85 réponses à ce sujet

[Tachio]

lucidfox wrote...

I really think you give BioWare too much credit.

I could live with the gravity being a mistake, but breathing in space? Come on...

[Lambchopz]

lucidfox wrote...

I really think you give BioWare too much credit.

Probably.

Also, added the gravity/air thing and the part about Joker.

Time to go to bed.

[Fat Head]

I'm not totally convinced on this theory being real, but I am glad that it's here. In the event that Bioware doesn't release something providing closure, I'll probably be adopting this as canon for my Shepard. It's allowed me to see past the ending as it is and enjoy the rest of the otherwise stellar game again.


So, thanks for this.

[lucidfox]

[quote]Tachio wrote...
BioWare too much credit.[/quote]

I could live with the gravity being a mistake, but breathing in space? Come on...

[/quote]
Well, let's compare two theories: that the current ending is:

a) A silent conspiracy by BioWare, making players scratch their heads until, in a moment of brilliance, they declare "Haha, fooled you!", point at all the plot holes they intentionally left in to hint at the scenario being a hallucination, and then deliver the real ending to the applause of the masses.

Lazy writing.

I think it's obvious which explanation is favored by Occam's Razor.

[nullobject]

lucidfox wrote...
Well, let's compare two theories: that the current ending is:

a) A silent conspiracy by BioWare, making players scratch their heads until, in a moment of brilliance, they declare "Haha, fooled you!", point at all the plot holes they intentionally left in to hint at the scenario being a hallucination, and then deliver the real ending to the applause of the masses.

Lazy writing.

I think it's obvious which explanation is favored by Occam's Razor.

+1

This is the Denial stage of grieving. ("This can't be the real ending!")

Plus a bit of the Bargaining stage. ("I'll gladly pay for $20 DLC if it contains the real proper ending")

Face it guys, the Endingtron 3000 [TM] (recently also featured in DX:HR), is working as intended.

[slimshedim]

Lukertin wrote...

slimshedim wrote...

So, how comes the Prothean VIs on Ilos and Thessia didn't detect any sign of indoctrination at all and all of a sudden Shepard's indoctrinatet in the finale despite the game not giving us a single clue that he could be/could have been/could become indoctrinated?

When the gameplay trailer with the vent kid was first released, someone came up with a theory that Shepard is slowly getting indoctrinated and the kid is symbolizing the Reapers playing with his mind. 

Shepard has seen more Reaper tech than anyone else in the Galaxy. He was inside a wrecked Reaper and didn't get indoctrinated - unlike the scientists there. Why should he become indoctrinated all of a sudden?

The scientists were there for weeks. Shepard was there for a few hours. Serious question?

Yes. Shepard probably spent more time around Reaper tech/living Reapers than anyone else in the galaxy. During the entire ME series there wasn't a single clue that Shepard could be/become indoctrinated nor was there a hint that the story could end up like that. You people just try to justify a poor ending and to interpret something when there's actually nothing to interpret. They can't release a game unfinished and add an ending with DLC, be it for free or not because selling games unfinished is just retarded and probably the biggest insult in the history of video games for every single ME fan out there.

Modifié par slimshedim, 13 mars 2012 - 01:34 .

[nullobject]

Some parsimonious counter theories to the convoluted ones in the OP:

1) Perhaps someone at Bioware suggested the "deep breath" scene to serve a purpose similar to the "stargazer" scene - a semi-serious, 4th wall breaking easter egg referring to Shepard surviving and going through the story again in New Game + mode. "Stargazer" only triggers on 2nd playthroughs - or if you imported a character from ME2. Perhaps "Deep Breath" was only supposed to trigger in similar circumstances. Perhaps at a later point the trigger conditions were changed. No-one expected players to read anything in to it.

2) The sound files of Joker attacking a Reaper are left over from a planned additional component to the end sequence. In the original plan there is a two-pronged ending sequence: Shepard is activating an ancient device on the Citadel, and the Normandy is fighting a Reaper in space. (This would be just like the ME1 finale). The end of this space battle sequence would for some reason require the Normandy to enter the Charon mass relay. The "race against colored space magic" sequence in the ending(s) is all that remains of this sequence, the rest was cut for time/budget/pacing reasons. (With a few additions, this could also explain the non-sequitur appearance of squad members from the final London fight on the Normandy after crash landing)

[DarkBladeX98]

this all seems incredibly legit and I enjoyed reading, and it checks out,
But I think in this case we are thinking harder that BioWare was.

[Catroi]

Bioware are the masters of video-game writing, I hope they tell us we are right...
Because if they don't I think I'll be over with buying new video-games :'(

[Mixxer5]

Great thread, good to have it organised. Also it's nice fun to see my brother watching ending with complete "WTF" on his face. Still- I'd rather prefer better ending.

[CrasVox]

I like the theory. I have serious doubts that it was the original intent of Bioware. I really do, but I like the thoery, I like how it fits so well with what we have seen, and I think that should the game continue to stand with these endings, it will be this interpretation that will stant as the common belief.

Bioware can say all they want, the community at large seems now to think that Shepard never did make it to the conduit beam. He was blasted by that Reaper laser, and is either in a coma, near death, or in the final moments before total indoctrination.

Thinking this, it makes it easier to being my second playthrough. And that I will never choose the blue or green ending probably ever again.

[BrowncoatN7]

I hope this theory is correct, otherwise I'll adopt it as my new headcanon.

[prsquared]

slimshedim wrote...

Shepard has seen more Reaper tech than anyone else in the Galaxy. He was inside a wrecked Reaper and didn't get indoctrinated - unlike the scientists there. Why should he become indoctrinated all of a sudden?

I think there's a good argument to prove why this could be possible all of a sudden.  For the first time in the series, Shepard looks a bit anxious and stressed out. Which makes subjects more prone to indoctrination(?)

[MB957]

I am going with indoctrination theory...lol..for now! At least that makes a replay viable...and fun again! and if it turns out that these are the true and real endings...and no indoctrination theory..then...I dunno at that point...lol!

IDT or as I call it...Indoctrination Theory...would be a risky but balls out move by bioware. If they really wanted to shake us all up and blow us away with a trilogy ending...this could probably do it.

if..however..IDT is just wishful thinking...and a way to process the grief over the implosion of a beloved story....then..I dunno.

[Dessalines]

I did write a lot on the indoc page, but I am not sure if it is bad writing now.
1) If the catalylst was the computer child, why did the Reavers have to be told about it by the IM. It makes no sense. They would have already know that bit of information. The thing stated that I control the reavers.
Why didn't they just grab hold of the Citadel when they appeared to keep it safe? The Reapers have been wiping out species for a bunch of cycles, and none of the species told them about the device they were making. Maybe Bioware has just lost its touch.

[Zetrial]

Another point that might possibly come into play is that if the catalyst is what it says it is. Then how come it couldn't activate the Citadel Relay itself in Me1, allowing the Reapers to come and do their thing?
You would think that the entity that states the Citadel is part of me would have control over it's general functionality and wouldn't need to rely on the keepers to receive a signal from Sovereign to activate the Citadel Relay.

So that just reeks of this entity not being what it claims to be, which does help support the indoctrination theory.

Dessalines wrote...

I did write a lot on the indoc page, but I am not sure if it is bad writing now.
1)
If the catalylst was the computer child, why did the Reavers have to be
told about it by the IM. It makes no sense. They would have already
know that bit of information. The thing stated that I control the
reavers.
Why didn't they just grab hold of the Citadel when they
appeared to keep it safe? The Reapers have been wiping out species for a
bunch of cycles, and none of the species told them about the device
they were making. Maybe Bioware has just lost its touch.

Dess makes another good point, if the catalyst is the origin of the Reapers. How do they not know about it until the end, why would they possibly leave their biggest weak point in the hands of the enemy for as long as they did while they were smashing away on all the home planets.

Modifié par Zetrial, 13 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Drenick18]

now I'm really buying into this Indoctrination theory. It makes sense. Everything star-kid tells you is an obvious lie. If you choose to destroy the reapers, he tells you you'll kill EDI and the Geth too (that's probably bs!). Choosing to control them is also a trap, but the worst is synthesis, because they actually convinced you that it's the next step in evolution, which is exactly what they (the catalyst) did! All 3 options require you to accept the Catalyst/Reapers frame of mind. It's definitely indoctrination.

It also makes sense from a sales perspective. They made everyone (ok almost everyone) hate ALL 3 endings, so they can release DLC of the REAL ending, where you actually win and not get indoctrinated. People will get angry over this DLC release, but it doesn't mean they won't buy it, no one will be able to resist ending the ME trilogy without getting the actual true ending.

If this is the case then well-played Bioware/EA.

[DonutsDealer]

So this could be the reason why I hear reaper-like sounds during the "breathing" clip. I'll accept that, for now.

[Thompsonator]

As much as I really want to believe all this I honestly think its way too far fetched. No way Bioware would release the last game in the trilogy without the true ending. We are just in denial that the ending ruined the entire franchise but sooner or later we're gonna have to accept it.

I think the most we can hope for is some sort of epilogue dlc detailing the state of earth after the end and why the normandy ran away for unkown reasons.

[Lugaidster]

Bump!

[Lugaidster]

Thompsonator wrote...

As much as I really want to believe all this I honestly think its way too far fetched. No way Bioware would release the last game in the trilogy without the true ending. We are just in denial that the ending ruined the entire franchise but sooner or later we're gonna have to accept it.

I think the most we can hope for is some sort of epilogue dlc detailing the state of earth after the end and why the normandy ran away for unkown reasons.

I'd wager that two weeks ago no one would think it's possible for Bioware to release such a bad ending to such a good trilogy. If you want to believe  they are that stupid, go ahead. I'd rather believe that they are that ballsy.

[Lambchopz]

nullobject wrote...

Some parsimonious counter theories to the convoluted ones in the OP:

1) Perhaps someone at Bioware suggested the "deep breath" scene to serve a purpose similar to the "stargazer" scene - a semi-serious, 4th wall breaking easter egg referring to Shepard surviving and going through the story again in New Game + mode. "Stargazer" only triggers on 2nd playthroughs - or if you imported a character from ME2. Perhaps "Deep Breath" was only supposed to trigger in similar circumstances. Perhaps at a later point the trigger conditions were changed. No-one expected players to read anything in to it.

2) The sound files of Joker attacking a Reaper are left over from a planned additional component to the end sequence. In the original plan there is a two-pronged ending sequence: Shepard is activating an ancient device on the Citadel, and the Normandy is fighting a Reaper in space. (This would be just like the ME1 finale). The end of this space battle sequence would for some reason require the Normandy to enter the Charon mass relay. The "race against colored space magic" sequence in the ending(s) is all that remains of this sequence, the rest was cut for time/budget/pacing reasons. (With a few additions, this could also explain the non-sequitur appearance of squad members from the final London fight on the Normandy after crash landing)

Yes one of the things I said in the OP was that most of the evidence provided is easily refuted as claiming those involved are just looking too far into it, and that is a valid stance to take. Just like any good conspiracy theory, it's hard to disprove, but impossible to prove and hard to believe.  That may be the case, but...

Why anybody thinks it's so wrong to sit around and think of ways this game could end better is beyond me. At least it's more productive then moping around giving zero feedback at all hoping the ending will magically change, or doing that with the expectation it won't but continuing to talk about it anyways.

By the way, the Prothean VI issue is covered in the first section I think, for those that missed it.

I'm also not personally claiming this was BioWare's intention all along. I just think it's a better ending, if BioWare piggy backs off of it then it's the same end result to me, so it doesn't matter.

[prsquared]

I found something new, I think. Just before the Liara Romance scene, she's lying alongside Shepard, stargazing and I found this conversation interesting.

Liara: "It would be easy for a single ship to get lost up there, wouldn't it?"
Shepard: " Yeah, it would."
Liara: "To find someplace very far away, where you could spend the rest of your life... In peace. And happiness."

Make what you want of it.

Modifié par prsquared, 13 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[London]

I agree with everything except the dream portion.  All of the dream sequences in the game are a bit blurry, including the visions of making a selection and thinking about Anderson, joker, and li as you make the decision.  

This being all being in Sheps mind would resolve how he got back to London and why the Normandy was able to pick up the crew, though.  This would require far less speculation if they just build on this theory though and make us this ending.