183 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, a number of movies have been improved after poor pre-screenings or after they realized the public wouldn't like them. For example, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, First Blood, and Jurassic Park.

Bethesda had success after changing the ending to Fallout 3.

[The Razman]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

That is a fine question but people are taking their inch and trying to stretch it for a mile. BW has always controlled the story and Shepard. They created and breathed life into the character and franchise. It is their right to end things how they want. Gamers do not have a right to write the games and make character changes. If BW caves it will be a blow against any artistic integrity of any media producing company ever. You cannot let the people dictate changes to an already finished IP. Do you get to write your own endings to movies or Tv shows or even change the characters given? Nope. You can have an opinion on disliking the endings and that's fine , but to demand changes and holler and kick a tantrum to get your way is not very mature or sensible. Does BW dictate how you do things in your daily life do they tell you how to do your job at work? No way. You have no right to dictate theirs.

I cannot understand the hate people going it was great until the final ten minutes so this game is trash? So your last bite of lasagna wasn't as piping hot and maybe a little watery from sitting does that make the meal less satisfying? Are you going to never touch lasagne again? Of course not. People are going wild with drama and entitlement mentality. They delivered on most accounts a very fine game which is the job we expect companies to do.

Your job is to buy it or not period. If you don't like it fine as all products have the caveat they aren't for everyone. They owe you nothing and they could have ended the series at ME2 if they wanted. Do you want to be so demanding a fan base BW would gladly ditch you? I think it has reached that point. I would not blame them if they turned a deaf ear to fan demands now. They listened and gave things all these years yet that only increased your appetite for more and bolder demands. You are not armchair game designers no matter how much you want to be. Your job is product consumer period. If you don't play the game again that is your loss from self-inflicted wounds.


Fair game is bugs and poor quality of things like graphics , and gameplay and even story critique. Demanding an ending patch is so over the top spoiled-rotten territory. It is fine to give feedback and likes and dislikes but keep a proper perspective. You are demanding what you want and do not care what BW the actual owner/creator desires. That is egotistical by any measure.


I personally would have preferred some other possible endings being available, but I will be cool with their decision to end their franchise , character, and IP how they choose. I intend to buy it when I have the means to do so. The author has all the rights of creation and that is the natural order of things. Yes I have read in detail the endings so I know what is in store for my playthroughs. Still doesn't dent my desire to play ME 3 in the least.


I empathize not liking something, but once you make your distaste known then that should be the end of it. I've played many good games with bad endings, but I put it in perspective that is a small part of the game. If I enjoyed it up until then then it was a great game and if it had replayability then I would play it again. You have to ask the opposite if you got the ending you wanted and the rest of the game was bad would that elevate the game to game of the year? Ummm no obviously. So fan demands are based on the premise that over inflates the importance of the ending. You didn't get what you wanted so deal with it like any other disappointment that you have no control over. Move on and let the anger and hate go. You only punish yourself for harboring such negative emotions beyond a reasonable time.


ME 3 was a product of many hours of work by many dedicated people and we shouldn't lose sight of that. They are fellow humans with feelings like anyone and to see people trash their hard work because you didn't get what you wanted is a head hanging moment. They should be proud of their work. Have you been praising what you liked or spending more time trashing the small part of the game you didn't?

Nearly everyone praises ME3 for being incredible. They simply hate how the way the game is resolved is nowhere near what was promised to them, not to mention that it makes all the player's choices made in each playthrough virtually irrelevant. We also have tons of these types of threads already.

Nothing was ever "promised" to them. Most people seem to have built up wild expectations in their head and then are blaming Bioware for not meeting them.

[Dougy Fresh]

Bottom line is, this ending will be more memorable than sunshine and rainbows.

I personally have been flipping back and forth about this ending.

It's not one i'll ever forget that's for certain. People are upset because you control the direction of the game 1-3. Then at the end reality hits you in the face, and people didn't know how to deal with it. Suddenly all control of the story is taken from you. It was very bold of bioware.

That's all I will say

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, a number of movies have been improved after poor pre-screenings or after they realized the public wouldn't like them. For example, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, First Blood, and Jurassic Park.

Bethesda had success after changing the ending to Fallout 3.

That was the company, business or developers choice to improve their product but the customers in those instances were not entitled to have such. 

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, a number of movies have been improved after poor pre-screenings or after they realized the public wouldn't like them. For example, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, First Blood, and Jurassic Park.

Bethesda had success after changing the ending to Fallout 3.

That was the company, business or developers choice to improve their product but the customers in those instances were not entitled to have such. 

We aren't entitled to a new ending but we can ask for one.

[Il Divo]

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, it would.

[The Razman]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, a number of movies have been improved after poor pre-screenings or after they realized the public wouldn't like them. For example, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, First Blood, and Jurassic Park.

Bethesda had success after changing the ending to Fallout 3.

That was the company, business or developers choice to improve their product but the customers in those instances were not entitled to have such. 

We aren't entitled to a new ending but we can ask for one.

Yes. The petitions and harrassment campaigns are "asking".

[Il Divo]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, a number of movies have been improved after poor pre-screenings or after they realized the public wouldn't like them. For example, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, First Blood, and Jurassic Park.

Bethesda had success after changing the ending to Fallout 3.

That was the company, business or developers choice to improve their product but the customers in those instances were not entitled to have such. 

It's not about entitlement. A company uses its product to coerce sales from its customers. This is what we saw with the Prothean dlc. Company creates product for a set price. Here, the process is merely working in reverse. Customers are angry, using their money to coerce a product from the company. No one is entitled to anything.

Modifié par Il Divo, 13 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[Reorte]

AudioCGlive wrote...

Gamers think they are entitled to a whole lot of things, the truth is, they are not.

You are entitled to a fuctioning product. IE; It runs, its playable, its features work.

And thats it.

No really, thats it.

Your options are to buy it, or not, period. (seriously, thats what it is, there is no recourse for anything else, period.)

To all the doomsayers trying to put this game (ME3) as "it will cost them customers", sorry to tell you, but ME3 is Biowares fastest selling game to date, and is on its way to being its best selling title ever. (and this is right after DA2, where, yup, you guessed it, the EXACT same thing was said....)

I dunno where the hate is coming from for ME3, personally I rate it as the best game to come out this year by FAR, but hey, thats just me ;p.

You are entitled to get what you expected to get, as long as your expectations are reasonable. Whilst that obviously includes no game-breaking bugs I would argue that you'd have good reason to demand more if the game met all the promised features but only took half an hour to complete (unless it only cost 50p). Remember we're talking beyond simply black-and-white legality here too (which will vary from country to country anyway).

A game (or book, or film) in a series is massively different from, say, a piece of music. You'll almost certainly listen to an album before deciding whether to buy it or not. Games will sell on the basis of the previous one. ME3 is largely a big seller because ME2 was. How well ME3 is selling at present is a very poor measure of anything much. How well DLC sells will be a much better indicator. How well the next game sells that isn't part of an ongoing franchise will be bigger still.

I also think there are other considerations. One of Mass Effect's biggest strengths is how it manages to achieve a good level of emotional engagement. Are you morally entitled to something from someone who makes an effort to emotionally engage you only to end up hurting you, even if it's all a commercial relationship?

[Mr Indivisible]

This isn't about entitlement, its about asking for something better.

Its kinda funny how all protests are always told "stop being so entitled", weak response.

[Volus Warlord]

The Razman wrote...


Yes. The petitions and harrassment campaigns are "asking".

Rofl. 

Heplergate was a harassment campaign. This is just a bunch of over dramatic whiners. 

[kbct]

The Razman wrote...

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

You are not entitled to a new ending if you don't like the old one

If you don't like the way a movie ends would this type of conduct be appropriate? no

Actually, a number of movies have been improved after poor pre-screenings or after they realized the public wouldn't like them. For example, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, First Blood, and Jurassic Park.

Bethesda had success after changing the ending to Fallout 3.

That was the company, business or developers choice to improve their product but the customers in those instances were not entitled to have such. 

We aren't entitled to a new ending but we can ask for one.

Yes. The petitions and harrassment campaigns are "asking".

I'm asking. Lots of others are asking too. Don't paint everyone with the "entitlement" brush.

[Reorte]

The Razman wrote...

kbct wrote...

We aren't entitled to a new ending but we can ask for one.

Yes. The petitions and harrassment campaigns are "asking".

Petitions are certainly just asking. Why on earth would there be a problem with that? And I've not seen any harrassment campaigns, no-one screaming abuse at BW employees and their families, which would be utterly unacceptable.

[Sundance31us]

OP I agree entirely.

[TuringPoint]

Thanks for your contrasting opinion, OP.  

I agree, mostly, that the ending is fine.   I disagree on a few small points.  

I believe it may be possible for Bioware to come up with an ending that addresses what people expected a little bit better without retconning the ending they originally made.  To some extent, though - this is just another event in gaming where people were given unreasonable expectations that the developer could/would never pull off.

Modifié par Alocormin, 13 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[CmonCmon]

I'm sure entitled to be able to get the best ending when I've compeleted all the sidequests throughout 3 games without playing multiplayer...but it's not possible.

[TuringPoint]

CmonCmon wrote...

I'm sure entitled to be able to get the best ending when I've compeleted all the sidequests throughout 3 games without playing multiplayer...but it's not possible.

Yes, they lied about this.  (if I'm understanding how big the EMS number needs to be to get all possible endings)

Modifié par Alocormin, 13 mars 2012 - 07:21 .

[WizenSlinky0]

*rolls eyes* Oh come on. I'm about as rational as you can get on this topic. As good as some sort of ending change/addition/subtraction would be there's no reason to expect one. But if some of the people throwing around "entitlement" had their way our governments would walk all over us because we're not "entitled" to freedom of speech or "entitled" to be treated equally as human beings (even though we legally are at this point, it's hypothetical).

It's the same principle. If you don't like something you protest it. That doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. It just means it matters enough to you to try and implement change. Petitions are a form of protest and one of the very few methods people have avaliable to get a mass of opinions concentrated on one point. It certainly is just asking.

Very few people here feel entitled to a new anything. They just recognize that when a consumer sits back and loses their voice they get stomped on. At the very least they're hoping Bioware takes all of this into consideration with future games.

Throw around the word entitlement if you must but I'd suggest actually reading dissenting views rather than cherry picking a few of the crazy ones. The funny thing is the vast majority of us ARE entitled to voice our opinions. And that is exactly the entitlement most are using here.

With that said as unsatisfying as the endings are I don't have enough faith in the business world to actually care. So other than calling out illogical posts on both sides I don't particularly expect any change to come from the outrage.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 13 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Cinnabar6]

Loved ending I got.

Similar circumstances in other dramatic and literate works make me hope that maybe we are not a species of self-centered, self-indulgent, self-rightous prats - RL news reports notwithstanding.

Loved the nuances that come in from all the previous games. Re-playing with different Shepard to see what I can do differently to achieve something different.

Thank you Bioware.

[Dormin]

Cinnabar6 wrote...

Loved ending I got.

Similar circumstances in other dramatic and literate works make me hope that maybe we are not a species of self-centered, self-indulgent, self-rightous prats - RL news reports notwithstanding.

Loved the nuances that come in from all the previous games. Re-playing with different Shepard to see what I can do differently to achieve something different.

Thank you Bioware.

Good luck with your re-play to achieve something different, because last time I checked all your choices in the end amount to jack and ****.

[kbct]

Dormin wrote...

Cinnabar6 wrote...

Loved ending I got.

Similar circumstances in other dramatic and literate works make me hope that maybe we are not a species of self-centered, self-indulgent, self-rightous prats - RL news reports notwithstanding.

Loved the nuances that come in from all the previous games. Re-playing with different Shepard to see what I can do differently to achieve something different.

Thank you Bioware.

Good luck with your re-play to achieve something different, because last time I checked all your choices in the end amount to jack and ****.

And Jack left town. Sorry, had to,

[Farbautisonn]

http://www.neoseeker...effect-3-saves/
"We want the outcomes to be satisfying to the player. That doesn't necessarily mean they're all going to be happy or positive, but they have to be satisfying. Players have to understand that the choices they've been making in this game and in previous have had an impact, and that they're an architect in what happens."

-Did they deliver or did they not deliver? If you advertize that this is the vision for your product and then the product does not deliver said vision or something resembling it, then you have either intentionally or unintentionally mislead your client base. It really is that simple.