391 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

thats why i am all in for a shepard-spinnoff and a new setup ...

in this case, i would most likely buy both games

[Galbrant]

If the next game has Shepard in it would be inane. Shepard died in all four endings people, Including High EMS Destroyed. To think Shepard survive reentry from space to give a last breath is already borderline mental. If he survived it damn well better be Indoctrination Theory. Otherwise the whole situation is idiotic.

[Dr_Extrem]

Galbrant wrote...

If the next game has Shepard in it would be inane. Shepard died in all four endings people, Including High EMS Destroyed. To think Shepard survive reentry from space to give a last breath is already borderline mental. If he survived it damn well better be Indoctrination Theory. Otherwise the whole situation is idiotic.

and thats why they need a arrival style dlc ... even if the new game would not be with shepard.

the endings alone are a nightmare for every writer in this galaxy.

[urazoktay]

     ANOTHER TRİBUTE TO MASS EFFECT, an analysis of the series as a whole, AND AN OPİNİON ABOUT      SHEPARDS CHANCES OF RETURN...

( With a little bit of an aggressive opening i guess )

İ just dont get people coming here and commenting how they even don't want a new Mass Effect let alone wanting Shepard back...

Why do you bother really? What's the point?

Mass Effect series may very well be the best video game franchise ever been made. Well, at least i know that's being the truth for many around here.

So, please stop typing down nonsense with some DA avatars, would you?

Back to topic, the way i see and feel it there was really a canon ending to ME3. That being destroy with high EMS.

İts just not spoken, that's that.

Just give attention to the whole series, read every codex, take notice of everything in the game, listen to your squadmates, from Tali to Garrus, Legion to Edi, Hackett to Anderson, Javik, everyone you had come to care for...

They all point you to "destroy" ending in different perspectives and with different quoates, different decisions they made through out the series.

Synthesize is just a Reaper influenced, so called solution that had been put into Saren Arterius's mind through indoctrination right in the first game. You choose it, you accept the very solution in the first game introduced to you by Saren, whom you killed or by talking sense into him, make him to resist the Reaper influence and commit suicide...

Yes Mass Effect may be a its your journey, you decide! you choose your way, yourt path kind a game, it also has a very distinctive motivation. You just have to give a lot of attention there, that's all it gets to grasp the concept.

Synthesize is AGAİNST everything you have done, against the main idea of Mass Effect and or Shepard in numerous ways. İ just cant address them all, you read every codex, interact with everyone, you will sense the idea.

İts the biggest trick foreshadowing the only option you have.

Same thing goes for the İllusive Man via control ending...

Control ending is not more distracting than Synthesize. İt is pretty simple to predict what may happen in the near future... Shepard just loses his essence of being organic, the very perspective and essence of being organic thus at some point he will just become the new Harbinger, in time he will see things just like the Reapers does. That's all about it, and its not hard to predict that will happen for sure.

First Game, Saren tries to manipulate you to see things his way and the necessity of Synthesize, and it is being the only option for all organic life in the Galaxy, so we made him commit suicide to break the Reaper influence, we made him realize that his way of thinking is just wrong...Or we just killed him without making him regret his motivations which lead to his suicide...

At the end of ME 3 we just did the same thing with İllusive Man- Jack Harper- and he also realized that it is just Reaper illusion through indoctrination, so he commits suicide to break free too... Or again we just killed him...

No matter what, we never accepted their perspective, given being paragon or renegade, that's a hint of Bioware's approach of player's control on the main plot at some points, a no option given situation by Bioware. Come to think of it a little... 

Canon was always there. But it was very well hidden and was being distracted by the narrative and story progress, remember every piece of art has its standing point and idea no matter how well it could be blurred regarding the talents or the artist.

Bioware has some of the best storyteller artists out there. The given perception of people believeing doing the right thing by choosing either control or sythesize doesn't mean artists has their things set in their minds.

A real artist makes you think, wonder, search for the answer. He or she just won't throw his idea right on your face saying its the only solution to come to. That's called propaganda not art, nor good storytelling.

Bioware just done a masterpiece of art in my eyes with the whole ME series.

People got confused cause this series itself literally, by all means, has the value of any brilliant artistic value.

A man can conclude to an idea after reading Crime and Punishment for the first time, and come to another one second time. Another individual may come to another one. That's why it's called art.

But art always has its idea, its purpose of their creators in them no matter how well it might be blurred or hidden.

Artist will rarely care to explain his or her true motives behind them creating his art for.

They just want people to be able to grasp it somehow, someday. No difference here. Mass Effect is just an epic piece of art, a -to some degree- interactive novel, a movie but never without its idea if you may.

You better understand it is not fully interactive, tou just can't create a story, can't tell a story without motives buried inside, without ideals, art can only be interactive to some degree even if it is a game.

İf you want to make it fully interactive you will end up killing its artistic value. That's why it's not fully interactive and at certain points it chooses for you no matter what you wish to do in order to tell its story to you. You shape in between but you have limited control on the story.

ME is art, not a full simulation. Because it wants to tell you something deep inside. İt attends to educate you, questions you, make you question yourself. But also has its own perspective on matters, no matter how well they may be hidden. That makes you perceive it like if it has no moral ground, no choice but instead it simply, crystal clearly has indeed. İt just doesn't force you to accept them,  acknowledge them, respect them.

That's being art. That's making art. That's the point of art. Art always has it's beliefs and messeges buried within for people who can make it through to reach and grasp them...

İn this matter all clues leading to destroy option. You did what you did, you experienced the series for not falling under the wrong impression of doing the right thing with choosing control or synthesis over destroy.

Yes lots of distractions were there. Like making you get attached to Edi and to Legion ( Geth), letting you improve their understanding of life, helping them to have sapience like no Reaper ever had,  empathize with them gain their love and trust, unite them with organic life with more than just logical attaches, help them grasp the value of life and suddenly at the very end confuse you over the idea of deciding genocide of a race with newly acquired soul, conscience of being alive.

That's where Mass Effect, the minds behind it, behind that MİSUNDERSTOOD last moments of ME3 shines.

Right from the first game, you were prepared for this moment, clues to the right path to take and distractions were given together all the way.

İt is just wonderful writing, pure art, pure storytelling. 

So, all in all, with all these ties, do you really believe choosing CONTROL or Synthesize is just not accepting the very Reaper influenced solutions of the problem introduced to you in the first game and at the end of third game by Saren and İM way before Starchild?

Starchild's solutions were not new, nor were they any solutions at all... You already knew them, you already opposed them ( it doesnt matter if you re paragon or renegade, you just refused those options in the main plot. ) so if you choose one of them it only means that at the very end of it all you just got indoctrinated just like SAREN or İllusive Man.

There is no paragon or renegade ending, there is no choice there. Bioware just did an excellent job to make you believe you had other options than destroy. But in reality you had only one option, that being destroy...

The main idea, you believe it or not, the only right path to take, was always "destroy" ending.

There is just a perfect illusion, a trap had been created for you to take the wrong step of control or sytnhesize.

its simple as that.

The only sacrifice you could make and hope for something good to come out of it was choosing the destroy ending no matter how it hurts.

İf you can really follow the Mass Effect writers hidden messeges, their motives, their hints at you to take the right path all along your journey right from the beginning, its just obvious that there is a secret canon ending.

You just have to avoid all the distractions, thats it.

Feeling sorry for EDİ?

Well EDİ just told you no matter what she would always choose to be disfunctional rather than have something in her related to the Reapers. Legion stated many times that Geth are simply nothing like Reapers and they differ from them in so many ways, Geth will fight against the Reapers no matter what.

So feel sorry for Geth?

Let me tell you something then...

Geth are simply software, not hardware based organic-synthetic beings like Reapers. Crucible was just calibrated to target the Reapers. it was meant to destroy The Reapers and them only. Remember what EDİ said at the end of ME 2?

"Wrong, Reapers are not a synthetic race, they are a combination of synthetic and organic life"

So? Why do we have to believe what Starchild had to say to us about all Synthetic life will be destroyed if we were to choose " Destroy", distraction anyone.?

Crucible was designed just to target and destroy the organic sytnthetic abominations that's being The Reapers, and only them.

Geth gained organic perspective just like Edi but in form they were totally Synthetic.

They may very well be alive... Also even if their " platforms" were to be destroyed, you do remember that EDİ and LEGİON mentioned so many times that their essence was not HARDWARE instead it was SOFTWARE.

A geth platform dies so what? There are billions of them maybe in their SERVERS.

Plus EDİ was NORMANDY anyone. Her body was not needer for him to be alive at all. İt was just a platform.

So rest assured, you did not kill a friend or caused an entire race to go extinct in reality.

Destroy ending just damaged the relays and and kill the reapers. İt only ATTACKS to HARDWARE, FORM not software...

İf it was to attack to software how the heck the whole Galaxy Fleet could continue their voyage without any Vİ systems operational.

Crucible only attacks to form, that's it.

You may very well be surprised when you heard of GETH and EDİ after all in the next installment of Mass Effect.

Did you really see any dying GETH in the Destroy ending? You just have the tricky comments of Starchild how they would be gone if you choose to Destroy the Reapers...

So, Starchild-aka Harbinger SO BE İT!- just tries to manipulate you over the concept of synthesize or contol just like he did to Saren and İM.

By the way Starchild was not a character that was introduced to you by the end of the game, İT WAS essentially the Harbinger. Rember that Destroyer :Reaper on Rannoch:

"Finish your war, we will be there in the end for you."

C'mon already.

He kept his promise, he was there trying his best to indoctrinate you at last.

Because it was his only hope of survival.

Remember EDİ: Reapers are compulsive of self preservation, im nothing like them, i would give my life for Joker if i had to...

Saving organics from total annihilation my ass, they were just parasites feeding over organics, they did care preservation of life JUST for THEMSELVES. Destroyers were created from lesser species ( codex) SOVEREİGN class capital Reapers were created from the most advanced Races in each cycle.

İT was never abaout preserving organic or synthetic life, it was all about feeding and breeding and self preserving their damned meaningless lifes


Heh, if you happen to choose Synthesize you just relieve the Reapers of decades or even centuries of harvesting process and turn whole organic and synthetic life to reapers immediately lol.

İt is just an insult to life everywhere and in every form synthetic or organic. No more free will, no more soul, no more individualism, no more diversity...

İn a way even Javik admitted that their forced upon cultural and technological influence over other races lead the way to their utter destruction and stated that diversity of this cycle may be the only chance of their survival unlike them.

So, there was only one main goal of Mass Efefct after all, unity through diversity, not unity from being the goddamn same being all over the Galaxy.

İm pretty sure that was being the idea behind the series. İt just attempts to evolve your character, your way of thinking in numerous ways with using principles of askin questions in a phylosophical perspective. Phlyophy, sociology, phychology was there for to get a gaze of the grand scheme of things, and become a universal being.

And Synthesize was the false view of being universal. İt unites only form in reality, kills the conscience, kill the diversity by all means.

With all i had written down here its should be easy to grasp that there was always one real end to that story...

Because even if that's a interactive game, you realize you had no other options than one at some points, right?

Saren, İM, you just did not accepted their way of thinking and their so called Sythesize or Control endings and THE GAME itself gave you no option of allying yourself with SAREN or İM, right?

That's enough evidence that game had a subjective perspective in the end. İt had clearly a pointed coclusion, and had enough leads to that end.

But it clearyl was against Synthesize by opposing Saren and Control by opposing İM.

So it doesnt matter whether  you chose Control or Synthesize at the end, you're being indoctrinated either way.

The writers may easily take " destroy" ending as canon ( because it is canon lol, just no need to be addressed at this point ) because they choose this ending right from the beginning by not letting us believe in Saren and or İM.

The real trick is to distract the player at the very end and let him to be indoctrinated at last if he or she sees things that way.

İf you happen to grasp the whole thing as a  whole, you began to realize what a masterpiece Bioware achieved with the ending.

İt is really ingenius to be able to indoctrinate the player at the end of the game with all clues, hints given to them already through 3 long games to be able to overcome that last indoctrination attempt and make them into believing that choosing control or synthesize was any good at all.

İt is just a wonderfull ending, just to much for a game really. For a game it has way to far artistic ingenuity and value.

They paved the way for games to be acknowledged as a new form of art with these three unique games.

This kind of storytelling has way more potential than any kind of movie or literature, it will improve over time.

İ for one have never experienced something like this before, read a lot, watched a lot. This differs them all. This went rigth through my heart and became a part of me, became my experience. Being a part of it has way more impact than just to be told about it. You just can empathize, sympathize through a book or a film to some degree.

This?

İt just takes you there, makes you breathe there, live there, makes you be in control, but yet never losing the artistic vision and has its own answers buried in arguments on matters. Not forcing you to accept them but by rewarding you doing the right things it also accepts that it has a standing point.

Grunt alive anyone? Of course he is, me being a goddamn saint, how couldn't he be.  Well, thanks for that Bioware, i was gonna burst in tears if he hadn't showed up covered in Rachni guts and asks for some snack.

My point is through all this it is really obvious to me that Mass Effect will continue with "destroy" being the canon ending.

So, there is really no reason not to believe that Shepard may return at all.

Also damaged Relays will be easily repaired with so many destroyed, derelict reapers all over the Galaxy, Reaper tech is all over the place...

Take my word for it, and see it for yourself in the future...

Destroy being the canon ending, Geth are not extinct. You'll see.

And we either play as Shepard once more or we will remember him being the conquerer of reapers.

Sorry but there is no future for synthesize or control ending. The concept itself is denying that in 3 goddamn games.

Refusal means no Krogan, no Turian, no Geth, no Human, no Asari, no Quarian, no Salarian...

İt may be the craziest thing for Bioware to take that path and create an all new Galaxy with new races in a new cycle again with reaper threat.

Also anyone remember the Yahg and that the Reapers doing nothing to them.

Yagh may be the new threat in the next game. They are fast learnig as Salarians, much more brutal than then the Krogans and they had not affected by the Reaper war.

İ know its hard to accept that ME has a canon ending at all but it has believe me.

Why the goddamn Rachni was available to Reapers to alter in ME 3 if you did kill the last Rachni Queen in ME1?

The found a solution to that right?

Yes, we have control over things but when it comes to storytelling Bioware is pulling the strings at critical points. Like there was no choice but to kill or make him kill himself situations like was with Saren and or İM. Like with the fate of the Rachni...

Think about it.

That was the concept right from the beginning, ME is interactive BUT has a masterpiece of a story that is driven and told by their writers. Player has control over characterization, interaction with npc's, most of the choices but has not at some points where the story progresses.

So Bioware will have no difficulty to explain why destroy ending is canon and then will be able to continue either a Shepard involved scenario or with a one which recognizes him as the savior of Galaxy and the doom of the Reapers.

That's the only way to progress and expand ME universe and its story without denying all those things that took place in the trilogy.

A sequel or even a new trilogy with progress over ME3 is only available that way and comes only with Destroy ending.

The continuation of the story and this being through destroy ending was already been hinted at various points in all three games, there is no bad writing, no loop holes, no logical mistakes at all if you can manage to see all the clues given.

The ending of ME 3 is just a masterpiece and has no bad writing or loose ties involved. İt was crafted wonderfully if you can grasp it.

No single being rather than Saren and İM had pointed other than destroy ending, there is none, literally. Those two being indoctrinated and you are being proved them wrong or simply rejecting and killing them is enough evidence of Synthesize or Control was not an option at all and can easily be ignored by those evidences given by Bioware themselves in the future if they ever intend to make a trilogy or a sequel with the real canon Destroy ending. And they will eventually do it at some point maybe after some spin off, prequel kind a game or games. They surely will return to progress the story after Shepard destroying Reapers.

There is a reason Shepard took that last breathe and Stargazer replying "ok one more story about Shepard."

He he, Shepard will return inevitably, either being remembered for saving the galaxy by destroying Reapers or even better ( for me anyway ) right after that gasp.

C'mon man wake up already you give a god damn promise to Miri for the first time ever, be true to your word, keep your promise.

Damn it find her !

Find Garrus and do a bottle shooting contest !

Drink Rynchol with Wrex and Grunt !

But mostly find her, you deserved to be together.

Yes, for me Miri was the only real love for male Shep. Has so much more than her looks. So much more passion, love, commitment then the others, much deeper than maiden Liara even... She loved him with so real intentions and both maturely and with innocence of a child's love.

Lucky me having a wonderful girl who reminds me of Miri ( i perceive them as one i guess  ) both physically and mentally. With true motives of love, with true perception of love and both with a strong character and a fragility only for her loved one.<3

This comes only with a real woman along with a real love towards you.

Those two never comes easy to one together, you have to fight for it, be true to it, or it will perish or never happen at all. Just like Miranda's love to Shepard. Real love never starts instantenously, or to make it clearer never been realized instantenously, you have to work your way to reach it, grasp it.

Easily shown interest generally never becomes a love for a lifetime. 

For me it was evident ( true love ) in Miranda, and to some extent in Liara only. But Asari being a creature of pure love and commitment already in nature, at least having a very strong tendency towards it, ( like any Asari and especially Liara ) makes Miranda even more special in my eyes.

Enough already, im done! 

Give me my ME 4 with Shepard and Miranda dammit !

Oh, Wrex, Grunt, Garrus, Tali, Liara, Samara, Jack and the others along with them. But never without Wrex and Garrus !

And if all the thoughts i've been putting through that messege have ever been read by anyone, i, dear sir or madame, thank you for sparing your time in doing so. 

Modifié par urazoktay, 30 mars 2013 - 04:52 .

[mtmercydave09]

I wouldn't mind having Shepard back in ME4. I know they've said he won't be featured, but that doesn't mean he can't be included in a side mission or two.  Shepard's not exactly an old man/woman, they can have more adventures.

For the love of God if Ashley is in the next ME, at least develop her character more or something, or do some better writing.  Her character needs some love from the writers.

I think it's more important thought that at least a couple of the other characters are brought back, especially if the game takes place in the future. There needs to be some kind of link (it could just be lore in the codex) to the trilogy.

If they don't do that, I think it's going to be hard for Bioware to win over people because they've set the bar high with the characters they developed. They didn't have to worry about this with the original ME because it was all brand new and no precedent was set.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 30 mars 2013 - 01:23 .

[arial]

please do not necro.... especially when its a wall of text necro...

[PwrdOff]

Mass Effect 4 - The Bewildering Biotic Adventures of Niftu Cal

[mtmercydave09]

I wouldn't mind Shepard taking Anderson's place as Admiral, or being Earth Ambassador. He just wouldn't be going on any missions.

[urazoktay]

Mass Effect 2... Sends shivers to my body watching it's launch trailer each time...

Best game ever been made, one of the best piece of art in human history, and yes im not overrating it...

Just can't tell enough about it... Damn, the very beginning of it, Shepard sacrificing himself ( and also making a joke out of it in ME 3 to Joker...) to rescue Joker...

Words are not enough...

Bioware, just continue doing your art, you're doing more than you realize probably...

İ'm with you all the way, till the end, will trust you, will believe you till the end, count me one of yours, i felt every inch of passion you put in that game, every piece of art, from music score to game design, from characters to textures...

And i do share the same vision you try to give us by telling the best story i've ever been told...

İt's just like listening a fairy tale from your grandpa ( mine, Avni Dede raised me with all his creative tales he just made at that moment ) And it has the same impact, funny eh.

Will never grow up, no intend in doing so, i believe you wholeheartedly, i believe in your art, jusy continue doing what you really do the best.

Tell us stories worthy being told, you have the love no other game developer has. That's your doing, And that's something very special.

Don't lose this connection for things not worth it...

[Spartas Husky]

Yes put him back on Mass Effect 4. Another reason not to buy it. Not that I need another one but adding one more to the list doesn't hurt me.

[mtmercydave09]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Yes put him back on Mass Effect 4. Another reason not to buy it. Not that I need another one but adding one more to the list doesn't hurt me.

How could anyone not want more Shep?  Even if he's not the main character?

[wolfsite]

*Wolfsite comes into thread.  Gets Critically hit by wall of Text*

*Wolfsite Fainted*

[Venom man4]

It's gonna be hard for anyone to write a good sequel to the trilogy with or without Shepard.

I really don't want a prequel.

[Spartas Husky]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Yes put him back on Mass Effect 4. Another reason not to buy it. Not that I need another one but adding one more to the list doesn't hurt me.

How could anyone not want more Shep?  Even if he's not the main character?

Pisses off everyone for ignoring the endings if is after.

And we already know how it ends if is before or during. There is no silver line with Shepard anymore.

It is a case of... fu*& if you do, fu%&97 if you don't.

[mtmercydave09]

Spartas Husky wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Yes put him back on Mass Effect 4. Another reason not to buy it. Not that I need another one but adding one more to the list doesn't hurt me.

How could anyone not want more Shep?  Even if he's not the main character?

Pisses off everyone for ignoring the endings if is after.

And we already know how it ends if is before or during. There is no silver line with Shepard anymore.

It is a case of... fu*& if you do, fu%&97 if you don't.

True, if the next game comes after, I think at least include Shep and company in the codex.  That would only be logical.

For me though the next ME will be a hard sell for me without Shep, just because I've grown used to him and the other characters.  Just because at this point for me when I think of Mass Effect, the next word I think is Shepard.

[Spartas Husky]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Yes put him back on Mass Effect 4. Another reason not to buy it. Not that I need another one but adding one more to the list doesn't hurt me.

How could anyone not want more Shep?  Even if he's not the main character?

Pisses off everyone for ignoring the endings if is after.

And we already know how it ends if is before or during. There is no silver line with Shepard anymore.

It is a case of... fu*& if you do, fu%&97 if you don't.

True, if the next game comes after, I think at least include Shep and company in the codex.  That would only be logical.

For me though the next ME will be a hard sell for me without Shep, just because I've grown used to him and the other characters.  Just because at this point for me when I think of Mass Effect, the next word I think is Shepard.

For me characters have to be laid to rest. Maybe they take shep for the next round maybe not. But not before they address the lore they themselves laid down. its intrinsic to storytelling to follow your own rules...

You know what long story short, ending as it is will make me take a stand. Nothing they do in the future will yield me one way or the other. So no buying for me with or without shepard.

[Nykara]

They should do both, another game in the ME universe - spin off, and another Shepard ME game as well at the same time or around the same time. Bet both would be big sellers to.

[Nykara]

Lyrandori wrote...

I don't mind about Shepard's journey ending... I never actually cared about the fact that it was to end, since I always fully expected Mass Effect to be a trilogy and nothing else. But of course since money talks then it's going beyond the initially-thought "trilogy" with Mass Effect 4, figures.

They actually *always* right from the start said that Commander Shepards story would be a trilogy but that there would be other games set in the Mass Effect universe. Right from ME1 it was never going to just be a Mass Effect universe trilogy.

[d1ta]

I'm expecting that Shepard and Co got mentioned in the next ME game via codex (or maybe we get to see a monument built for their honour, LoL) or maybe Shep+LI+Buddy gets a cameo, rescuing you from a tight situation (can't think of a better situation, LoL. Not that creative) and that's already stretching it out a bit for me.

Don't get me wrong, I do so love Shepard, more than any other character that I've ever crafted in a video game.
But remembering the sheer amount of variables that they have to account for IF they want to continue Shepard's story and not to mention about which of the old squaddies could / could not make it to the roster (especially if those companions holds the LI status)
... Then I'd rather have a new protagonist and new sets of faces.

Because I honestly don't think they could pull all the above smoothly and if they don't, it will only anger (enrage is more likely) a lot of people.

First: to continue directly after ME3:
Your Shepard wakes up in a what kind of world? Because the Universe in 'Destroy' will be different from the ones in Control, radically more so in Synthesis and Refuse. If BW picked a canon ending like Destroy (and I am an adamant believer in Destroy. Nothing can convince me to choose anything else except for MEHEM) then it wouldn't be fair for those who didn't make the 'right' choice and we'll be hearing those 'Our choices didn't matter' again chorus.

2nd: The Companions and LI.
Will all the LI make it back in the series? Who amongst the companions should be left out? Looking at the sheer numbers of LI in ME3, I doubt all will make it back. And if they do (going the ME2 route with large selection of squaddies) How will they be treated? Just remember what they did to Jacob Taylor, the only LI in ME2 that says 'I love you' to Shepard and then come ME3... Yeah. I'm just grateful I didn't romance that dude. Miranda was a prominent figure in ME2 being TIM's 2nd in command and in ME3.. Yeah. Her cameos were okayish and better fleshed out compared to the others, but damn, since we're up against Cerberus I was kinda hoping for something more from her role.

So yes, I prefer to let Shepard and her (or his) chosen LI/BFF story put to rest. There is nothing I want more than going to another story adventure with Kaidan again, but damn I'd be lying if I'm not terrified (several degrees above terrified actually) of what will BW do to him or their story arc if they decide to make a direct sequel of Shepard's story.

TL;DR: I prefer it NOT to have another Shepard because it will be a MUCH easier task to create something from a clean slate. Better have a simple® and fresh idea with flawless execution than a grand concept that's executed poorly.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

1) There is going to be a major retcon of the endings anyway, and they are going to have to sweep the monstrosity of the ending under the rug and pretend it never happened that way in the first place.
2) They can say Shepard died in all of the endings.
3) Yet it is very simple to bring Shepard back. How? Liara goes back to Cronos station and finds another clone. They don't simply make a single clone. Liara carries the full memory of Shepard deep in her consciousness. Liara's Gift is canon.

4) The appearance of the clone is canon. This is the out.
5) So Liara finds the clone, activates it and does her mind meld with it and transfers Shepard's memories to it.

Voila! Shepard before the beam run. Lazarus II. This is there for a reason in case the Shepardless ME doesn't do well.

[mtmercydave09]

d1ta wrote...

I'm expecting that Shepard and Co got mentioned in the next ME game via codex (or maybe we get to see a monument built for their honour, LoL) or maybe Shep+LI+Buddy gets a cameo, rescuing you from a tight situation (can't think of a better situation, LoL. Not that creative) and that's already stretching it out a bit for me.

Don't get me wrong, I do so love Shepard, more than any other character that I've ever crafted in a video game.
But remembering the sheer amount of variables that they have to account for IF they want to continue Shepard's story and not to mention about which of the old squaddies could / could not make it to the roster (especially if those companions holds the LI status)
... Then I'd rather have a new protagonist and new sets of faces.

Because I honestly don't think they could pull all the above smoothly and if they don't, it will only anger (enrage is more likely) a lot of people.

First: to continue directly after ME3:
Your Shepard wakes up in a what kind of world? Because the Universe in 'Destroy' will be different from the ones in Control, radically more so in Synthesis and Refuse. If BW picked a canon ending like Destroy (and I am an adamant believer in Destroy. Nothing can convince me to choose anything else except for MEHEM) then it wouldn't be fair for those who didn't make the 'right' choice and we'll be hearing those 'Our choices didn't matter' again chorus.

2nd: The Companions and LI.
Will all the LI make it back in the series? Who amongst the companions should be left out? Looking at the sheer numbers of LI in ME3, I doubt all will make it back. And if they do (going the ME2 route with large selection of squaddies) How will they be treated? Just remember what they did to Jacob Taylor, the only LI in ME2 that says 'I love you' to Shepard and then come ME3... Yeah. I'm just grateful I didn't romance that dude. Miranda was a prominent figure in ME2 being TIM's 2nd in command and in ME3.. Yeah. Her cameos were okayish and better fleshed out compared to the others, but damn, since we're up against Cerberus I was kinda hoping for something more from her role.

So yes, I prefer to let Shepard and her (or his) chosen LI/BFF story put to rest. There is nothing I want more than going to another story adventure with Kaidan again, but damn I'd be lying if I'm not terrified (several degrees above terrified actually) of what will BW do to him or their story arc if they decide to make a direct sequel of Shepard's story.

TL;DR: I prefer it NOT to have another Shepard because it will be a MUCH easier task to create something from a clean slate. Better have a simple® and fresh idea with flawless execution than a grand concept that's executed poorly.

I could see all the LI coming back, but only based on an imported ME3 save on who you picked to be your LI.  Kind of like how they did ME3 where if you didn't have an imported ME3 save you either got Kaiden/Ashley depending on your gender.  Or maybe they'd give you the option to choose during character creation, which wouldn't be so bad either.

[FlyingSquirrel]

While I'd like to see Shepard again, my general feeling is that I want the endings I picked for each of my Sheps in ME3 to be the endings. The only way I'd want to see Shepard again in ME4 is *if* they found a way to retcon Control and Synthesis to have Shepard still alive somehow and without outright contradicting what we saw on the screen in ME3. I'm not a big fan of the endings, but I'm even less of a fan of being told to just forget what was presented as established history.

Refusers, I guess, would simply be up the creek - I don't see how a post-Refuse game could possibly have the same plot as a post-Control/Synthesis/Destroy game.

I guess they could go pre-ME1, but that would be almost as difficult given the diversity of backgrounds that they let us pick for Shepard, unless they did something similar to Dragon Age and had Elysium/Akuze/Torfan as the first mission and then the rest of the game the same after that. Still, that would require Shepard having some other sort of "big" story that we never heard about and had little effect on the galaxy's status quo - that would be a tough one to finesse.

[zakdillon]

Nykara wrote...

They should do both, another game in the ME universe - spin off, and another Shepard ME game as well at the same time or around the same time. Bet both would be big sellers to.

This. Do both. Make both sides happy. And make lots of money while you do it. That's just good business.

[robertthebard]

No, Shepard's story is done, for better or worse. It's time to move on to the countless other stories that can be told in the ME universe.

[urazoktay]

For all you guys, there is always a canon ending to a story that's being told the way Mass effect does.

İt doesn't have to be spoken out loud at this moment. Storytelling and the ideology behind the whole series demands it, hints at it. Break the Cycle... Cycle varies and continues in other forms in a way with Synth or Control.

You just did not have all the control you think you had in the series. Try to grasp it...

No matter what, you always had to oppose Saren ( sythesize ) and İM ( control ) can't you see how it works?

The game never let you to side with Saren or İM, you just have the option of how you oppose them, Kill them via renegade attitude or charm them and make them kill themselves via paragon.

The trick is that. At some certain times you only have the freedom of choice of attitude towards the same resolve.

İt all comes to this. There was no choice other than the "destroy" story wise. İt was hinted to you all the way right from the first game, especially in the third game everything points you to that direction. Legion, Edi, Hackett, Anderson, everyone.

Choosing Control or Synthesize just means that you had been indoctrinated at last and picked the wrong ones and doom the galaxy.

Those two options will never be canon. And if you happen to realize how Mass Effect storytelling works than you can easily understand it's so easy and inevitable for Bioware to make Destroy as canon.

İt's the way how a story continues, if they ever want to expand the universe after the events that took place in ME 3's ending.

Just get it already.

Your choices did not matter at some certain points for the sake of story to continue. Like even you killed the so called  LAST Rachni queen it came back somehow in the last game. Like whatever you wanted to do you always ignored the way Saren and İM thoughts on matters.

This applies to the end also.

No matter if you were a paragon or renegade, you had just one option to end the story as the narrative dictates throughout the series. Conrol is İM that you never accepted siding with, Synthesize is Saren you always refused to side with.

İf, and  only if that the story itself gave you the option to side with them than you could say yes we had other two options.

Don't just analyze it as a video game, from a storytelling, narrative perspective it surely has a canon ending.

Mass Effect's real form of free choice was always more about the characterization than control over the story.

You had full control on your relations, how you act to people, how you respond to events and indiviuals around you and you had full control of little stories and some real big ones. But it was all about shaping your character, about how you perceive the world, it was reflected to Shepard by those choices. İn a way, you put yourself to the game as who you are.

BUT... you had never really have full control over where the story goes. İt's main plot was always directed like it should be, like in any other art form of telling a great story.

There is nothing wrong about that.

You believed you would be riding with your crew in Normandy at the end of ME 2 but instead you found yourself on earth, your crew disassambled. You see, story has it's form of linearity to some degree.

So, if you can understand the concept from a narrative perspective you would't be surprised at all that it has a canon ending in reality. Those two other options will be ignored, cause Shepard ignored them regardless of your choices all along the way till the end. Narrative dictated that to you.

Mass Effect was not a full simulation, it was not about shaping everything out there. İt gave you freedom of choice and full control over your characterization and attidude towards individuals and over many minor and major matters but just not over all of them.

Mass Effect was as much as about telling a story ( reagardless of how you shaped it along the way to some degree ) as it is about having full control over your characterization.

Think of it, just don't got stuck with a gamer perspective. Over all it was a great story, and each story has only one ending to it.

İ wouldn't be telling these if we really had full control on everthing, but in fact we never really had it.

Variables yes, we had control over them, but knowing the way story dictates itself, we can assume we only had some degree of control over it.

To tell a great story, to be able to call it an art form, you have to have some degree of control over it and the real trick is to make people believe thay have full control over everything. That's called Bioware magic.  That's why people got frustrated and enraged towards Bioware. Lol this alone proves their succes, they really did make people believe that they had full control over everything. 

Been done otherwise it would be a simulation instead, which Mass Effect simply isn't to full extend. İt has a driven main plot with only one real logical ending to it. And it was hinted to you all the way.


And despite all anger and frustration towards the ending of ME 3, it was a masterpiece, it's just not easy to grasp, that's all. İt seems otherwise at first but it is just way more complicated than how people perceived it.

You see, everyone can make a return, everthing can be made canon easily for the sake of the story.

But the other choices you made along the way can be included in too. But they also can be ignored.

İt's not that hard really.

You killed the Geth and side with Quarians on rannoch? Oh heck, they can easily be put in another ME game via some explanation just like Rachni. Read below how so?

You didn't cured the genophage? Yep it can be undone easily too. Some others will cure it.


How? you say, and i say GETH are software in essence, LEGİON told that to you, yes, dead platforms won't make them go extinct at all. Their real life is on GETH consensus if you remember. Other option for them to be able to survive relates to that they are not half organic half synthetic like Reapers and we did not see anything about their extinction in slide shows via Destroy ending, did we?

Remember Crucible was designed to target only the Reapers and them alone.

Reapers were not Synthetics. They were a combination of Syntetic and organic life form. EDİ told you that at the end of ME 2.

All the hints were given really, you just have to pay attention to all those little details given to you throughout your journey. They were always there in conversations, in codex's.

You just have to find the connections.

Crucible has never been used before and Starchild -Harbinger- was just tryin to manipulate you by saying all Synthetic life would die if you choose to destroy them. İt was a trap, it was trying to make you to take the Synthesize or control path.

Cause they just cared about SELF PRESERVATİON AS EDİ SAİD TO YOU and they need Sytnthetic and organic life to BREED, FEED, to exist. Reapers were just parasites to Galaxy. Their so called solution to impose order to chaos were proven wrong by you if you could manage to get Geth and the Quarian's to make peace.

İn fact, their logic was flawed and they were the real chaos for Galaxy, not a solution to them. And they were not needed at all anymore.

No way Starchild could be sure how Crucible will work.,  (or worse it was all aware of Crucible will only destroy the Reapers) . No one ever used it before, but he acts like he knows all the outcomes, and by doing so directing you towards Synth and if not Control endings.

İt's only intention was to drag you out of destroy option. And he made you think he GİVES you the destroy option also. This is just the illusion of free choice, but in reality it's just trying to manipulate you by saying "you have the power to destroy US, but if you do so, you'll destroy others", DON'T DO İT DAMMİT !

You were NEVER given the destroy option in fact. İt was always your only intention, that's being destroying the Reapers right from the start. He just makes you believe HE gives you that option. Which is wrong.

You already did everything just to destroy them. You did not do all those things just to turn the life on the whole galaxy into Cybernetic Soulles Reapers or become the new Harbinger losing your organic perception and logic.


Why am i telling all these?

Because it was always like this for some main plot progression in whole series.

And it will continue like this for a sequel if Bioware's intention is to make a sequal.

İ guess it is easy to get the idea how things work in Mass Effect storytelling.

Edi dead? Oops but it was just her body, EDİ was Normandy any one:lol:, EDİ was software in essence just like GETH were.

You see, they just have lots of options, and they did this on purpose. İ think Bioware writers are indeed very talented ones. You just have to look to the hints given throughout the whole series.

No bad writing or loop holes, illlogical situations at all. They are just well hidden or not outspoken, that's it.

When you see how things worked out, you'll all be pleased by their explanations on matters i believe.

Oh these ideas are all for a sequel of course.

Modifié par urazoktay, 01 avril 2013 - 09:09 .