53 réponses à ce sujet

[Avissel]

Hainkpe wrote...
I do not see it. I really want to know though. Please would you explain? 

I don't buy into the whole "fake ending" thing (I' a bit of a pessimist you see) But to me IF it were true, and they added some dlc at some point that picked up there and showed that it was all in Shepards head as harbinger, or even TIM tried to indoctrinate you, it would be great because it would be the gaming worlds first real "Twist ending". It's an interesting conept and one I could really get behind. To have that suprise ending moment like old Twilight Zone episodes.

Sadly thats not whats going on here. 

[Arashi_Ookami]

Tonymac wrote...

Even if it was a hallucination, it sucked. The ending sucked. Period. Its a Matrix ripoff.

Maybe Neo never left the Matrix and it was all a dream. Maybe I got ripped off.

Its funny that you mention that because I had assumend the synthesis ending was a rip off of Battlestar Galatica only fail.

[Swiftz0r]

I honestly think that there has to be something that were missing here, something in these endings thats not coming together. Yea, I hated the endings, so much in fact that I'm debating about trading ME3 in, and I have a STRICT no trade-ins policy ( I don't even trade in games that I bought and never play). But I am with Luigitornado here, if they say that the entirety of the ME games were a hallucination after Eden Prime I would NEVER buy another BioWare game. Hell if they say that any of the games were a hallucination I would probably sell all three of them off. Because after putting almost 200 hours into all three games that would be such a rip off.

[Kikaaa]

Swiftz0r wrote...

I honestly think that there has to be something that were missing here, something in these endings thats not coming together. Yea, I hated the endings, so much in fact that I'm debating about trading ME3 in, and I have a STRICT no trade-ins policy ( I don't even trade in games that I bought and never play). But I am with Luigitornado here, if they say that the entirety of the ME games were a hallucination after Eden Prime I would NEVER buy another BioWare game. Hell if they say that any of the games were a hallucination I would probably sell all three of them off. Because after putting almost 200 hours into all three games that would be such a rip off.

All game was an hallucination? What? 
That's not what we're going for. We want the END of mass effect 3 to be an hallucination so that we can get a real ending. Not the whole game, that would be even worst than the ending we got. 

[Swiftz0r]

Kikaaa wrote...

All game was an hallucination? What? 
That's not what we're going for. We want the END of mass effect 3 to be an hallucination so that we can get a real ending. Not the whole game, that would be even worst than the ending we got. 

Yea but thats one of the ideas that I've seen being tossed around on the forums, and my point is if that is the case I'd be pissed.

[bleetman]

Hainkpe wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Personally, because it would turn an unbelievably dumb set of endings into an utterly brilliant one.

I am very curious. How would changing the ending to a hallucination or a process of indoctrination be a brilliant ending? 

I do not see it. I really want to know though. Please would you explain? 

Because it would've unpredictably tested the resolve of the player in a way that depends entirely on their own rationality. It would've given the player the possibility to fail, and fail badly, in a series that has traditionally only allowed that within a combat scenario and not within any of the actual narrative, other than the odd cutscene with no possibility of intervention.

And as far as I'm concerned, it would've been a fairly brave thing to do, too. It certainly wouldn't be a crowd pleaser to end the series with a possibly indoctrinated Shepard, just because the player faultered from their goal at the last minute. Which is, unfortunately, why I don't see it ever happening.

[Kikaaa]

Hainkpe wrote...

I've read the hallucinations and indoctrination threads but I don't buy any of them. Simply because if any of those little details that don't make sense and Shepard was hallucinating, then he would also have to be delusional to believe them. This is where I am having difficulty understanding the players points. Hallucinations and delusions are part of psychosis. Meaning, Shepard at that point would be psychotic. Then all the decisions made, all the perceptions we as the player are given, doesn't matter. Shepard is in no state to make those decisions and we can not trust that "reality." Thus throwing everything into question, not just is it a hallucination or indoctrinatinon but what REALLY happened?

Is this the point of the endings for ME3? Was that the take away message? I am not sure and I don't know if anyone, save maybe the writers can clarify that point.

You make some good points there and so does the hallucination thread. However it is all expeculation until someone makes an official comment. Maybe Shepard is really losing his mind through out the game but the ending could also be the last try of the reapers to break shepard. I don't really know I'm just hoping for a better ending and this theory was the one that made more sense to me. 

[Kikaaa]

Swiftz0r wrote...

Kikaaa wrote...

All game was an hallucination? What? 
That's not what we're going for. We want the END of mass effect 3 to be an hallucination so that we can get a real ending. Not the whole game, that would be even worst than the ending we got. 

Yea but thats one of the ideas that I've seen being tossed around on the forums, and my point is if that is the case I'd be pissed.

You wouldn't be alone in that. 

[streamlock]

Hope

[Kikaaa]

streamlock wrote...

Hope

This. 

[Sidra2099]

Kikaaa wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I've read the hallucinations and indoctrination threads but I don't buy any of them. Simply because if any of those little details that don't make sense and Shepard was hallucinating, then he would also have to be delusional to believe them. This is where I am having difficulty understanding the players points. Hallucinations and delusions are part of psychosis. Meaning, Shepard at that point would be psychotic. Then all the decisions made, all the perceptions we as the player are given, doesn't matter. Shepard is in no state to make those decisions and we can not trust that "reality." Thus throwing everything into question, not just is it a hallucination or indoctrinatinon but what REALLY happened?

Is this the point of the endings for ME3? Was that the take away message? I am not sure and I don't know if anyone, save maybe the writers can clarify that point.

You make some good points there and so does the hallucination thread. However it is all expeculation until someone makes an official comment. Maybe Shepard is really losing his mind through out the game but the ending could also be the last try of the reapers to break shepard. I don't really know I'm just hoping for a better ending and this theory was the one that made more sense to me. 

The Indoctrination Theory is really how people cope. It's part people coming together to headcanon and find satisfaction after an unsatisfying ending, part giving suggestions to bioware, and part hoping against all odds. If you buy into it, great! I personally would love to see it implemented by Bioware.

Others are more 'Keep calm and carry on'. ME3 just had a bad ending. It's not the end of the world. Just move on with life, why bother complaining? That's fine.

Some people like the ending, for various reasons. That's fine too. 

In the end, even if they DO implement new endings, I cannot possibly see how that would diminish ANYONE's experience. People who were expecting it rejoice, people who were disappointment are pleasantly surprised, and those who like the old endings get to keep what they like.

Really, if you don't/won't/can't accept another persons view on the issue, trying to demand they 'Explain it to you!' really seems like just picking a fight,

[bleetman]

Hainkpe wrote...

But in a way they did that. They are making the players question Sheaprds rationality. By bringing up hallucinations, delusions such that it is in indoctrination, then they have shown the Reapers as the ultimate winner and that anything Shepard did was for naught. It's a Greek tragedy. There is no taking back earth, there is only the destruction by the Reapers and the reset of civilization. But we can't be for sure. There is no certainty. 

Talk about the the ultimate mind bending gaming experience. Did it really happen? 

Yes, but that's only if it turns out it was a hallucination/indoctrination attempt. At the moment, all we have are theories and speculations that slot into a messy, confused ending.

Perhaps it's just my personal taste. I find ending a 60~ hour trilogy on a "uuuuh, what just happened?" unknown cliffhanger style to be entirely petty, myself.

Modifié par bleetman, 13 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[Swiftz0r]

streamlock wrote...

Hope

That BioWare will fix this, its all we have you know

[Kikaaa]

Sidra2099 wrote...

Kikaaa wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I've read the hallucinations and indoctrination threads but I don't buy any of them. Simply because if any of those little details that don't make sense and Shepard was hallucinating, then he would also have to be delusional to believe them. This is where I am having difficulty understanding the players points. Hallucinations and delusions are part of psychosis. Meaning, Shepard at that point would be psychotic. Then all the decisions made, all the perceptions we as the player are given, doesn't matter. Shepard is in no state to make those decisions and we can not trust that "reality." Thus throwing everything into question, not just is it a hallucination or indoctrinatinon but what REALLY happened?

Is this the point of the endings for ME3? Was that the take away message? I am not sure and I don't know if anyone, save maybe the writers can clarify that point.

You make some good points there and so does the hallucination thread. However it is all expeculation until someone makes an official comment. Maybe Shepard is really losing his mind through out the game but the ending could also be the last try of the reapers to break shepard. I don't really know I'm just hoping for a better ending and this theory was the one that made more sense to me. 

The Indoctrination Theory is really how people cope. It's part people coming together to headcanon and find satisfaction after an unsatisfying ending, part giving suggestions to bioware, and part hoping against all odds. If you buy into it, great! I personally would love to see it implemented by Bioware.

Others are more 'Keep calm and carry on'. ME3 just had a bad ending. It's not the end of the world. Just move on with life, why bother complaining? That's fine.

Some people like the ending, for various reasons. That's fine too. 

In the end, even if they DO implement new endings, I cannot possibly see how that would diminish ANYONE's experience. People who were expecting it rejoice, people who were disappointment are pleasantly surprised, and those who like the old endings get to keep what they like.

Really, if you don't/won't/can't accept another persons view on the issue, trying to demand they 'Explain it to you!' really seems like just picking a fight,

There are way too many people in this forum that don't accept other's point of view (I'm not saying anyone in special).
I just think if someone didn't like something you did and is asking for, let's say the ending DLC, we should just accept it.
I support it, even if I had liked the ending, I wouldn't be against them getting new ones.

[bleetman]

All three endings involve the destruction of galactic society as we knew it. Honestly, if this is just a shoe in to keep the franchise going - and don't even get me started on that if it was - it was an incredibly poor one.

[cachx]

 Yeah, it's just denial.
Expect plenty of crackpot theories and glorified fanfiction to try and escape the sub-par ending.

[Dreogan]

It's simple: it doesn't matter if the endings were a hallucination/indoctrination.They simply aren't endings; they lack falling action, strong storytelling, lack the final bit of character development that makes the point of the trilogy. Without a proper ending, there's no point for the trilogy, let alone Commander Shepard, to even exist.

We came for an ending. What we got was a rushed, hamfisted mess that handwaves not only every decision we made through the series, but the characters we came to like.