Who knows, maybe Mass Effect will return to Shepard depending how well the next ME games do. If they do bad, then Shepard will be brought back in a new story or a continuation of the current trilogy - bank on it as Shepard and Mass Effect go hand in hand. The pressure is on Bioware and EA for these next series of ME games to justify their belief in ending Shepard's story at ME3.
We (i) want Shepard back in ME4!!!
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, mars 13 2012 12:17
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#377
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 06:47
urazoktay
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@ AlanC9,or simply to everyone...
Ok, here i go again.
ASSUMİNG DİRECT CONTROL.
Do you remember the main idea of Mass Effect, unity through diversity... Can you see any form of diversity in Synthesize path...
Can you deny all life in the Galaxy loses their essence.
Do you remember what Javik told you back in ME 3; " our power became our weakness, all life in the Galaxy shared the same culture, same thoughts, had same visions, in a way they were all Prothean, we lost our diversity. İn this cycle each race has its differences with them, and if you can unite them as they are you may have a chance to win this war..."
Look i never fantasysize or make things out of my head, i just find the given answers from the series.
Synth means opposing all Mass Effect stands for. Why?
Geth refused to unite with reapers, they refused to be a part of Reaper commune, Edi said she would rather die than to be a part of them...
Look, i know it's not easy to get it, but what's the point of being alive if a Krogan is not a Krogan anymore. A krogan and a Salarian thinks, feels and acts the same with Synth ending...
They were all brainswashed, forced to gain Reaper perspective, how come you say this is any good.
Would you like someone to take away your individualism from you? A husk and a Turian feels the same way about anything, do you really think this is normal?
Javik warned you about that, Synth is the same thing ( and of course far worse than it, because it was a forced upon unnatural evolution ) what Protheans done to other races culturally. And by all means won't end well in the long run.
Evolution can't be forced upon, unlike Starchild ( Harbinger in fact ) told you that now organics are ready for that unnatural fusing, no life in the Galaxy should accept that if ever asked about it.
HE just admits it right before he wants YOU to force this evolution upon all life instead... Really hilarious...
Starchild ironically confims that this so called evolution can not be forced and then tries to make you force it upon all life in the Galaxy by tricking you...
Why people give what Starchild had to say to us too much credit is beyond me... How come one can't see he is no Starchild or else, he was Harbinger just trying to trick you. İt was hinted to you on Rannoch by the Reaper you just destroyed. " Finish your war, we will be there in the end." Can't you really figure this out.
Believe me im not building things in my mind, it is so obvious.
You came all the way to believe what this so called starchild told you? Really?
Let's continue...
Synth is not needed by Geth or by any organic life in the Galaxy, they all made clear that thay wanted their free will, their right to shape their future and that this was above anything else. And each race in th Galaxy united through diversity for the sake of their existance...
Geth really made this clear, they rejected every offer from the Reapers, just remember what Geth Prime told you back in London.
How come one can decide to turn all life in the Galaxy some kind a hive mind. What's the difference between an ant and a synthesized being on those terms. ( of course not the same but you get the point ) İt is unnatural, it is indeed against nature and essence of life, it opposes self awereness and individualism. Those were the things you fought for.
How come one can't see the flaw in Reaper machine logic. How on earth Starchild also says Synthesize was İNEVİTABLE and still needs you for it to happen...
İt makes no sense to reject Saren and then accept his logic in the end storywise, from a narrative point of view.
All life in the Galaxy, organic or not was expecting you to kill the reapers but instead you chose to alter their essence, to brainwash them.
Losing genetical and cultural diversity only leads to extinction in the end... Losing genetical diversity ends up pretty bad, also losing cultural diversity ends up that way also. These are real life facts.
Back to the game... You remember that technological and cultural - unnatural just like Synthesize- uplifting of Krogan ended up pretty bad?
You were warned by this example also to avoid Synth...
Think of it, would you really want those green eyes and synthetic DNA structure in you?
Even Geth and Edi was disgusted of the idea...
And this is just an insult to any life form. And the worst thing that happens to life is not that at all.
All individuals, all races, loses their identity, their free will, their different views on matters. İn fact this means they lose their souls...
Can't you see the difference how EDİ talks and thinks before Synth and after Synth.
İt's all comes to that really.
You think like a reaper or you think like the rest of the galaxy, including both Synthetic and or Organic life...
Machine logic or self aware and independent organic and synthetic logic. There is quite a difference between Synthetics like Geth and half Synthetic half organic but pure machine logic Reapers.
Geth and Edi evolved way past Reapers consciousness.
Reapers never really understood life at all and never really sensed how being alive feels like...
Their technology might be greater than the rest of the galaxy but their understanding of life, value of life was primitive compared to the rest of the galaxy at the end of ME 3.
You're just doing them a favor by choosing Synth. And taking all away from life in the galaxy, essentially you just undo each accomplishment you ever achieved in whole series.
Reapers only cared about their self preservation, Edi said that... They found their purpose to exist in the flawed solution of harvesting all life in the galaxy and they just tried to justify this by saying they were doing this in order to impose order on chaos, to preserve life... Oh yes, they came to that conclusion, " the created will always rebel against their creators so we just bla bla bla... C'mon, you figured this out by REBELLİNG against your own creators in the first place, by harversting Leviathans? Really? So you were the real threat you kept talking about on Synthetics destroying Organics right from the start, what a broken logic this is. İt's pure nonsense.
They were the real chaos, real PROBLEM on all life through endless cycles. Their broken machine logic just couldn't accept that.
And when they were proven useless, wrong, finding the crucible ready to destroy them once and for all, by showing them how it is possible for Geth and organics to coexist and even further how they united against Reapers, they just tried to preserve themselves. They just tried to find ways to make their existance have some kind a meaning.
You already found the solution to this atrocity putting the crucible right under their noses, and yet Starchild says he had some solutions lol. What are you talking about really? The only solution was you to go extinct and we are just one step away from this to happen.
No, starchild just tries to give you this impression of desperation, in fact Reapers were desperate at the end.
Why do you think if you didn't bother empathizing him, his last words were " do what you must! Damm it, i couldn't manipulate him! in other words.
Why do you think Starchild tried to make you believe HE is letting you to choose, and couldn't stop you from destroying them?
Like there were any option really, you were already there with the intention of destroying them.
Because he knew he lost the fight already, it was his last attemp to prevent you from destroying them.
" Finish your war, we will be there in the end..."
Ok, screw it, just accept the İNDOCTRİNATED ( damn, even they admitted they were indoctrinated ) twisted logic of SAREN and İLLUSİVE MAN and pick one of their REAPER influenced SOLUTİONS instead!
Seriously?
Oh and it doesn't change anything if you were given the options of choosing other than to destroy.
To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact on REAPER plot.
Those options were there to support what that reaper on Rannoch warned you about...From a narrative point, it simply referances that you win the war or lose it via some other options.
İn order to make defeat seem like some kind a victory, solution, trying to manipulate you was the only option left for Harbinger in the end so he did his best to drag you away from the idea of destroying them...
With lies... Crucible was calibrated for Reapers, why believe it would kill Synths also? Even if it was to destroy Synthetics, it would never ever kill GETH and EDİ at all...
Why?
Because unlike the Reapers GETH and EDİ was software in essence, they were alive as a software.
Legion said that to you, "our real life is in GETH CONSENSUS" our platforms are not needed for us to be alive.
So what now, even the crucible destroyed their platforms, you remember there were gazillions of Geth software in the servers right? And in the future they can easily made another platforms for their "alive" forms.
There is no fiction or imagining here, this all comes from in game.
Edi is the same, she didn't need her platform to exist, she was Normandy, remember? And Normandy survived...
Another body for her, problem solved.
Why do you think Joker was all happy even after destroy ending when he stepped out of Normandy?
Maybe he was talking to EDİ before that-even if her body was non functional- through Normandy? This may include some imaginations i admit, but it's taken from in game footage at least.
Also, Edi's last words to Shepard ( if she was with you at the end ) when she was picked up by Normandy were; "This platform is not really needed for me to stay alive, let me come with you..."
So, you grasp it now?
Edi may very well be alive as Geth may be via destroy ending.
Hints are here and there if you pay enough attention to the game and just not take what Starchild told you as god's amendments lol...
i am really amused by the tendency of people to believe and trust in Starchild and took his words as the undeniable truth. Also this tendency of seeing things through Saren's and İllusive Man's eyes instead of the WHOLE DAMN GALAXY is just hilarious i might add...
And if you still think choosing synth or control were any good, sorry but i can't help you on this one anymore.
And please, if you bother to reply just don't pick something and go all demogoging on it.
Come with facts as i did please, support them with in game data. What if's means nothing if you can't support them with something taken from the story, dialogs or from Mass Effect Trilogy as a whole.
İt's not convincing to say someone; İt doesn't mean we can't choose otherwise at the end even though those other options oppose everthing we had done in the series.
You're not making a point by saying this, we all know there are choices in the end. Who denies that you can choose other options? That's pure demogogy if i ever seen one.
The thing is that there are no several right choices, only one.
So your only argument can be made through proving Synthesize or Control were any good over destroy ending.
And by just saying; "choosing Synth or Control is good, you save the galaxy, yes?", you prove nothing...
Oh, you can only imagine Control or Synthesize being any good via fantasyzing the future. You can never back those utopic future predictions with real support from the Trilogy itself.
Guess why? Because those two control and synthesize ideas was rejected via Saren, illusive Man and via lots of other things all along Mass Effect.
Just try to find some support for them from the source itself, you will fail...
And if you are not able to find any kind of support from the source itself to back the ideas which were introduced by the source and therefore via storytelling, opposed and refused afterwards by the same source itself, then you have nothing to stand for already...
İt was given you by the source, it was proven wrong to you by the source through your journey.
And if you couldn't grasp it, it has nothing to do with your choices or beliefs, because every story has only one ending to it and every good written story tries to hide its true motives to a degree.
Because not doing so makes a good story only a propaganda.
İt is and it should be up to you to extract the truth and sense it as you experience your story.
Try it, you can't find anything against the idea of destroying the reapers from Mass Effect series but as i've evidenced to you, you can find truckloads of opposition against Synthesize and Control ideas within the source itself, source being Mass Effect Trilogy of course.
İf those can't make things clear for you, nothing will ever do. Your only source for the ending of Mass Effect is indeed Mass Effect Trilogy and not some future fantesies trying to prove Synth or control will do any good to the galaxy.
You have to make your points and prove them, support them through the narrative. Not just through some assumptions that are ONLY related to future. Doing otherwise means you're fantasizing and denying the concept of "DRİVEN STORY" which Mass Effect has it in itself.
Now maybe people can realize what "Artistic İntegrity" was about.
After all, i believe there is only one way to continue the story, and i tried to explain why i believed so. Hope this was of any help.
And if i ever offended you somehow, accept my apologies for doing so.
Have a good day.![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
Ok, here i go again.
ASSUMİNG DİRECT CONTROL.
Do you remember the main idea of Mass Effect, unity through diversity... Can you see any form of diversity in Synthesize path...
Can you deny all life in the Galaxy loses their essence.
Do you remember what Javik told you back in ME 3; " our power became our weakness, all life in the Galaxy shared the same culture, same thoughts, had same visions, in a way they were all Prothean, we lost our diversity. İn this cycle each race has its differences with them, and if you can unite them as they are you may have a chance to win this war..."
Look i never fantasysize or make things out of my head, i just find the given answers from the series.
Synth means opposing all Mass Effect stands for. Why?
Geth refused to unite with reapers, they refused to be a part of Reaper commune, Edi said she would rather die than to be a part of them...
Look, i know it's not easy to get it, but what's the point of being alive if a Krogan is not a Krogan anymore. A krogan and a Salarian thinks, feels and acts the same with Synth ending...
They were all brainswashed, forced to gain Reaper perspective, how come you say this is any good.
Would you like someone to take away your individualism from you? A husk and a Turian feels the same way about anything, do you really think this is normal?
Javik warned you about that, Synth is the same thing ( and of course far worse than it, because it was a forced upon unnatural evolution ) what Protheans done to other races culturally. And by all means won't end well in the long run.
Evolution can't be forced upon, unlike Starchild ( Harbinger in fact ) told you that now organics are ready for that unnatural fusing, no life in the Galaxy should accept that if ever asked about it.
HE just admits it right before he wants YOU to force this evolution upon all life instead... Really hilarious...
Starchild ironically confims that this so called evolution can not be forced and then tries to make you force it upon all life in the Galaxy by tricking you...
Why people give what Starchild had to say to us too much credit is beyond me... How come one can't see he is no Starchild or else, he was Harbinger just trying to trick you. İt was hinted to you on Rannoch by the Reaper you just destroyed. " Finish your war, we will be there in the end." Can't you really figure this out.
Believe me im not building things in my mind, it is so obvious.
You came all the way to believe what this so called starchild told you? Really?
Let's continue...
Synth is not needed by Geth or by any organic life in the Galaxy, they all made clear that thay wanted their free will, their right to shape their future and that this was above anything else. And each race in th Galaxy united through diversity for the sake of their existance...
Geth really made this clear, they rejected every offer from the Reapers, just remember what Geth Prime told you back in London.
How come one can decide to turn all life in the Galaxy some kind a hive mind. What's the difference between an ant and a synthesized being on those terms. ( of course not the same but you get the point ) İt is unnatural, it is indeed against nature and essence of life, it opposes self awereness and individualism. Those were the things you fought for.
How come one can't see the flaw in Reaper machine logic. How on earth Starchild also says Synthesize was İNEVİTABLE and still needs you for it to happen...
İt makes no sense to reject Saren and then accept his logic in the end storywise, from a narrative point of view.
All life in the Galaxy, organic or not was expecting you to kill the reapers but instead you chose to alter their essence, to brainwash them.
Losing genetical and cultural diversity only leads to extinction in the end... Losing genetical diversity ends up pretty bad, also losing cultural diversity ends up that way also. These are real life facts.
Back to the game... You remember that technological and cultural - unnatural just like Synthesize- uplifting of Krogan ended up pretty bad?
You were warned by this example also to avoid Synth...
Think of it, would you really want those green eyes and synthetic DNA structure in you?
Even Geth and Edi was disgusted of the idea...
And this is just an insult to any life form. And the worst thing that happens to life is not that at all.
All individuals, all races, loses their identity, their free will, their different views on matters. İn fact this means they lose their souls...
Can't you see the difference how EDİ talks and thinks before Synth and after Synth.
İt's all comes to that really.
You think like a reaper or you think like the rest of the galaxy, including both Synthetic and or Organic life...
Machine logic or self aware and independent organic and synthetic logic. There is quite a difference between Synthetics like Geth and half Synthetic half organic but pure machine logic Reapers.
Geth and Edi evolved way past Reapers consciousness.
Reapers never really understood life at all and never really sensed how being alive feels like...
Their technology might be greater than the rest of the galaxy but their understanding of life, value of life was primitive compared to the rest of the galaxy at the end of ME 3.
You're just doing them a favor by choosing Synth. And taking all away from life in the galaxy, essentially you just undo each accomplishment you ever achieved in whole series.
Reapers only cared about their self preservation, Edi said that... They found their purpose to exist in the flawed solution of harvesting all life in the galaxy and they just tried to justify this by saying they were doing this in order to impose order on chaos, to preserve life... Oh yes, they came to that conclusion, " the created will always rebel against their creators so we just bla bla bla... C'mon, you figured this out by REBELLİNG against your own creators in the first place, by harversting Leviathans? Really? So you were the real threat you kept talking about on Synthetics destroying Organics right from the start, what a broken logic this is. İt's pure nonsense.
They were the real chaos, real PROBLEM on all life through endless cycles. Their broken machine logic just couldn't accept that.
And when they were proven useless, wrong, finding the crucible ready to destroy them once and for all, by showing them how it is possible for Geth and organics to coexist and even further how they united against Reapers, they just tried to preserve themselves. They just tried to find ways to make their existance have some kind a meaning.
You already found the solution to this atrocity putting the crucible right under their noses, and yet Starchild says he had some solutions lol. What are you talking about really? The only solution was you to go extinct and we are just one step away from this to happen.
No, starchild just tries to give you this impression of desperation, in fact Reapers were desperate at the end.
Why do you think if you didn't bother empathizing him, his last words were " do what you must! Damm it, i couldn't manipulate him! in other words.
Why do you think Starchild tried to make you believe HE is letting you to choose, and couldn't stop you from destroying them?
Like there were any option really, you were already there with the intention of destroying them.
Because he knew he lost the fight already, it was his last attemp to prevent you from destroying them.
" Finish your war, we will be there in the end..."
Ok, screw it, just accept the İNDOCTRİNATED ( damn, even they admitted they were indoctrinated ) twisted logic of SAREN and İLLUSİVE MAN and pick one of their REAPER influenced SOLUTİONS instead!
Seriously?
Oh and it doesn't change anything if you were given the options of choosing other than to destroy.
To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact on REAPER plot.
Those options were there to support what that reaper on Rannoch warned you about...From a narrative point, it simply referances that you win the war or lose it via some other options.
İn order to make defeat seem like some kind a victory, solution, trying to manipulate you was the only option left for Harbinger in the end so he did his best to drag you away from the idea of destroying them...
With lies... Crucible was calibrated for Reapers, why believe it would kill Synths also? Even if it was to destroy Synthetics, it would never ever kill GETH and EDİ at all...
Why?
Because unlike the Reapers GETH and EDİ was software in essence, they were alive as a software.
Legion said that to you, "our real life is in GETH CONSENSUS" our platforms are not needed for us to be alive.
So what now, even the crucible destroyed their platforms, you remember there were gazillions of Geth software in the servers right? And in the future they can easily made another platforms for their "alive" forms.
There is no fiction or imagining here, this all comes from in game.
Edi is the same, she didn't need her platform to exist, she was Normandy, remember? And Normandy survived...
Another body for her, problem solved.
Why do you think Joker was all happy even after destroy ending when he stepped out of Normandy?
Maybe he was talking to EDİ before that-even if her body was non functional- through Normandy? This may include some imaginations i admit, but it's taken from in game footage at least.
Also, Edi's last words to Shepard ( if she was with you at the end ) when she was picked up by Normandy were; "This platform is not really needed for me to stay alive, let me come with you..."
So, you grasp it now?
Edi may very well be alive as Geth may be via destroy ending.
Hints are here and there if you pay enough attention to the game and just not take what Starchild told you as god's amendments lol...
i am really amused by the tendency of people to believe and trust in Starchild and took his words as the undeniable truth. Also this tendency of seeing things through Saren's and İllusive Man's eyes instead of the WHOLE DAMN GALAXY is just hilarious i might add...
And if you still think choosing synth or control were any good, sorry but i can't help you on this one anymore.
And please, if you bother to reply just don't pick something and go all demogoging on it.
Come with facts as i did please, support them with in game data. What if's means nothing if you can't support them with something taken from the story, dialogs or from Mass Effect Trilogy as a whole.
İt's not convincing to say someone; İt doesn't mean we can't choose otherwise at the end even though those other options oppose everthing we had done in the series.
You're not making a point by saying this, we all know there are choices in the end. Who denies that you can choose other options? That's pure demogogy if i ever seen one.
The thing is that there are no several right choices, only one.
So your only argument can be made through proving Synthesize or Control were any good over destroy ending.
And by just saying; "choosing Synth or Control is good, you save the galaxy, yes?", you prove nothing...
Oh, you can only imagine Control or Synthesize being any good via fantasyzing the future. You can never back those utopic future predictions with real support from the Trilogy itself.
Guess why? Because those two control and synthesize ideas was rejected via Saren, illusive Man and via lots of other things all along Mass Effect.
Just try to find some support for them from the source itself, you will fail...
And if you are not able to find any kind of support from the source itself to back the ideas which were introduced by the source and therefore via storytelling, opposed and refused afterwards by the same source itself, then you have nothing to stand for already...
İt was given you by the source, it was proven wrong to you by the source through your journey.
And if you couldn't grasp it, it has nothing to do with your choices or beliefs, because every story has only one ending to it and every good written story tries to hide its true motives to a degree.
Because not doing so makes a good story only a propaganda.
İt is and it should be up to you to extract the truth and sense it as you experience your story.
Try it, you can't find anything against the idea of destroying the reapers from Mass Effect series but as i've evidenced to you, you can find truckloads of opposition against Synthesize and Control ideas within the source itself, source being Mass Effect Trilogy of course.
İf those can't make things clear for you, nothing will ever do. Your only source for the ending of Mass Effect is indeed Mass Effect Trilogy and not some future fantesies trying to prove Synth or control will do any good to the galaxy.
You have to make your points and prove them, support them through the narrative. Not just through some assumptions that are ONLY related to future. Doing otherwise means you're fantasizing and denying the concept of "DRİVEN STORY" which Mass Effect has it in itself.
Now maybe people can realize what "Artistic İntegrity" was about.
After all, i believe there is only one way to continue the story, and i tried to explain why i believed so. Hope this was of any help.
And if i ever offended you somehow, accept my apologies for doing so.
Have a good day.
Modifié par urazoktay, 10 avril 2013 - 06:56 .
#378
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 07:26
Hey
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I wouldn't hate it. If I heard this was the case I might get slightly stoked...
but I fully intend to move on. just leave Shep there, in the rubble, not knowing...
effing jerks..
but I fully intend to move on. just leave Shep there, in the rubble, not knowing...
effing jerks..
#379
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 07:42
TheEgoRaptor
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As Long as we get Zaeed or in the very least a monument to him on Earth sitting on a deck chair on top of Harbinger's smoking corpse with Jessie in hand, then I'll be content with a new Main Character.
#380
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 07:47
Froswald
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urazoktay can I use that as my paper because it's longer
(probably more interesting A BUNCH OF ROCKS)
(probably more interesting A BUNCH OF ROCKS)
#381
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 07:54
Fidget6
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The Shepard trilogy is over. It was wrapped up completely. That's why they call it a trilogy. Continuing to resurrect Shepard game after game would RUIN him/her. I also don't get why people insist on calling it ME4. We know nothing about the next game other than it's set in the Mass Effect universe and is not related to Shepard's story, so it's not a direct sequel to 3. Which is a GOOD thing. I don't know why people want the same thing recycled over and over.
#382
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 08:02
bk577
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Shepard is Dead Tired after having saved the galaxy, let him/her Rest In Peace!
#383
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 08:42
AlanC9
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[quote]urazoktay wrote...
Do you remember the main ideas of Mass Effect, unity through diversity... Can you see any form of diversity in Synthesize path...
Can you deny all life in the Galaxy loses their essence.[/quote]
Depends on what you mean by "essence."
The different species don't look identical post-synthesis. They all have green stuff visible, but they're still very different physically. Before Synthesis they were alike in that they were all pure organics. Post Synthesis they're all alike in that they're synthetic-organic hybrids. That's exactly the same degree of alike they ever were.
[quote]
Do you remember what Javik told you back in ME 3; " [/quote]
Nope. Didn't buy that DLC.
[quote]
Look i never fantasysize or make things out of my head, i just find the given answers from the series.[/quote]
Synth means opposing all Mass Effect stands for. Why?[/quote]
I'm not a huge Synth fan myself, so I should probably leave this to someone else. But people who do like Synthesis don't believe that it means what you say it means.
[quote]
Look, i know it's not easy to get it, but what's the point of being alive if a Krogan is not a Krogan anymore. A krogan and a Salarian thinks, feels and acts the same with Synth ending...
They were all brainswashed, forced to gain Reaper perspective, how come can you say this is any good.
Would you like someone to take away your individualism from you? A husk and a Turian feels the same way about anythink, do you really think this is normal?
[/quote]
You say you're not making stuff up, but there's no evidence for any of these assertions. Unless you've got a very, very loose definition of "Reaper perspective" there.
[quote]
Why people give what Starchild had to say to us too much credit is beyond me... How come one can't see he is no Starchild or else, he was Harbinger just trying to trick you. İt was hinted to you on Rannoch by the Reaper you just destroyed. " Finish your war, we will be there in the end." Can't you really figure this out.
Believe me im not building things in my mind, it is so obvious.
You came all the way to believe what this so called starchild had to say to you? Really?[/quote]
Yep. He's telling the truth all the way, as he sees it. He's wrong about some stuff, of course.
[quote]
How come one can decide to turn all life in the Galaxy some kind a hive mind. [/quote]
Once again, there's no evidence of a hive mind.
[quote]
İt makes no sense to reject Saren and then accept his logic in the end storywise, from a narrative point of view.[/quote]
Actually, I can think of quite a few books where the hero finds out that someone he thought was the villain turned out to be right all along. Less common in video games, of course.
[quote]
Think of it, would you really want those green eyes and synthetic DNA structure in you?[/quote]
Depends. Would I have new capabilities? I didn't mind the look, so if it's useful I'd be OK with it.
[quote]
Can't you see the difference how EDİ talks and thinks before Synth and after Synth.[/quote]
She's different, yep. She thinks it's an upgrade, and so do I.
[quote]
Why do you think Starchild tried to make you believe HE is letting you to choose, and couldn't stop you from destroying them?[/quote]
Huh? Sounds like you're saying the Catalyst could control things -- but he's so hot for Synthesis that he'll run the risk of Shepard picking Destroy. That's so insane that I must be misreading you.
[quote]
To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact.[/quote]
What do you mean by that? There was a choice in the game I played. What wasn't "real" about it?
[quote]
There is only one way to end a war, victory or defeat.[/quote]
Nonsense. Many wars end in partial victory, stalemate, an armistice, an inconclusive ceasefire, a compromise peace treaty ..... total victory for one side is relatively rare.
[quote]
With lies... Crucible was calibrated for Reapers, why believe it would kill Synths also? Even if it was to destroy Synthetics, it would never ever kill GETH and EDİ at all...[/quote]
I thought you said you didn't make stuff up?
[quote]
Edi is the same, she didn't need her platform to exist, she was Normandy, remember? And Normandy survived...
Another body for her, problem solved.[/quote]
Ever look at the memorial wall? In Destroy, she's dead. In Control and Synthesis she's not. Even if you get her body killed in low EMS Control, she's still alive.
She can live without her platform, but she can't live through Destroy.
As for the geth, they show in slides unless you pick Destroy.
[quote]
Hints are here and there if you pay enough attention to the game and just not take what Starchild told you as god's amendments lol...[/quote]
So far what I've seen is that you don't like the ending you actually got and you'll go to almost any lengths to interpret it into something you like better. You might as well go all the way to IT.
[quote]
And if you still think choosing synth or control were any good, sorry but i can't help you on this one anymore.
[/quote]
You didn't actually try to make much of a case against Control.
[quote]
You're not making a point by saying this, we all know there are choices in the end. Who denies that you can choose other options? That's pure demogogy as i ever seen one. [/quote]
Dude, you just said "To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact." But when you say "you never had a choice" you don't actually mean "you never had a choice," huh?
Is it demagogy to take your words to mean what they actually say?
[quote]
And if you couldn't grasp it, it has nothing to do with your choices or beliefs, because every story has only one ending to it [/quote]
Why shouldn't an RPG have multiple endings? A book can't do that but an RPG can. Are you really saying that an RPG shouldn't take advantage of this capability?
Note that Bio's writers have always been quite clear that they did not have any artistic vision of a particular "best" ending. They never considered one and didn't make one.
[quote]
İf those can't make it clear things for you, nothing will ever do. Your only source for the ending of Mass Effect is indeed Mass Effect Trilogy and not some future fantesies trying to prove Synth or control will do any good to the galaxy. [/quote]
Thing is, we see that Control and Synthesis turn out fine. Unlike your fantasies of a hive mind, that's actually shown in the game.
[quote]
You're just doing literally the same thing by asking Bioware to explain the endings.[/quote]
Who's doing that? I haven't asked Bio for anything.
Do you remember the main ideas of Mass Effect, unity through diversity... Can you see any form of diversity in Synthesize path...
Can you deny all life in the Galaxy loses their essence.[/quote]
Depends on what you mean by "essence."
The different species don't look identical post-synthesis. They all have green stuff visible, but they're still very different physically. Before Synthesis they were alike in that they were all pure organics. Post Synthesis they're all alike in that they're synthetic-organic hybrids. That's exactly the same degree of alike they ever were.
[quote]
Do you remember what Javik told you back in ME 3; " [/quote]
Nope. Didn't buy that DLC.
[quote]
Look i never fantasysize or make things out of my head, i just find the given answers from the series.[/quote]
Synth means opposing all Mass Effect stands for. Why?[/quote]
I'm not a huge Synth fan myself, so I should probably leave this to someone else. But people who do like Synthesis don't believe that it means what you say it means.
[quote]
Look, i know it's not easy to get it, but what's the point of being alive if a Krogan is not a Krogan anymore. A krogan and a Salarian thinks, feels and acts the same with Synth ending...
They were all brainswashed, forced to gain Reaper perspective, how come can you say this is any good.
Would you like someone to take away your individualism from you? A husk and a Turian feels the same way about anythink, do you really think this is normal?
[/quote]
You say you're not making stuff up, but there's no evidence for any of these assertions. Unless you've got a very, very loose definition of "Reaper perspective" there.
[quote]
Why people give what Starchild had to say to us too much credit is beyond me... How come one can't see he is no Starchild or else, he was Harbinger just trying to trick you. İt was hinted to you on Rannoch by the Reaper you just destroyed. " Finish your war, we will be there in the end." Can't you really figure this out.
Believe me im not building things in my mind, it is so obvious.
You came all the way to believe what this so called starchild had to say to you? Really?[/quote]
Yep. He's telling the truth all the way, as he sees it. He's wrong about some stuff, of course.
[quote]
How come one can decide to turn all life in the Galaxy some kind a hive mind. [/quote]
Once again, there's no evidence of a hive mind.
[quote]
İt makes no sense to reject Saren and then accept his logic in the end storywise, from a narrative point of view.[/quote]
Actually, I can think of quite a few books where the hero finds out that someone he thought was the villain turned out to be right all along. Less common in video games, of course.
[quote]
Think of it, would you really want those green eyes and synthetic DNA structure in you?[/quote]
Depends. Would I have new capabilities? I didn't mind the look, so if it's useful I'd be OK with it.
[quote]
Can't you see the difference how EDİ talks and thinks before Synth and after Synth.[/quote]
She's different, yep. She thinks it's an upgrade, and so do I.
[quote]
Why do you think Starchild tried to make you believe HE is letting you to choose, and couldn't stop you from destroying them?[/quote]
Huh? Sounds like you're saying the Catalyst could control things -- but he's so hot for Synthesis that he'll run the risk of Shepard picking Destroy. That's so insane that I must be misreading you.
[quote]
To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact.[/quote]
What do you mean by that? There was a choice in the game I played. What wasn't "real" about it?
[quote]
There is only one way to end a war, victory or defeat.[/quote]
Nonsense. Many wars end in partial victory, stalemate, an armistice, an inconclusive ceasefire, a compromise peace treaty ..... total victory for one side is relatively rare.
[quote]
With lies... Crucible was calibrated for Reapers, why believe it would kill Synths also? Even if it was to destroy Synthetics, it would never ever kill GETH and EDİ at all...[/quote]
I thought you said you didn't make stuff up?
[quote]
Edi is the same, she didn't need her platform to exist, she was Normandy, remember? And Normandy survived...
Another body for her, problem solved.[/quote]
Ever look at the memorial wall? In Destroy, she's dead. In Control and Synthesis she's not. Even if you get her body killed in low EMS Control, she's still alive.
She can live without her platform, but she can't live through Destroy.
As for the geth, they show in slides unless you pick Destroy.
[quote]
Hints are here and there if you pay enough attention to the game and just not take what Starchild told you as god's amendments lol...[/quote]
So far what I've seen is that you don't like the ending you actually got and you'll go to almost any lengths to interpret it into something you like better. You might as well go all the way to IT.
[quote]
And if you still think choosing synth or control were any good, sorry but i can't help you on this one anymore.
[/quote]
You didn't actually try to make much of a case against Control.
[quote]
You're not making a point by saying this, we all know there are choices in the end. Who denies that you can choose other options? That's pure demogogy as i ever seen one. [/quote]
Dude, you just said "To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact." But when you say "you never had a choice" you don't actually mean "you never had a choice," huh?
Is it demagogy to take your words to mean what they actually say?
[quote]
And if you couldn't grasp it, it has nothing to do with your choices or beliefs, because every story has only one ending to it [/quote]
Why shouldn't an RPG have multiple endings? A book can't do that but an RPG can. Are you really saying that an RPG shouldn't take advantage of this capability?
Note that Bio's writers have always been quite clear that they did not have any artistic vision of a particular "best" ending. They never considered one and didn't make one.
[quote]
İf those can't make it clear things for you, nothing will ever do. Your only source for the ending of Mass Effect is indeed Mass Effect Trilogy and not some future fantesies trying to prove Synth or control will do any good to the galaxy. [/quote]
Thing is, we see that Control and Synthesis turn out fine. Unlike your fantasies of a hive mind, that's actually shown in the game.
[quote]
You're just doing literally the same thing by asking Bioware to explain the endings.[/quote]
Who's doing that? I haven't asked Bio for anything.
Modifié par AlanC9, 04 avril 2013 - 08:55 .
#385
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 08:56
_- Songlian -
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- Members
- 551 messages
anorling wrote...
Shep's dead, baby; Shep's dead
We have dismissed that claim.
#386
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 09:55
JedTed
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- Members
- 1 109 messages
Adamantium93 wrote...
I don't care about Shepard coming back to be honest. Too many game mascots keep making the rounds more times than they should.
Bioware makes great characters, they should be able to make others we care about.
This. The Mass Effect franchise doesn't need a mascot to sell games. Just a good, emotional story and interesting characters(both of which Bioware's writers are still exceptional at).
And maybe I'm the only one, but I liked Hawke.
So did I. DA2's story was OKAY but it wasn't the lack of The Warden that brought it down.
#387
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 11:04
KoorahUK
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- Members
- 1 122 messages
Urazoktay, I'm going to assume English isn't your first language so grats at being multi-lingual but maybe something is getting lost in translation. If so, apologies.AlanC9 wrote...
<Stuff in response to>urazoktay wrote...
<Stuff>
AlanC9 pretty much nails it.
Firstly, what you are describing in Synthesis sounds more like Star Trek Borg Assimilation. Thats not what Synthesis is about at all; sorry dude you've misunderstood the whole process. Sythesis blends sythetic code into organic dna through some ... process
*cough* space magic *cough*.
A Krogan is still a Krogan. An Asari is still an Asari. They just have synthetic enhancements that "grant an understanding" of synthetic kind, and vice versa. The argument against Synthesis has never been "you turn everyone into a hivemind reaper slave species man" its "Who give you the right to permanatly change my dna?"
Secondly, and I see this a lot on BSN, you raise the issue of the Starchild being a manipulating liar.
I don't get this argument.
"Star Kid cannot be trusted, Destroy is the only way to be sure" so how do you know shooting the tube will destroy the Reapers at all? He tells you it will but ... he can't be trusted, so erm ?
"Star Kid cannot be trusted, he's trying to get you to choose Control or Synthesis" so why tell you about Destroy at all? You don't know what the Crucible does so why would he even give you the option?
Frankly I can;t see how anyone who uses this argument and chooses any other ending than Deny can be taken seriously. Its fine to hate Control or Synthesis but if you choose any of the R/G/B endings you have to accept what the Catalyst is saying at face value. Otherwise you are meta gaming.
Anyway, OP was about Sephard coming abck in ME4 not YET ANOTHER "my ending is better than your ending" thread, so I'll leave it there, but no We (i) don't want Shepard back in ME4.
#388
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 10:53
urazoktay
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- Members
- 25 messages
@AlanC9
First of all i modified my text, some parts are not there anymore and some parts been modified.
İ see there are lots of misunderstandings between us.
You're just demogoging like i guessed you would.
You're trying to turn my own ideas against me, let me show you an example of this.
İ said "you had your choices" and then "you had no choice at the end".
İnstead of trying to understand what i meant by saying that, you simply try to make fun of it. Cycling around my sentences and striking to me with no real arguments but only trying to prove how i opposed myself.
You had no choice never meant you literally had no choice. İt is a metaphor for saying what ever you choose in the end other than destroy was your own undoing, so you had really no choice other than destroyingg the reapers.
İ made my self pretty clear about this. You had no choice in the ending yes, why? Because having two wrong paths and only one right path to take MEANS you had no choice but one.
Just don't do that again please.
İ simply erased some intentionally PİCKED sentences that i felt i was wrong ( my words on war only has two endings, i thought that was wrong then erased it )
Yes, there are more ways than two to end a war.
But not in this situation with the reapers. Control and Synth only ends the war in wrong ways.
Essence has nothing to do with physical appearence. Why do you always dodge my points even if you understood them?
Why didn't you say anything about " unity through diversity" i made tons of connections to this sentence and gave you lots of in game diolog related information on this one...
....You say you're not making stuff up, but there's no evidence for any of these assertions. Unless you've got a very, very loose definition of "Reaper perspective" there.... This is what you said, İ have already GİVEN you lots of evidence taken from the game itself, you simply ignored them, never mentioned anything about them and then you simply say that " i have no evidence"?
So how can you say that i have no evidence just by ignoring all those in game taken evidences.
Didn't you read what i told you about GETH, EDİ, JAVİK, LEGİON, REAPER ON HANNOCH, HARBİNGER ( CATALYST İS CİTADEL, not STARCHİLD, STARCHİLD = HARBİNGER )
....Huh? Sounds like you're saying the Catalyst could control things -- but he's so hot for Synthesis that he'll run the risk of Shepard picking Destroy. That's so insane that I must be misreading you....
Yes, you're absolutely misreading me... İ always said Starchild WAS desperate, he tried to manipulate you.
What you got wrong was this: İ tried to say that STARCHİLD tried to seem confident, he was HOPELESS indeed but if you happen to listen to his ideas and become open to them then he says WE HAD MORE HOPE than we imagined...
This is called manipulation. Somehow, Shepard feels desperate at the end of their conversation ( if you let him talk, if you ask him questions and replied with a confused attitude ) instead of Starchild ( Harbinger )
Of course we had hope, we went there to kill the reapers and we were on the brink of doing this. Only Reapers were desperate at this moment. They were desperate about their survival.
Maybe i just couldn't explain myself the way i meant to due to english being my second language.
İ just said the same what you said back there. İ just made a point of Starchild's desperation by saying HOW he was trying to seem confident about the destroy option. He was nearly like he was the one TO COME UP with the option of destroy ending. And via progressing the conversation he confuses your mind and drags you away from choosing "destroy" ending.
He was like, " yeah those our your options, i prefer you to take Synth path, i indeed advise you to take this path, or if not, take the control path but umm Destroy is not really a good idea you know?"
Through those dialogs Shepared seemed to forget what he was there for in the first place, he got confused.
That was Starchild's ( Harbinger) doing in fact.
Just try to realize he was lying to you by saying he was the catalyst. He was Harbinger indeed, Catalyst was Citadel. You knew that before but he confused your mind on that matter. Try to remember those moments...
İt was hinted ( i don't know how many times i've mentioned this before but you just are just dodgin this ) to you on Rannoch by the Reaper Destroyer...
"Finish your little war, we will be there for you in the end..." That's more than enough proof for so called Catalyst Starchild was Harbinger instead...
And as i said several times before, Harbinger indeed wanted you to take the Synth path.
Do you really believe, by me saying CRUCİBLE was calibrated for Reapers is making stuff in my mind.
Replay the last game, read every codex, gain every crucible war assets and read their codex's and then we will talk.
You said you don't have JAVİK dlc, so you missed tons of hints and clues then...
...Why shouldn't an RPG have multiple endings? A book can't do that but an RPG can. Are you really saying that an RPG shouldn't take advantage of this capability?...
Mass Effect is more than just an RPG game. İt has a narrative, a story unlike any RPG had. The way story being told was nothing like any other RPG's.
Mass Effect is closer to art, literature, a novel then an RGP game. This "artistic integrity" thing tells you something about how Mass Effect was always considered more than a classic RPG game.
Just try to grasp how story progressed. İ wrote lots of things on this matter on my posts, you don't seem to get any of them at all.
An RPG having multiple endings doesn't mean it hasn't got a canon ending to it.
You are just thinking via gamer perspective ( yet you deny everything i evidenced to you via in game dialogs or given hints, clues leads ). İt takes more than that to really understand what i tried to tell you.
Just re read my post.
You're not convincing with anything you opposed.
You really proved nothing, in fact you never really opposed anything at all. There are none valid points made by you against those intentionally PİCKED sentences.
You dodged most of my ideas, you seem to agree on some of them, you misunderstood some of them, you commented on some parts that i already erased ( like: there is only two ways to end a war ) and you made some non valid points on some of them...
...Thing is, we see that Control and Synthesis turn out fine. Unlike your fantasies of a hive mind, that's actually shown in the game....
İ ve proven you otherwise in numerous ways... How come you see Control ending turned out fine with these evidences given to you is beyond my understanding really.
Synthesize, my fantasies, really?
So, you really do BELİEVE all life preserved their DİVERSİTY via Synthesize ending after all those evidences.
Those evidences were given in my posts, they were all over the Mass Effect series, in codex's, in dialogs, and even if you didn't realized them whilst playing the game, i showed them to you.
But you persistantly dodging them, ignoring them and your only arguments is this; They turned out to be fine!
Just tell me this one thing. DO YOU REALLY BELİEVE ALL LİFE İN THE GALAXY PRESERVED THEİR İNDİVİDUALİSM, DİVERSİTY, FREE WİLL, DİFFERENT ASPECTS ON MATTERS, with Synthesize ending?
Do you remember what Mass Effect stood for right from the beginning, or did you ever realized it at all?
UNİTY THROUGH DİVERSİTY. Synthesize opposes all these ideas Mass Effect supported all along the way.
İ am gonna make it simple for you, in an ideological perspective; Synthesize and Control has their perspectives via monarchy, faschism and communism, no REAL liberty there, no diversity, in control you have a monarch and his police state over you to limit your liberty.
Destroy ending represents democracy. UNİTY through diversity only comes with democracy, real freedom only comes with Destroy ending.
There is no real liberty and races in the galaxy has no full control on chosing their own paths in Control ending. There is a monarch, maybe a dictator watching over them, controlling them.
İn order to be independent you should have the right to decide what to do. This is non existant in Control or Synth.
And Galaxy loses this when you oppose their resolve and choose control or synth. You decide against their will, you chose for all of them, ( which you had no right to do so, it was morally wrong to do so ) becoming a tyrant in control ending.
You decide to ALTER the essence, the DNA of an entire Galaxy, making them lose their perspectives, and yet you say it was good doing so...
Not a single being in the Galaxy would agree with your control or synth choice if asked about their opinions on them.
Yet you make the choice -which they would never accept- for them all by yourselves, you just don't have the right to do so, it is against all morals. All life in the Galaxy was expecting you to destroy the reapers, you just betray the whole Galaxy by choosing control or destroy.
Synth is just a nightmare for the life in the Galaxy, you made some weak points by saying Reaper upgrades were good...
All life becomes united like some kind of a hive mind, and no, it is crystal clear, it has nothing to do with fantasizing.
Mass Effect's main idea : UNİTY THROUGH DİVERSİTY, there is no diversity other than physical appearances in the SYNTH ending.
And if you really believe the phrase " unity through diversity" was all about physical appearences, then i say you have no idea about Mass Effect.
Some kind of unnatural unity exist in Synth ending yes. But the main idea was always preserving diversity while uniting the galaxy.
So, Synth has only unity and NO DİVERSİTY at all. İt was against everything Mass Effect stood for.
İ won't reply anymore, i made myself pretty clear, i replied every single opposition from you, unlike you did. İ made valid points, i based them from the game, referenced them from the game via diologs, codex's.
...Dude, you just said "To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact." But when you say "you never had a choice" you don't actually mean "you never had a choice," huh?...
İ continued this sentence for god's sake, i meant that even if you were given those options, you only had one right choice, not three of them. That's why i said you had no choice. Having only one good choice means you had no choice but one in a way.
İt is like saying even if you had three choices you just had one GOOD choice. So you only had one choice in reality. The only choice was to destroy the Reapers. Those other choices WERE İLLUSİONS of fake SOLUTİONS.
You get what i meant?
YOU HAD ONLY ONE CHOİCE= YOU HAD ONLY ONE REAL SOLUTİON. Other options were no good at all and they were illusions, ruses, decoys, been put there for you to trick you.
There is no self opposing there in fact, no broken logic in my words, i just couldn't express it right, that's all.
And also i used that " it was never about free choice " i only said it for some certain things, like not beeing able to side with Saren or İM each time you met them, i said it only for this and for REAPER plot. You misunderstood me, maybe i couldn't make myself clear to you.
Stop doing this already, just come with some proof TAKEN FROM THE GAME like i did instead of trying to find some logical ( grammatical mistakes in fact, and you know that and use that, it's not a good way to prove someone wrong ) mistakes, stop trying to circle around my sentences and show some facts.
Come with facts.
Oh you came with one already i admit that. Edi was on that wall, yes.
You're wrong about your impression on me not liking the ending that i got. İ absolutely got the high ems DESTROY ending, it was so easy to do it, to choose the right path for me. Later i tried other endings out of curiosity...
Do you really think i am telling all these just because i wasn't able to pull a high ems Destroy ending in the first place?
That was really funny of you. So you believe that i was so confused and ashamed of myself for picking the wrong ending for my taste, therefore i was thinking that i was tricked to choose control or synth afterwards, and then replaying it and getting the high ems destroy ending and got all enraged about other endings just for this reason?
This is even beyond demogoging, this is pure nonsense. And by saying such crap things you're just trying to stay out of topic.
İ can see that you have no facts to back up at all, so you've chosen the old ugly path of trying to smartass people rather than proving them wrong with facts.
İ advise you to play the game right from the beginning in a row with all dlc's. Read every codex, pay attention to every detail, talk to everyone on a regular basis.
Or, simply forget the rest, i only want you to answer this, DOES SYNTHESİZE SUPPORT UNİTY THROUGH DİVERSİTY...
End of discussion.
First of all i modified my text, some parts are not there anymore and some parts been modified.
İ see there are lots of misunderstandings between us.
You're just demogoging like i guessed you would.
You're trying to turn my own ideas against me, let me show you an example of this.
İ said "you had your choices" and then "you had no choice at the end".
İnstead of trying to understand what i meant by saying that, you simply try to make fun of it. Cycling around my sentences and striking to me with no real arguments but only trying to prove how i opposed myself.
You had no choice never meant you literally had no choice. İt is a metaphor for saying what ever you choose in the end other than destroy was your own undoing, so you had really no choice other than destroyingg the reapers.
İ made my self pretty clear about this. You had no choice in the ending yes, why? Because having two wrong paths and only one right path to take MEANS you had no choice but one.
Just don't do that again please.
İ simply erased some intentionally PİCKED sentences that i felt i was wrong ( my words on war only has two endings, i thought that was wrong then erased it )
Yes, there are more ways than two to end a war.
But not in this situation with the reapers. Control and Synth only ends the war in wrong ways.
Essence has nothing to do with physical appearence. Why do you always dodge my points even if you understood them?
Why didn't you say anything about " unity through diversity" i made tons of connections to this sentence and gave you lots of in game diolog related information on this one...
....You say you're not making stuff up, but there's no evidence for any of these assertions. Unless you've got a very, very loose definition of "Reaper perspective" there.... This is what you said, İ have already GİVEN you lots of evidence taken from the game itself, you simply ignored them, never mentioned anything about them and then you simply say that " i have no evidence"?
So how can you say that i have no evidence just by ignoring all those in game taken evidences.
Didn't you read what i told you about GETH, EDİ, JAVİK, LEGİON, REAPER ON HANNOCH, HARBİNGER ( CATALYST İS CİTADEL, not STARCHİLD, STARCHİLD = HARBİNGER )
....Huh? Sounds like you're saying the Catalyst could control things -- but he's so hot for Synthesis that he'll run the risk of Shepard picking Destroy. That's so insane that I must be misreading you....
Yes, you're absolutely misreading me... İ always said Starchild WAS desperate, he tried to manipulate you.
What you got wrong was this: İ tried to say that STARCHİLD tried to seem confident, he was HOPELESS indeed but if you happen to listen to his ideas and become open to them then he says WE HAD MORE HOPE than we imagined...
This is called manipulation. Somehow, Shepard feels desperate at the end of their conversation ( if you let him talk, if you ask him questions and replied with a confused attitude ) instead of Starchild ( Harbinger )
Of course we had hope, we went there to kill the reapers and we were on the brink of doing this. Only Reapers were desperate at this moment. They were desperate about their survival.
Maybe i just couldn't explain myself the way i meant to due to english being my second language.
İ just said the same what you said back there. İ just made a point of Starchild's desperation by saying HOW he was trying to seem confident about the destroy option. He was nearly like he was the one TO COME UP with the option of destroy ending. And via progressing the conversation he confuses your mind and drags you away from choosing "destroy" ending.
He was like, " yeah those our your options, i prefer you to take Synth path, i indeed advise you to take this path, or if not, take the control path but umm Destroy is not really a good idea you know?"
Through those dialogs Shepared seemed to forget what he was there for in the first place, he got confused.
That was Starchild's ( Harbinger) doing in fact.
Just try to realize he was lying to you by saying he was the catalyst. He was Harbinger indeed, Catalyst was Citadel. You knew that before but he confused your mind on that matter. Try to remember those moments...
İt was hinted ( i don't know how many times i've mentioned this before but you just are just dodgin this ) to you on Rannoch by the Reaper Destroyer...
"Finish your little war, we will be there for you in the end..." That's more than enough proof for so called Catalyst Starchild was Harbinger instead...
And as i said several times before, Harbinger indeed wanted you to take the Synth path.
Do you really believe, by me saying CRUCİBLE was calibrated for Reapers is making stuff in my mind.
Replay the last game, read every codex, gain every crucible war assets and read their codex's and then we will talk.
You said you don't have JAVİK dlc, so you missed tons of hints and clues then...
...Why shouldn't an RPG have multiple endings? A book can't do that but an RPG can. Are you really saying that an RPG shouldn't take advantage of this capability?...
Mass Effect is more than just an RPG game. İt has a narrative, a story unlike any RPG had. The way story being told was nothing like any other RPG's.
Mass Effect is closer to art, literature, a novel then an RGP game. This "artistic integrity" thing tells you something about how Mass Effect was always considered more than a classic RPG game.
Just try to grasp how story progressed. İ wrote lots of things on this matter on my posts, you don't seem to get any of them at all.
An RPG having multiple endings doesn't mean it hasn't got a canon ending to it.
You are just thinking via gamer perspective ( yet you deny everything i evidenced to you via in game dialogs or given hints, clues leads ). İt takes more than that to really understand what i tried to tell you.
Just re read my post.
You're not convincing with anything you opposed.
You really proved nothing, in fact you never really opposed anything at all. There are none valid points made by you against those intentionally PİCKED sentences.
You dodged most of my ideas, you seem to agree on some of them, you misunderstood some of them, you commented on some parts that i already erased ( like: there is only two ways to end a war ) and you made some non valid points on some of them...
...Thing is, we see that Control and Synthesis turn out fine. Unlike your fantasies of a hive mind, that's actually shown in the game....
İ ve proven you otherwise in numerous ways... How come you see Control ending turned out fine with these evidences given to you is beyond my understanding really.
Synthesize, my fantasies, really?
So, you really do BELİEVE all life preserved their DİVERSİTY via Synthesize ending after all those evidences.
Those evidences were given in my posts, they were all over the Mass Effect series, in codex's, in dialogs, and even if you didn't realized them whilst playing the game, i showed them to you.
But you persistantly dodging them, ignoring them and your only arguments is this; They turned out to be fine!
Just tell me this one thing. DO YOU REALLY BELİEVE ALL LİFE İN THE GALAXY PRESERVED THEİR İNDİVİDUALİSM, DİVERSİTY, FREE WİLL, DİFFERENT ASPECTS ON MATTERS, with Synthesize ending?
Do you remember what Mass Effect stood for right from the beginning, or did you ever realized it at all?
UNİTY THROUGH DİVERSİTY. Synthesize opposes all these ideas Mass Effect supported all along the way.
İ am gonna make it simple for you, in an ideological perspective; Synthesize and Control has their perspectives via monarchy, faschism and communism, no REAL liberty there, no diversity, in control you have a monarch and his police state over you to limit your liberty.
Destroy ending represents democracy. UNİTY through diversity only comes with democracy, real freedom only comes with Destroy ending.
There is no real liberty and races in the galaxy has no full control on chosing their own paths in Control ending. There is a monarch, maybe a dictator watching over them, controlling them.
İn order to be independent you should have the right to decide what to do. This is non existant in Control or Synth.
And Galaxy loses this when you oppose their resolve and choose control or synth. You decide against their will, you chose for all of them, ( which you had no right to do so, it was morally wrong to do so ) becoming a tyrant in control ending.
You decide to ALTER the essence, the DNA of an entire Galaxy, making them lose their perspectives, and yet you say it was good doing so...
Not a single being in the Galaxy would agree with your control or synth choice if asked about their opinions on them.
Yet you make the choice -which they would never accept- for them all by yourselves, you just don't have the right to do so, it is against all morals. All life in the Galaxy was expecting you to destroy the reapers, you just betray the whole Galaxy by choosing control or destroy.
Synth is just a nightmare for the life in the Galaxy, you made some weak points by saying Reaper upgrades were good...
All life becomes united like some kind of a hive mind, and no, it is crystal clear, it has nothing to do with fantasizing.
Mass Effect's main idea : UNİTY THROUGH DİVERSİTY, there is no diversity other than physical appearances in the SYNTH ending.
And if you really believe the phrase " unity through diversity" was all about physical appearences, then i say you have no idea about Mass Effect.
Some kind of unnatural unity exist in Synth ending yes. But the main idea was always preserving diversity while uniting the galaxy.
So, Synth has only unity and NO DİVERSİTY at all. İt was against everything Mass Effect stood for.
İ won't reply anymore, i made myself pretty clear, i replied every single opposition from you, unlike you did. İ made valid points, i based them from the game, referenced them from the game via diologs, codex's.
...Dude, you just said "To be given those options was always part of the story, it was never about free choice, you never had a choice in fact." But when you say "you never had a choice" you don't actually mean "you never had a choice," huh?...
İ continued this sentence for god's sake, i meant that even if you were given those options, you only had one right choice, not three of them. That's why i said you had no choice. Having only one good choice means you had no choice but one in a way.
İt is like saying even if you had three choices you just had one GOOD choice. So you only had one choice in reality. The only choice was to destroy the Reapers. Those other choices WERE İLLUSİONS of fake SOLUTİONS.
You get what i meant?
YOU HAD ONLY ONE CHOİCE= YOU HAD ONLY ONE REAL SOLUTİON. Other options were no good at all and they were illusions, ruses, decoys, been put there for you to trick you.
There is no self opposing there in fact, no broken logic in my words, i just couldn't express it right, that's all.
And also i used that " it was never about free choice " i only said it for some certain things, like not beeing able to side with Saren or İM each time you met them, i said it only for this and for REAPER plot. You misunderstood me, maybe i couldn't make myself clear to you.
Stop doing this already, just come with some proof TAKEN FROM THE GAME like i did instead of trying to find some logical ( grammatical mistakes in fact, and you know that and use that, it's not a good way to prove someone wrong ) mistakes, stop trying to circle around my sentences and show some facts.
Come with facts.
Oh you came with one already i admit that. Edi was on that wall, yes.
You're wrong about your impression on me not liking the ending that i got. İ absolutely got the high ems DESTROY ending, it was so easy to do it, to choose the right path for me. Later i tried other endings out of curiosity...
Do you really think i am telling all these just because i wasn't able to pull a high ems Destroy ending in the first place?
That was really funny of you. So you believe that i was so confused and ashamed of myself for picking the wrong ending for my taste, therefore i was thinking that i was tricked to choose control or synth afterwards, and then replaying it and getting the high ems destroy ending and got all enraged about other endings just for this reason?
This is even beyond demogoging, this is pure nonsense. And by saying such crap things you're just trying to stay out of topic.
İ can see that you have no facts to back up at all, so you've chosen the old ugly path of trying to smartass people rather than proving them wrong with facts.
İ advise you to play the game right from the beginning in a row with all dlc's. Read every codex, pay attention to every detail, talk to everyone on a regular basis.
Or, simply forget the rest, i only want you to answer this, DOES SYNTHESİZE SUPPORT UNİTY THROUGH DİVERSİTY...
End of discussion.
Modifié par urazoktay, 05 avril 2013 - 12:12 .
#389
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 11:18
ziyon conqueror
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If any of you pro-Shepards want the Commander back, sign a petition (maybe change.org) and follow BringBackFemShep (and maybe others) on Twitter.
#390
Posté 04 avril 2013 - 11:33
urazoktay
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@AlanC9
...And i got the impression that you have no idea what Mass Effect was all about.
And tbh i never thought İT makes any sense. i oppose it as i oppose synth, control and refusal endings.
Unlike me, you're blind to hints, clues, leads, given all over the series. You have no facts to prove my points wrong and rather than trying to do so, you just did some demogogy. All you did was trying to cycle around my sentences desperately to find a loop hole.
The fact that you never mentioned anything about those in-game informations, dialogs i've shown to you, the fact that you couldn't oppose them and instead ignoring and dodging them, tells me about your limits on grasping Mass Effect as a whole.
Oh and if you didn't realize it already, i've made hell of a case against Control as well.
Really don't bother replying, i'm done trying to put some perspective into someone...
...And i got the impression that you have no idea what Mass Effect was all about.
And tbh i never thought İT makes any sense. i oppose it as i oppose synth, control and refusal endings.
Unlike me, you're blind to hints, clues, leads, given all over the series. You have no facts to prove my points wrong and rather than trying to do so, you just did some demogogy. All you did was trying to cycle around my sentences desperately to find a loop hole.
The fact that you never mentioned anything about those in-game informations, dialogs i've shown to you, the fact that you couldn't oppose them and instead ignoring and dodging them, tells me about your limits on grasping Mass Effect as a whole.
Oh and if you didn't realize it already, i've made hell of a case against Control as well.
Really don't bother replying, i'm done trying to put some perspective into someone...
Modifié par urazoktay, 04 avril 2013 - 11:44 .
#391
Posté 05 avril 2013 - 11:05
Peranor
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ziyon conqueror wrote...
If any of you pro-Shepards want the Commander back, sign a petition (maybe change.org) and follow BringBackFemShep (and maybe others) on Twitter.
If you want Bioware to bring Shepard back for The-Next-Mass-Effect-Game-Which-Shold-Not-Be-Referred-to-As-Mass-Effect-4 you should start a petition asking for the opposite.
Reverse psychology is the only thing that works
#392
Posté 06 avril 2013 - 01:26
Zarcoff
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DarkSpider88 wrote...
No Shepard no Mass Effect for me. I tried it with no Warden in DA2, didn't work then doesn't work now.
Well, there's this...
