1594 réponses à ce sujet

[annoyingpoodle]

Ludica wrote...

Exactly you have 3 decisions and only one results in you winning the game if they all resulted in you beating the game then they wouldn't matter.

Nope. If past decisions of prior games and this game resulted in you winning/losing the game, then it would have mattered. Here, you only have 3 decisions that actually matter(since you have to grind multiplayer to get 4000 EMS anyway):
1)Accept the Reapers are right
2)Accept the Reapers are right

3)Accept the Reapers are right(and survive?)


Remember that little decision by the end of ME2? What did it say? Ah yes, "we will fight and win without it. I won't let fear compromise who i am."

You did. Congratulations?

None of your decisions effected the outcome of ME1 or ME2 no matter what you "won" at the end, ME3 your final decision determines if you beat the game or epic fail.
"we will fight and win without it. I won't let fear compromise who I am" exactly so your saying his fear of killing the geth should compromise his goal of destroying the reapers? And lets not forget the geth are robots who now have reaper tech inside them.

[BoneNinja]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hex23 wrote...

I believe in indoctrination theory but I will play Devil's advocate for a sec.

Let's say the end should be taken at face value. It 100% happened. This still doesn't explain Star Gazer...but let's roll with it all being real for a second.

The problem with that is, Bioware has been tweeting nonstop hinting that we don't have the full picture.

Look at this Chris Priestly tweet from today:

twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872

Jessica Merizan:
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152

The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338

This has been going on nonstop for the last 2 days. Some might say "oh, this is PR"....but you can't really. PR wouldn't get that specific about us not understanding what we've seen, yet.

cannot ignore this

OMG, I cannot express the relief that just washed through me.

[annoyingpoodle]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Ludica wrote...

A first tl;dr reader wrote...
A racist? lol. His job is to destroy the reapers at ANY cost the other two options are epic fails, decisions matter more at the end of ME3 then any other game I've played, if you dont pick "destroy" then you lose the game.

rofl talk about contradicting yourself. 

you are wrong and i will tell you why if you will hear me.

You are assuming that what boy-binger tells you about the choices is real at all.
hes making you not want to pick that choice, lying to you, hes says you are partly sythetic and may not survive it but it is in fact the only ending that actually shows you survivng at the end. thus lies

do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised? no becasue all the ending we saw had nothign to with ANY of that and EVERYTHING to do with one simple choice broken down to this:

Destroy (resist) = you win you wake up, you beat indoctrination
Control, synth (give in) = you let the reapers manipulate you, you chose to comprimise, you are indoctrinated, you dont get to see the wake up at the end

What he is saying is that even though those decisions are in your mind choosing the destroy option is "wrong" (his opionion not mine)
Also the reason the destroy ending seems evil is because the reapers try to present it as the evil option in order to steer you away from it so they can gain full  control of you

Modifié par annoyingpoodle, 15 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[melisma]

Tiax Rules All wrote...
Destroy (resist) = you win you wake up, you beat indoctrination
Control, synth = you let the reapers manipulate you, you chose to comprimise, you are indoctrinated, you dont get to see the wake up at the end

But the biggest problem is still that if you don't play multiplayer, you don't get to see the wake-up. So for all intents and purposes, those Sheps have destroyed the relays and doomed the galaxy because there's no indication otherwise. Indoctrination only works as a concept if the Shepard-wakes-up ending is available. What about the people who don't have their consoles connected to the internet? They can't play multiplayer and they also can't even download a DLC "fix" at all .  

I can accept your points about indoctrination but I can't accept that it's a good ending, and I don't think DLC will fix my perception that the ending is fundamentally bad. 

(Edited to remove weird line breaks)

Modifié par melisma, 15 mars 2012 - 01:49 .

[Ludica]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

You are assuming that what boy-binger tells you about the choices is real at all.
hes making you not want to pick that choice, lying to you, hes says you are partly sythetic and may not survive it but it is in fact the only ending that actually shows you survivng at the end. thus lies

do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised? no becasue all the ending we saw had nothign to with ANY of that and EVERYTHING to do with one simple choice broken down to this:

Destroy (resist) = you win you wake up, you beat indoctrination
Control, synth (give in) = you let the reapers manipulate you, you chose to comprimise, you are indoctrinated, you dont get to see the wake up at the end

Actually i was following your logic about indoctrination theory.

If i didn't, i'd question mass relay blownup/joker chickening/random planet and so on, and so on.

But my point is the only point indoctrination theory cannot defeat.

I'll repeat myself, i knew you wouldn't get me, but no worries, i'm patient:

So if i am to assume indoctrination/hallucination is right, then Shepard is racist, regardless of your Paragon/Renegade scores, decisions, and claims, and can only get out from the "Reaper trap" by accepting all Geth-robots-computers are evil and the Reapers are right. So i come out of that rubble as a complete insane monster willing to commit genocide. 

The TRUE victory over indoctrination would be as follows: **** you, Catalyst. Your ideas are crap. And i'm walking away now. Because your options are also crap.

All I wanted is an option to walk away. We can fight and win without the Crucible, especially if the decision on how to use it isn't real, as you suggest.

[SonosI]

BoneNinja wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hex23 wrote...

I believe in indoctrination theory but I will play Devil's advocate for a sec.

Let's say the end should be taken at face value. It 100% happened. This still doesn't explain Star Gazer...but let's roll with it all being real for a second.

The problem with that is, Bioware has been tweeting nonstop hinting that we don't have the full picture.

Look at this Chris Priestly tweet from today:

twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872

Jessica Merizan:
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152

The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338

This has been going on nonstop for the last 2 days. Some might say "oh, this is PR"....but you can't really. PR wouldn't get that specific about us not understanding what we've seen, yet.

cannot ignore this

OMG, I cannot express the relief that just washed through me.

None of the links work, could you give me/us a breakdown? 

[Shepard Wins]

Okay, NO. The Geth are AIs that raise questions about the nature of life in the best Philip K. Dick fashion, so don't dismiss them (ah yes) as robots. The geth were a part of this game when it was still amazing (before the endings).

Point of the indoc theory is, spacekid is bul****ting you. Killing the Reapers does not have to kill the Geth.

[annoyingpoodle]

Ludica wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

You are assuming that what boy-binger tells you about the choices is real at all.
hes making you not want to pick that choice, lying to you, hes says you are partly sythetic and may not survive it but it is in fact the only ending that actually shows you survivng at the end. thus lies

do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised? no becasue all the ending we saw had nothign to with ANY of that and EVERYTHING to do with one simple choice broken down to this:

Destroy (resist) = you win you wake up, you beat indoctrination
Control, synth (give in) = you let the reapers manipulate you, you chose to comprimise, you are indoctrinated, you dont get to see the wake up at the end

Actually i was following your logic about indoctrination theory.

If i didn't, i'd question mass relay blownup/joker chickening/random planet and so on, and so on.

But my point is the only point indoctrination theory cannot defeat.

I'll repeat myself, i knew you wouldn't get me, but no worries, i'm patient:

So if i am to assume indoctrination/hallucination is right, then Shepard is racist, regardless of your Paragon/Renegade scores, decisions, and claims, and can only get out from the "Reaper trap" by accepting all Geth-robots-computers are evil and the Reapers are right. So i come out of that rubble as a complete insane monster willing to commit genocide. 

The TRUE victory over indoctrination would be as follows: **** you, Catalyst. Your ideas are crap. And i'm walking away now. Because your options are also crap.

All I wanted is an option to walk away. We can fight and win without the Crucible, especially if the decision on how to use it isn't real, as you suggest.

Shepard doesn't know hes being indoctrinated he believes whats happening is real and those three options represent the three things he can do with the crucible. So walking away would be pretty stupid.

Modifié par annoyingpoodle, 15 mars 2012 - 01:51 .

[Tiax Rules All]

BoneNinja wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hex23 wrote...

I believe in indoctrination theory but I will play Devil's advocate for a sec.

Let's say the end should be taken at face value. It 100% happened. This still doesn't explain Star Gazer...but let's roll with it all being real for a second.

The problem with that is, Bioware has been tweeting nonstop hinting that we don't have the full picture.

Look at this Chris Priestly tweet from today:

twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872

Jessica Merizan:
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152

The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338

This has been going on nonstop for the last 2 days. Some might say "oh, this is PR"....but you can't really. PR wouldn't get that specific about us not understanding what we've seen, yet.

cannot ignore this

OMG, I cannot express the relief that just washed through me.

yup, to anybody else. read these before telling me im stupid again. please. do yourslef a favor.
from the mouth of the beast...

[Ludica]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

None of your decisions effected the outcome of ME1 or ME2 no matter what you "won" at the end, ME3 your final decision determines if you beat the game or epic fail.
"we will fight and win without it. I won't let fear compromise who I am" exactly so your saying his fear of killing the geth should compromise his goal of destroying the reapers? And lets not forget the geth are robots who now have reaper tech inside them.

Well you could still lose in ME2 and have hilarious(in my opinion) shot of Joker, showing you "I got this". I'll give you ME1, but hey, the franchise was just starting, a lot is to be forgiven(except Mako. **** that car).
No, i'm saying i should not be compromised by fear of geth being hostile in the future and killing everyone. Geth are peaceful. They just want to be left alone. There is 0 possibility of them becoming evil without Reaper influence. Zero. NONE.

[Tiax Rules All]

SonosI wrote...

BoneNinja wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hex23 wrote...

I believe in indoctrination theory but I will play Devil's advocate for a sec.

Let's say the end should be taken at face value. It 100% happened. This still doesn't explain Star Gazer...but let's roll with it all being real for a second.

The problem with that is, Bioware has been tweeting nonstop hinting that we don't have the full picture.

Look at this Chris Priestly tweet from today:

twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872

Jessica Merizan:
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152

The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338

This has been going on nonstop for the last 2 days. Some might say "oh, this is PR"....but you can't really. PR wouldn't get that specific about us not understanding what we've seen, yet.

cannot ignore this

OMG, I cannot express the relief that just washed through me.

None of the links work, could you give me/us a breakdown? 

copy paste into adress bar, im sorry the links are fubar. ill try and retype

[SonosI]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

BoneNinja wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

hex23 wrote...

I believe in indoctrination theory but I will play Devil's advocate for a sec.

Let's say the end should be taken at face value. It 100% happened. This still doesn't explain Star Gazer...but let's roll with it all being real for a second.

The problem with that is, Bioware has been tweeting nonstop hinting that we don't have the full picture.

Look at this Chris Priestly tweet from today:

twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872

Jessica Merizan:
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152

The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338

This has been going on nonstop for the last 2 days. Some might say "oh, this is PR"....but you can't really. PR wouldn't get that specific about us not understanding what we've seen, yet.

cannot ignore this

OMG, I cannot express the relief that just washed through me.

yup, to anybody else. read these before telling me im stupid again. please. do yourslef a favor.
from the mouth of the beast...

None of the links are woking for me 
EDIT: Just seen your reply, will do! 

Modifié par SonosI, 15 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[UKJackMan]

Tiax thank you

[Capeo]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Ludica wrote...

A first tl;dr reader wrote...
A racist? lol. His job is to destroy the reapers at ANY cost the other two options are epic fails, decisions matter more at the end of ME3 then any other game I've played, if you dont pick "destroy" then you lose the game.

rofl talk about contradicting yourself. 

you are wrong and i will tell you why if you will hear me.

You are assuming that what boy-binger tells you about the choices is real at all.
hes making you not want to pick that choice, lying to you, hes says you are partly sythetic and may not survive it but it is in fact the only ending that actually shows you survivng at the end. thus lies

do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised? no becasue all the ending we saw had nothign to with ANY of that and EVERYTHING to do with one simple choice broken down to this:

Destroy (resist) = you win you wake up, you beat indoctrination
Control, synth (give in) = you let the reapers manipulate you, you chose to comprimise, you are indoctrinated, you dont get to see the wake up at the end

This is such a pile crap it's hard to describe.  Shepard is not indoctrinated.  No matter what you do you beat the Reapers.  The game says as much, the script says as much and the epilogue says as much.  But of course the game saying that outright being a lie is just part of your deep conspiracy theory.  

[annoyingpoodle]

Ludica wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...

None of your decisions effected the outcome of ME1 or ME2 no matter what you "won" at the end, ME3 your final decision determines if you beat the game or epic fail.
"we will fight and win without it. I won't let fear compromise who I am" exactly so your saying his fear of killing the geth should compromise his goal of destroying the reapers? And lets not forget the geth are robots who now have reaper tech inside them.

Well you could still lose in ME2 and have hilarious(in my opinion) shot of Joker, showing you "I got this". I'll give you ME1, but hey, the franchise was just starting, a lot is to be forgiven(except Mako. **** that car).
No, i'm saying i should not be compromised by fear of geth being hostile in the future and killing everyone. Geth are peaceful. They just want to be left alone. There is 0 possibility of them becoming evil without Reaper influence. Zero. NONE.

So you would choose to turn everyone into  husks? or you would be willing become part of the reapers? or you would destroy the reapers even if it ment making sacrifices? The reapers are trying to test shepards ability to resist them by choosing any option but destroy you are basically saying that your not willing to do what it takes to destroy them.

[SonosI]

Righty, heres my opinion.

I enjoyed the ending, i got the Shepard Survives ending, somehow!
anyway, it obviously was not exactly what i was expecting, i was kinda expecting a sit around the poker table in the Normandy's lounge after it was all over - but hey that's just what i thought.
TBH, it would have been a bit crap if Bioware did exactly what were all expecting for closure, there's nothing worse than a predictable end to a story.

[Ludica]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

So you would choose to turn everyone into  husks? or you would be willing become part of the reapers? or you would destroy the reapers even if it ment making sacrifices? The reapers are trying to test shepards ability to resist them by choosing any option but destroy you are basically saying that your not willing to do what it takes to destroy them.

Like i said, what i would have done is as follows: show my middle finger to the Catalyst and walk away.

[vigna]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Ludica wrote...

A first tl;dr reader wrote...
A racist? lol. His job is to destroy the reapers at ANY cost the other two options are epic fails, decisions matter more at the end of ME3 then any other game I've played, if you dont pick "destroy" then you lose the game.

rofl talk about contradicting yourself. 

you are wrong and i will tell you why if you will hear me.

You are assuming that what boy-binger tells you about the choices is real at all.
hes making you not want to pick that choice, lying to you, hes says you are partly sythetic and may not survive it but it is in fact the only ending that actually shows you survivng at the end. thus lies

do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised? no becasue all the ending we saw had nothign to with ANY of that and EVERYTHING to do with one simple choice broken down to this:

Destroy (resist) = you win you wake up, you beat indoctrination
Control, synth (give in) = you let the reapers manipulate you, you chose to comprimise, you are indoctrinated, you dont get to see the wake up at the end

What he is saying is that even though those decisions are in your mind choosing the destroy option is "wrong" (his opionion not mine)
Also the reason the destroy ending seems evil is because the reapers try to present it as the evil option in order to steer you away from it so they can gain full  control of you

EDI also gets destroyed in that ending...correct? So you are sacrificing a crew member knowingly...that's the only justification for renegade i can see.

Modifié par vigna, 15 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[evisneffo]

So Tiax, if your theory is correct - and I don't fault your defence - this game I have is a conclusion to the saga without a conclusion. The question of future DLC is irrelevant: the game, advertised and sold as an ending, is incomplete. Pardon me if I say this doesn't make me feel any better.

[JasonTan87]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

yup, to anybody else. read these before telling me im stupid again. please. do yourslef a favor.
from the mouth of the beast...

My name is Tiax and this is my fravorite topic on the citadel.

[annoyingpoodle]

Ludica wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...

So you would choose to turn everyone into  husks? or you would be willing become part of the reapers? or you would destroy the reapers even if it ment making sacrifices? The reapers are trying to test shepards ability to resist them by choosing any option but destroy you are basically saying that your not willing to do what it takes to destroy them.

Like i said, what i would have done is as follows: show my middle finger to the Catalyst and walk away.

Right so you would have lost the fight to the indoctrination because your showing that your not willing to even sacrafice yourself to kill the reapers. Your not willing to do what it takes to destroy them so they win your shepard = saren

[Tiax Rules All]

Ludica wrote...

Actually i was following your logic about indoctrination theory.

you may have been following it but you are certainly not hearing it

If i didn't, i'd question mass relay blownup/joker chickening/random planet and so on, and so on.

But my point is the only point indoctrination theory cannot defeat.

I'll repeat myself, i knew you wouldn't get me, but no worries, i'm patient:

So if i am to assume indoctrination/hallucination is right, then Shepard is racist, regardless of your Paragon/Renegade scores, decisions, and claims, and can only get out from the "Reaper trap" by accepting all Geth-robots-computers are evil and the Reapers are right. So i come out of that rubble as a complete insane monster willing to commit genocide. 

The TRUE victory over indoctrination would be as follows: **** you, Catalyst. Your ideas are crap. And i'm walking away now. Because your options are also crap.

All I wanted is an option to walk away. We can fight and win without the Crucible, especially if the decision on how to use it isn't real, as you suggest.

what you dont get is destroy is not about anything boy tells you. none of it, not about the geth, not about reapers, not about you. you dont actully walk over to the right side, you arent actually fitring bullets, there is no explosion, there is no ending. shep is still on earth in London.

the destroy option IS the f-you boy-binger option. ITS EXACTLY THAT. has NOTHING to do with the war AT ALL and everything to do with a mental battle with the reapers. MENTAL. you choosing destroy is you fighting temptation to deal with the reapers. Control = deal= indoc     synth=deal=indoc    destroy=resist=wake up... i cant describe this any clearer.

Geth have nothing to do with this and the racist comment is totaly incorrect applied to either characers

[RaynerJA]

This is the indoctrinated effect, those people will never change their mind unless near death.
If, if all this comes true those people raging will stop and "ohhhh i was cheated, lets go to the forums and rage about it too". I cant w8 to see the result.

Modifié par RaynerJA, 15 mars 2012 - 02:05 .

[Tiax Rules All]

evisneffo wrote...

So Tiax, if your theory is correct - and I don't fault your defence - this game I have is a conclusion to the saga without a conclusion. The question of future DLC is irrelevant: the game, advertised and sold as an ending, is incomplete. Pardon me if I say this doesn't make me feel any better.

it has and ending, a twist ending that leads into further content but an ending.

Thats what Bioware will tell you, anyways if i buy ME3 and they realease ME3.1 to me for free.. then who cares they are giving you and ending just a tad later at no extra cost, why you mad?

[soundhole]

Tiax Rules All wrote...








and its not possible that your wrong? Read the official twitter posts that are floating around. they basically admit to more. they cant yet for reasons that are obvious. its not released yet globally. not everybody has seen the ending yet and if they admit there is more now and that this endind is fake. then they will have effectively spoiled thier plot device of indoctrination at the end and the beggining of the DLC

Wrong?  About what?  About there being no evidence of indoctrination?  Is that really an argument?

so you admit that the PR is spinning a "you dont have it all" story but they are somehow lying to you? who in denail here. you just dismissed evidence, you are doing that alot and telling me i have no evidence. All this thread is, is full of evidence. you think its your duty to prove it wrong or otherwise belittle my ideas.

I am saying you don't have evidence that Shep is indoctrinated.  A PR campaign doesn't prove your point.  At best, it means that a DLC is coming out that will answer questions.

lol, so whos assumng things now, you are assuming that an ending DLC wont have and ending? you are a pessimist at best and completely delutional at worst.

I think it won't offer closure.  You seem to know how to use a dictionary, find out what it means and how it differs from an ending.  I am a pessimisst, you're right.  Maybe I'm delusional, but I certainly wouldn't admit it if I were.  

I would regret it [if] I were you and was wrong. I would have done something which is in effect like writing a review about ME3 from the demo. I would have based my decision on incomplete data. and mislead anybody who read my posts.

The only decision I'm making is to say that you don't have the evidence you think you have.  Some people think they're haunted by ghosts or that the gob'ment's hiding UFO's.  You think Shep's indoctrinated.  Are any of you wrong?  Not necessarily, but you don't have any evidence for it.

Im literally throwing my arms in the air here. I keep throwing evidence at you and you refuse it. Thats not my problem its yours. Why must I keep proving myself to you. im not sure what your idea of evidence is but mine is all over this thread.

Don't count me out just yet, you've made some good arguments.  Your conjecture, since you looked it up, is still unproven.  It is, in fact, untestable given the "evidence" that you're "throwing" at me with your arms "literally" in the "air".  

"It might be..."

"it could be..."

"But if you listen to this...."

Really, all of the things you are talking about have alternative explanations.  Your evidence so far is weak.

Nice tactic trying to throw me off with your wonky formatting, by the way!  It almost worked....