57 réponses à ce sujet

[Autochthon]

AizakkuFurosto wrote...

Mandolin wrote...

I just dont see the point of tech armour if you want to cast as your main playstyle. Why cripple your cooldowns for a slight power buff and if I"m not mistaken the power buff doesn't add to your detonation damage anyway. I like the sentinel but tech armor is useless to me. As soon as i get a respec card I'll be taking that point out of tech armour so I can max my other 4 abilities. Good information about the combos though.

•It doesn't affect me at all.

•That 25% actually adds up in the times it has saved by a hair.

•I can play a more aggresive CQC style combat with roll dance, SMG's which are better at mid range and Biotic Combos to clean up. I only need to use cover when my shields go down. Otherwise I play a pretty much tactical in your face aggresive which I cannot due with my Adepts.

At best you're talking a 33% DPS loss from detonation combos.

There is NO REASON to ever use tech armor at all given that the game is won by DPS and properly using cover renders the DR meaningless. You could theoeitally go full tank on an HSentinel but it would never stack up to a KSentinel and you don't even have the lack of a roll that makes Tech Armor actually useful to a TSentinel.

Long story short: Tech armor isn't actually worth it unless you are actively using it as an offensive ability and even then you're still taking a pretty large DPS hit.

[Sussurus]

I've considered that play.
Though leaving warp off, the cooldown of tech armour is a tad off putting as well.
Though running with an Adept with throw has made me love that power.

Thinking however that an Asari caster is just prone to getting exposed.
A glass cannon but everyone forgets the glass and expects the cannon.

So a force throw tank with no need to run for ammo, mixed with a caster that has less worry of shields getting knocked off one hit.. or worse, is appealing.

[AizakkuFurosto]

DrekorSilverfang wrote...

Tried tech armor... I find it to be nothing short of awful. For a caster playstyle it's completely counter-productive. For an aggressive CQC style it's ok but you could do more damage and be more survivable by just playing a vanguard, it's basically the exact same style just with ability specifically tuned to the CQC aggression playstyle.

I agree that Trch Armo, compared to the ME2 version was nerfed. But I don't play a caster style. A play a hybrid style. I am in no manner or form the best Sentinel out there as I still have room to improve. But very few people can successfully run a Human Sentinel with TA and play Gold.

First off I ran some tests and the cooldown at Rank 6 with the -30%, becoming 50% and running two guns which had me at 187% rather than 200%, I had a Warp time of an average of 3.4 whereas with an Adept at 200% a Warp in average of about 2.7. True the 0.7 can mean a lot. But so does the 25% damage reduction which has helped me survive. I can't play an Adept the way I can play my Sentinel. And as the picture shows even running Assist I got 50 Biotic Kills, 50 Kills along with my 50 Assists; a hardcore player will probably do better with my build. But it works and since TA now does damage like a normal Soldier grenade, detonation can actually be useful, as long as you are smart with it. Everyone who says TA is "horrible" is wrong... And yet they are also right. There are a lot of things I would fix. However TA can be worked around specifically by using one pretty solid weapon and at a high rank where the weapon becomes lighter. Without the penalty and usually keeping 150%+ cooldown I keep an incredible amount of speed. And Throw is just so incredibly spammable that it can usually kill anything unarmored with ease which you can deal with an SMG or scoped Heavy Pistol.

[Autochthon]

AizakkuFurosto wrote...

DrekorSilverfang wrote...

Tried tech armor... I find it to be nothing short of awful. For a caster playstyle it's completely counter-productive. For an aggressive CQC style it's ok but you could do more damage and be more survivable by just playing a vanguard, it's basically the exact same style just with ability specifically tuned to the CQC aggression playstyle.

I agree that Trch Armo, compared to the ME2 version was nerfed. But I don't play a caster style. A play a hybrid style. I am in no manner or form the best Sentinel out there as I still have room to improve. But very few people can successfully run a Human Sentinel with TA and play Gold.

First off I ran some tests and the cooldown at Rank 6 with the -30%, becoming 50% and running two guns which had me at 187% rather than 200%, I had a Warp time of an average of 3.4 whereas with an Adept at 200% a Warp in average of about 2.7. True the 0.7 can mean a lot. But so does the 25% damage reduction which has helped me survive. I can't play an Adept the way I can play my Sentinel. And as the picture shows even running Assist I got 50 Biotic Kills, 50 Kills along with my 50 Assists; a hardcore player will probably do better with my build. But it works and since TA now does damage like a normal Soldier grenade, detonation can actually be useful, as long as you are smart with it. Everyone who says TA is "horrible" is wrong... And yet they are also right. There are a lot of things I would fix. However TA can be worked around specifically by using one pretty solid weapon and at a high rank where the weapon becomes lighter. Without the penalty and usually keeping 150%+ cooldown I keep an incredible amount of speed. And Throw is just so incredibly spammable that it can usually kill anything unarmored with ease which you can deal with an SMG or scoped Heavy Pistol.

You have a 30% loss in scaling damage basically so you can feel good and run aroudn shooting things.

Drop tech armor completely and use cover mechanics. You now do nearly 50% more damage over time from detonations, which are a much higher DPS contribution against most opponents.

[AizakkuFurosto]

How can you say 33% less DPS? Do you have a mathematical proof to this? And I do use cover mechanics otherwise I would spend most of the time dead in Gold.

EDIT: At any rate DPS is good but as WoW's Retadin builds also showed so is Burst damage. And at most the difference in speed is 25~26%. However unless an Asari forgoes completely using Stasis she will not be doing +100% Biotic Explosion power damage and force as she would have to straight spam only Warp-Throw for the Detonate. Also keep in mind I gain a 20% bonus to power damage when applying Warp or Throw and a 35% when applying a Throw during Warp's Expose. I am not sure however if thise determines the damage a Biotic Explosion does.

Modifié par AizakkuFurosto, 14 mars 2012 - 04:11 .

[AizakkuFurosto]

I can't post well from my iPhone.

I disagree Autochton. I made a run with an Asari Adept as long as I play smart I can pace with her in damage. Yes she still has the edge and will always have it as she excels in it. But being able to pace her in score... Then my Sentinel must be otherworldly...

Modifié par AizakkuFurosto, 14 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Makatak]

The TA's other evolution is increased power damage and force by 20% while it's active. So while you lose cooldown time, you make up for it in that your warps, throws, and biotic detonations do hit that little bit harder. Yes, it may not make up for a supposed 33% loss in DPS (which is hard to accurately gauge seeing as Sentinel Bio Combo DPS is burst and much of it will be lost in overkill anyways), but where it falls that little bit short, it makes up for in its seemingly negligible 25% DR and, particularly fighting geth, that one time you need to fire it to get Hunters off your back.

My $0.02.

[AizakkuFurosto]

Makatak wrote...

The TA's other evolution is increased power damage and force by 20% while it's active. So while you lose cooldown time, you make up for it in that your warps, throws, and biotic detonations do hit that little bit harder. Yes, it may not make up for a supposed 33% loss in DPS (which is hard to accurately gauge seeing as Sentinel Bio Combo DPS is burst and much of it will be lost in overkill anyways), but where it falls that little bit short, it makes up for in its seemingly negligible 25% DR and, particularly fighting geth, that one time you need to fire it to get Hunters off your back.

My $0.02.

Its around 25~26% loss. The 25% DR adds up during a whole match so its decent; I can tell the difference when I am not using it as things I will barely survive outright kill me (I play Adept as well and they are glass cannons) 

i am uncertain if that 35% also applies to the Biotic Explosion but I do know it does and will affect Throw's 200 damage. Either way Burst can be just as dangerous as DPS specifically when your Bursts are pretty high. Like I mentioned an Asari Adept will have to stick to using Warp-Throw to always get, minimum, the +100% bonuses from Detonate. Furthermore the 25% DR does help as low as it seems though to be sure I would have prefer the old Tech Armor +% Shield increasing mechanics from ME2. On the flip side the Detonate may not have the same range and has no Force but it does deal a lot more damage than the usual ME2 Tech Armor detonation.

[AizakkuFurosto]

*bump

[Sussurus]

Ok so just built one, only tried Human Sentinal on bronze ( as that was the first match I got.)

So basically maxed out everything but warp.
Tech armour, Durability, power damage, durability at 4,5,6.
Throw: Force, detonate, force and damage.
Alliance training: Power and weight, power, weapon weight mod.
Fitness: Pure defense.

Weapons:Pistol: Phalanx I damage and ammo mod, Submachine gun: Shuriken VIII capacity mods both slots.
Cooldowns 200%

Only when solo out in open vs a phantom + others did I need survivours pack... Mostly due to throw glitching to useless that time.

Ended up first position ( no I don't care, but just highlighting that Human sentinal is not under powered.)
Close to 60000.. how many noughts is bronze? close to 2nd and third place combinded.

Pros.. Throw works really fast, if another caster is around can get quick detonations.
Tech armour and shields stops a heck of a lot, making cover pop outs safer.
A good if fantasy paladin / warrior priest / mage build.

[AizakkuFurosto]

Sussurus wrote...

That is another interesting build.

In my case I went max TA, Warp, Throw and Fitness for Burst damage. TA with D&R is as good as a proximity mine damage wise. Warp with Expose and Pierce is an excellent debuff when playing assist. And that 25% DR +20% PD and F makes for a lot of Burst damage. Throw is just so easy to spam you will feel like some kind of pitcher.

However I still feel TA should make some changes to make it better:
Detonation should add Force at least 200N.
Detonation should give an immediate shield regen or boost.
More radius to the detonation.
Slightly lower the penalty to maybe 50% and the Power Recharge evolution to 20%.

[Sussurus]

The power recharge and shield restock I can agree would be helpful.
Maybe not full on as then Vanguards and Sentinels would just be far closer than separate.

Good build, I may try the other sex so as to see how that runs.

Throw even with 80% - the 200% cooldown bonus is spamable.
So that remained the same as my adept only slightly slower cook time.

Ok silver it works as well, though ranked last place it allowed recovery of friends.
Took a beating, though even hard hitters only scratched first health bar with a direct hit when hugging / popping cover.

Made the noob mistake of running into a situation that cost me flatlining once, but a good vanguard covered that and resuscitated me.

[grayrest]

I wish Human Sentinels got Defensive Matrix instead of Tech Armor. I know Tech Armor is the class power but Soldiers and Engineers vary by race so it's not unprecedented.

[AizakkuFurosto]

Sussurus wrote...

The power recharge and shield restock I can agree would be helpful.
Maybe not full on as then Vanguards and Sentinels would just be far closer than separate.

Good build, I may try the other sex so as to see how that runs.

Throw even with 80% - the 200% cooldown bonus is spamable.
So that remained the same as my adept only slightly slower cook time.

Ok silver it works as well, though ranked last place it allowed recovery of friends.
Took a beating, though even hard hitters only scratched first health bar with a direct hit when hugging / popping cover.

Made the noob mistake of running into a situation that cost me flatlining once, but a good vanguard covered that and resuscitated me.

Silver feels like Bronze now unless I do something really stupid. Gold depends on the team. I reiterate the Human Sentinel feels a lot like a jack of all trades. He cannot excel like say an Asari Adept but neither is he a Glass Cannon like the majority of Adepts. You are more resilient even with 25% DR but you are no tank like say a Krogan. But it balances out it does feel a lot like a Paladin with Burst damage.

[AizakkuFurosto]

grayrest wrote...

I wish Human Sentinels got Defensive Matrix instead of Tech Armor. I know Tech Armor is the class power but Soldiers and Engineers vary by race so it's not unprecedented.

How does DM work? Sounds like its better geared for a Human. Could you elaborate what Defensive Matrix does?

[humes spork]

AizakkuFurosto wrote...

How does DM work? Sounds like its better geared for a Human. Could you elaborate what Defensive Matrix does?

It's basically the same thing as tech armor, but it has a lower cooldown penalty and instead of an explosion when you purge it, it restores your shields.

[AizakkuFurosto]

That sounds A HECK LOT more useful for the Human class. Wait does it stay on forever or a duration.

Modifié par AizakkuFurosto, 14 mars 2012 - 10:33 .

[woah_geez]

AizakkuFurosto wrote...

How can you say 33% less DPS? Do you have a mathematical proof to this? And I do use cover mechanics otherwise I would spend most of the time dead in Gold.

EDIT: At any rate DPS is good but as WoW's Retadin builds also showed so is Burst damage. And at most the difference in speed is 25~26%. However unless an Asari forgoes completely using Stasis she will not be doing +100% Biotic Explosion power damage and force as she would have to straight spam only Warp-Throw for the Detonate. Also keep in mind I gain a 20% bonus to power damage when applying Warp or Throw and a 35% when applying a Throw during Warp's Expose. I am not sure however if thise determines the damage a Biotic Explosion does.

Power damage bonus's have no effect on biotic explosions, this includes expose. What does matter is the rank of warp and throw and the detonate evolutions. Level 6 warp and throw do the most powerful biotic explosion.

Unless you put all 21 points into tech armor you will have 80% power speed penalty, this is devastating so we have to assume all 21 points are there. From here there is no way you can max out your damage on biotic explosion unless you want to have 500 hp/shields. If you want survivability enough to play on silver you will be throwing gimped explosions with at best 150% casting bonus if you are using the lightest weapons in the game.

Or you can have my build, 180% casting speed bonus, max strength biotic explosions, 825 health and shields, and a carnifex with level 5 damage mod. Drop brutes in 7-8 seconds on gold, if anyone else is shooting at them cut it in half as the second explosion is always overkill.

[woah_geez]

AizakkuFurosto wrote...

Its around 25~26% loss. The 25% DR adds up during a whole match so its decent; I can tell the difference when I am not using it as things I will barely survive outright kill me (I play Adept as well and they are glass cannons) 

i am uncertain if that 35% also applies to the Biotic Explosion but I do know it does and will affect Throw's 200 damage. Either way Burst can be just as dangerous as DPS specifically when your Bursts are pretty high. Like I mentioned an Asari Adept will have to stick to using Warp-Throw to always get, minimum, the +100% bonuses from Detonate. Furthermore the 25% DR does help as low as it seems though to be sure I would have prefer the old Tech Armor +% Shield increasing mechanics from ME2. On the flip side the Detonate may not have the same range and has no Force but it does deal a lot more damage than the usual ME2 Tech Armor detonation.

You're completely wrong, an asari adept thats built right is tankier than your build with tech armor. Extra health and shields is much more effective than damage reduction. I don't understand how you got confused here, maybe you just really want to use tech armor? Thats okay but it won't make you survive longer compared to fitness.

[-Jaren-]

If you're running Gold, then drop TA. Max Throw and Warp to spec biotic explosions. End of story.

[ttchip]

-Jaren- wrote...

If you're running Gold, then drop TA. Max Throw and Warp to spec biotic explosions. End of story.

Basicly this.

[AizakkuFurosto]

-Jaren- wrote...

If you're running Gold, then drop TA. Max Throw and Warp to spec biotic explosions. End of story.

I run Gold.

I don't need to drop TA. I posted a succesful Gold run among the many I've had. I'm not interested in being MVP I'm interested in pacing score with the rest and getting the job done and get my credits. And to play against two Quarian Infiltrators I did pretty well and I have only owned the game for 2 days now.

Unless you even run the build then I don't see reason to posting what you just did, same goes for everyone else who hasn't even tried the build and are posting criticism.

[woah_geez]

I've tried it every human sentinel build imaginable. I was once confused and thought tech armor was better than fitness but I like playing efficient. You can play however you want but if you say max tech armor sentinel is comparable to asari adept I'll call you out.

[-Jaren-]

AizakkuFurosto wrote...

-Jaren- wrote...

If you're running Gold, then drop TA. Max Throw and Warp to spec biotic explosions. End of story.

I run Gold.

I don't need to drop TA. I posted a succesful Gold run among the many I've had. I'm not interested in being MVP I'm interested in pacing score with the rest and getting the job done and get my credits. And to play against two Quarian Infiltrators I did pretty well and I have only owned the game for 2 days now.

Unless you even run the build then I don't see reason to posting what you just did, same goes for everyone else who hasn't even tried the build and are posting criticism.

If you're not spamming biotic explosions you're doing something wrong.  I am definitely not questioning if it's viable.  All classes on any build can complete Gold.  There are of course better ways to go about it. 

I have built a Sentinel mulitple ways and a biotic explosion build is my current #1

And lol @ playing "against" two QI's.  Team game no? 

[MrDudley]

You can max out all 3 abilities but your health and shields will be gimped.

Tech armor is very good for mop up.

Full warp, full throw, full tech armor... but only slight buff to shields, health.