Tiax Rules All wrote...
I cant prove what hasn't happened yet. When they release the DLC I will be right, simple as that. I can't prove the DLC... but it WILL be proven.
Well, my second playthrough I did choose destroy, but there was no celebration. In fact the troops were killed by that Reaper and the planet incinerated. (Yes, low assets score.) Doesn't contradict the theory though.Tiax Rules All wrote...
(...)This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, (...)
Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 15 mars 2012 - 11:27 .
Tiax Rules All wrote...
Bioware told me.. now im telling you
Tiax Rules All wrote...
do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised?
Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Good opening post. True theory or not, some things are not right from the moment Shepard (apparently) gets up.Well, my second playthrough I did choose destroy, but there was no celebration. In fact the troops were killed by that Reaper and the planet incinerated. Doesn't contradict the theory though.Tiax Rules All wrote...
(...)This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, (...)
Modifié par Egonne, 15 mars 2012 - 11:28 .
Meltemph wrote...
Qareen wrote...
I have a theory that Tiax is actually Casey Hudson in disguise. Playing with us.
hahaha, oh wow. No, Tiax has been around "these" boards since the orginal NWN days. If he really is Casey Hudson then he is the most masochistic BW employee I know of.
Modifié par DragonRageGT, 15 mars 2012 - 11:25 .
Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Good opening post. True theory or not, some things are not right from the moment Shepard (apparently) gets up.Well, my second playthrough I did choose destroy, but there was no celebration. In fact the troops were killed by that Reaper and the planet incinerated. Doesn't contradict the theory though.Tiax Rules All wrote...
(...)This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, (...)
annoyingpoodle wrote...
Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Good opening post. True theory or not, some things are not right from the moment Shepard (apparently) gets up.Well, my second playthrough I did choose destroy, but there was no celebration. In fact the troops were killed by that Reaper and the planet incinerated. Doesn't contradict the theory though.Tiax Rules All wrote...
(...)This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, (...)
That shouldn't have happened when you picked destroy. are your war assets low?
R3MUS wrote...
The problem is not really the endings for me. But i want some kind of Dragon Age/Band of Brothers epilogue where there is at least a text or something that says what happened with the species, planets and my squadmates almost right after the ending.
shyprincess17 wrote...
R3MUS wrote...
The problem is not really the endings for me. But i want some kind of Dragon Age/Band of Brothers epilogue where there is at least a text or something that says what happened with the species, planets and my squadmates almost right after the ending.
i wanted that dragon age epilogue too, and those memories shepard has after he does whatever option he chooses only had memories of a few people like Anderson, Heckett, Joker, and Liara, i wish it included some of the happy memories with the LI...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
[update]
Chris Priestly
twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872
Jessica Merizan
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152
The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
[OP Proper]
I am making this post in an honest attempt to help people understand and appreciate the endings more. I personally feel after reading posts here and hearing from friends that, most of this anger over the endings is caused because they did not see the over 4000 asset "destroy" option ending.
I hope to make a complete and easy explanation of the ending, comment if you think I need to adjust or add to it.
This post does not apply to those who just don't like it because of its lack of detailed epilogue.
First of all there is one ending that is the real ending and all other endings are tricks and illusions. In fact the only REAL ending in the whole game is if you pick the destroy option with over 4000 assets. The real ending is only that 20 seconds they show of Shepard in the rubble and then takes a breath.
That (supposed to be) eye opening moment is supposed to tell you that Shepard was never on the Citadel. He lies just where he was knocked out by the destroyer blast, in the rubble of London. This is where the confusion takes place.
Everything that happens after the destroyer hits Shepard during his charge is a combination of a dying Shepard's hallucinations and reaper indoctrination trying to take over. Right after the blast, Shepard wakes with his armor half blown off. This is not just cut scene fubar, this is the start of his indoctrination fight when everything is slightly off, as in a dream (because it is)
If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.
After he reaches the Citadel there is more oddness that should be setting off triggers for the player that something is not right, that this is an illusion... Anderson describes shifting walls and only ever agrees with Shep on his surroundings after Shep describes his and saying "like the collector base you described". Everything is just a projection from Shepard's mind and subconscious.
When you are having the conversation with TIM and Anderson, It's all just again Sheps subconscious reminding himself and the player about indoctrination and what happens when you stop fighting it... you lose control (shoot Anderson) This is similar to the nightmares Shep has of the boy. This is the game through Shep's subconscious telling you do not follow the kid, you will burn (kid goes up in flames). And the last one when you see she with the kid and they both burn. Again telling you, no matter what happens you will get burned by trusting the kid.
There are more allusions to not trusting Cerberus/reapers throughout the game as well. You really start to see them after you understand the indoctrination ending. For example: TIM talking to Kai Lang says "Shepard was always going to stay true to his ideals" subtlety suggesting that the player should do the same and not let TIM/reapers compromise you destroying the reapers. The goal you have had since the very beginning. Also before the attack on Cerberus base I believe, there is a quantum comm. call between you and Hackett. You have the option of saying something like "what if TIM is right and the reapers CAN be controlled" and Hackett shoots you down. Gives you a direct order to kill TIM and destroy reapers. No questions asked. Once again, game trying to remind you of the one true goal and keep you focused.
Now about the Catalyst and the crucible conversation and decision itself... By this time indoctrination is very close to taking over. The end is near. The catalyst looks like the little boy because of shep's subconscious and indoctrination is feeding off that. Everything in this scene is A LIE. The choices and how they are presented to you are all part of the deception to get Shepard to give his mind into indoctrination and lose the will to fight it.
You are presented first with the destroy option. He says "I KNOW you have been thinking of destroying us but..." The catalyst is scared, knows that its only chance is to manipulate Shepard here and now. It's painted in renegade red to through you off. This is purposefully done to manipulate Shepard's decision to fight. He tells you all synthetic life will be wiped out, including Geth and including Shepard because he is partially cybernetic himself. In sales you always present the worst option first and the best for last. So the next 2 options can then be presented and made more appealable.
the other 2 options do not let you ever see Shepard "alive" at the end so to me BOTH of these options are fails and result in you being indoctrinated and/or dying right there on the streets of London. Without that last breath scene. There can be no happy ending. I will elaborate on them a bit more separately.
Synthesis was in the middle and last option presented, this is what they ultimately want. He even likened the synthesis to husks in his description. The reapers want to harvest organics and change them into hybrids. By choosing synthesis you would be doing their work for them in an instant. Basically I see this as total fail ending, you have been played.
Now the control option was not presented as prominently as the synthesis but was still painted in paragon blue and offered as an option still better then destroy. In the end the result for choosing this is the same behind the scenes. Shepard gave into indoctrination/death and you do not get the breath tidbit.
So if you choose destroy like I believe we are somewhat intended to, remember that the explosion cut scene and relays exploding and Normandy running/crashing ALL OF THAT IS STILL HALLUCINATION. This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, and he imagines and ending for companions. The lush new planet-scape is just a metaphor for starting over and them being at peace. That's why immediately after they show Shep waking up, to solidify the dream idea.
At that point you are supposed to start thinking about what really happened. Shepard is alive, on Earth, has conquered indoctrination. Another HUGE thing is that after destroying the reapers you were supposed to be dead. Recalling the little boy "you will die as you are partly synthetic". When you wake up after that in the rubble, it should be a clear indication that you have been lied to. You did not die like the boy said you would, he just said that to dissuade you. The rest is left even more ambiguous but...
I personally believe that Shepard's job ended there. His companions who followed him at the last rush are dead beside him not suddenly on the Normandy and suddenly in a new system living happily ever after. That only happens in dreamsHe gathered the forces needed to beat the reapers. And it's the allied forces of the galaxy that ultimately stop the reapers. And that force would never have been formed without Shepard. As the stargazer after the credits says "the details have been lost to history" and there is still "one more story" to tell. So even though Shep was never on the citadel, the idea that Shep is a legend and is credited in destroying the reapers is true.
Love it or hate it, I whole heartedly believe that we will see DLC in the future that will start with Shepard taking that breath in the rubble. It will be something like Waking up after beating indoctrination and actually concluding the story in a more definitive way. And possibly a lot more "happy" though I'm more interested in "real" then some contrived happiness.
TL;DR (oh come on read above, its good
2 parts, first everything that happens between Shepard getting hit by the destroyer eye blast during the London charge and the "take a breath" scene (that you only get by choosing correct choices and having high enough EMF) Is a hallucination/indoctrination process that Shepard is fighting in his head.
There is only one real ending, the ending you have been groomed for since the beginning. Destroy the reapers at all costs. All other endings that do not have Shepard alive at the end are lies. They are illusions and means that Shepard gave into indoctrination and never awoke back on earth to realize this. And the player doesn't understand.
All the supposed plot holes can be explained by this. See examples above. Ask me questions if you have them, I will try to clarify for you in comments.
Also if you would rather watch 3 minutes of youtube, this is a rather good but not totally complete ending explaination. I approve
FINAL NOTE
I love this ending because of what Bioware did. They actually indoctrinated their own customers. They made and ending where you the player play through a real-time indoctrination of not just your character but of the player. They presented the ending in such a way that you had to fight indoctrination right along with Shepard. The game actively tries to fool you and manipulate your decisions away from the "best" and ONLY true ending, this is no typical ending by any shot and they did this KNOWING that their fan base might not understand it and take what they showed us at face value. Those people will never get why their ending doesn't make sense and will be angry unnecessarily. For those like myself though. I feel like it's a twist worthy of the best games/movies out there and that some ambiguity is better than the spelled out epilogue slideshow at the end.
(update) Thread discussing Shep lives ending /rubble scene (with pics and vids)hex23 wrote...
The problem with that is, Bioware has been tweeting nonstop hinting that we don't have the full picture.
Look at this Chris Priestly tweet from today:
twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179967731070799872
Jessica Merizan:
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179808402011193344
twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/179828285327409152
The official "Mass Effect" twitter from Bioware:
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179680647869243392
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179681231766695936
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832
twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179682383304462338
This has been going on nonstop for the last 2 days. Some might say "oh, this is PR"....but you can't really. PR wouldn't get that specific about us not understanding what we've seen, yet.
ronbo_68 wrote...
Here is a question for everyone. I don't know Tiax but i do believe he has stated in another thread he started that if he is wrong about this, he will apologize to everyone.
the ending is not in the game.
Dhraconus wrote...
I read the OP and have this to say:
I considered that possibility but that all means, A) Shepard failed, full stop. or
I don't know about you but I'm not really okay with either of those options. If Shepard failed on the "best ending" it still means everything you did/do is useless. Reapers win, you suck, period. If the ending is not in the game then.... yeah...
Bowie Hawkins wrote...
ronbo_68 wrote...
Here is a question for everyone. I don't know Tiax but i do believe he has stated in another thread he started that if he is wrong about this, he will apologize to everyone.
And yet in the meanwhile he's continuing to be rude and condescending to those who disagree with him.
I was like, "Huh?! Uh What?!?" Do I fully believe in the indoctrination theory? No, I am still skeptical but I admit it makes a heck of a lot of sense. Watching twitter and reading articles I would like to believe BW is up to something. But none of us on either side of this discussion should be getting smug or condescending to each other because unless one of us works for BW, no one knows right now what is going on. And the game has only been out for a couple weeks now? So as time goes more people will finish and I am sure the furor will continue.Modifié par ronbo_68, 16 mars 2012 - 07:34 .
Bowie Hawkins wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
do you ever see EDI dying? do you see geth vaporised?
If you choose the "destroy" option you don't see EDI or the Geth at all in the aftermath, so arguing that not seeing them die proves nothing is at best unconvincing.
Tiax Rules All wrote...
This is the absolute best thing I have ever seen. Everybody do yourself a favor and watch this. It should have its own Thread/ Fanpage whatever.
RBK423K wrote...
If the indoctrination theory is right, if everything between the Reaper blast and Shepard's breath is an illusion, then how did actually Shepard defeat the Reapers? Simply by resisting indoctrination and WILLING to destroy the Reapers? Is that enough to take all these monsters down? Just willpower???
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