1594 réponses à ce sujet

[Golferguy758]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I added, deleted and re-worked a few things into the OP.

i still aim to compile a good collection of ID Theory stuff here.


Oh and I want to change the thread title, a little or completely, IDK but im taking suggestions for the name.

How about http://t2.gstatic.co...z3rEjm1knr-J49Q

[nevar00]

All the supposed plot holes can be explained by this.

What about the holes that don't exactly involve Harbinger's blast and everything afterwards? Like how everyone had the plans for the Crucible involving the Catalyst if only the Catalyst and the Reapers knew about its existence in the first place? And why there was an opening from the Citadel on Earth: why was that there and why wasn't it shut off?

I actually think the Indocrination Theory is possible, however unless we get an actual ending, it is still crap.

Modifié par nevar00, 21 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[Blindspy]

Golferguy758 wrote...

How about http://t2.gstatic.co...z3rEjm1knr-J49Q

Unrelated to the thread, but I totally forgot about how awesome Bill Nye was when I was growing up.  Thank you!

[Bombe]

I really can't buy into the Indoctrination Theory. It really just smacks of grasping at straws, to me. While there are definitely some valid points, I just don't buy it. I think it's great the effort people have put into it, but if anything it leaves MORE holes for me than before.

[FellishBeast]

Cherie Bombe wrote...

I really can't buy into the Indoctrination Theory. It really just smacks of grasping at straws, to me. While there are definitely some valid points, I just don't buy it. I think it's great the effort people have put into it, but if anything it leaves MORE holes for me than before.

On the contrary. It fills those holes perfectly.

Just name it something more concise, like "Ending Explanation" or something like that.

[N-Seven]

Like a fat lady in a milkshake shop.

[Bombe]

FellishBeast wrote...

Cherie Bombe wrote...

I really can't buy into the Indoctrination Theory. It really just smacks of grasping at straws, to me. While there are definitely some valid points, I just don't buy it. I think it's great the effort people have put into it, but if anything it leaves MORE holes for me than before.

On the contrary. It fills those holes perfectly.

Just name it something more concise, like "Ending Explanation" or something like that.

See, I wouldn't call the Indoc Theory concise at all. It really involves a lot of reading into things, double meanings and implications. None of which has been used in the series before. I just don't think Bioware would finish the series with an ending that most didn't understand until they have someone explain it to them. It seems out of character and convoluted. I'm not a stupid person, nor am I the smartest, but the Indoc Theory makes me feel like a complete idiot (if it's true). I may be wrong, in which case I take my hat off to everyone who is smarter than me, but it just doesn't sit right. Until I have an official word, though, I'm taking the ending at face value.

Modifié par Cherie Bombe, 21 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[akuma1973]

Tiax Rules All wrote...


I am making this post in an honest attempt to help people understand and appreciate the endings more. I personally feel after reading posts here and hearing from friends that, most of this anger over the endings is caused because they did not see the over 4000 asset "destroy" option ending.

<Snip Bioware apologist ramblings. >

 I had over 7000 EMS and I still got a crap ending, the very last dialogue choices I had with TIM the paragon and Renegade options were greyed out. I could not select them, I had more than maxed out my paragon and had 50% Renegade. I chose destroy because that was my mission, even though I could clearly see the combined fleet I had amassed destroying reaper after reaper in the background.

My perfect choice would have been to space the star child and let hackett know the crucible was a reaper trap and to order the fleet to open up with everything they had and blast those sons of ****es from the galaxy. My other perfect choice would have been to tell the Star child to link me into the reapers comms so I could tell them I have the means to destroy them unless they get the hell out of my Galaxy and never return.

Those two options are much smarter choices for my Shep. But neither was given.

[Bravenu3]

Here's another small detail that might support the Indoctrination Theory: When Shep "wakes up" in front of the beam, we see the Reaper ships ascending. This makes little sense in the situation that is described in the radio chatter: friendlies regrouping. Since they/Shep just before took down the Reaper guarding the beam, why should Harbinger and its reinforcements leave and let the beam unguarded again?

I didn't read through all the previous pages. Apologies if it was mentioned before.

[Mobius-Silent]

Indoctrination theory is well crafted fanfic. It's absolutely clear that is is not even remotely what Bioware intended. It's fun, but false

[heathxxx]

I posted this thread today: http://social.biowar.../index/10512181

heathxxx wrote...

Yes... HOPE.

The one word and
plot anchor that spanned all three games, was integral in Shepard's
interactions with most of the characters and featured clearly, right to
the very end sequences.

Surprised how many people forgot or lost
"hope" because of how the ending(s) panned out. Granted, the endings
were virtually all the same, but if we can accept that Shepard was
"indoctrinated" or simply hallucinating following the point after the
explosion and entering the beam, why is it so difficult to understand
the intention of the ending(s).

Shepard even uses the word
"hope" during his/her conversation with the catylist. Hope is intrinsic
in the personality of Shepard. It's helped him/her through three
instalments of the game.

No matter what "colour" you chose at the
end, the "magic getaway" of the Normandy seems little else than the
final "hope" in the mind of Shepard, that friends got away and survived,
because in his/her minds eye, he/she made the right choice. Before
he/she either dies, or takes a breath, depending what you chose.

It's the most simple way to explain the ending, even if it does also account for the subconscious indoctrination/hallucination in the ending sequences.

It's hope that's pulled Shepard through all three instalments of the game and it's also where his "end" is portrayed in those final sequences.

Whatever choice he/she makes, be they Control or Synthesis (false hope), or Destroy (true hope), we see the final "hopes" in the minds eye of our protagonist, based on the final choice they made. For Shepard, hope is integral to the personality of their character, right to the end. Whichever choice you made, it was "right" in the "hope" of Shepard.

Hope is the core of the plot throughout the journey, throughout the story, throughout all three instalments.

I was satisfied with how the endings panned out, because after some pause for consideration, this important part of the plot and character of Shepard is what we saw from start to finish.

That said and though I don't believe the endings themselves should be changed, I do think that a more detailed "epilogue" or "Scooby Doo Ending", might explain things much more clearly for a great many people. Perhaps the endings were simply too vague for mass consumption.

On the theme of "hope" being integral here, my suggestion might be to include a sort of flashback sequence of key conversations, of which there are countless, that include the words "hope" or "hopes". Whilst this might be difficult to implement graphically, what with the face import problems people have experienced, maybe just a vocal recollection in the background of the Normandy crash scene.

This could then be followed by an epilogue of some description, that offers "closure" based on which of the three options Shepard chose... because as many already suspect/know or are comfortable with, the whole ending sequence was indoctrination/hallucination.

Modifié par heathxxx, 23 mars 2012 - 03:30 .

[miro4D2]

Thanks so much! I was bummed after finishing the game, but when I started reading the OP things started to fall into place. So I just went through the ending of the game again (man, I hate not being able to save when I want to; rewatching unskippable dialogue is a pain) and the Indoctrination Theory is sound. The biggest case is that the Catalyst refers to itself as "we" and "us" as the Reapers do. He says I know you've thought about destroying "us". If the Catalyst is a device to destroy the Reapers it wouldn't include itself as being part of the Reapers, right? Also the Catalyst spouts the exact same crap that Sovereign spouted in Mass Effect 1 (I think) and I'm pretty sure Harbinger did in ME2 as well about being the order to chaos (also in one of the books a Reaper says the same things but I'm trying to keep in context of game only stuff).
There are a few points about your post that don't jive, though, at least not with my ending. When Shep gets on the Citadel, Anderson says he followed him up, not came up before him. He also mentions seeing the chasm and the control panel before Shep even gets to those parts. I'm not saying this would disprove the Indoctrination Theory, just that my experience was different than what you wrote.
As to grasping at straws, I disagree. Grasping at straws means drawing conclusions from more than the information (or evidence) that's in front of you. There is so much here that would indicate Indoctrination that it doesn't seem like it could be anything else. While BioWare hasn't wowed me with anything since the first Mass Effect, it's not unthinkable that they'd devise such a brilliant ending. Look at the twist in KOTOR.
Also, why would stuff blow up? That has to be one of the worst saviour devices ever invented. Just a thought.

[AlanC9]

I'm necroing this out of pure IT nostalgia.

[AlexMBrennan]

Isn't that a bit like shooting fish in a barrel? Why don't you go make fun of the "the world ends in 2012" crowd?

Re OP: If you have to explicitly specify that you are not being pretentious... odd are that you are

[Reorte]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm necroing this out of pure IT nostalgia.

Planning on selling it for dissection?

[AlanC9]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Isn't that a bit like shooting fish in a barrel? Why don't you go make fun of the "the world ends in 2012" crowd?

Hey, I didn't dig this up on purpose. Someone - I won't say who -  linked to it in another thread today. I don't know if he was trying to get IT into that thread by stealth, or what.

Dissection? Sure. If we're to avoid further outbreaks of this plague, we need to understand it.

[mass perfection]

Nope, the ending sucks.

[adayaday]

Ironic how things turned out.

[BioWareMod02]

And I'm locking this thread out of pure mod nostalgia.