Hey everybody....first post...I had to get on the forums because ever since I finished the game the other night I've been pulling my hair out in shock of the miserable excuse for an ending to the greatest sci fi saga in history imo...I noticed this thread and began to read it. Now let me just say that I've seen plenty of horribly vague endings to movies and games only to come to a forum and see all their conspiricy theories of how it all turned out okay....and these conspiricy theories are ALWAYS wrong...but, I feel differently about this theory you guys have....bcuz when I think about it, its the only logical explanation to that last 10 minutes of the game.....am I to believe that Bioware pulled the greatest post-release marketing ploy in history? Well I do, and would be shocked if bioware doesn't announce a final endgame dlc. I never buy into this...I'm quite pessimistic....but as I said, the indoctrination theory is the only logical explanation for the unfinished ending....its more logical than any of the endings....but the one thing I had to ask about this theory is, if its all in Shepards head, what happens in the real world while he chooses to destroy the Reapers in dream? Is it just a test by Harbinger to see if he can get Shep to make the wrong choice? Or does the decision to destroy the Reapers in his dream even effect the real world? In other words do you think the Reapers die in real life when Shep chooses Destroy in the dream? Or is it all simply a test to see what he will do and nothing more? If it is just a test, when Shepard breaks free of the indoctrination and wakes in London, is Harbinger still there waiting to end it once and for all now that he knows Shep can't be controlled? Sorry...looong first post....but its been eating at me. Thanks for any responses
Indoctrination Theory - FAQ/Organized
Débuté par
Lambchopz
, mars 13 2012 10:56
Retour en haut
#52
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 10:33
Mcfly616
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And imo you guys aren't reaching....I think you hit the nail on the head
#53
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 11:16
Zanramon
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Im sorry if this question has already been answered. But if this theory is true (and from the look of it ,it may be) how would Shepard actually defeat the Reapers if he's lying there injured(after you choose the destroy option)?
#54
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 11:29
Mcfly616
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I suppose we find out? Eventually? I'm just saying, the first game closed up perfectly. The second game ended perfectly(accounted for decisions and all). Hell, you see you're surviving crew members on the Normandy as the prepare for the coming arrival. I find it very hard to believe that Bioware wouldn't close up every little plotline of the last game of this epic trilogy, when they capped off the first 2/3s of the series perfectly. It just is so illogical. The indoctrination theory has too much evidence to be coincidence....not wishful thinking on my part. Just honestly, too many things don't make sense. They did it on purpose....its not over...yet
#55
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 12:00
Mcfly616
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....and I think there's another thing missing from the final 10 mins of the game. Haven't seen anybody talking about this but I would think I'm not the only one who thought it was odd that there was no Boss Fight! Hello?! ME1:Saren/Sovereign, ME2: that unexplained human Reapers fetus....I played ME3 all the way through for 3 days, and you know what was always in the back of my.mind through the entirety of the game? Blue babies! Haha well that....and kicking some major Harbinger ass....like wtf? He hits me with a beam...and I die after making different choices on what fireworks should be lit off at the end of life as we know it?! Doesnt make sense....I understand what transpired on the citadel. But I also know how illogical all of it was. The illusive man was a man of ideals, not some weakminded puppet like Saren blowing his brains out. I understand anybody can be indoctrinated but the illusive man has too much pride to go out how he did(mind****ed and all). And out of all the conversations in Mass Effect, the few with Harbinger in ME2 are some of the most compelling in the entire series....and you really think that Bioware ended the trilogy without a final confrontation between the ultimate villain and the ultimate hero? If I owned a bank, I would bet every brick that we haven't seen the last of Shepard, or Harbinger or the true end to ME3....
#56
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:07
yumesama
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Nefelius wrote...
VI on Thessia and later on Cerberus station saw no indoctrination signs in Shepard.
. . .
Probably because he wasn't indoctrinated.
Whether or not Shepard gets indoctrinated comes down to the choice you make during the indoctrination attempt at the end of the game.
#57
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 05:31
Leonia
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While I may not subscribe to this theory, this is the best collection of information on the subject without having to dig through a 400+ page thread and shouldn't be forgotten.
#58
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 05:45
Maria Caliban
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I like the FAQ, but why do you feel the need to portray people who disagree with the indoctrination theory as hostile morons?
#59
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 08:22
ARW_0309
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I wasn't upset as alot of people were of the 3 choice ending (I picked destroy with over 5000 war assets) but at the same time I wasn't blown away. Right after beating it I went on youtube to see other endings and after watching them found talks of the Indoctrination Theory which makes perfect sense. As the Catalyst is only the child only you have reacted to and had reaccuring nightmares about.
Crucible: - a severe test - a place or situation in which concentrated forces interact to cause or influence change or development
Catalyst:
- an agent that provokes or speeds significant change or action
from merriam webster dictionary
When your making the run to the beam your teammates are nowhere in sight and when Shepard finally gets close to Harbinger he shoots his laser horizontally across the ground killing all alliance soldiers while you whiteout.
With blurry corners on the screen (as if Shepard was dreaming) eventually you get up armor scorched cover in burns and such to limp your way to beam attacked in slow-motion by three husks and a Marauder. When Shepard gets to the citadel you find out Anderson followed without armour, probably no kinetic barriers and comes out of the beam ahead of Shepard. When Shepard finds Anderson at some citadel controls TIM shows up and Shepard squares off with him (I Went Paragon 100%) and felt such familiarity to TIM as if it was ME1 with Saren at the end (talk him out of killing us, him being indoctrinated, unstopable so he commits suicide).
Shepard eventually takes a very close elevation pad to the final room where he meets the cataylst (A white AI that looks like the nine year-old boy from the beginning of the game that dies) With very small explanation and the final ten minuets of the game the Catalyst and a Shepard who doesn't feel like answering questions gives you a 3 choice conundrum; destroy (seen as bad not just in conversation by the Catalyst and conversation bar (red) but the pipe is glowing red too), control and synthesis which are looked at as good and neutral by the catalyst and their corresponding spots in the room and conversation bar.
The catalyst when you pick control has the screen focussed on his face as if he were to be smirking (although I can't tell this is only what I imagine). Even if this were to happen do you honestly think the Catalyst would give up all his power just because Shepard asked for peace nicely and has possibly made it the furthest of any organic to stop the reapers... come on we've all learned in horror movies and other forms of media never trust (ghostly) children they are only trying to play the innocent role to get you to do something they want you to do.
Sythesis is when synthetic and organic matter is shaped/fused together creating peace for organics and synthetics (The Catalyst said the reapers do this anyway they take a speices most powerful traits and further adapt themselves to continue the extinction cycle). By Shepard swan diving into a green laser to be consumed the sequence takes place. This required the most explanation which was why I see this whole event to be a test for Shepard and the player in particular to see who catches the clues and subtle hints as the reapers may be trying to indoctrinate Shepard after all, he/she has been around reaper tech alot (proven themselves to be the possibly the biggest threat against the reapers) and many others along the journey (not followers) have easily fell to indoctrination. If the reapers were to indoctrinate Shepard organic resistance would be filled with fear where killing him would slow organics down in short terms but make Shepard a legend and raise moral over all.
The filler at the end with Joker and the Normandy/crew I can only see as a filler, besides the extra synthesis green viens in shadows trick at the end. Whats also questionable is you can sometimes have Shepards followers (in particular your current squadmates present at the time of the run to the beam) walking out of the Normandy.
The Destroy option seems like the only possible one to choose because almost right when you destroy the pipe the Catalyst vanishes as if the reapers failed in trying to indoctrinate Shepard. After the sequence if you got 5000 war assets a cutscene of a scorched armor Shepard gasping for air covered in cement/stone depris which doesn't make sense if he/she was on the citadel because its made entirely of metal materials, I think he is still on earth in London right after Harbinger hit Shepard with its main laserand indoctrination failed.
Although I'm not 100% certain bioware will probably release it for free (maybe as secret) in the next/last dlc pack for mass effect 3 to increase sales and fans love for mass effect lore (as if the reapers indoctrination test for Shepard can be said for Bioware testing its fans)
Some of this info I thought of myself while most of it was created by the community, for the community.
...What do you believe?
Crucible: - a severe test - a place or situation in which concentrated forces interact to cause or influence change or development
Catalyst:
- an agent that provokes or speeds significant change or action
from merriam webster dictionary
When your making the run to the beam your teammates are nowhere in sight and when Shepard finally gets close to Harbinger he shoots his laser horizontally across the ground killing all alliance soldiers while you whiteout.
With blurry corners on the screen (as if Shepard was dreaming) eventually you get up armor scorched cover in burns and such to limp your way to beam attacked in slow-motion by three husks and a Marauder. When Shepard gets to the citadel you find out Anderson followed without armour, probably no kinetic barriers and comes out of the beam ahead of Shepard. When Shepard finds Anderson at some citadel controls TIM shows up and Shepard squares off with him (I Went Paragon 100%) and felt such familiarity to TIM as if it was ME1 with Saren at the end (talk him out of killing us, him being indoctrinated, unstopable so he commits suicide).
Shepard eventually takes a very close elevation pad to the final room where he meets the cataylst (A white AI that looks like the nine year-old boy from the beginning of the game that dies) With very small explanation and the final ten minuets of the game the Catalyst and a Shepard who doesn't feel like answering questions gives you a 3 choice conundrum; destroy (seen as bad not just in conversation by the Catalyst and conversation bar (red) but the pipe is glowing red too), control and synthesis which are looked at as good and neutral by the catalyst and their corresponding spots in the room and conversation bar.
The catalyst when you pick control has the screen focussed on his face as if he were to be smirking (although I can't tell this is only what I imagine). Even if this were to happen do you honestly think the Catalyst would give up all his power just because Shepard asked for peace nicely and has possibly made it the furthest of any organic to stop the reapers... come on we've all learned in horror movies and other forms of media never trust (ghostly) children they are only trying to play the innocent role to get you to do something they want you to do.
Sythesis is when synthetic and organic matter is shaped/fused together creating peace for organics and synthetics (The Catalyst said the reapers do this anyway they take a speices most powerful traits and further adapt themselves to continue the extinction cycle). By Shepard swan diving into a green laser to be consumed the sequence takes place. This required the most explanation which was why I see this whole event to be a test for Shepard and the player in particular to see who catches the clues and subtle hints as the reapers may be trying to indoctrinate Shepard after all, he/she has been around reaper tech alot (proven themselves to be the possibly the biggest threat against the reapers) and many others along the journey (not followers) have easily fell to indoctrination. If the reapers were to indoctrinate Shepard organic resistance would be filled with fear where killing him would slow organics down in short terms but make Shepard a legend and raise moral over all.
The filler at the end with Joker and the Normandy/crew I can only see as a filler, besides the extra synthesis green viens in shadows trick at the end. Whats also questionable is you can sometimes have Shepards followers (in particular your current squadmates present at the time of the run to the beam) walking out of the Normandy.
The Destroy option seems like the only possible one to choose because almost right when you destroy the pipe the Catalyst vanishes as if the reapers failed in trying to indoctrinate Shepard. After the sequence if you got 5000 war assets a cutscene of a scorched armor Shepard gasping for air covered in cement/stone depris which doesn't make sense if he/she was on the citadel because its made entirely of metal materials, I think he is still on earth in London right after Harbinger hit Shepard with its main laserand indoctrination failed.
Although I'm not 100% certain bioware will probably release it for free (maybe as secret) in the next/last dlc pack for mass effect 3 to increase sales and fans love for mass effect lore (as if the reapers indoctrination test for Shepard can be said for Bioware testing its fans)
Some of this info I thought of myself while most of it was created by the community, for the community.
...What do you believe?
#60
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 08:30
Penguins
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I don't think bioware intended this ending, but it is literally my only way of rationalizing the ending. Even if no ending dlc comes, I'll be rolling with this theory.
#61
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 08:36
Lassandra
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Not sure if this has been mentioned already...
Saren was indoctrinated and still able to interact with Vigil on Ilos. Just because the VI detects you doesn't mean it won't speak to you.
Just a reminder is all.
~Lass
Saren was indoctrinated and still able to interact with Vigil on Ilos. Just because the VI detects you doesn't mean it won't speak to you.
Just a reminder is all.
~Lass
#62
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 08:45
ARW_0309
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same, it just seems to rushed at the end for bioware to end the trilogy. Just probably a sale and fan base tactic, it takes balls to pull something like this on the community which in the end can only increase the hype even for those who raged at the last ten minuets and now the say they won't touch the game. As i said, they put epilogue dlc (free) in the game they will get more then just money in the bank! (game sales)
#63
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 09:08
v0rt3x22
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Hi - please also consider the hints I found:
Codex Entry:
http://social.biowar...index/9880796/7
Shepard's Indoctrination Eyes in Blue Ending:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9891674
General discussion of 'The Catalyst' being used as a Tool by the Reapers:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9897896
Codex Entry:
http://social.biowar...index/9880796/7
Shepard's Indoctrination Eyes in Blue Ending:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9891674
General discussion of 'The Catalyst' being used as a Tool by the Reapers:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9897896
Modifié par v0rt3x22, 14 mars 2012 - 09:08 .
#64
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 09:35
HowlingSiren
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I buy into the indoctrination theory starting from the moment Shepard is hit by Harbinger's beam right until she wakes up under the rubble, because the Normandy fleeing, teleporting squadmates, etc. makes no sense at all.
But... it doesn't make the ending any better.
If the 3 choices are about Shepard breaking herself free from indoctrination, how does that affect the outcome of the war? She's just not indoctrinated. She hasn't defeated the Reapers. She hasn't even weakened them, as I don't recall lore stating that resisting indoctrination weakens Reapers. The Crucible hasn't been activated. So the losing battle that was raging before the mad dash to the Citadel beam is still going strong and I can't think of a reason why the tide would suddenly turn in favor of the Allies. I'd love for someone to point out what I missed or wrongly assumed, as I am scratching my head over this.
As for "complete ending" DLC to resolve the above, maybe. I hope so. It would certainly be an incredible coup. But also I would think quite a financial risk, as I seem to recall most game sales take place in the first month after release. By risking the ire and poor reviews of users, you're bound to impact those crucial first month sales. So apart from the marketing stunt, I here again can't think of a good reason why it wouldn't just be included with the full game, if you pick the Destroy option.
But... it doesn't make the ending any better.
If the 3 choices are about Shepard breaking herself free from indoctrination, how does that affect the outcome of the war? She's just not indoctrinated. She hasn't defeated the Reapers. She hasn't even weakened them, as I don't recall lore stating that resisting indoctrination weakens Reapers. The Crucible hasn't been activated. So the losing battle that was raging before the mad dash to the Citadel beam is still going strong and I can't think of a reason why the tide would suddenly turn in favor of the Allies. I'd love for someone to point out what I missed or wrongly assumed, as I am scratching my head over this.
As for "complete ending" DLC to resolve the above, maybe. I hope so. It would certainly be an incredible coup. But also I would think quite a financial risk, as I seem to recall most game sales take place in the first month after release. By risking the ire and poor reviews of users, you're bound to impact those crucial first month sales. So apart from the marketing stunt, I here again can't think of a good reason why it wouldn't just be included with the full game, if you pick the Destroy option.
#65
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 09:38
v0rt3x22
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Nina88 wrote...
I buy into the indoctrination theory starting from the moment Shepard is hit by Harbinger's beam right until she wakes up under the rubble, because the Normandy fleeing, teleporting squadmates, etc. makes no sense at all.
But... it doesn't make the ending any better.
If the 3 choices are about Shepard breaking herself free from indoctrination, how does that affect the outcome of the war? She's just not indoctrinated. She hasn't defeated the Reapers. She hasn't even weakened them, as I don't recall lore stating that resisting indoctrination weakens Reapers. The Crucible hasn't been activated. So the losing battle that was raging before the mad dash to the Citadel beam is still going strong and I can't think of a reason why the tide would suddenly turn in favor of the Allies. I'd love for someone to point out what I missed or wrongly assumed, as I am scratching my head over this.
As for "complete ending" DLC to resolve the above, maybe. I hope so. It would certainly be an incredible coup. But also I would think quite a financial risk, as I seem to recall most game sales take place in the first month after release. By risking the ire and poor reviews of users, you're bound to impact those crucial first month sales. So apart from the marketing stunt, I here again can't think of a good reason why it wouldn't just be included with the full game, if you pick the Destroy option.
Yes but the above only works if you're taking the ending as an absolute.
The game has several hints though that its infact a cliffhanger to something coming.
#66
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 09:53
HowlingSiren
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[/quote]
Yes but the above only works if you're taking the ending as an absolute.
The game has several hints though that its infact a cliffhanger to something coming.
[/quote]
I do hope you're right, but sadly, bad cliffhangers as "absolute" endings abound in all forms of entertainment... But I will keep the faith and hold the line!
Yes but the above only works if you're taking the ending as an absolute.
The game has several hints though that its infact a cliffhanger to something coming.
[/quote]
I do hope you're right, but sadly, bad cliffhangers as "absolute" endings abound in all forms of entertainment... But I will keep the faith and hold the line!
#67
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 10:02
Sweawm
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Just to correct something in the FAQ. Shepard would not the first to have broken Indoctrination, already being done by Matriarch Benezia and one of Samara's daughters.
#68
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 10:09
Sylvanspirits
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Didn't see this mentioned, but having decided to do a second playthrough after deciding Shep is indeed indoctrinated, I've been looking for stuff that supports the theory on my playthrough.
One thing I noticed that's not on the list...
James Vega, after the Tuchanka mission, will make the comment "Do you hear that hum? Is that just me?" Yep, you do hear odd hums around the ship too. Most noticeable one is in the War Room, where it would be targeting the leaders of your alliance.
And of course... "Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears."
One thing I noticed that's not on the list...
James Vega, after the Tuchanka mission, will make the comment "Do you hear that hum? Is that just me?" Yep, you do hear odd hums around the ship too. Most noticeable one is in the War Room, where it would be targeting the leaders of your alliance.
And of course... "Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears."
#69
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 10:31
Halberd96
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I've heard somewhere that the second and third choices look like Reaper structures but the first one looks like an Alliance structure. And the brightness of the second and third choices is interesting too.
#70
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:27
Croakamancer
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Hey everybody. 
Occasional poster, just wanted to say that you've got me intrigued with this theory. Whilst I think some of these points are very vague, and could be due to other factors (or simply bad writing) there are some that don't fit that bill. This is an interesting thread, and here's hoping the discussion can carry on for a fair while longer
One thing that I don't think's been brought up (though with how much discussion there's been, I could have missed it) is the Catalyst itself. Specifically one rather interesting two letter word.
"Us."
It originally describes itself as creator of the Reapers, their leader, and wants to make it sound as though he's different, willing to negotiate... but not only is his eventual presentation of the endings biased (that'd be the same even if every line he's said was genuine) he seems to start to identify with the Reapers more closely than merely a creator and his tools. He goes from.
"I am the Catalyst"
"The Reapers are mine. They are my solution"
To
"I know you've thought about destroying us"
"But we found a way to stop that from happening"
Yes, I quoted those last two out of order,
but the point remains. The so called creator and owner of the Reapers identifying as one of them paints the scene in a different light, at least to me. Rather than giving you the whole truth; it's holding things back, manipulating you. The literal truth, but nothing more. Imagine, instead of the Starchild, it was Harbinger offering you this choice... would you be inclined to trust it about the other two options?
Edit; As to the idea of 'The Truth' DLC, I think if could fit with an indoctrinated Shepard. Remember, Indoctrination isn't the complete removal of free will. Once someone is indoctrinated , they can still think, still fight it. It's simply harder. How epic an ending would it be if, in the end, Shepared has to echo Saren's choice from the first game and give her/his life rather than let the Reapers win?
After all, that already happened in those two endings, didn't it? They're the two in which Shepard dies. The Stargazer just gave the child a slightly nicer version of how the hero met their end, perhaps?
Occasional poster, just wanted to say that you've got me intrigued with this theory. Whilst I think some of these points are very vague, and could be due to other factors (or simply bad writing) there are some that don't fit that bill. This is an interesting thread, and here's hoping the discussion can carry on for a fair while longerOne thing that I don't think's been brought up (though with how much discussion there's been, I could have missed it) is the Catalyst itself. Specifically one rather interesting two letter word.
"Us."
It originally describes itself as creator of the Reapers, their leader, and wants to make it sound as though he's different, willing to negotiate... but not only is his eventual presentation of the endings biased (that'd be the same even if every line he's said was genuine) he seems to start to identify with the Reapers more closely than merely a creator and his tools. He goes from.
"I am the Catalyst"
"The Reapers are mine. They are my solution"
To
"I know you've thought about destroying us"
"But we found a way to stop that from happening"
Yes, I quoted those last two out of order,
but the point remains. The so called creator and owner of the Reapers identifying as one of them paints the scene in a different light, at least to me. Rather than giving you the whole truth; it's holding things back, manipulating you. The literal truth, but nothing more. Imagine, instead of the Starchild, it was Harbinger offering you this choice... would you be inclined to trust it about the other two options?Edit; As to the idea of 'The Truth' DLC, I think if could fit with an indoctrinated Shepard. Remember, Indoctrination isn't the complete removal of free will. Once someone is indoctrinated , they can still think, still fight it. It's simply harder. How epic an ending would it be if, in the end, Shepared has to echo Saren's choice from the first game and give her/his life rather than let the Reapers win?
After all, that already happened in those two endings, didn't it? They're the two in which Shepard dies.
The Stargazer just gave the child a slightly nicer version of how the hero met their end, perhaps?
Modifié par Croakamancer, 14 mars 2012 - 04:34 .
#71
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:47
pprrff
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I'm sorry to say this but the only thing worse than what we have for an ending is that Shepard gets indoctrinated at the end. Pretend for a moment that's the real ending instead of the god child, the outrage here on the forum wouldn't be over 3 different color explosion, it would be like this:
"OMG none of our choices mattered cuz Shep just get indoctrinated, what horrible writing plot hole ....."
"I have so many different Shep and so many different play through and it's all for nothing cuz the ending is exactly the same, FU bioware..."
"After 5 years of emotional investment and this is the f***ing ending? I should have just let Saren shoot me and get the same outcome..."
"Where is my crew? where is my LI, is bioware saying that they, along with the whole galaxy are screwed because the hero get mindF*cked at the last minute. This isn't an ending, this is just a non standard critical mission failure"
So yea, I don't see why people who are upset over the current ending will put their hopes in a even worse one.
"OMG none of our choices mattered cuz Shep just get indoctrinated, what horrible writing plot hole ....."
"I have so many different Shep and so many different play through and it's all for nothing cuz the ending is exactly the same, FU bioware..."
"After 5 years of emotional investment and this is the f***ing ending? I should have just let Saren shoot me and get the same outcome..."
"Where is my crew? where is my LI, is bioware saying that they, along with the whole galaxy are screwed because the hero get mindF*cked at the last minute. This isn't an ending, this is just a non standard critical mission failure"
So yea, I don't see why people who are upset over the current ending will put their hopes in a even worse one.
#72
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:53
Liquoid
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Quick addition.
You only see Shepard take the Breath at the end if you have sufficient war assets AND chose "Destroy", making it the intended canon ending.
Choosing Control/Synthesis leads to full indoctrination, thus you don't wake up and you never realise it was all a dream.
Every player who thinks the endings were real got indoctrinated by the Reapers.
You only see Shepard take the Breath at the end if you have sufficient war assets AND chose "Destroy", making it the intended canon ending.
Choosing Control/Synthesis leads to full indoctrination, thus you don't wake up and you never realise it was all a dream.
Every player who thinks the endings were real got indoctrinated by the Reapers.
Modifié par Liquoid, 14 mars 2012 - 04:54 .
#73
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:57
Croakamancer
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People aren't upset over the endings being negative (at least I'm not) It's more that the endings are simple
Remember, this theory goes pretty much hand in hand with the idea of 'The Truth', a DLC pack with an expanded ending. An indoctrinated Shep having to sacrifice his life (to see the Crucible deployed, perhaps) is a worthy end. It echoes back to 1, and Saren, or even minutes before the end with the Illusive Man. It also doesn't preclude seeing more of Shep's LI and the fate of the galaxy, which is a lot of what people want; closure.
And the ending wouldn't be the same, because how indoctrination plays out would allow for a lot more variety. If this theory is true, not all Sheps were indoctrinated, and if the rumored size of 'The Truth' is correct (9 gig) then a large number of end game scenarios become possible, seeing the interplay of various races, perhaps the rebuilding of the Mass Relays if their destruction still happens. You'd have the option for self sacrifice or for survival, depending on how you played out the original ending
But with enough of an overarching thread; the Reapers are always destroyed/driven off to keep the universe's story moving, Something that's missing from this one. How can any future Biowere product take account of both a Universe where synthesis happened and one in which it didn't?
Edit; Keep confusing my McGuffins. Crucible, Catalyst, Citadel, Conduit...
Remember, this theory goes pretty much hand in hand with the idea of 'The Truth', a DLC pack with an expanded ending. An indoctrinated Shep having to sacrifice his life (to see the Crucible deployed, perhaps) is a worthy end. It echoes back to 1, and Saren, or even minutes before the end with the Illusive Man. It also doesn't preclude seeing more of Shep's LI and the fate of the galaxy, which is a lot of what people want; closure.
And the ending wouldn't be the same, because how indoctrination plays out would allow for a lot more variety. If this theory is true, not all Sheps were indoctrinated, and if the rumored size of 'The Truth' is correct (9 gig) then a large number of end game scenarios become possible, seeing the interplay of various races, perhaps the rebuilding of the Mass Relays if their destruction still happens. You'd have the option for self sacrifice or for survival, depending on how you played out the original ending
But with enough of an overarching thread; the Reapers are always destroyed/driven off to keep the universe's story moving, Something that's missing from this one. How can any future Biowere product take account of both a Universe where synthesis happened and one in which it didn't?
Edit; Keep confusing my McGuffins.
Crucible, Catalyst, Citadel, Conduit...
Modifié par Croakamancer, 14 mars 2012 - 05:10 .
#74
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:42
Raanz
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I like this theory and can buy into it. Whether or not it is "true" or what Bioware has intended is very much in debate, only they know. I have enjoyed the series and hope that they or any other dev house continues making space/sci-fi rpgs to enjoy.
As far as the Indoctrination Theory, it makes more sense to me then the actual ending I played through and taking it at face value. Deep down, I just don't buy into the idea that the writers resorted to such a simple ending as portrayed in the game.
Here are a couple of other things that lead me to believe this theory:
- during one click conversation with EDI, after rescuing Eve from the Salarian base, she talks about a chat she had with Mordin about cybernetically enhanced Salarians. At some point, Shepard asks her if he falls into that category because of how he was rebuilt by Cerberus. She jokes at first and then tells him "no. Since your brain and brain functions are unaltered, you are still organic" Paraphrasing here as I don't remember the exact dialogue. This answer is in direct conflict with what the Catalyst/Boy told Shepard before making his decision. "hey if you destroy all synthetic life, you in effect, destroy yourself as well." Another statement to try and discourage Shepard from choosing the destroy path, or in the case of this theory, to break the indoctrination process.
- a conversation Shepard has with Eve about how she became a shaman, and the trial she had to complete in the process. She talks about digging the wrong way (on accident of course) and discovering a crystal. She gives you this crystal and hopes it will help you in a time when all seems the most darkest. I relate that to Shepard's choices during the indoctrination process when faced with extremely challenging resolutions to the overall problem, and how the solutions where presented to him in alignment form. The only thing that breaks down for me about this one is that if you played Shepard as renegade the entire time. Of course you choose the "red" option or to destroy the reapers...how does this play into "thinking" outside the box?
Although I like the theory, it still doesn't address some folks angst over the endings. How it stands right now, the perception is that none of your choices as Shepard mattered in the end. The results are the same. At least with this theory, it is still open ended and only explains how and if Shepard escaped indoctrination.
As far as the Indoctrination Theory, it makes more sense to me then the actual ending I played through and taking it at face value. Deep down, I just don't buy into the idea that the writers resorted to such a simple ending as portrayed in the game.
Here are a couple of other things that lead me to believe this theory:
- during one click conversation with EDI, after rescuing Eve from the Salarian base, she talks about a chat she had with Mordin about cybernetically enhanced Salarians. At some point, Shepard asks her if he falls into that category because of how he was rebuilt by Cerberus. She jokes at first and then tells him "no. Since your brain and brain functions are unaltered, you are still organic" Paraphrasing here as I don't remember the exact dialogue. This answer is in direct conflict with what the Catalyst/Boy told Shepard before making his decision. "hey if you destroy all synthetic life, you in effect, destroy yourself as well." Another statement to try and discourage Shepard from choosing the destroy path, or in the case of this theory, to break the indoctrination process.
- a conversation Shepard has with Eve about how she became a shaman, and the trial she had to complete in the process. She talks about digging the wrong way (on accident of course) and discovering a crystal. She gives you this crystal and hopes it will help you in a time when all seems the most darkest. I relate that to Shepard's choices during the indoctrination process when faced with extremely challenging resolutions to the overall problem, and how the solutions where presented to him in alignment form. The only thing that breaks down for me about this one is that if you played Shepard as renegade the entire time. Of course you choose the "red" option or to destroy the reapers...how does this play into "thinking" outside the box?
Although I like the theory, it still doesn't address some folks angst over the endings. How it stands right now, the perception is that none of your choices as Shepard mattered in the end. The results are the same. At least with this theory, it is still open ended and only explains how and if Shepard escaped indoctrination.
