183 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

AJRimmsey wrote...

game buyers are entitled to whatever they pay for.

if they buy a game they are entitled to a game
if they dont like the game then they are then entitled to ebay it.

iff however they think they are entitled to then demand the games changed to cater for them they are simply dilusional

they are also entitled to create thier own game catered to thier own tastes.
but good luck selling it.
as they will fast find they are a very small minority facing others demanding they change that game to the others demands.

Well I have to agree with what you said, but add they are entitled to fair criticism of the product. If you had 3 forumites to make a ME game you'd have 12 different scripts for each encounter. (Yes borrowing from Samara a bit).

[Volus Warlord]

You are entitled to DEATH, like all others.

[kbct]

knightnblu wrote...

You are greatly oversimplifying. By reducing the argument to good vs. bad you ignore the multitude of criticisms regarding the endings. I have written many posts regarding the endings of ME3 and I have detailed significant moral issues, logical fallacies, and plot holes that renders the ending incapable of holding water. I believe these criticisms to be legitimate. Does BioWare have to listen to any of it? Not at all, but it is also readily apparent in ME3 that they do with the nods to various posts acknowledged.

With that knowledge firmly in mind people are again voicing their opinions regarding what they feel to be an error. Particularly in view of the book debacle, the leaked scripts, the leaked game play beta, etc., because all of this means that the company has been locked in a frenetic push to fight fires, make product, and get it out the door by deadline. In such an environment things get missed.

Was ME3 a great game right up until the final ten minutes? Absolutely, in my opinion BioWare handed us an incredible cap to the series. Then...well you can read my complaints about it in other threads. My point is this, the complaints against the ending are legitimate and not merely simple grousing by fans who hate to see Shepard's story arc end. Is it true that folks like to complain? Sure, but that is not the case with the ME3 ending.

Agreed.

Some people want to pigeonhole the game owners who are requesting new endings by using words with negative connotations like "entitled" and "demanding" so they can take the moral high ground. They twist the conversation for own agenda.

Most people here are requesting that BioWare change the ending. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[AJRimmsey]

Wise Men wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

game buyers are entitled to whatever they pay for.

if they buy a game they are entitled to a game
if they dont like the game then they are then entitled to ebay it.

iff however they think they are entitled to then demand the games changed to cater for them they are simply dilusional

they are also entitled to create thier own game catered to thier own tastes.
but good luck selling it.
as they will fast find they are a very small minority facing others demanding they change that game to the others demands.

Well stated. I really don't know where gamers get this warped sense of entitlement. In fact, it seems that we are the only consumer body with it. It's quite unreasonsable.

It seems to me, In all other forms of media or entertainment, It's quite simple, either a consumer decides to buy a product or not. But gamers seem to be the only ones who continue to buy said product but then complain about how it was packaged. It's doesn't make much sense to me.

I say, we need to lose this warped sense of entitlement. The developer has a product. We get to decide to purchase the product or not. We also get to influence the direction and some areas of development, to a degree. We don't get to decide every facet of how it's developed. And I feel we should be ok with that. Seriously, who DEMANDS that a company rewrite their body of work? It reminds me of the movie "Misery". (and that's pretty sad).

in all fairness i also have to point out there is a situation where i am asked to change a body of work to cater to someone elses ideals..

but when that happens i am paid to do it.
which is fair,if i want the money i will change it.

but if someone orders me to do it for free and is in front of me they tend to get punched.
which i also think is fair :innocent:

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 13 mars 2012 - 03:26 .

[Ex0dus_]

AJRimmsey wrote...

game buyers are entitled to whatever they pay for.

if they buy a game they are entitled to a game
if they dont like the game then they are then entitled to ebay it.

iff however they think they are entitled to then demand the games changed to cater for them they are simply dilusional

they are also entitled to create thier own game catered to thier own tastes.
but good luck selling it.
as they will fast find they are a very small minority facing others demanding they change that game to the others demands.

I would say that this arguement holds merit if we count only stand alone games, but in mass effect's case we are talking about 3 intertwined games. You can't simply look at one without looking at the others. Players have a right to an acceptable closure of the whole story after they had alrdy bought 2 games beforehand.

[InvincibleHero]

Planeforger wrote...

Without getting into spoilers (or...okay, extremely vague and mild spoilers), that isn't why people are upset.
People are upset because nothing was conclusive in the end, and nothing they did during the trilogy really mattered; the last ten minutes was just an immensely unsatisfying, plot-hole filled deus ex machina.

It's not so much that they didn't get the ending that they wanted - it's more that the ending came out of nowhere, totally jumped the shark, and raised more questions than it answered.

Anyway, back on topic, I sort of agree.
The ending is the ending Bioware intended; they weren't going to launch the game unless they were satisfied with the final product, and people aren't entitled to get anything beyond that. Bioware really shouldn't go back and just write a fan-fictiony ending, no matter how unlikable the current ending might be, because...well, that's what they wanted to write.

I'd have to disagree nothing conclusive. The state of the universe is vastly different in all of them. I wonder which will be canon in the end.

Well the raising questions part will obviously delve into spoiler territory so send me a Pm if you wish to discuss.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. They need to maintain the role of the creator vs. the audience.

[InvincibleHero]

javierabegazo wrote...

I think the most important thing they're entitled is the same thing every consumer should be entitled to, honest advertising. I think that video game developers should have the integrity to attempt to correct their mistakes when they're found, not wait until a large enough ruckus is made.

Throwing in easter eggs isn't enough to maintain respectability I don't think.

Well I hope you and others get a satisfactory resolution in this situation.

[AnttiV]

MedhiaNox wrote...

@AnttiV: Why would I send you money?

Do not complain to me when your sense of entitlement is met with disappointment - it was your perspective that was incorrect - not "the universe which didn't give you what you were entitled to".

Okay, let's rephrase it. Hypotetical situation: You're buying a smartphone from me. I advertise that it is a complete and functional phone, nothing is broken or missing, it is brand new.

You'll give me the money, and I'll give you the phone. However, as you open the box you see that it is only the phone, nothing more. No microSD cards, no chargers, no handsfree (that you might've expected as any other smartphone comes with these), and worst of all, no battery. As it is, it's a non-functionaly out of the box, you can't use it before spending money for a charger and battery. 

Would you NOT feel entitled to get those (at least the battery and charger) from me, as I advertised that it was a complete and functional, with nothing missing? Would you still be of the opinion that nobody is entitled to anything, even then?

[AJRimmsey]

Ex0dus_ wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

game buyers are entitled to whatever they pay for.

if they buy a game they are entitled to a game
if they dont like the game then they are then entitled to ebay it.

iff however they think they are entitled to then demand the games changed to cater for them they are simply dilusional

they are also entitled to create thier own game catered to thier own tastes.
but good luck selling it.
as they will fast find they are a very small minority facing others demanding they change that game to the others demands.

I would say that this arguement holds merit if we count only stand alone games, but in mass effect's case we are talking about 3 intertwined games. You can't simply look at one without looking at the others. Players have a right to an acceptable closure of the whole story after they had alrdy bought 2 games beforehand.

previous purchases dont really have any relevance to the third.

for example when i buy an asimov,i am under no delusion that i then have the right to say what direction the next should take.
the same is with games,we are not buying a game tailored to our wants,we are buying a game tailored to the creators wants.

if the creator wants to end the game as a parody of a muppet movie,then thats what it will be.

whats happening here is a very few wanted what some have called a "disney" ending.

take bladerunner,i wanted the bots to live,but tthey didnt.
and we were left wondering on the life of the hero and his bot..

now if people were asking bioware to create an expansion where ...say shepards cloned and the adventure continues,and were willing to pay for that..then i have no quibbles at all over them suggesting whats in that expansion.

ps..a quibble is a small furry gay version of a tribble

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 13 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[Il Divo]

InvincibleHero wrote...

That is a fine question but people are taking their inch and trying to stretch it for a mile. BW has always controlled the story and Shepard. They created and breathed life into the character and franchise. It is their right to end things how they want. Gamers do not have a right to write the games and make character changes. If BW caves it will be a blow against any artistic integrity of any media producing company ever. You cannot let the people dictate changes to an already finished IP. Do you get to write your own endings to movies or Tv shows or even change the characters given? Nope. You can have an opinion on disliking the endings and that's fine , but to demand changes and holler and kick a tantrum to get your way is not very mature or sensible. Does BW dictate how you do things in your daily life do they tell you how to do your job at work? No way. You have no right to dictate theirs.

But who exactly is dictating? We have as much right to form petitions, vote with our wallets, as Bioware has to charge for day 1 dlc. Ultimately, we have all the right in the world. Bioware ultimately is selling a product. I paid $60 for Mass Effect 1 + all dlc. $60 for Mass Effect 2 + all dlc. And now $80 for Mass Effect 3. I don't see myself as entitled to anything. However, I also have the right to use my wallet in whatever manner I want. I will pay for ending dlc, if it comes to it. And I will make certain it is known that the product as released did not satisfy.

I cannot understand the hate people going it was great until the final ten minutes so this game is trash? So your last bite of lasagna wasn't as piping hot and maybe a little watery from sitting does that make the meal less satisfying? Are you going to never touch lasagne again? Of course not. People are going wild with drama and entitlement mentality. They delivered on most accounts a very fine game which is the job we expect companies to do.

To use a more fitting example on the spoiler forums though, it's like having a five star gourmet dinner only to have the waiter punch you on the way out. The ending affected everyone's overall enjoyment on different levels.

Fair game is bugs and poor quality of things like graphics , and gameplay and even story critique. Demanding an ending patch is so over the top spoiled-rotten territory. It is fine to give feedback and likes and dislikes but keep a proper perspective. You are demanding what you want and do not care what BW the actual owner/creator desires. That is egotistical by any measure.

The developer's job is centered entirely around consumer wants. If Bioware sees themselves as artistic creators, good for them. But the market will win out. Ultimately, I (as a fan) don't care what Bioware wants. No consumer cares what the company wants. They care about having their desires satisfied.

I empathize not liking something, but once you make your distaste known then that should be the end of it. I've played many good games with bad endings, but I put it in perspective that is a small part of the game. If I enjoyed it up until then then it was a great game and if it had replayability then I would play it again. You have to ask the opposite if you got the ending you wanted and the rest of the game was bad would that elevate the game to game of the year? Ummm no obviously. So fan demands are based on the premise that over inflates the importance of the ending. You didn't get what you wanted so deal with it like any other disappointment that you have no control over. Move on and let the anger and hate go. You only punish yourself for harboring such negative emotions beyond a reasonable time.

You're presuming your own conclusions. For many fans, myself included, the answer is a very clear yes. That is how much the ending soured the entire experience.

Modifié par Il Divo, 13 mars 2012 - 03:39 .

[Vasarkian]

Those assets that we spent 27+ hours building in ME3 and which was the whole point of ME3 until the end... yeah didn't matter how many fleets or soldiers we accumulated, they did nothing at any point in the game, and then the final mission with all its potential had nothing to do with those assets, and then the ending ignored them entirely.

[kbct]

AJRimmsey wrote...

whats happening here is a very few wanted what some have called a "disney" ending.

I wouldn't call it a few and wouldn't say they wanted a "disney" ending. The polls and user reviews don't support that statement.

[InvincibleHero]

the satirist wrote...

tl;dr

who cares what user are entitled to or not? the fact that thousands of people protest and complain about the endings just shows how involved people became with the mass effect series. This is probably the best and sincerest tribute to an artwork you can possibly get.

So hate is sincere flattery?  They may love ME, but each person has their own how they wanted things to turn out. BW cannot please everyone and had to end it how they felt they needed to. PERIOD.

[Vasarkian]

I refer to the fact that the assets didn't matter, because they didn't matter the ending didn't have to take them into account, that is probably the sole reason you have this abysmal ending, because they ignored throughout the entirety of the game that your primary purpose was to accumulate assets that didn't help you at any point in the actual game.

[Il Divo]

AJRimmsey wrote...

in all fairness i also have to point out there is a situation where i am asked to change a body of work to cater to someone elses ideals..

but when that happens i am paid to do it.
which is fair,if i want the money i will change it.

but if someone orders me to do it for free and is in front of me they tend to get punched.
which i also think is fair :innocent:

I do not want it for free.

[AnttiV]

Il Divo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
I empathize not liking something, but once you make your distaste known then that should be the end of it. I've played many good games with bad endings, but I put it in perspective that is a small part of the game. If I enjoyed it up until then then it was a great game and if it had replayability then I would play it again. You have to ask the opposite if you got the ending you wanted and the rest of the game was bad would that elevate the game to game of the year? Ummm no obviously. So fan demands are based on the premise that over inflates the importance of the ending. You didn't get what you wanted so deal with it like any other disappointment that you have no control over. Move on and let the anger and hate go. You only punish yourself for harboring such negative emotions beyond a reasonable time.

You're presuming your own conclusions. For many fans, myself included, the answer is a very clear yes. That is how much the ending soured the entire experience.

Exactly. And while we're on the subject of the ending making it better and while we're drawing similarities with movies - consider how many movies there are that are mediocre on the whole without their ending, but the ending is something that explains/shocks/makes is all matter and elevates the whole experience to another level. 

There's the Sixth Sense and the infamous "I can see dead people" -pharse. 

And of course couple of classics that really drive that point home: Usual Suspects and Fallen. 

[Voidlight]

We should rightly expect writers to live up to their end of the reader-writer contract.

[Linus108]

I don't think anyone is entitled to anything, except the product that was advertised. You are especially not entitled to anything if you aren't paying for it.

But if you are, then you are a consumer. And so Consumer's have the right to base their future purchasing decisions based on the product they bought. The companies that sell these games are also not entitled to our money (in the future).

So I don't see why people think it's wrong for fans wanting a change in the product they paid for. Of course no one is going to hold BioWare by a gun and say: change it or else. People instead, are using their voice as consumers that they won't be buying DLC or future products if they don't change what many feel is an incomplete product that lacks quality.

Modifié par Linus108, 13 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[InvincibleHero]

AnttiV wrote...

I'll write a quick reply before all the points disappear from my head, but I'll probably come back to this at some point.

But.

1) Are we entitled to demand something from a piece of artistic work?
Well, not, as such. HOWEVER! Please note that there are multiple reviews and tweets and posts by people responsible for what Mass Effect 3 ultimately is that reported (wildly) different things pre-release. We, the fans and customers, based our decision to buy the product on the information that was released to us before we got to see what the product really was. It clearly isn't what the reviews and reports make it out to be. I'm not able to right now scourge the web for all the links, but if you search this forum and ME's FB page, there are countless of examples of these.

2) Why the end sours the whole experience.
Think about you lasagne. It was delicious up until the end, yes. But at the last bit you notice that the lasagne contained an ingredient that you are allergic to. You get sick and start to regret ever eating the food. While it was undoubtedly good, the final piece sours the experience and makes the whole thing less than what you expected. For example, if you thought you were eating lactose-free lasagne the whole time, and when you're eating the last bit somebody runs in and tells you not only was it not lactose-free, they even ADDED more of that in.

3) Is it right for consumers to demand correction to products they have bought?
In general, yes. But that usually concerns only physical products that are not "art" or somesuch. Like you are fully entitled to exchange a product that is inherently broken. (like a Monitor with dead pixels, for example.)

It becomes a bit trickier when art and writing enter the fray. Are you entitled to demand a change to some book's ending because you didn't like it? No. You have the right to *ask* for it, but no rights to *demand* it. But, it becomes even more trickier when a series is concerned. You, as a fan and customer have some expectations of what you're buying into. Let's say you buy a Sherlock Holmes novel. You can quite well expect what is in it. If, at the last moment when the bad guy should be punished, Darth Vader comes in, shoots Sherlock in the face and says it was all a dream. I bet returning fans of mr. Holmes would be FURIOUS. They're buying into a series that entitle certain expectations, more so if reviews/reports of said product have surfaced before and the CREATORS of said product have promised certain things.

If those things are NOT in the product.. well, in my opinion the fans, in that case, ARE actually entitled to demand a change. If it was ANY physical product, it would be called false advertising and the company should go into court.

Note: I'm not saying ME3 as such an extreme, or that BioWare should go into court for what ME3 is. Not in the slightest.

That is a problem with works in progress as they do change by the end. Everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. Peter Molyneux often promised a much grander vision than what he delivers. However, everyone is going to talk glowingly of how their product will be better than what preceeded it. You have to do your own homeowrk to evaluate whether the product fits your needs. Don't buy hype.

That analogy is unfair. No one will possibly die from disliking how the game ended. I doubt anyone would break out in hives or have physiological reactions to it either. It is a problem with the taste and that is what my analogy spoke of.

Asking for a correction (no matter how nicely done) to a work of art is akin to demanding it. You have no right of ownership of the IP. You are saying I disagree with you who created ME or whatever work of art. If and when someon makes something so nonsensical you'd have a point. Most writers try to keep lore and consistency through a series. It isn't always possible to adhere to it 100%. Marvel Comics in the 80s were much better because they enforced continuity IMO. Not that I haven't read great stories since, but as a whole they made more sense.

[KorPhaeron]

InvincibleHero wrote...

That is a fine question but people are taking their inch and trying to stretch it for a mile. BW has always controlled the story and Shepard. They created and breathed life into the character and franchise. It is their right to end things how they want. Gamers do not have a right to write the games and make character changes. If BW caves it will be a blow against any artistic integrity of any media producing company ever. You cannot let the people dictate changes to an already finished IP. Do you get to write your own endings to movies or Tv shows or even change the characters given? Nope. You can have an opinion on disliking the endings and that's fine , but to demand changes and holler and kick a tantrum to get your way is not very mature or sensible. Does BW dictate how you do things in your daily life do they tell you how to do your job at work? No way. You have no right to dictate theirs.

I cannot understand the hate people going it was great until the final ten minutes so this game is trash? So your last bite of lasagna wasn't as piping hot and maybe a little watery from sitting does that make the meal less satisfying? Are you going to never touch lasagne again? Of course not. People are going wild with drama and entitlement mentality. They delivered on most accounts a very fine game which is the job we expect companies to do.

Your job is to buy it or not period. If you don't like it fine as all products have the caveat they aren't for everyone. They owe you nothing and they could have ended the series at ME2 if they wanted. Do you want to be so demanding a fan base BW would gladly ditch you? I think it has reached that point. I would not blame them if they turned a deaf ear to fan demands now. They listened and gave things all these years yet that only increased your appetite for more and bolder demands. You are not armchair game designers no matter how much you want to be. Your job is product consumer period. If you don't play the game again that is your loss from self-inflicted wounds.


Fair game is bugs and poor quality of things like graphics , and gameplay and even story critique. Demanding an ending patch is so over the top spoiled-rotten territory. It is fine to give feedback and likes and dislikes but keep a proper perspective. You are demanding what you want and do not care what BW the actual owner/creator desires. That is egotistical by any measure.


I personally would have preferred some other possible endings being available, but I will be cool with their decision to end their franchise , character, and IP how they choose. I intend to buy it when I have the means to do so. The author has all the rights of creation and that is the natural order of things. Yes I have read in detail the endings so I know what is in store for my playthroughs. Still doesn't dent my desire to play ME 3 in the least.


I empathize not liking something, but once you make your distaste known then that should be the end of it. I've played many good games with bad endings, but I put it in perspective that is a small part of the game. If I enjoyed it up until then then it was a great game and if it had replayability then I would play it again. You have to ask the opposite if you got the ending you wanted and the rest of the game was bad would that elevate the game to game of the year? Ummm no obviously. So fan demands are based on the premise that over inflates the importance of the ending. You didn't get what you wanted so deal with it like any other disappointment that you have no control over. Move on and let the anger and hate go. You only punish yourself for harboring such negative emotions beyond a reasonable time.


ME 3 was a product of many hours of work by many dedicated people and we shouldn't lose sight of that. They are fellow humans with feelings like anyone and to see people trash their hard work because you didn't get what you wanted is a head hanging moment. They should be proud of their work. Have you been praising what you liked or spending more time trashing the small part of the game you didn't?

What I find funny is that alot of people are using the word "entitled" in some moral good/bad context. Im sorry but everyone is "entitled" to whatever thay want. You might not get it, but that doesnt mean you dont need to try.

I am "entitled" to demand anything of anyone, its called free will, i might not get it but demanding is my right.

Anyone who says that you arent "entitled" to anything is closed minded and is supporting a type of mind slavery.

[Linus108]

InvincibleHero wrote...

AnttiV wrote...

I'll write a quick reply before all the points disappear from my head, but I'll probably come back to this at some point.

But.

1) Are we entitled to demand something from a piece of artistic work?
Well, not, as such. HOWEVER! Please note that there are multiple reviews and tweets and posts by people responsible for what Mass Effect 3 ultimately is that reported (wildly) different things pre-release. We, the fans and customers, based our decision to buy the product on the information that was released to us before we got to see what the product really was. It clearly isn't what the reviews and reports make it out to be. I'm not able to right now scourge the web for all the links, but if you search this forum and ME's FB page, there are countless of examples of these.

2) Why the end sours the whole experience.
Think about you lasagne. It was delicious up until the end, yes. But at the last bit you notice that the lasagne contained an ingredient that you are allergic to. You get sick and start to regret ever eating the food. While it was undoubtedly good, the final piece sours the experience and makes the whole thing less than what you expected. For example, if you thought you were eating lactose-free lasagne the whole time, and when you're eating the last bit somebody runs in and tells you not only was it not lactose-free, they even ADDED more of that in.

3) Is it right for consumers to demand correction to products they have bought?
In general, yes. But that usually concerns only physical products that are not "art" or somesuch. Like you are fully entitled to exchange a product that is inherently broken. (like a Monitor with dead pixels, for example.)

It becomes a bit trickier when art and writing enter the fray. Are you entitled to demand a change to some book's ending because you didn't like it? No. You have the right to *ask* for it, but no rights to *demand* it. But, it becomes even more trickier when a series is concerned. You, as a fan and customer have some expectations of what you're buying into. Let's say you buy a Sherlock Holmes novel. You can quite well expect what is in it. If, at the last moment when the bad guy should be punished, Darth Vader comes in, shoots Sherlock in the face and says it was all a dream. I bet returning fans of mr. Holmes would be FURIOUS. They're buying into a series that entitle certain expectations, more so if reviews/reports of said product have surfaced before and the CREATORS of said product have promised certain things.

If those things are NOT in the product.. well, in my opinion the fans, in that case, ARE actually entitled to demand a change. If it was ANY physical product, it would be called false advertising and the company should go into court.

Note: I'm not saying ME3 as such an extreme, or that BioWare should go into court for what ME3 is. Not in the slightest.

That is a problem with works in progress as they do change by the end. Everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. Peter Molyneux often promised a much grander vision than what he delivers. However, everyone is going to talk glowingly of how their product will be better than what preceeded it. You have to do your own homeowrk to evaluate whether the product fits your needs. Don't buy hype.

That analogy is unfair. No one will possibly die from disliking how the game ended. I doubt anyone would break out in hives or have physiological reactions to it either. It is a problem with the taste and that is what my analogy spoke of.

Asking for a correction (no matter how nicely done) to a work of art is akin to demanding it. You have no right of ownership of the IP. You are saying I disagree with you who created ME or whatever work of art. If and when someon makes something so nonsensical you'd have a point. Most writers try to keep lore and consistency through a series. It isn't always possible to adhere to it 100%. Marvel Comics in the 80s were much better because they enforced continuity IMO. Not that I haven't read great stories since, but as a whole they made more sense.

You have the right to excercise your wallet, and what you spend your money on. BioWare doesn't have to do a damn thing. I think most of us agree with this. But we also don't have to buy DLC or any future games from them.

Modifié par Linus108, 13 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[Ex0dus_]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Ex0dus_ wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

game buyers are entitled to whatever they pay for.

if they buy a game they are entitled to a game
if they dont like the game then they are then entitled to ebay it.

iff however they think they are entitled to then demand the games changed to cater for them they are simply dilusional

they are also entitled to create thier own game catered to thier own tastes.
but good luck selling it.
as they will fast find they are a very small minority facing others demanding they change that game to the others demands.

I would say that this arguement holds merit if we count only stand alone games, but in mass effect's case we are talking about 3 intertwined games. You can't simply look at one without looking at the others. Players have a right to an acceptable closure of the whole story after they had alrdy bought 2 games beforehand.

previous purchases dont really have any relevance to the third.

for example when i buy an asimov,i am under no delusion that i then have the right to say what direction the next should take.
the same is with games,we are not buying a game tailored to our wants,we are buying a game tailored to the creators wants.

if the creator wants to end the game as a parody of a muppet movie,then thats what it will be.

whats happening here is a very few wanted what some have called a "disney" ending.

take bladerunner,i wanted the bots to live,but tthey didnt.
and we were left wondering on the life of the hero and his bot..

now if people were asking bioware to create an expansion where ...say shepards cloned and the adventure continues,and were willing to pay for that..then i have no quibbles at all over them suggesting whats in that expansion.

ps..a quibble is a small furry gay version of a tribble

There is a very sharp difference between the passive mediums and the interactive ones. In a movie you are just an observer and not an activ participant in the events,  while in a game you are. This alone sets videogames apart from other entertainments.

Mass effect prides itself with the choices you can make, and that you can make em. What kind of choices can you make in a book? Should i read or not, basically.

Your statement about disney ending is a blatant lie. By lying to make your point come across, you just managed to trip on your shoelaces.

Modifié par Ex0dus_, 13 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Ohpus]

GODzilla_GSPB wrote...

I don't think gamers are entitled to more as, say, cinema visitors.

Both had the opportunity to hear critics review the medium before they bought the ticket / the game, but in the end it is their own decision to watch / play it. I for instance went into the latest "Underworld" movie despite knowing it got mediocre reviews. But I loved the series so far and as a fan I watched it. And it was fun.

And as with games, experiencing a movie with a high or "hyped" anticipation can lead to severe disappointment.

Ask yourself: Are the producers of movies not trying to persuade you to watch the movie via trailers? And are these trailers not made in a way to show the best scenes of that movie, often underlined with fitting music (that may not even be part of the actual movie at all)? Of course they do. It's called advertising. And advertising is not inherently the same as "telling the truth".

So this whole nonsense about "Bioware lied & needs to apologize" is way over the top in my opinion.

You logic breaks down because a lot of the initial profits and push is for pre-orders. They get most of their money in the initial couple weeks. In that time period coming up to making the decision people's only real information is what the developer promises. When their promises lead people to order ahead of time with false assumptions that is deceptive advertising.

I felt cheated because I pre-ordered from Bioware on the strength of their name alone. That was fine for a while, but then their new direction gave use DA II and ME3. I honestly can say that pre-ordering now does not appear to be an attractive thing anymore. I'll probably collect the promo DLC and then wait for a 50% off sale on Origins for Bioware from now on. Maybe.

Many people are not complaining because they didn't like the endings. They complained that a series about choice had a set ending rammed down their throats with different food coloring.

[kbct]

AnttiV wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
I empathize not liking something, but once you make your distaste known then that should be the end of it. I've played many good games with bad endings, but I put it in perspective that is a small part of the game. If I enjoyed it up until then then it was a great game and if it had replayability then I would play it again. You have to ask the opposite if you got the ending you wanted and the rest of the game was bad would that elevate the game to game of the year? Ummm no obviously. So fan demands are based on the premise that over inflates the importance of the ending. You didn't get what you wanted so deal with it like any other disappointment that you have no control over. Move on and let the anger and hate go. You only punish yourself for harboring such negative emotions beyond a reasonable time.

You're presuming your own conclusions. For many fans, myself included, the answer is a very clear yes. That is how much the ending soured the entire experience.

Exactly. And while we're on the subject of the ending making it better and while we're drawing similarities with movies - consider how many movies there are that are mediocre on the whole without their ending, but the ending is something that explains/shocks/makes is all matter and elevates the whole experience to another level. 

There's the Sixth Sense and the infamous "I can see dead people" -pharse. 

And of course couple of classics that really drive that point home: Usual Suspects and Fallen. 

Yeah, I wonder why the movie industry pre-screens films. It's to change the movie if it sucks. A Clockwork Orange changed its ending. Dr. Strangelove changed its ending.

[OdanUrr]

My answer: you're entitled to everything and anything your money is paying for.

Now go figure out exactly what your money's paying for.