1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Tiax Rules All]

Archonsg wrote...

So ya, your hallucination / indoctrination theory does start to sound better and better all the time. But even so, it meant that it had be right at the point when Shepard and squad were hit by the beam and everything that comes after is a "lie" / dream / hallucination... whatever.

Given that was the ending given to us, it IS A BAD ending. No matter how you want to call it.

We don't have to come up with excuses for Bioware or their writers and we certainly do not need to come up with convoluted what ifs to make sense of what we saw.
What really made me mad is that right up to London and the events that followed, Mass Effect 3 was a beautifully crafted game and more then met expectations. But to finally cap it off with poor and shoddy writing at the end? Where choices given to you are contrary to what your character would do, where "all your decisions leading to this point ...(effects your outcome!) didn't matter.. is just wrong.

you cant fully appreciate THIS ending till the REAL ending comes out. 

When Bioware releases the ednign DLC (say its free) then why bother hating this ending at all. You are hating on a FALSE ending that was pt there on purpose and not because of bad writing. Bad marketing? maybe. Bad fanbase? can be seen like that. but not bad writing.

[Captain_Black]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

If I don't have the full picture it's because they didn't give it to me. Now I paid for it and I should have it, but since I don't I think I will opt out of buying anything from them for a bit.

what if the ending DLC is free? which it likely will be.
whats the difference really?

I think as i said in an earlier post - we've not played the end, the player is in London and the DLC will be payable or free.. who knows, but the game is not complete yet.. Clever move by Bioware

[Stooneagree]

I'm, actually feeling quite optimistic about this whole thing now, at first I was really depressed but I've realized later that I didn't get all hints that actually points towards everything after harby's end beam is not really happening, and how the child might be a way of harby to shepard misjudge it all by appearing in the child-manifestation that shep's already are emotionally attached to.. it's a mind trick.

So much that hints toward it throughout the whole series, and with all the official twitters that just hints towards we've not seen what's what just yet.. i think this is awesome to be honest.. it take guts to pull something like this off, i'm impressed

If I'm wrong however.. I'm just gonna have to keep it at an interpretation stage a la patient 67.. still alright, at least now when the emotions settled a bit..but i do sincerly think they're actually doing something awesome here that we'll look back on for a long time and celebrate.

[Tiax Rules All]

Captain_Black wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

If I don't have the full picture it's because they didn't give it to me. Now I paid for it and I should have it, but since I don't I think I will opt out of buying anything from them for a bit.

what if the ending DLC is free? which it likely will be.
whats the difference really?

I think as i said in an earlier post - we've not played the end, the player is in London and the DLC will be payable or free.. who knows, but the game is not complete yet.. Clever move by Bioware

exactly.

[Tiax Rules All]

Stooneagree wrote...

I'm, actually feeling quite optimistic about this whole thing now, at first I was really depressed but I've realized later that I didn't get all hints that actually points towards everything after harby's end beam is not really happening, and how the child might be a way of harby to shepard misjudge it all by appearing in the child-manifestation that shep's already are emotionally attached to.. it's a mind trick.

So much that hints toward it throughout the whole series, and with all the official twitters that just hints towards we've not seen what's what just yet.. i think this is awesome to be honest.. it take guts to pull something like this off, i'm impressed

If I'm wrong however.. I'm just gonna have to keep it at an interpretation stage a la patient 67.. still alright, at least now when the emotions settled a bit..but i do sincerly think they're actually doing something awesome here that we'll look back on for a long time and celebrate.

yes well we shouldnt be argueing over what the non-ending meant. If there is any real compalint it should be that it was not obvoius enough to the player. butmore obvoius would ahve been TOO obvoius and the player would never choose incoreectly. Reapers are manipulating YOU as much as Shep in the games finale...

[Stooneagree]

yes well we shouldnt be argueing over what the non-ending meant. If there is any real compalint it should be that it was not obvoius enough to the player. butmore obvoius would ahve been TOO obvoius and the player would never choose incoreectly. Reapers are manipulating YOU as much as Shep in the games finale...

Sure, I discussed it with a friend and we both were asking ourselves if it was a designflaw that we didn't figure it out until quite some time later.. but if it's too obvious, it wouldn't have the same impact.. and being revealed something later that haves the whole thing make sense, has a much greater effect after this "player-indoctrination"

In my opinion! I'm hoping this will happen at least..

[Archonsg]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

So ya, your hallucination / indoctrination theory does start to sound better and better all the time. But even so, it meant that it had be right at the point when Shepard and squad were hit by the beam and everything that comes after is a "lie" / dream / hallucination... whatever.

Given that was the ending given to us, it IS A BAD ending. No matter how you want to call it.

We don't have to come up with excuses for Bioware or their writers and we certainly do not need to come up with convoluted what ifs to make sense of what we saw.
What really made me mad is that right up to London and the events that followed, Mass Effect 3 was a beautifully crafted game and more then met expectations. But to finally cap it off with poor and shoddy writing at the end? Where choices given to you are contrary to what your character would do, where "all your decisions leading to this point ...(effects your outcome!) didn't matter.. is just wrong.

you cant fully appreciate THIS ending till the REAL ending comes out. 

When Bioware releases the ednign DLC (say its free) then why bother hating this ending at all. You are hating on a FALSE ending that was pt there on purpose and not because of bad writing. Bad marketing? maybe. Bad fanbase? can be seen like that. but not bad writing.

I understand that you are trying to justify that ending and "keep the faith" but please do not insult my intelligence or anyone elses by saying that "its not bad writing to intentionally put in a false end ..." to anything.

It is. 

Intentional or not, this is not right. Nor is it good in ANY sense. Defininitely not good marketing, definitely not good writing. 
BTW did you even read what I wrote? 

Point of Logic, if you require a seperate product to complete the one you already bought, is the one you have complete? 
If not, why release an incomplete product in the first place.
Does the story as it stands makes sense, on its own? Does it conform to the rules that the authors have set down for it at the start? 
It is obvious that you truly want to believe that this is all "good" that is your right. 

Me, I judge a product by what I have at the point of purchase. If its incomplete it  is bad. If It needs to be fix but is fixed, it is STILL bad to begin with but depending on the "fixed" result, my satisfaction and trust for the company that sold me an incomplete product has already been compromised, will dictate just how much business they see from me in future.

Lastly. 
I am bothering to write here on these forums knowing full well that the odds are close to nill that anyone from Bioware will actually see any of it because I loved their product and am hoping that they will do the right thing and address the severe lapse in judgement they have shown.
That love however, does not in any way tint my view of the SHODDY product that they have already sold with rose colored glasses.

Modifié par Archonsg, 15 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[Maestro of Fails]

As was mentioned far earlier in this thread, the indoctrination theory is utterly crushed under the fact that at low EMS the only option presented is destroy.

As the other stated, if this was a result of indoctrination why would the reapers only leave you with the best option?

Grasping desperately at straws (No matter how logically or drawn out) does not change the fact that this ending had enormous flaws. A DLC would be nice, but the fifth grade level writing (Synthetics will always destroy organics, so let's stop that by creating synthetics to destroy organics?) at the end will always be there in the vanilla game. EVERYTHING leading up to that point was awesome, and exactly what I hoped for... But this wasn't the product I was promised.

Do not try to pass this off as "artistic license" as I saw you do in some other posts. Even a movie as open ended as "The Ice Harvest" or "Fight Club" made me sit there and go huh, but Mass Effect 3's ending made me go "Wait just a minute... None of this makes any sense at all"

Trying to sell a theory as a viable alternative to the written, on the disc ending, is the definition of desperation.

I have the real ending of the Mass Effect franchise right here.

Electronic. Arts.

[DragonRageGT]

soundhole wrote...

I've already re-formatted my contentions.  Posting soon.

You're blindly following what some bloggers have told you and not interpreting the game for yourself.  You don't seem to realize that Bioware has screwed you over.  Moreover, you spread that ignorance like a disease.  

I'm not going to reject what is soundly supported by evidence.  

So, what difference does it make to you? You reject it, we get it. Why so agressive? If Tiax is wrong, then you're right, you can rage about BW screwing you over like you do now. Doesn't change much, does it?

But why everyone must be tunnel visioned, close minded and so willing to feed the rage? What if Tiax is right? There is no way to know if you'll have your opinion validated or he will until the right time. So you could just make another topic with your theory and have all those who see it the same way as you, supporting you. To me it just seems that you would be ever more mad at BW if Tiax is right because you will have wasted a lot of rage for nothing and that is something you don't seem to be able to cope well: Being wrong.

Jerrybnsn wrote...

the only thing about Mass Effect 3 that is a fact is that the vast majority of consumers who purchased it aren't pleased. Whether the ending was done artistically for a thought provoking ending, or if it was done for profit reasons to get more money in a dlc ending is subjective.

There is another thing about ME3 that is also a fact. 99,9999% of the owners love, absolutely love the game until the scene with the elevator in the Citadel and then the kid.

Even if that theory about the DLC being free and that BW did the release game ending like it is because of the leak was posted on 4chan, they have been right in a quite a few "predictions" they made there. So it is a 50-50 chance that there will be indeed a DLC and it will be free.

I doubt that the boxing scene with QTE (interrupts if you prefer) is the only thing in ME3 that is inspired by The Witcher 2. I could bet that a free DCL with the priiiiiize seems nothing less than reasonable.

[melisma]

Ok, so if we buy the indoctrination theory.

By this logic, you cannot get the "true" ending where Shep wakes up from being indoctrinated unless you play multiplayer because there are literally not enough war assets available otherwise.

Firstly, that's ****ty. I bought a single player RPG. If I wanted to play a multiplayer TPS, I would have bought one.

Secondly, why would Bioware tell us in a stickied thread in the other forums that you CAN get the 'best' ending without multiplayer? If we accept the premise that Shep waking up is the "true" ending, that's just flat out lying to the customer.

SO EVEN IF you are correct and indoctrination is the meaning of the ending, it still fails at being a satisfying ending if customers who only play the single player RPG portion of the game can never see it. If I pick the destroy option, and never see Shepard wake up, there's no indication that she was indoctrinated and every indication that I just committed geth genocide and screwed over the entire galaxy by destroying all technology.

Modifié par melisma, 15 mars 2012 - 11:51 .

[DragonRageGT]

soundhole wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...
...
If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.

That is what you want to believe.  Not a fact, not backed by evidence.

To stay just with this, are you saying that the radio chatter does not say exactly that?

[Tiax Rules All]

Archonsg wrote...

I understand that you are trying to justify that ending and "keep the faith" but please do not insult my intelligence or anyone elses by saying that "its not bad writing to intentionally put in a false end ..." to anything.

It is. 

Intentional or not, this is not right. Nor is it good in ANY sense. Defininitely not good marketing, definitely not good writing. 
BTW did you even read what I wrote? 

Point of Logic, if you require a seperate product to complete the one you already bought, is the one you have complete? 
If not, why release an incomplete product in the first place.
Does the story as it stands makes sense, on its own? Does it conform to the rules that the authors have set down for it at the start? 
It is obvious that you truly want to believe that this is all "good" that is your right. 

Bioware did this with the series that MADE them. Baldur's gate. the second games ending was CLEARLY (no hiding at all) not the end. it was a huge cliff hanger. and what did the finsih the arching story with? an expation pack it was ending DLC. and nobody hated that. In fact we loved them for it. what changed?
watch the eding of BG2 on youtube, after Irenicus dies, the rest of the ending is just one big entire seque into the EX pack.   THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, you are not thinking clearly. I dont want to insult your intelleignce you can not like the ending if you want but get the whole story first and hate it for the right reasons is my point.

It sound like you would have had been raging over BG2 and would have demanded Throne of Bhall Expantion to be included in BG2 at no extra cost...   sorry but thats not your call. They marketed the game that way, it worked then, it will work now. rage will subside. it seems so much worse now then it is.

Me, I judge a product by what I have at the point of purchase. If its incomplete it  is bad. If It needs to be fix but is fixed, it is STILL bad to begin with but depending on the "fixed" result, my satisfaction and trust for the company that sold me an incomplete product has already been compromised, will dictate just how much business they see from me in future.

so you woulndt have bought throne of bhall expantion for BG2 because of this princapal? the similarities are there. Except throne of bhall was costly, and the truth DLC here is likely to be free. Dont be mad...

Lastly. 
I am bothering to write here on these forums knowing full well that the odds are close to nill that anyone from Bioware will actually see any of it because I loved their product and am hoping that they will do the right thing and address the severe lapse in judgement they have shown.
That love however, does not in any way tint my view of the SHODDY product that they have already sold with rose colored glasses.

they dont have to adress your dislike over the ending, they know the facts. they know when the eventual "deluxe edition" comes out with all content in it. It will not be a failure. i dont hear anybody saying they didnt like the game just their perception of the ending. once that is remedied by the coming announcemnts then all will be well again. or as well as things ever can get on the BSN.

[soundhole]

For what it's worth, thank you for your response.  You are right that I should not falsly accuse you of anything I have no proof of.  I rescind my accusation of you parroting a blog and the opinion of others. I will try to keep this brief - neither of us should be on here too long.

[quote]Tiax Rules All wrote...

maybe, i cant disprove that but i still think your wrong

[/quote]

This, to me, is what is really wrong with the Indoc hypothesis.  I'll expand on that more below.

[quote]

i wouldnt be here if i havent "really thought about this" I do the work.

1) Sheps dream is not telling him anything, but Anderson is sheps conscience or moral center projected, TIM is the control option projected and Boy-binger is Synth option projected. Together though control and synth represent outside forces (indoc forces) feeding misinformation while Andersons  projection is sheps mind fighitng back. nothing happens while sheps out except wether he gives into indoc or not, everything else is false and will fade away once dlc proves this.
[/quote]

"Once the DLC proves this..."

Again, blind faith.  I have a problem with this.  You're just setting yourself up for more disappointment.  You have chosen to believe this, without evidence, and when the DLC either doesn't come out, or sucks completely, I hope you can cope better.

[quote]
2 and 3) actually the boy in the nightmares is sheps mind but the boy at the end was harbinger, using that form to get a more sympathetic result from shepard knowing that Shep feels gulty for not saving him. 
[/quote]

I understand this point better now, but it still doesn't lend any credibility to indoctrination per se.  Shep projecting a guilty image could be true regardless of whether he is in an indoctrinated hallucination or not.  


[quote]
Its not just Hackett, its established from early game one that there is no comprimise with reapers.. it reinforced over and over and over. Sheps own speech at the beginning is "we fight or we die" not "we fight or we die or maybe pick the wierd nonsensical third option if presented by a reaper"
[/quote]

It doesn't matter, the same question applies.  What would you expect you any of your allies to say?  You pointed out the lunacy yourself, as the other option is something like  "we fight or we die or maybe pick the wierd nonsensical third option if presented by a reaper".  Everyone is on board to fight the reapers, and even if someone had doubts, no one on a military vessel would say otherwise.

[quote]
1 and 2) Boy-binger wants to portray that as a bad thing, its subtle manipulation. You may be a renegade Shep but there is now way to play a traitorous shep in ME3, you dont have the option.

3) the colors represent what the REAPERS want as paragon and renegade not shep's morals, if you are so renegade that you would make a deal with the devils then you DESERVE to be indoctrinated in game.

4) harbinger does not expect shepard to WANT to join them and is skewing his perceptions to that nature.

it makes sense
[/quote]

I can better understand your argument here, but again, we can't get indoctrination from that.  The Catalyst could itself have motivations for manipulating Shepard.  Even if what you say is 100% true, it lends no evidence to indoctrination.

[quote]
my evidence to that was shep waking up on earth. Thats the biggest peice of hard evidence so far. Thats why its the hardest to get and the last thing shown. Its important, very important and foreshadows the future dlc. that is evidence stop telling me i dont have any... you must be skipping over those lines..
[/quote]

You want to believe he's waking up.

[quote]
IYour 'personal' beliefs are your own.  Fine.  But they aren't backed by evidence.

The rest of your original post is just conjecture based on Bioware's PR campaign.  If you want to elaborate on any of it, fine, but I am not going to address it immediately.

[/quote]
Biowares PR campaign right now is one of "we dont have the whole ending"
are we supposed to believe that this will turn out to be a lie and they will say. " actually disregard that last post" you DO have the whole story...
[/quote]

No, I think that the rest of the story (a paid DLC) won't offer anything in the way of closure.  

[quote]
ALSO) you said i stole my ideas from others, not true. Dont accuse me of something you could never prove. If i came up with the same theory on my own that others came up with it should only help the idea that its not all that hard to come to same conclustions after different people see the same game.
[/quote]

Fair enough, you deserve the benefit of the doubt.   Again, I apologize for that.

[quote]
Do you have more? I used indoctrination theory to explain and refute your side. None of my answers were just thought up now, they were already established by my OP and other Indoc theory threads. my answeres wont change with any new evidence you can present because all the evidence there is, is already plain to see in the game ending as is.[/quote]

To be fair, what you just posted was a lot more clear than the OP.  But I'm not saying that I have any new evidence, just that by applying a skeptical mind, the evidence that you're presenting is just being interpreted by a hopeful fan.  You have faith, not evidence.  Even if they add to the ending later, the ending is exceptional in its lameness.

Remember, you yourself said that " i cant disprove that but i still think your wrong".  You're free to believe in whatever you want, but even if I turn out to be wrong and the DLC picks up post-beam with a really great story, I won't regret only interpreting the ending given the evidence at hand and not applying my imagination.

Really, thanks again for your responses.

[DragonRageGT]

Maestro of Fails wrote...

As was mentioned far earlier in this thread, the indoctrination theory is utterly crushed under the fact that at low EMS the only option presented is destroy.
...

I think that there is no way to get the "best ending" (the breath scene) with just one playthrough. It will require a NG+ for it. UNLESS you play the MP and get enough % Readiness to get your EMS above the requirement. That is game mechanics, not story related. If you don't get your EMS above the requirement, your Shepard will always die even if he chooses the right option with a bad ending. If that is the only option available, it can also be seen as a hint that a NG+ (or Multiplayer) is required to have a choice ending. Which then has no conflict with Tiax's theory.

Just like we can NOT have a level 60 Shepard in one playthrough in ME1 or even play Insanity unless we unlock Hardcore. In ME1, for a new profile or player, it requires 2 full playthroughs to unlock Insanity.

I want to believe in it. Withouth much expectation until an official word is heard. Since all we have now is silence, who are to say we are wrong? If BW makes an official statement saying that we are wrong, then we move on. If they say we are right to believe in such theory, they we just celebrate!

Better than dwelling in Rageland, no matter how much I love my nick Rage since good old Diablo 1.

[Tiax Rules All]

DragonRageGT wrote...

soundhole wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...
...
If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.

That is what you want to believe.  Not a fact, not backed by evidence.

To stay just with this, are you saying that the radio chatter does not say exactly that?

he apparently played a difference scene then i did there. I know what i hear for a fact. I could even write a transcript of it. perhaps it will become clearer to see it then hear it.  so when radio operator or major coates says" nobody made it to the beam" and "the forces were decimated" that they were not looking at that charge as it was their DUTY to watch shep and gang and the nobody has binoculars or a sniper scope, or omi tool or anything to she shep right there and if i am wrong, anderson aparently beating him to the beam when he wasnt even on the charge? why would he be? hes an admiral? by that logic Hackett should have ran with ya too to get shot. I mean we dont need commanders commanding or nothing we fight like Krogan and just send our admirals on suicide runs...

reject the face value. Its full of holes on purpose so you can realise its not real
reject the face value. Its full of holes on purpose so you can realise its not real
reject the face value. Its full of holes on purpose so you can realise its not real

3 times hoping it will sink in.

[DragonRageGT]

melisma wrote...

Ok, so if we buy the indoctrination theory.

By this logic, you cannot get the "true" ending where Shep wakes up from being indoctrinated unless you play multiplayer because there are literally not enough war assets available otherwise.

Firstly, that's ****ty. I bought a single player RPG. If I wanted to play a multiplayer TPS, I would have bought one.

Secondly, why would Bioware tell us in a stickied thread in the other forums that you CAN get the 'best' ending without multiplayer? If we accept the premise that Shep waking up is the "true" ending, that's just flat out lying to the customer.

SO EVEN IF you are correct and indoctrination is the meaning of the ending, it still fails at being a satisfying ending if customers who only play the single player RPG portion of the game can never see it. If I pick the destroy option, and never see Shepard wake up, there's no indication that she was indoctrinated and every indication that I just committed geth genocide and screwed over the entire galaxy by destroying all technology.

Like I said, you CAN have the best ending without multiplayer. All you need is 8,000 TMS which will make 4,000 EMS since your readiness is fixed at 50% without MP. I don't think you can do it in just one playthrough though and there is nothing wrong with it.  If you don't do a NG+, you still get your ending, even if it is not the best one. But the best ending is still available for those who only wants to play Single Player, even if it requires more effort. Just like it was said. (they'll be missing a lot of fun though, because the MP is actually awesome!)

[soundhole]

DragonRageGT wrote...

So, what difference does it make to you? You reject it, we get it. Why so agressive? If Tiax is wrong, then you're right, you can rage about BW screwing you over like you do now. Doesn't change much, does it?

But why everyone must be tunnel visioned, close minded and so willing to feed the rage? What if Tiax is right? There is no way to know if you'll have your opinion validated or he will until the right time. So you could just make another topic with your theory and have all those who see it the same way as you, supporting you. To me it just seems that you would be ever more mad at BW if Tiax is right because you will have wasted a lot of rage for nothing and that is something you don't seem to be able to cope well: Being wrong.

My opinion is that the evidence is lacking.  The only reason anyone here believes it is because they throw around conjecture until it fits in some similiarly shaped peg.  I would love nothing more than to be wrong, but I'm not going to accept blind faith as a reason to doubt what I can see with my own eyes.  

You're right about me being overly agressive.  I'm not really sorry, it's just how I am.  You ever seen Hebrew school?  Or just some old Rabbis going at it?  They don't hold back.  That's who I fit in with, and I'm not even Jewish.  So, I guess what I'm saying is... come to peace with it.  It's not like I'm calling you a f*%ck-head or anything.

All I ask for is evidence.  Present it, let's discuss it.  I apparantly don't "get it", but I'm not buying any of the arguments presented so far.  If Tiax or you can do better, I'd like to read it.

[melisma]

DragonRageGT wrote...
Like I said, you CAN have the best ending without multiplayer. All you need is 8,000 TMS which will make 4,000 EMS since your readiness is fixed at 50% without MP. I don't think you can do it in just one playthrough though and there is nothing wrong with it.  If you don't do a NG+, you still get your ending, even if it is not the best one. But the best ending is still available for those who only wants to play Single Player, even if it requires more effort. Just like it was said. (they'll be missing a lot of fun though, because the MP is actually awesome!)

More effort = playing the entire game again? Sorry, but that's still a bad option and it still doesn't sit right with the forum post they made. 

[soundhole]

DragonRageGT wrote...

soundhole wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...
...
If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.

That is what you want to believe.  Not a fact, not backed by evidence.

To stay just with this, are you saying that the radio chatter does not say exactly that?

I'm saying that it doesn't matter.  "No one could possibly mess up and not see something on a battlefield" is a stretch.  It's not impossible, it's just more baseless conjecture.

[Egonne]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

So when the real ending is released i am vindicated for all this and i play the **** outta it. I dougt it will "just be a ****ty ending anyway" but speculating on the ending of the dlc is just dumb so i wont try, we will all see in the end.

the real end

I agree that speculation on the 'real' ending is almost impossible, but on that note I was wondering if anyone noticed the remarkable resemblance between 'glyph' and the first form of the Prothean beacon on Thessia.  It seems odd to me that Liara is creating a 'documentary for the ages', that glyph implies he is going to be part of it, that the game in general is constantly referring to 'cycles' and that the prothean beacon at first looks like a degraded version of glyph.  Maybe it is all just coincidence.

Is there a thread that talks about this possibility?

[DiegoProgMetal]

The simple fact that the "AI/VI" that talks to Shepard has the image of the dead kid, is as proof that this same AI/VI CAN get into Shepard's mind and see what's in there, otherwise how/why have the kid's image. Considering it, it's possible that the indoctrination theory is true, and we MAY have something coming.
Since I'm playing on Insanity, with no rush to end it, exploring every single corner of the game, I won't be concerned about it so soon. And if Bioware decides that's the ending, ok, no more EA games for me.

Off-topic ps.: There was a thread where Chris told us to play on easier difficulties, to get the "gist" of it, before going into Insanity. We replied quoting the movie "300", "BSN, what is your profession? HAOOOOO, HAOOOO, HAOOO". I think, after 20+ hours of gameplay on Insanity (my first playthrough), "persians" are having a really hard time.

Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 15 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[DragonRageGT]

melisma wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...
Like I said, you CAN have the best ending without multiplayer. All you need is 8,000 TMS which will make 4,000 EMS since your readiness is fixed at 50% without MP. I don't think you can do it in just one playthrough though and there is nothing wrong with it.  If you don't do a NG+, you still get your ending, even if it is not the best one. But the best ending is still available for those who only wants to play Single Player, even if it requires more effort. Just like it was said. (they'll be missing a lot of fun though, because the MP is actually awesome!)

More effort = playing the entire game again? Sorry, but that's still a bad option and it still doesn't sit right with the forum post they made. 

Yes, for the "secret" ending as prima guide called it or was it "surprise" ending? And it is not only play the entire game again. You also have to keep your fish alive or have it saved by Kelly in ME2! So yeah, the "best" ending is not for lazy gamers.

Although you can replay it in Story Mode/Casual, it would be a very fast walk in the park. Me? I can only play Insanity/Nightmare/(insert hardest diff here) because that is who I am. And I have so many playthroughs in ME1 and ME2 (as with a few other great games I own) that my only concern about the endings (since before release) was that it would kill the joy of replaying the game.

Like me, many others could not replay the game, no matter how great it actually is, because of the ending sucking so bad even or specially the "best" ending, since lots of players want their Shepard alive and with their friends, not galaxies apart.

For me, Tiax's theory makes sense. It is not blind faith. It is common sense. And I can still disagree with Tiax in some points like BG2. I never played ToB and never needed it. And it was a whole expansion pack, way different from a DLC.

The Witcher 2, which has one of the most brilliant stories in any RPGs, to me, had a great ending, albeit short in its final chapter. And the Enhanced Edition is also addressing that, adding some more 4 hours of gameplay time, along with many improvements, for free.

What really is going to be bad is if the final 5 or 10 minutes of ME3 can ruin an awesome game because it kills any motivation for replayability. I don't want to believe a company would deliberately do that to its leading product. Assuming Tiax's theory is right, it would be really a masterpiece "teaser" ending. If it was caused by the leaks or not, I can't say, assuming it happens.

What I can say is that in-game ME3 proves that at least Bioware listen to these forums and the fans and follows some of the discussions here. The Vega-Cortez discussion about the Mako-Hammerhead is entirely made of lines which I have read in posts here! Plus Wrex playing some tribute to David Gaidner with his line "suck it up, princesses"!

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 15 mars 2012 - 12:44 .

[Tiax Rules All]

[quote]soundhole wrote...

"Once the DLC proves this..."

Again, blind faith.  I have a problem with this.  You're just setting yourself up for more disappointment.  You have chosen to believe this, without evidence, and when the DLC either doesn't come out, or sucks completely, I hope you can cope better. [/quote]

and its not possible that your wrong? Read the official twitter posts that are floating around. they basically admit to more. they cant yet for reasons that are obvious. its not released yet globally. not everybody has seen the ending yet and if they admit there is more now and that this endind is fake. then they will have effectively spoiled thier plot device of indoctrination at the end and the beggining of the DLC

Chris Priestly (Bioware Lead PR Manager)
twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872
Jessica Merizan (Bioware PR rep)
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152
The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
you wont have to be upset anymore, all this outrage is manufactured on purpose to hype the real ending. please. read them. tell me what they mean to you.

[quote]

I understand this point better now, but it still doesn't lend any credibility to indoctrination per se.  Shep projecting a guilty image could be true regardless of whether he is in an indoctrinated hallucination or not.  [/qoute]

just because they didn't supply us with ALL the answers right now doesn't mean it doesnt fit with my theory. They didn't give us all the answers yet so how am i supposed to give them to you. but again, that doesnt make me wrong or the theory wrong. no dlc or an official statement is all that can do that. It does fit better with indoc then just the mystical face value alternative though. and its cooler.

[quote]

It doesn't matter, the same question applies.  What would you expect you any of your allies to say?  You pointed out the lunacy yourself, as the other option is something like  "we fight or we die or maybe pick the wierd nonsensical third option if presented by a reaper".  Everyone is on board to fight the reapers, and even if someone had doubts, no one on a military vessel would say otherwise.[quote]

sheps on a military vessel yet you seem to think its ok for HIM to say it in form of the ending choice. He should have joined the "everybody else"... but reaper indoctrination changed that didnt it... 

[quote]
I can better understand your argument here, but again, we can't get indoctrination from that.  The Catalyst could itself have motivations for manipulating Shepard.  Even if what you say is 100% true, it lends no evidence to indoctrination.[/quote]

I beg to differ. by itself maybe not but with everything else, yes. it is evidence.

[quote]
You want to believe he's waking up. [/quote]

what are you seeing here? please. tell me


[quote]
IYour 'personal' beliefs are your own.  Fine.  But they aren't backed by evidence.

The rest of your original post is just conjecture based on Bioware's PR campaign.  If you want to elaborate on any of it, fine, but I am not going to address it immediately. [/quote]
so you admit that the PR is spinning a "you dont have it all" story but they are somehow lying to you? who in denail here. you just dismissed evidence, you are doing that alot and telling me i have no evidence. All this thread is, is full of evidence. you think its your duty to prove it wrong or otherwise belittle my ideas.

[quote]
No, I think that the rest of the story (a paid DLC) won't offer anything in the way of closure.  

[/quote]
lol, so whos assumng things now, you are assuming that an ending DLC wont have and ending? you are a pessimist at best and completely delutional at worst.
[quote]
To be fair, what you just posted was a lot more clear than the OP.  [/quote]
only because of your perception. I adressed it to you specifically and applied theory directly to your doubts. Thats why it feels clearer to you. The theory or what im saying hasnt changed one bit though from the OP. Its you mind clearing up not my writing.

[quote]
Remember, you yourself said that " i cant disprove that but i still think your wrong".  You're free to believe in whatever you want, but even if I turn out to be wrong and the DLC picks up post-beam with a really great story, I won't regret only interpreting the ending given the evidence at hand and not applying my imagination.

Really, thanks again for your responses.

[/quote]
I would regret it. I were you and was wrong. I would have done something which is in effect like writing a review about ME3 from the demo. I would have based my decision on incomplete data. and mislead anybody who read my posts.

its possible im doing that now. but i fully believe im right and that i wont need to have to worry about regret later. If I am wrong i will deal with my regret in my own way. Ill even post a "im sorry for misleading you" post if you want. but i dont need to ask you for an apology because you are not hurting my view of the game, only your own. 

[Tiax Rules All]

DragonRageGT wrote...

melisma wrote...

Ok, so if we buy the indoctrination theory.

By this logic, you cannot get the "true" ending where Shep wakes up from being indoctrinated unless you play multiplayer because there are literally not enough war assets available otherwise.

Firstly, that's ****ty. I bought a single player RPG. If I wanted to play a multiplayer TPS, I would have bought one.

Secondly, why would Bioware tell us in a stickied thread in the other forums that you CAN get the 'best' ending without multiplayer? If we accept the premise that Shep waking up is the "true" ending, that's just flat out lying to the customer.

SO EVEN IF you are correct and indoctrination is the meaning of the ending, it still fails at being a satisfying ending if customers who only play the single player RPG portion of the game can never see it. If I pick the destroy option, and never see Shepard wake up, there's no indication that she was indoctrinated and every indication that I just committed geth genocide and screwed over the entire galaxy by destroying all technology.

Like I said, you CAN have the best ending without multiplayer. All you need is 8,000 TMS which will make 4,000 EMS since your readiness is fixed at 50% without MP. I don't think you can do it in just one playthrough though and there is nothing wrong with it.  If you don't do a NG+, you still get your ending, even if it is not the best one. But the best ending is still available for those who only wants to play Single Player, even if it requires more effort. Just like it was said. (they'll be missing a lot of fun though, because the MP is actually awesome!)

unfortunately you cant get enough from SP alone.. but that is a WHOLE nother issue in a whole nother topic. I assume this will be fixed by patching the ending requirements lower to reflect this or certain war assets higer to compensate.

[Fingertrip]

"We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.". How can this not be any more clear that there's something in store for the ending? It's literally spilled out for you, lol.