873 réponses à ce sujet

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

I'm Commander Shepard and the ME3 ending is my favorite ending on the Citadel!

[iorveth1271]

HenchxNarf wrote...

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

created 8 days ago, and less than 200 posts. Welcome to the real minority.

Except that Bioware called you guys the very vocal minority.

Welcome to reality.

You didn't listen... *sigh*

Bioware, as it just today confirmed, calls those insulting members of the board personally, employees of Bioware personally or just generally offer nothing but destructive criticism the "vocal" minority. The RetakeME3 movement itself was never called "vocal" minority by Bioware.

[Dridengx]

Larkas Galanodel wrote...
Really, I can't decide if this person is a troll, delusional or simply an attention ****.

Well, don't hurt yourself but if you can think for a second, ask yourself does it matter? If you do not share the same opinion you shouldn't have to worry about their intentions anyway

Modifié par Dridengx, 22 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[Solduri]

[quote]Drak41n wrote...


in·teg·ri·ty

noun
1.
adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2.
the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3.
a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.

[quote]Official Mass Effect Website

http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience
the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other,
where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and
outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m
always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one
of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There
are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could
you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be
forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any
more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll
get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot
threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since
you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will
definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made
and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For
people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans
want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some
closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass
Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore,
learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being
able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer:
[Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:
“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass
Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for
Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of
course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all
the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get
all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different
way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The
whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions,
about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to
end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what
civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered
in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There
is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach
the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to
break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game
ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few
things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays
it.”[/quote][/quote]

[FataliTensei]

I understand wanting support if you liked the endings but the OP is insulting, rude and frankly off on alot of points. I'm sorry honey but you don't put an ad for DLC at the end of 'art'.

[CavScout]

nhsknudsen wrote...

CavScout wrote...

JasonC Shepard wrote...
Now I have a question about the Original Post, if you would like to answer it.
Why is Mass Effect 3 "art"?

The same reason books and movies are.

You don't interact with books and movies altering different rather important story lines.

Interactivity doesn't negate art.... I can watch a blue ray with the ability to change camera angles or scenes, does this mean the movie ceases to be art?

[beyzend]

well at first I was all for artistic control. but now I"m on the fence because **** EA basically. I bet EA rushed the game in their quest for bull****. I mean I like the MP. Problem with that is it takes time away from making the game better. But then again people have to look out for their bottom line. I guess you can't have you cake and eat it too. Tis the way the world works.

[crimzontearz]

reporting this thread sounds good

[aliengmr1]

HenchxNarf wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Dont reply to this is you disagree. lets let it die

So it's okay that your side makes a heckton of threads a day explaining the same thing over and over. But once someone posts a pro-ending thread you act like this.

And people tell me I 'm wrong when I say the movement is immature. This proves me right, and anyone else trolling this thread proves me right.

As for the OP, sign me up. I'm with you all the way. And that was very nicely written out.

Problem is you stand for nothing except a counter to retake. Point of fact, you want the fanbase of all game not to have a voice. Go ahead, preach how games are Art and that you have no right to an opinion. Irony is that if you believe this you shouldn't be posting.

[The Night Mammoth]

CavScout wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

Yeah, go and show when that has actually happened.

Pretty much any Indoctrination Theory thread where someone challenges the premise.

That's not quite what I said, or asked. Not that what you said wasn't correct, although the Indoc. Theory is just as bad, it's entire premise is questionable. What I mean is, there are plenty of people trying to present some sort of reasoned argument for the endings, but saying that no one tries to refute them is wrong. Every time someone tries they are questioned repeatedly, because explaning the endings requires a monumental leap of faith.

[111987]

I think everyone on both sides should keep things in perspective...

This is just a video game, after all. Obviously all of us are big fans, because we're here, but ultimately, it's just a game. No need for anyone to get TOO upset.

Even if you didn't get the ending you wanted, you must surely realize you did get your dollars worth in terms of pure content. And if you did get the ending you wanted, there's nothing wrong with people expressing their desire for an improved ending. After all, an improved ending benefits everybody, does it not?

[RiouHotaru]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Yeah, go and show when that has actually happened. Every time someone tries to make an argument for why the endings "make sense" they get shot down by some simple logic. That and because using baseless speculation to fil your plot holes, and explain away literary taboos and thematic contradictions isn't exactly a successful way to prove a point. 

"Simple logic"?  You mean the baseless speculation that everyone starves to death or the Normandy starts an incestuous colony, none of which is grounded in any more hard evidence than the "baseless speculation" that people like me use when we claim everything will turn out okay?

Also, a lot of your "simple logic" only works because there's no context.  Saying the Catalyst's motive is nonseniscal is only true because we don't know the underlying reason why.  What caused the Catalyst to come to that conclusion?  What events brought about the Catalyst in the first place?  What was the first race of the cycle?  What sort of people were they like?  What did they do?

There are questions that don't have answers which, if they did, would cause the finale to make much more sense.  Also, even based on the already existing information, the Catalyst's motives aren't completely out of left field, nor is the fact you can't argue the point with him a problem either.

[ShepnTali]

This was the perfect storm. Nothing more, nothing less. It was organic, and unique. I doubt it becomes the norm.

[Tyrzun]

It's easy to debunk all of that with Bioware's own words.

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

What they said we were getting didn't happened. in fact the opposite did.

Starting at the top Walters said the Rachni would have a huge impact even in the last battle. A statistical EMS number that means nothing at all. Once over 4000 no added numbers mean a thing. That's just one example of a slew listed above directly from Bioware.

False advertising - CHECKMATE

[Felene]

FALSE ADVERTISING =/= artistic integrity

1/10

[JasonC Shepard]

nhsknudsen wrote...

CavScout wrote...

JasonC Shepard wrote...
Now I have a question about the Original Post, if you would like to answer it.
Why is Mass Effect 3 "art"?

The same reason books and movies are.

You don't interact with books and movies altering different rather important story lines.

CavScout does have a good point, however.  Art is visual media.  Mass Effect 3 is visual media.
When talking about artistic integrity, I have another question.
Why defend the game's artistic integrity when it already degrades itself by asking us to take part in more gameplay and buy more DLC?

[ticklefist]

Was responding to old crap. Deleted.

Modifié par ticklefist, 22 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[MintyCool]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Okay, so the OP responded with everybody that pat him in the back, but to none of the people questioning his arguments. I guess that tells me all I need to know.

When I take part in a discussion I try to be civil and eloquent. I apologize for not responding; but at the moment I have Retake members bashing me and then flooding my inbox with spam and threats. I will try to answer your questions tonight when I'm home from work.

Bear with me, Thank you.

Modifié par MintyCool, 22 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[iorveth1271]

CavScout wrote...

nhsknudsen wrote...

CavScout wrote...

JasonC Shepard wrote...
Now I have a question about the Original Post, if you would like to answer it.
Why is Mass Effect 3 "art"?

The same reason books and movies are.

You don't interact with books and movies altering different rather important story lines.

Interactivity doesn't negate art.... I can watch a blue ray with the ability to change camera angles or scenes, does this mean the movie ceases to be art?

As soon as the creators of Mass Effect, including its story writer, call themselves "co-creators" of their game and the fans the actual architects of the story, Bioware is giving up its artistic integrity. I'm not saying Mass Effect as such is not art (don't see why it should not be art and how that even matters) but whether it is art or not doesn't mean we can't ask for a bit of closure.

So long

[Skyblade012]

MintyCool wrote...

Why We Feel the Ending Works:

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

 
How is that a point explaining why the endings "work"?  That's just a description of one of them.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

Completely wrong.  There was no "philosophical debate".  You were presented with a philosophical statement, and FORCED to accept it as fact.  The Created always fight the Creators.  Period.  There is no debate, because there is no arguing with it.

The series has brought up philosophy before, and actually let the players think about it and decide what is true on their own.  Here, there is no option.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

Which is a radical thematic shift that doesn't fit the rest of the story, completing ignores the parts of the game that would have an impact on such an "elevated dynamic", and, again, allows for no exploration or choice.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story? No.

None of the ending themes tied to the rest of the game's themes, so it was not a solid narrative.

We like philosophy in Mass Effect.  People LOVED the rewrite/destroy question about the geth in ME2.  Why?  Because we got to consider the philosophy on our own.  We got to develop and act on our own thoughts on the philosophy.  Not simply be told "this is true, live with it".

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

Which is precisely why people are wondering why they explained the Reaper's motives, when they were supposed to be "beyond our understanding".

Certain things need to be explained, and others should be left alone, yes.  BioWare just got the two completely switched.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety; in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.

Mass Effect as a story was thematically about the unification of diverse groups to face a single goal.  From your own team, to eventually entire cultures.  It was about balancing strengths versus weaknesses.  About the interplay between cultures, how they clash, and how to convince and coerce them to work together.

The ending (or, rather, the one ending you seem to think synthesis is the only one) is about removal of the differences completely.  Homogenization rather than unity.  Destroying what makes us unique and interesting, rather than working to find out how to integrate the differences.

Direct contrast to the rest of the games' themes.


CHECKMATE

[Mr Indivisible]

Two things I find amusing about the pro-ending crowd:

1. They don't want us to have additional endings, at worst more variety to the endings (and at best, a whole new chapter!) means more re-playability, and potentially extra content.

2. They defend artistic integrity in a medium that is purely interactive, TV is not, Paintings are not, Books are not. Games are a fully interactive experience, start to finish, and as such involve the end user (note its called user) in its world and creative process. Why shouldn't we have input? (Even non-interactive mediums have input from the public, seriously here guys)

[RiouHotaru]

longlun wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Thank god, a place where the pro-enders can gather. I was starting to feel a bit like a stranger in a hostile country. Here. And it's good that you can provide a place for people like myself to get our message out as well.

If the Retake movement can claim that they're important and that they should be heard, then there's no reasons the Pro-Enders can't be heard as well.

We're just as important.

^

No one says you're not important.

You're just wrong.

And you're not right, either.

[Tyrzun]

MintyCool wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Okay, so the OP responded with everybody that pat him in the back, but to none of the people questioning his arguments. I guess that tells me all I need to know.

When I take part in a discussion I try to be civil and eloquent. I apologize, but at the moment I have Retake members bashing me and then flooding my inbox with spam and threats. I will try to answer your questions tonight when I'm home from work.

Bear with me, Thank you.

If they are threatening you report them.  Seriously.  That's unacceptable.

[Turtlicious]

MintyCool wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Okay, so the OP responded with everybody that pat him in the back, but to none of the people questioning his arguments. I guess that tells me all I need to know.

When I take part in a discussion I try to be civil and eloquent. I apologize, but at the moment I have Retake members bashing me and then flooding my inbox with spam and threats. I will try to answer your questions tonight when I'm home from work.

Bear with me, Thank you.

MintyCool, I'd like to give you a platform for you to speak your message, I sent you a PM about a podcast done on the Retake Mass Effect Movement, respond at your leisure.

[III Mav III]

There are some seriously hypocritical people here...whenever someone tries to support the ending in our retake thread they are shot down, they have poll stats rammed down there throat and told to go away, now the people who love the ending make a thread and we have people belittling there opinion it is a disgrace...

Our opinion that the endings suck is not THE opinion it is A opinion, let the people who love the ending have there thread, leave them alone and at least we can get a balanced opinion in this forum cos god help us that we drown them out at the moment...

Modifié par III Mav III, 22 mars 2012 - 01:01 .