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I think (alot) of those people who hate the endings don't actually "get it" I want to help you all (not pretentious)


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#1351
someguy1231

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

You have the words "not pretentious" in your thread title, and yet I find that very disclaimer pretentious. Oh the irony...


i had to write this because people apply false elitism to anything that contradicts them. and also people look at my Avatar and suddenly read my posts in a condescending tone, which is funny, and sad.

i guess its like "dont get me the wrong way"
saying that makes them get you the wrong way for sure


To me, it's akin to somebody saying "I'm not a racist but...", which of course is almost always a clear sign that yes, they are a racist. You write a thread with an incredibly pretentious title, and then tack on the words "not pretentious", which to me just makes you even more pretentious. In my experience, claiming that people don't "get it" is always the last resort of the desperate.

#1352
Ludica

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

 i must have missed your thread with an OP full of examples and and evidence. Just because every post you made in my thread says you have no evidence, doesn't make it so.

and every time i post more or repost because you dont seem to acknolede it, you tell me i have no evidence.
its no different then me telling you your name is not Lucida. I can say it over and over and over but it will still be there right in front of my face.


Oh, you want my thread? Here you go, i welcome you to my "humble home": link

My name is not Lucida. It's Ludica. Your critical lack of attention to other's posts just shined beyond heavens. 

The funny thing i'm not saying indoctrination theory is untrue.

I'm saying that even if it's true, the ending still sucks, still ridden with plot holes, and still does a complete 180 in it's ideas.

And presented evidence of it.

#1353
BoneNinja

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http://social.biowar...5/index/9992961

#1354
OriginalTibs

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Problem is that his is the only solution that fits the rest of the series. It doesn't excuse the subversion of art for the sake of marketing and stock dividends, but at least the theory fits the case neatly. It would be an elegant solution, if true.

But if I were Bioware's business analyst for this product I would be very quiet and stay out of sight because the risks were inadequately identified.

#1355
Tiax Rules All

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someguy1231 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

You have the words "not pretentious" in your thread title, and yet I find that very disclaimer pretentious. Oh the irony...


i had to write this because people apply false elitism to anything that contradicts them. and also people look at my Avatar and suddenly read my posts in a condescending tone, which is funny, and sad.

i guess its like "dont get me the wrong way"
saying that makes them get you the wrong way for sure


To me, it's akin to somebody saying "I'm not a racist but...", which of course is almost always a clear sign that yes, they are a racist. You write a thread with an incredibly pretentious title, and then tack on the words "not pretentious", which to me just makes you even more pretentious. In my experience, claiming that people don't "get it" is always the last resort of the desperate.


how would yo have worded the title to convey a message of explaination not education and ridicule?
i could have changed get it to "understand it"

i mean i literally says what it means.. YOU percieved it wrong, I cant help that. It comes from people feeling insecure and assuming anybody who tries to correct you or just simply try to explain a diff point of view, as being pretentious, holier then thou etc.

I mean even now you are going to think that i mean this as an insult, but its just the way we all work.

#1356
UKJackMan

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someguy1231 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

You have the words "not pretentious" in your thread title, and yet I find that very disclaimer pretentious. Oh the irony...


i had to write this because people apply false elitism to anything that contradicts them. and also people look at my Avatar and suddenly read my posts in a condescending tone, which is funny, and sad.

i guess its like "dont get me the wrong way"
saying that makes them get you the wrong way for sure


To me, it's akin to somebody saying "I'm not a racist but...", which of course is almost always a clear sign that yes, they are a racist. You write a thread with an incredibly pretentious title, and then tack on the words "not pretentious", which to me just makes you even more pretentious. In my experience, claiming that people don't "get it" is always the last resort of the desperate.



You dont get it was Shepards paragon answer when he tried talking the Illusive man down during the ending...Just saying

#1357
Tiax Rules All

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UKJackMan wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

You have the words "not pretentious" in your thread title, and yet I find that very disclaimer pretentious. Oh the irony...


i had to write this because people apply false elitism to anything that contradicts them. and also people look at my Avatar and suddenly read my posts in a condescending tone, which is funny, and sad.

i guess its like "dont get me the wrong way"
saying that makes them get you the wrong way for sure


To me, it's akin to somebody saying "I'm not a racist but...", which of course is almost always a clear sign that yes, they are a racist. You write a thread with an incredibly pretentious title, and then tack on the words "not pretentious", which to me just makes you even more pretentious. In my experience, claiming that people don't "get it" is always the last resort of the desperate.



You dont get it was Shepards paragon answer when he tried talking the Illusive man down during the ending...Just saying


lol, thanks for that

#1358
Smiley556

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Wether or not you find the OP pretentious is not relevant to the subject really. If you have no arguments to add to this topic, dont say anything. Your opinion about OP has been duly noted, lets continue discussing the ending.

#1359
Zeroscape

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I'd like to point out that until we get the official announcement and explanation of this "Ending DLC" everything here is speculation. This is less about proving a theory and more about realizing that something's up.

I am not convinced of all of Tiax' conclusions of what will happen in this new DLC. His reasoning that the Destroy ending is the only 'true ending' is also guesswork. Mass Effect has always been about allowing you to make your choices and dealing with the consequences. For all we know choosing Synthesis or Control will just make the player have to do an extra sequence where you realize your mistake and have to fight your way out. Or maybe Destroy will have some other unknown negative effect you have to deal with.

But the point is: We don't know! And as such I encourage people to take in everything here with a critical mind.

It could very well be an attempt at using indoctrination techniques to trick Shepard and it does seem to make the most sense, but it could be anything.

So what should you take away from this thread? Between the shoddy ending we have right now, the many plot holes that raise red flags, the cryptic developer tweets and the 'gasp for life' sequence... something is being planned and I personally believe it's a true ending to come.

The how and specifics are irrelevant. We could spend eternity looking for 'concrete facts' to build a 'infallible theory'. Bioware only gave us scraps of hints to tell us something is amiss. Otherwise the revelation of it all being a trick/dream/whatever would have no power!

As for questions such as:
"Will this potential DLC be free?"
"Why did they not include the true ending (if there is one coming) in the standard game to save a lot of fans grief and disappointment?"
"What are the consequences of our actions in this dream sequence on the 'real' world?"

We will just have to be patient. There's really not enough information in the game or from Bioware where we can answer a lot of our burning questions for certain.

You don't have to be convinced of anything, but you got to admit there's a lot of elements that support the theory that the endings we have are not 'it'.

We shall see.

Modifié par Zeroscape, 15 mars 2012 - 03:40 .


#1360
Tiax Rules All

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BoneNinja wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9992961


"We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game."

only important part in it. They need to release ME3 everywhere first (asia) then let them beat it, or they would be spoiling the ending for the fans. ESPECIALLY if indoc is true and the ending we have is made to be tricky.

I believe i will be vindicated soon.

#1361
UKJackMan

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If you look at Shepard's speech wheel when he first speaks to the Illusive man during the ending it has BLUE: You don't get it. RED: Were not the enemy here. TOP RIGHT: Don't do this.LOWER RIGHT: Control is pointless.

Are these clues?

Modifié par UKJackMan, 15 mars 2012 - 03:42 .


#1362
BoneNinja

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

BoneNinja wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9992961


"We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game."

only important part in it. They need to release ME3 everywhere first (asia) then let them beat it, or they would be spoiling the ending for the fans. ESPECIALLY if indoc is true and the ending we have is made to be tricky.

I believe i will be vindicated soon.


I took it similiarly. Between the other posted tweets from earlier, and now this. Something is obviously coming.

#1363
Tiax Rules All

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Zeroscape wrote...

I'd like to point out that until we get the official announcement and explanation of this "Ending DLC" everything here is speculation. This is less about proving a theory and more about realizing that something's up.

i can get on board with that...

I am not convinced of all of Tiax' conclusions of what will happen in this new DLC. His reasoning that the Destroy ending is the only 'true ending' is also guesswork. Mass Effect has always been about allowing you to make your choices and dealing with the consequences. For all we know choosing Synthesis or Control will just make the player have to do an extra sequence where you realize your mistake and have to fight your way out. Or maybe Destroy will have some other unknown negative effect you have to deal with.

i have since changed that thought, posted it here somewhere, just never adjusted the OP, there is nothing to say the DLC wont have multiple beggingis as well as ends. as you say, choosing poorly will not damn you but start you off with a whole set of differnt issues to deal with on your way to that final button.

But the point is: We don't know! And as such I encourage people to take in everything here with a critical mind.

It could very well be an attempt at using indoctrination techniques to trick Shepard and it does seem to make the most sense, but it could be anything.

So what should you take away from this thread? Between the shoddy ending we have right now, the many plot holes that raise red flags, the cryptic developer tweets and the 'gasp for life' sequence... something is being planned and I personally believe it's a true ending to come.

The how and specifics are irrelevant. We could spend eternity looking for 'concrete facts' to build a 'infallible theory'. Bioware only gave us scraps of hints to tell us something is amiss. Otherwise the revelation of it all being a trick/dream/whatever would have no power!

As for questions such as:
"Will this potential DLC be free?"
"Why did they not include the true ending (if there is one coming) in the standard game to save a lot of fans grief and disappointment?"
"What are the consequences of our actions in this dream sequence on the 'real' world?"

We will just have to be patient. There's really not enough information in the game or from Bioware where we can answer a lot of our burning questions for certain.

You don't have to be convinced of anything, but you got to admit there's a lot of elements that support the theory that the endings we have are not 'it'.

We shall see.


the rest is all good with me too.

#1364
Smiley556

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

BoneNinja wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9992961


"We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game."

only important part in it. They need to release ME3 everywhere first (asia) then let them beat it, or they would be spoiling the ending for the fans. ESPECIALLY if indoc is true and the ending we have is made to be tricky.

I believe i will be vindicated soon.


Hang in there :blush:

#1365
Tiax Rules All

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UKJackMan wrote...

If you look at Shepard's speech wheel when he first speaks to the Illusive man during the ending it has BLUE: You don't get it. RED: Were not the enemy here. TOP RIGHT: Don't do this.LOWER RIGHT: Control is pointless.

Are these clues?

the whole fcuking thing is a clue, why do thesethings not make sense? becasue they are made not to..
how does one know hes in a dream? its not easy to think logically in a dream, wierd things happen and you are lead to believe they are real.

Bioware wrote the indoctrination sequence so well that people accept face value when they actually should have written it with even more obvious holes  so even the blind squirells can find the nuts..

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 03:53 .


#1366
jameshawking

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

jameshawking wrote...

Shepard was Indoctrinated. Right.

And Squall died at the end of Disc 1 of FF8



LITERALLY what you are saying is that you would prefer the entire ending be a DREAM and non-existent than what they actually are.


im not saying I want it to be, im saying it is. Sorta, i mean you simplified it and belittled it but basically.

Are we going to actually HEAR peoples ego's shattering worldwide when they announce the DLC, read the twitter posts here
Chris Priestly
twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872
Jessica Merizan
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152
The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936

Bioware told me.. now im telling you

No, I didn't belittle it, at all.  You said, literally, that the last 30 minutes of the game (or so) was nothing more than a battle inside Shepard's head.  Apparently people get indoctrinated by getting blasted with lasers, too.  Which is simply not the case, but moving on.

Literally, Shepard sacrificing himself, starchild, TIM and Anderson dying is all part of Shepard's battle inside his head.  Literally, meaning, none of it actually happened but rather is just some psuedo-conscious dream-state.

Literally you'd prefer, or you say, that the last half hour of the game never happened at all.  The reapers just failed to indoctrinate Shepard, which rasies the question:

Okay, wtf happened then?

Oh, wait, so we don't actually have an ending on-disc?  What the hell Bioware?  They sold us a game that they knew was incomplete, chopped Javik out of it and sold him to use for 10 bucks when he was literally on-disc (which means they lopped him out of it so they can sell him to us) and that they know, explicitly, is just bs.  If you're right then they're just stringing them along.

Which means not only am I pissed, with reason, at being given an incomplete game, I'm pissed directly at the makers of the game for purposely giving me said game knowing it wasn't the whole thing and that they want to string me along for more DLC.

In any event BioWare screwed us.

#1367
Egonne

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

evisneffo wrote...

So Tiax, if your theory is correct - and I don't fault your defence - this game I have is a conclusion to the saga without a conclusion. The question of future DLC is irrelevant: the game, advertised and sold as an ending, is incomplete. Pardon me if I say this doesn't make me feel any better.


it has and ending, a twist ending that leads into further content but an ending.

Thats what Bioware will tell you, anyways if i buy ME3 and they realease ME3.1 to me for free.. then who cares they are giving you and ending just a tad later at no extra cost, why you mad?


I don't think they COULD release the real ending with the game and accomplish the same effect.  If the indoctrination theory is true (and in my mind this seem likely) then having Shepard wakes up 30 seconds after making the destroy/control/synthesis decision simply wouldn't have the same impact.

MAYBE if they had rolled the credits THEN finished the game with Shepard waking up it would have worked, but I think it would have greatly diminished the ending.

They HAD to hold onto the ending to let players be fooled; the same way Sixth Sense and Beautiful Mind couldn't reveal their 'twist' until the very end.  The illusion needs time to simmer in order for there to be an 'aha' moment worthy of the illusion.

#1368
bobito64

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I am beginning to think that Bioware may have done something very brave but quite brilliant here. Create an ending that is immediately unsatisfying and somewhat ambiguous. Then let the fans firstly rage and then start to discuss possibilities that it might be more than it seems and there might yet be more to come. The OP is an excellent contribution to this discussion by the way. Once the debate and speculation has had time to work its magic, they unleash the full ending as DLC.

If this is truly what they are doing then I for one will download the DLC when it arrives. If it's the ending that Mass Effect deserves then making us wait for it while we wonder and speculate at what is actually going on will make it all the more exciting when it does arrive.

#1369
bobito64

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One other point. Throughout the game (and in ME2) the option to replay the last mission is always listed among the saves. These "Restart Mission" saves always begin with you selecting your team before leaving Normandy.

After the game ends you have a Restart Mission save not for London, as you might expect, but for Citadel: The Return. They have made it very easy for us to play the final minutes of the game again and again, experiencing all options and looking for clues.

#1370
BWGungan

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I get it OP, I was listening to the comm chatter too.  That is the only ray of hope I have for any kind of closure in the future through DLC, because without it the endings are so bad that I feel empty and betrayed.

Modifié par BWGungan, 15 mars 2012 - 04:03 .


#1371
UKJackMan

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Tiax Rules All wrote...

UKJackMan wrote...

If you look at Shepard's speech wheel when he first speaks to the Illusive man during the ending it has BLUE: You don't get it. RED: Were not the enemy here. TOP RIGHT: Don't do this.LOWER RIGHT: Control is pointless.

Are these clues?

the whole fcuking thing is a clue, why do thesethings not make sense? becasue they are made not to..
how does one know hes in a dream? its not easy to think logically in a dream, wierd things happen and you are lead to believe they are real.

Bioware wrote the indoctrination sequence so well that people accept face value when they actually should have written it with even more obvious holes  so even the blind squirells can find the nuts..


The more I look the more clues I see . Another part of the ending speech wheel  YOU ARE BLIND Another BLUE:You didnt earn this power. Oh boy am I going to have fun picking this apart............

#1372
Azgoroth

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truth be told we will never know what is what until Chris or someone tells us what is what. Tiax has a great idea that HAS MERIT, you don't have to agree with it. In fact I don't even think he said "you have to believe it." He is trying to put out that maybe Bioware didn't screw us as much as we think they did. They are known to take games to the next level.

Whether or not the ending haters hate or the trollers troll, I'm going to stick by bioware until the conference or discussion or whatever it is they are going to be doing about this. Chris doesn't write "we are taking what you said into consideration" just because he can. I've been reading the forums that chris has closed down and they have been pretty ridiculous. (Though the my little pony spin-off was sheer genius)

I agree with Tiax, that's not saying you all have to, but you can at least show some respect by not trying to say he's an idiot for thinking the way he does and deciding to post it to see who else might turn to his way of thinking.

The way I see it, it's a helluva a lot better to think that Bioware might be trying something brave, then trying to let us all down.

#1373
Zeroscape

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bobito64 wrote...

I am beginning to think that Bioware may have done something very brave but quite brilliant here. Create an ending that is immediately unsatisfying and somewhat ambiguous. Then let the fans firstly rage and then start to discuss possibilities that it might be more than it seems and there might yet be more to come. The OP is an excellent contribution to this discussion by the way. Once the debate and speculation has had time to work its magic, they unleash the full ending as DLC.

If this is truly what they are doing then I for one will download the DLC when it arrives. If it's the ending that Mass Effect deserves then making us wait for it while we wonder and speculate at what is actually going on will make it all the more exciting when it does arrive.


I agree with you on that. Only problem is that there's a lot of fans in uproar, have returned their copies and are depressed. While it's easy to point and laugh, the endings we have right now are difficult for a lot of invested fans to swallow.

I guess they wanted more time to finish their new ending after the leak last year. More likely still is that this was always planned. ME3 puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that Shepard is feeling the emotional strain of his journey. He is haunted by the memories from Earth and the fact he cannot save everyone.

The Reapers know first hand how much of a speed bump (since I don't believe Reapers regard anyone as a true threat)  Shepard has become. Corrupting the galaxy's point man in the resistance -should- be a top priority. The fact that Shepard is seen as extremely strong willed helps makes sense why Reapers can't completely take him over right away. But then we have no way of knowing for sure when they started messing with our Shep.

Chances are they were applying extra pressure on him ever since their invasion and the nightmares of the kid as you play the game are a way for the Reapers to add extra pressure on Shep. Whittle down his mental/emotional strength until a critical moment where his body suffers severe trauma (Harby beam) and they can take hold in his mind.

#1374
Azgoroth

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Egonne wrote...

I don't think they COULD release the real ending with the game and accomplish the same effect.  If the indoctrination theory is true (and in my mind this seem likely) then having Shepard wakes up 30 seconds after making the destroy/control/synthesis decision simply wouldn't have the same impact.

MAYBE if they had rolled the credits THEN finished the game with Shepard waking up it would have worked, but I think it would have greatly diminished the ending.

They HAD to hold onto the ending to let players be fooled; the same way Sixth Sense and Beautiful Mind couldn't reveal their 'twist' until the very end.  The illusion needs time to simmer in order for there to be an 'aha' moment worthy of the illusion.


I agree, I mean if we take this idea....which has been hinted at ever since you finish the mission with Jacob, Hell even since you finished the mission on MARS, you know that indoctrination is going to play a HUGE part in the story, why WOULDNT they make it into a ending?  The made you Revan! They made you a child of Bhaal! Why couldn't they attempt to indoctrinate you?

#1375
Tiax Rules All

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jameshawking wrote...

No, I didn't belittle it, at all.  You said, literally, that the last 30 minutes of the game (or so) was nothing more than a battle inside Shepard's head.  Apparently people get indoctrinated by getting blasted with lasers, too.  Which is simply not the case, but moving on.


from OP
That (supposed to be) eye opening moment is supposed to tell you that Shepard was never on the Citadel. He lies just where he was knocked out by the destroyer blast, in the rubble of London. This is where the confusion takes place.

Everything that happens after the destroyer hits Shepard during his charge is a combination of a dying Shepard's hallucinations and reaper indoctrination trying to take over. Right after the blast, Shepard wakes with his armor half blown off. This is not just cut scene fubar, this is the start of his indoctrination fight when everything is slightly off, as in a dream (because it is)

If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.
-----
aditionally the blast does not indoctrinate him. He was weakended phsicaly and mentally, Hes dying, unconscience, brain cells still firing, like a scientist trying to explain seeing the light or talking to god in a near death experience. He brain is hallucinating his body carrying on the fight because hes just that BOSS. its that ALSO mixed with Harbingers sheer proximity to shep, (yards away), harby is now focusing COMPLETLY on shepard now. This is Harbys best chance for indoc, so its not a hallucination or indoc attempt, its a little of both. but its NOT real. if you choose correctly and get the "breath" ending, then shep has still never been indoctrinated, he has defeated the ATTEMPT.

Literally, Shepard sacrificing himself, starchild, TIM and Anderson dying is all part of Shepard's battle inside his head.  Literally, meaning, none of it actually happened but rather is just some psuedo-conscious dream-state.

Literally you'd prefer, or you say, that the last half hour of the game never happened at all.  The reapers just failed to indoctrinate Shepard, which rasies the question:

Okay, wtf happened then?


thats a different story for a different topic. one thats will be answered once we all play the DLC for oursleves. I can only say this, the breath proves to me that the indoc attempt scene and epilogue was not REAL. what is, is that Shep is hurt, BAD, and in London. Logically never actually going to the citadel etc.

Oh, wait, so we don't actually have an ending on-disc?  What the hell Bioware?  They sold us a game that they knew was incomplete, chopped Javik out of it and sold him to use for 10 bucks when he was literally on-disc (which means they lopped him out of it so they can sell him to us) and that they know, explicitly, is just bs.  If you're right then they're just stringing them along.

Which means not only am I pissed, with reason, at being given an incomplete game, I'm pissed directly at the makers of the game for purposely giving me said game knowing it wasn't the whole thing and that they want to string me along for more DLC.

In any event BioWare screwed us.


just because an ending doesn't have answeres and leaves more questions, doesn't mean its not an ending. and its not the Real ending anyways, and if the DLC is FREE as i believe it will be (quote me on that) then what reason now do you have to complain? what if the leaked script forced them to write a new ending, what if this was the plan?

ME3 for 59.99 plus ) 0.00 for dlc   put them together in on continuaous playable game, and now you have 2 endings in the game for the price of one..

Its all a matter of perspective.