Aller au contenu

Photo

Checkmate: Pro-Enders - The Official Support Thread For Creative Risk and Artistic Integrity


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
874 réponses à ce sujet

#1
MintyCool

MintyCool
  • Members
  • 451 messages
Checkmate: Pro-Enders - The Official Support Thread For Creative Risk and Artistic Integrity


Pro-Enders Mission:

We defend creative risk and artistic integrity in all mediums of art.

We feel it's not the public's right to demand that the fiction of the Mass Effect Universe be altered just because they disagree with narratives conclusion. If changes are made to the fiction; we feel the repercussions will send devastating ripples throughout the entire industry.

We support artistic integrity by respecting the Mass Effect narrative in its original entirety.



Continue to check back for more updates, news, and more.

Support Us: A paragraph of logic is not going to change weeks of indoctrination. If you wish to contribute please pm me a link of whatever relevant information you find.


Pro-Ender News:

Pro-Enders claim a major victory today after Bioware Co-founder, Dr. Ray Muzyka confirms the Crucible/Cultural Synthesis narrative will be forever ingrained into the Mass Effect lore.

Dr. Ray Muzyka announced that the Crucible/Cultural Synthesis narrative will receive major updates with future DLC in an attempt to clarify the ending.

With this news's, it's a major blow for Retake Mass Effect as it seems the movement has lost all momentum on all issues concerning the ending.

Dr. Ray Muzyka wrote...
As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.

To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.
The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.
If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.

Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.


More updates soon.



Why We Feel the Ending Works:

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story? No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety; in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.



Retake Mass Effects continued Steps into Complete Absurdity:

Retake Mass Effect Member has filed a FTC Complaint:
http://www.pcmag.com...,2401775,00.asp

Retake Mass Effect Creates Spook Conspiracies Only to further the fringe's Rage:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9727423

The Retake Movement Claims They are "Entitled" to a New Ending:
http://social.biowar...-9909123-1.html

The Retake Movement continues to repeatedly harass game Devs of ME3 over twitter, Facebook, and other social media.

The Retake movement has created a fake PR campaign thread to boost propaganda.

More updates soon.



Industry Supporters of the Ending:

BioShock Creator Ken Levine: http://www.digitalsp...ken-levine.html

Penny Arcades Ben Kuchera:
http://www.penny-arc...the-series-mass

Kotaku: http://www.kotaku.co...ver-be-changed/

IGN: http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1219446p1.html

Colin Moriarty: http://www.ign.com/v...3-opinion-video

ThumbCulture: http://thumb-culture...n-mass-effects/

Destructoid: http://www.destructo...ew-223218.phtml

Daniel Starky: http://www.destructo...wn-223966.phtml

Shack News
: http://www.shacknews...effect-3-review

Garnett Lee: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Jeff Cannata:
http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Game Informer: www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/21/hey-bioware-while-you-39-re-at-it.aspx




More updates soon.

Checkmate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 22 mars 2012 - 12:32 .


#2
Unit-Alpha

Unit-Alpha
  • Members
  • 4 015 messages
Nice formatting. Very professional.

And also, since when has momentum shifted to you? Seriously, if anything it's shifted even more toward us.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 13 mars 2012 - 03:31 .


#3
ninjaNumber1

ninjaNumber1
  • Members
  • 423 messages
lol well good for you because you chose the synthesis ending. But as you might already know, there were another two endings that people could have picked. I invite you to give your analysis on how to make sense of those endings too.

Or is this your way of saying that we should have picked your synthesis ending too?

#4
DemGeth

DemGeth
  • Members
  • 1 657 messages
Nicely written good parallel to Star Wars.

#5
Zolt51

Zolt51
  • Members
  • 1 262 messages
Nailed it. That ending isn't perfect, but it achieves what it set out to do, and is consistent with the themes of the game.
Leaving some points open like the future of the Krogan is a good thing. It makes you think, in a good way. 
Not saying who survived the final battle: less so, but that at least can be realistically addressed.

By the way there is no such thing as momentum. All creative decisions rest with Bioware. If this is a democracy, then the only way you can vote is with your wallet. And you already did, game registered and all.

And honestly, I'm not sure what the "Retake Mass Effect" crowd hopes to achieve. Retcon the whole game? Just show me one way of doing it that's practical and consistent, and a net benefit for Bioware and I'll sign on, but I've yet to see that.

OP however if you want to avoid intense flaming, I suggest you edit out any "momentum is ours" and "we know we are right". That's just not nice, whatever the topic.

Whatever Bioware does, I predict these forums will still be a hotbed of whine 6 months from now.

Modifié par Zolt51, 13 mars 2012 - 03:53 .


#6
MintyCool

MintyCool
  • Members
  • 451 messages

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Nice formatting. Very professional.


Thanks, I try to pin-point my topics.

Modifié par MintyCool, 13 mars 2012 - 04:31 .


#7
TheOptimist

TheOptimist
  • Members
  • 853 messages
http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.

#8
Yuoaman

Yuoaman
  • Members
  • 3 660 messages
I'm sorry, but I disagree. Agreeing with the Reapers is not how I want my Shepard's story to end.

#9
ahtf

ahtf
  • Members
  • 44 messages
The only thing I hate with the ending and what we deserve to get is a ending which explains abit what our choices led to in the galaxy and what happened to our companions. So we deserved a longer ending. Demanding to get exactly the ending you want for shephard is beeing spoiled :P

Modifié par ahtf, 13 mars 2012 - 04:53 .


#10
SpectreN1

SpectreN1
  • Members
  • 46 messages

MintyCool wrote...


Momentum is already shifting to our side, let's finish this...

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third
addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created. 

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game when this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add
anything to the finality of this story? No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy during end game when obviously the focus of the story is being developed on a much different/deeper topic?

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and it's fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations
of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.  

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on
their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.


I enjoyed this game immensly and enjoyed all the different moral conflicts that arise in it, Bioware did a good job in proving a point with this, which qualifies it as a work of art. There is also plenty of closure in the game to show how we (the players) brought peace to the galaxy.

#11
MattFini

MattFini
  • Members
  • 3 571 messages
I demand the ability to avenge Bailey.

#12
MintyCool

MintyCool
  • Members
  • 451 messages

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.


A poll created by a vocal angry minority. Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?  Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.

Modifié par MintyCool, 13 mars 2012 - 05:01 .


#13
mauro2222

mauro2222
  • Members
  • 4 236 messages
"In the end 95 percent of you will continue to fester on this forum and buy the next Bioware product"

You're trying to explain an ending? Or you're trying to retake sales for Bioware?

#14
Deltoran

Deltoran
  • Members
  • 470 messages
From a business standpoint, its not exactly smart to try to weave in major philosophical ideas that a lot of your customers might not understand. Furthermore, all this business about intellectuality and not needing a detailed resolution doesn't make much sense either. Not everyone has a Doctorate in philosophy nor would they want to see the story end in this manner.

I am in no way saying that those of us who want a different ending aren't intelligent enough to understand or appreciate Bioware's 'art', I'm simply saying that culturally, we're not all into the avant garde, thought-provoking, philosophical stuff that Bioware gave us. A lot of movies, books, and other entertainment still end with explanations, happy endings, and only limited plot holes.

If that's what consumers still desire, then, from a business standpoint, it is foolish not to give it to them. In this case especially since its all about 'our choices', and they've already made a lot of promises in that regard.

Modifié par Deltoran, 13 mars 2012 - 05:01 .


#15
mauro2222

mauro2222
  • Members
  • 4 236 messages
And If I recall correctly, the problem are the endings not the game...

And if your opinion is a fact as you put it. Then mine is too, Tali's face was a lazy move, really lazy.

#16
DarkSpider88

DarkSpider88
  • Members
  • 1 504 messages
How can you take back the Citadel if it blew up in all the ending(s)?  :whistle:

Modifié par DarkSpider88, 13 mars 2012 - 05:02 .


#17
Aubairjin

Aubairjin
  • Members
  • 141 messages
We just want to see an end with Shepard, and without plothole. We "know" shepard thanks to the fact we played him for almost 150 hours. And we all know what in the end, even exhausted, he wouldn't bow like this to a f****** brat and agree with the reapers.
A mass effect ending without a "real" shepard isn't a mass effect ending.

#18
pomrink

pomrink
  • Members
  • 1 350 messages
Dont reply to this is you disagree. lets let it die

#19
Deltoran

Deltoran
  • Members
  • 470 messages

MintyCool wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.


A poll created by a vocal angry minority. Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?  Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.


I don't want to rain on your parade here but, while yes, the sampling of that poll may in itself be insignificant, a lot of the same feelings of those pollers are being reflected across the internet.  Not so sure if its just a vocal angry minority...

Modifié par Deltoran, 13 mars 2012 - 05:04 .


#20
Xion66

Xion66
  • Members
  • 305 messages
And yet, a big chunck of all that life, that was interwoven and what-not is stuck in a solar system with no resources to save them all.

After defying fate, fighting and opposing the fate that someone or something wanted for him, Shepard died to accomplish a path set out for him.

That ending, was not the story of Mass Effect, that ending was the easy cop-out.

#21
TheOptimist

TheOptimist
  • Members
  • 853 messages

MintyCool wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.


A poll created by a vocal angry minority. Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?  Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.


Yes, the poll with over 38K votes, each of which are an individually logged on bioware forums member, is insignificant.  Nevermind that it's got 29,000 more votes than any other poll in the history of the site.  Ever.

Compare for instance to this poll on ME 2.

http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/

5K votes and 82% 'not disappointed' by ME 2, which sounds about right.

But keep thinking it's just a few malcontents or a 'prop'.  I'm sure support for your topic is about to come pouring in.  Any second now...

#22
JasonTan87

JasonTan87
  • Members
  • 160 messages

MintyCool wrote...

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.  



You contradict yourself here. 

A detailed resolution is required to sustain the escapist reality.  The lack of a detailed resolution breaks the suspension of disbelief, causing the narrative (and thus the escapist reality) to fail.

This contradiction also consequently causes the remainder of your arguement to fail.

Modifié par JasonTan87, 13 mars 2012 - 05:17 .


#23
Arad-Tzui

Arad-Tzui
  • Members
  • 21 messages
You sound like a first year philosophy major. Frankly, the "grand themes" introduced didn't impress me much. They just sounded preachy. I'm far more interested in the human condition and how these relationships evolve, and seeing that my actions lead somewhere. As is, the whole overly theme of causality and being able to shape the universe by your actions, taking an active part in it all, is entirely lost as the final mission and onward entirely disregards your past actions.

ps. This is to say that the philosophical themes are very basic concepts, and what the series had been doing previously actually seems far more sophisticated, f.ex. I've stood hard and fast behind my belief in Isaiah Berlin's concept of negative freedom throughout my playthroughs, and have thus opposed any attempts by the Salarians to oppress the Krogan and the Quarians attempts at denying the Geth their right to selfdetermination.

Modifié par Arad-Tzui, 13 mars 2012 - 05:18 .


#24
MintyCool

MintyCool
  • Members
  • 451 messages

Deltoran wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.


A poll created by a vocal angry minority. Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?  Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.


I don't want to rain on your parade here but, while yes, the sampling of that poll may in itself be insignificant, a lot of the same feelings of those pollers are being reflected across the internet.  Not so sure if its just a vocal angry minority...


The most dedicated of fan will often float to a niche pool
that is similar to their interest. The percentage is quite miniscule when compared
to the entire fan base that bought the game. This is why you will see zero
changes to the End Game, and thoughts of change are just pure naiveté.

What we are seeing is the political equivalent to the Occupy
crowd. A vocal minority that will be ignored by the silent majority.

Harsh...maybe. True? Absolutely.


Xion66 wrote...

And yet, a big chunck of all that life,
that was interwoven and what-not is stuck in a solar system with no
resources to save them all.

After defying fate, fighting and
opposing the fate that someone or something wanted for him, Shepard died
to accomplish a path set out for him.

That ending, was not the story of Mass Effect, that ending was the easy cop-out.



The themes and structures of how this iteration was built proves otherwise.  

Modifié par MintyCool, 13 mars 2012 - 05:18 .


#25
Helnos

Helnos
  • Members
  • 32 messages

MintyCool wrote...


wall of text



I'm with you on the escapism/medichlorians stuff.....

I understood what they were trying to do..... it's deep, touching stuff, well written and it blows me away.

however... and i mean HOWEVER! The choices YOU make the path you take, weather you allow the geth to obliterate the quarians etc etc were supposed to dictate an endgame, a path we took and a relevent ending.

What people are upset about is that NONE OF IT MATTERS

So long as you can make it to the end of the game you get a choice of 3 endings you pick A, B or C

There IS no causality thats the problem!