 2012 - 08:39 .


#1164
Tiax Rules All

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CastonFolarus wrote...

Don't know if you guys have seen this yets, so I'll just leave this here.......

http://i.imgur.com/xjXdX.png

Might be bull****, might not. But hey, sounds good if true.


so because he said its true. im right here... geez..

DO I HAVE TO WRITE IN ALL CAPS?!?!

/joke  
i been saying this for a while now

#1165
thoreauscabin

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soundhole wrote...

 Indocrination: A hypothesis stitched together with weak threads and cherry picked examples.  Glenn Beck would be proud.  
. . .

This whole thing is silly.  


A+ post. I wish all the Bioware apologists would read this. Probably wouldn't do much for the smug "you just don't get it" crowd, though.


Tiax Rules All wrote...

we shall see whos silly


Really? That's all you have? Great job defending your weak argument. I know you were just trying to come up with an explanation, but face it -- Bioware dropped the ball. No amount of DLC or patches is going to fix how badly they ruined this series.

Modifié par thoreauscabin, 15 mars 2012 - 08:47 .


#1166
DragonRageGT

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

Multiplayer is only for those that subscribe to XboxGold. For $5 a month, I could get a few second cutscene that shows Shepard taking a breath from the rubble, instead of watching Joker crash land on a planet? I think I'll stick with my ****ty ending and just lump ME3 as a disappointment like the majority.


If I got this it, all that MP does is making it easier for us to have the "best" ending, which is, the breath scene beforwe the credits (Shep lives), by making Galactic Readiness up to 100%.

For those who won't touch MP, the Galactic Readiness is fixed at 50%. So, in my first run I had 7001 TMS. (And I did basically 99% of all that could be done to increase assets on SP but I did play MP up to 100%, my EMS was also 7001)

If I had not played MP and had 50% Readiness, my EMS would be 3500. I would not be able to have the "best" ending. But I noticed that on a NG+, items upgrades are unlocked up to level 10 (X) which they are absolutely not on the first playthrough of a New or Imported Shepard. (maximum is level 5 (V)).

I am assuming that to reach a high enough EMS only with the Single Player, we need more than just one playthrough. We need a NG+ to have it and then, the "best" ending as it is now. It is just like ME1 where we can never have a level 60 Shepard on the first playthrough. We need at least two to get that. (on ME3 I finished my first imported Shepard run at level 58 but he was 60 when I started a NG+. I haven't advanced in it enough to notice it TTS and EMS are indeed increased in a NG+ but I have a strong feeling it is. People who have finished a NG+ can confirm it or dismiss it.)

(And such a DLC as proposed in the OP would most likely be for free to all legit owners. And I am sure that 100% of ME3 would crowd the servers to get their copy of it.)

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 15 mars 2012 - 09:02 .


#1167
Bowie Hawkins

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Meltemph wrote...

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

They also made Knights of the Old Republic 2.


http://en.wikipedia...._The_Sith_Lords 


Ah, right; the years ince KOtOR2 came out and the similarities of the endings of the games clouded my memory for a moment there.

#1168
DragonRageGT

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thoreauscabin wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

we shall see whos silly


Really? That's all you have? Great job defending your weak argument. I know you were just trying to come up with an explanation, but face it -- Bioware dropped the ball. No amount of DLC or patches is going to fix how badly they ruined this series.


1) Tiax's theory in OP makes all the sense in the world. It doesn't need defending. It needs happening only.

2) I don't think BW would still be having talks about how we don't know what's in store for ME3 or how we don't have the complete data if there wasn't more to it.

https://twitter.com/...967731070799872

https://photos-1.dro...816400/89ff69e/

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 15 mars 2012 - 09:09 .


#1169
soundhole

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

soundhole wrote...

 Indocrination: A hypothesis stitched together with weak threads and cherry picked examples.  Glenn Beck would be proud.  

...

This whole thing is silly.  


we shall see whos silly


I hope that means I can expect an actual rebuttle from you.

thoreauscabin wrote...

A+ post. I wish all the Bioware apologists would read this. Probably wouldn't do much for the smug "you just don't get it" crowd, though.


I'm glad it makes sense to someone other than me.  I often type too fast for my own good and I'm a horrible proof-reader :unsure:

#1170
soundhole

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DragonRageGT wrote...


1) Tiax's theory in OP makes all the sense in the world. It doesn't need defending. It needs happening only.


It makes no sense to rational people.  Read my post above.  

Also, "It needs happening only" is liable to give me an aneurysm.  Do you regularly believe things you can't justify?

#1171
DragonRageGT

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soundhole wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...


1) Tiax's theory in OP makes all the sense in the world. It doesn't need defending. It needs happening only.


It makes no sense to rational people.  Read my post above.  

Also, "It needs happening only" is liable to give me an aneurysm.  Do you regularly believe things you can't justify?


I read the whole of it. You prefer to believe that a company that made great games and perhaps a couple not so great, can never do it again. I prefer to believe in the creativity of the human mind.

Not every great (if any) band has a discography without s***y albums but nothing prevents them from having their best album yet after a not-so-good-one.

And if you look for plot holes in works of fantasy/sci-fi/fiction, whatever medium, you will find it in 100% of them. So let's just start with ME1. There would be no way for the Reapers be stopped in ME1. That is the biggest plot hole in the whole series. We only had ME2 and ME3 because of a huge plot hole and you can see it anywhere in ME1 following its storyline.

It doesn't mean it is a bad story or anything. The greatest story of all will still have plot holes in it.

#1172
Jerrybnsn

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I think they've already ruined the ME3 game, regardless if they give you the final ending in dlc for free. Only 10% of people who purchase games will bother with dlc. So you've already condemned the game to the majority of consumers. You only get two weeks to make an impression and that's it.

#1173
soundhole

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DragonRageGT wrote...

I read the whole of it. You prefer to believe that a company that made great games and perhaps a couple not so great, can never do it again. I prefer to believe in the creativity of the human mind.

Not every great (if any) band has a discography without s***y albums but nothing prevents them from having their best album yet after a not-so-good-one.

And if you look for plot holes in works of fantasy/sci-fi/fiction, whatever medium, you will find it in 100% of them. So let's just start with ME1. There would be no way for the Reapers be stopped in ME1. That is the biggest plot hole in the whole series. We only had ME2 and ME3 because of a huge plot hole and you can see it anywhere in ME1 following its storyline.

It doesn't mean it is a bad story or anything. The greatest story of all will still have plot holes in it.


That's not my assertion, nor do I prefer to believe it.  The evidence simply points to bad writing, either due to incompetence or the desire to get more money out of us somehow.  The OP's argument is ridiculous, and unless you have specific refutations, that stands as a simple fact of logic.  Nothing they pointed out necessarily points to the indoctrination interpretation as being legitimate.  

The end isn't bad because there's plot holes, the end is bad because it is nothing but one, giant plot hole.  It.  Makes.  No.  Sense.  The OP's explanation makes even less.  

The story was great, and I used to recommend it to everyone I met.  The ending was such complete crap that it ruined the whole universe for me.

#1174
Claym0re

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Deventh wrote...

Why did this thread go so far? Threads like this are exactly what BioWare want so they won't give us the thing we want (most of us)


Cause the creator of the thread quotes every second comment. ITS A TRAP!

#1175
thoreauscabin

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DragonRageGT wrote...

I read the whole of it. You prefer to believe that a company that made great games and perhaps a couple not so great, can never do it again. I prefer to believe in the creativity of the human mind.

Not every great (if any) band has a discography without s***y albums but nothing prevents them from having their best album yet after a not-so-good-one.

And if you look for plot holes in works of fantasy/sci-fi/fiction, whatever medium, you will find it in 100% of them. So let's just start with ME1. There would be no way for the Reapers be stopped in ME1. That is the biggest plot hole in the whole series. We only had ME2 and ME3 because of a huge plot hole and you can see it anywhere in ME1 following its storyline.

It doesn't mean it is a bad story or anything. The greatest story of all will still have plot holes in it.


First, no one is saying Bioware is incapable of making another good game. Of course they could. But with the cacafest that was DA2 and now this, it's really turns a lot of people off. I know I'm not the only person who from now on will thoroughly read every review of a Bioware game before making any hasty purchasing decisions.

Second, no one is knocking Bioware for having a few tiny plot holes. The heavy criticism is coming for the lame, boring, uncreative and unsatisfying ending. Period.

Modifié par thoreauscabin, 15 mars 2012 - 09:31 .