873 réponses à ce sujet

[ticklefist]

OK fine. We don't have a right to ask people to change the ending. Fine. We have the right to wave money in their face though. Now which do you think matters more to your precious artists?

[CavScout]

pomrink wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

I'm sorry, but this entire thing simply feels like arguing for the sake of arguing. If there is DLC which adds to or creates the possibility of new endings, and you don't care for it...

Don't. Install. The DLC.

It's really just that easy.

Let test that premise: If you don't like the games endings and you don't care for them...
Don't. Install. The Game.

Was it really just that easy?

That argument is invalid. The game was already purchased.

Oh really? How will one know they won't like the DLC without purchasing it then?

[HenchxNarf]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Dont reply to this is you disagree. lets let it die

So it's okay that your side makes a heckton of threads a day explaining the same thing over and over. But once someone posts a pro-ending thread you act like this.

And people tell me I 'm wrong when I say the movement is immature. This proves me right, and anyone else trolling this thread proves me right.

As for the OP, sign me up. I'm with you all the way. And that was very nicely written out.

Problem is you stand for nothing except a counter to retake. Point of fact, you want the fanbase of all game not to have a voice. Go ahead, preach how games are Art and that you have no right to an opinion. Irony is that if you believe this you shouldn't be posting.

Actually, I stand for them not to give the lot of you a damn thing. I stand for Bioware not changing something because a minority of the fans whine about not liking something. I stand for the ones who like the ending and gets needlessly trolled and flamed right off the boards for having an opinion other than yours.

You have no right to demand them change it, no. And I will stick by that.

Consumer's rights be damned, you don't deserve choice! You're a minority, the IGN poll says so!

Question, what does that make the Pro-ending people then? A stupid small minority? 

Let me spell this out for you, sweetie. Just because you paid for a game, it does not give you the right to demand it be changed just because you didn't like it. Return the game, sell it, whatever if you don't like it. But you have NO RIGHT to demand a company change something. And yes, adding DLC would ruin the game. Because it would change the vision they had for the way they wanted the story to end.

[CavScout]

JasonC Shepard wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You're presuming an artist advertising his art is no longer an artist. It is simply a false premise. Nothing wrong with an artist promoting their art.

Edit to add: Art is not limited to the visual medium... Beethoven would have an issue with that.

I'm not saying he/she is no longer an artist.  I'm just saying why defend their integrity if they degrade it on their own?
EDIT:  I'm sorry, I meant to say that visual media was one of the forms of art.

Again you are presuming that artists who promote their art are somehow degrading it. The premise is false.

[HenchxNarf]

ticklefist wrote...

OK fine. We don't have a right to ask people to change the ending. Fine. We have the right to wave money in their face though. Now which do you think matters more to your precious artists?

I'm pretty sure 50,000 won't make EA bat an eyelash about sales. You all could not buy anything from them and it wouldn't make a difference. 3.5+ Million people bought the game. 50k is nothing.

[Fail_Inc]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Adanu wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

I understand wanting support if you liked the endings but the OP is insulting, rude and frankly off on alot of points. I'm sorry honey but you don't put an ad for DLC at the end of 'art'.

Welcome to how it feels with your lynch mobs on the forum. You people have trolled and insulted and threatened and belittled for WEEKS without any real moderation.

The second I saw this thread I knew all the dislikers would pounce and go on an insulting spree. Showing your true colors is sad.

I know. But they're oh so civil, you know. They don't attack anyone.

Right.

Because everyone else is so much different right?

Seriously people this is internet, things like this happen all the time .
At the end of the day you'll surely find some nut-job threatening you for... making cupcakes or combing your hair. This is not new and it doesn't prove anything.

[iorveth1271]

HenchxNarf wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Dont reply to this is you disagree. lets let it die

So it's okay that your side makes a heckton of threads a day explaining the same thing over and over. But once someone posts a pro-ending thread you act like this.

And people tell me I 'm wrong when I say the movement is immature. This proves me right, and anyone else trolling this thread proves me right.

As for the OP, sign me up. I'm with you all the way. And that was very nicely written out.

Problem is you stand for nothing except a counter to retake. Point of fact, you want the fanbase of all game not to have a voice. Go ahead, preach how games are Art and that you have no right to an opinion. Irony is that if you believe this you shouldn't be posting.

Actually, I stand for them not to give the lot of you a damn thing. I stand for Bioware not changing something because a minority of the fans whine about not liking something. I stand for the ones who like the ending and gets needlessly trolled and flamed right off the boards for having an opinion other than yours.

You have no right to demand them change it, no. And I will stick by that.

So far nobody demands anything. All we ASK is that Bioware listens and addresses some of the issues that came up with the ending and let us be honest - if there were no issues with the current endings, nobody would be complaining. We do not demand anything, we ask that Bioware listens - to either side.

[W1BBY]

MintyCool wrote...


This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. 

I paid over $80 for the Mass Effect 3 Collector's Edition. I was told by the developers that the ending would not be ambiguous, among other unkept promises. It's "entirely unhealthy" for me as a consumer to critique what I bought with my hard-earned money? Under that logic, I shouldn't demand that a brand-new car that I bought with a steering wheel that doesn't turn to be fixed or replaced becuase that would insult the artistic integrity of the people that made the car. And if you don't believe that artistic integrity can apply to vehicles, then either you don't know what avant-garde means, or you are appyling a double-standard.

It's a right of the consumer to demand a better product. Maybe their complaints will go unheeded, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't try.

Modifié par W1BBY, 22 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[The Night Mammoth]

CavScout wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

I'm sorry, but this entire thing simply feels like arguing for the sake of arguing. If there is DLC which adds to or creates the possibility of new endings, and you don't care for it...

Don't. Install. The DLC.

It's really just that easy.

Let test that premise: If you don't like the games endings and you don't care for them...
Don't. Install. The Game.

Was it really just that easy?

I like most of the game. I hate the ending. I've spent money on this. I care for its quality. I care for Bioware's image. I care for our rights as consumers. I hate shoddy products. I despise the "artistic integrity" argument. 

Therefore, I will keep the game, and play it. I refuse to play the endings however, and will criticize them at my pleasure.

Of course, every discussion builds from the automatic assumption that you have the game.

[Zofiya]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Also, a lot of your "simple logic" only works because there's no context.  Saying the Catalyst's motive is nonseniscal is only true because we don't know the underlying reason why.  What caused the Catalyst to come to that conclusion?  What events brought about the Catalyst in the first place?  What was the first race of the cycle?  What sort of people were they like?  What did they do?

There are questions that don't have answers which, if they did, would cause the finale to make much more sense.  Also, even based on the already existing information, the Catalyst's motives aren't completely out of left field, nor is the fact you can't argue the point with him a problem either.

(emphasis mine)

A lot of people find the lack of context, the insufficient explanation, and the nonsensicality of the provided "answers" to be one of the root problems with the ending as it is. Yes, it is a problem that we can't argue the point with Star Child; it is a problem that so many questions are raised without resolution; it is a problem that so many details are left to speculation, and therefore there is no sense of closure.

[ticklefist]

HenchxNarf wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

OK fine. We don't have a right to ask people to change the ending. Fine. We have the right to wave money in their face though. Now which do you think matters more to your precious artists?

I'm pretty sure 50,000 won't make EA bat an eyelash about sales. You all could not buy anything from them and it wouldn't make a difference. 3.5+ Million people bought the game. 50k is nothing.

Too bad you're not pretty sure it's 50,000.

[Mr Indivisible]

HenchxNarf wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Dont reply to this is you disagree. lets let it die

So it's okay that your side makes a heckton of threads a day explaining the same thing over and over. But once someone posts a pro-ending thread you act like this.

And people tell me I 'm wrong when I say the movement is immature. This proves me right, and anyone else trolling this thread proves me right.

As for the OP, sign me up. I'm with you all the way. And that was very nicely written out.

Problem is you stand for nothing except a counter to retake. Point of fact, you want the fanbase of all game not to have a voice. Go ahead, preach how games are Art and that you have no right to an opinion. Irony is that if you believe this you shouldn't be posting.

Actually, I stand for them not to give the lot of you a damn thing. I stand for Bioware not changing something because a minority of the fans whine about not liking something. I stand for the ones who like the ending and gets needlessly trolled and flamed right off the boards for having an opinion other than yours.

You have no right to demand them change it, no. And I will stick by that.

Consumer's rights be damned, you don't deserve choice! You're a minority, the IGN poll says so!

Question, what does that make the Pro-ending people then? A stupid small minority? 

Let me spell this out for you, sweetie. Just because you paid for a game, it does not give you the right to demand it be changed just because you didn't like it. Return the game, sell it, whatever if you don't like it. But you have NO RIGHT to demand a company change something. And yes, adding DLC would ruin the game. Because it would change the vision they had for the way they wanted the story to end.

You realise you just destroyed your point by saying sweetie, accomplishing nothing but trolling?

[Thompson family]

ticklefist

Great sig.

[DarkSpider88]

@OP

You do know that Checkmate is also an evil agency in DC comics... food for thought.

[wasawsolos]

I've been thinking about this a lot. For me, it seems the ending is geared toward those who are good at interpreting philosophical meanings. From an English major's standpoint, I can see where the ending could work. I really do. But, it just didn't work for me. I have a difficult time understanding philosophical meanings, and sometimes I need things clarified. I joined the retake movement to try to get these clarifications. Some of the members take things too far and say hurtful words that are meant to cause pain. But some of us just need clarity that DLC can easily provide. Personally, I am not petitioning to change the endings. I just need someone from BioWare to clarify the massive plot holes that do not seem to fit into the story, because as of right now, I feel cheated and I am dissatisfied with my purchase.

[Joush]

Bad word of mouth is hurting sales, however. And the game is overall getting negative press among the core fan base. EA certainly isn't happy with the damage being done to the IP's value by the overwhelmingly negative response to the ending.

[HenchxNarf]

ticklefist wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

OK fine. We don't have a right to ask people to change the ending. Fine. We have the right to wave money in their face though. Now which do you think matters more to your precious artists?

I'm pretty sure 50,000 won't make EA bat an eyelash about sales. You all could not buy anything from them and it wouldn't make a difference. 3.5+ Million people bought the game. 50k is nothing.

Too bad you're not pretty sure it's 50,000.

Even if it was more, it's a fraction of the sales.

[Mad-Hamlet]

No, no, no, let them speak. The Pro-Enders (Not to be confused with the Pro-Enders, supporters of Ender Wiggins, Xenoicide Extraordinaire) should speak, supported in their speech and praised for their commitment to what they value...whatever that is as I have no intention of listing to anything they have to say.
Their is greatness in diversity; complexity in form, grace in friction and difference. Options palpitate beneath the surface of reality waiting to blossom forth in a cornucopia of colors, a complete spectrum of possibility. The entire hue of choice like...red, blue and green...and the rest too, should be valued. (You see what I did there? I saw what I did there. Yeah, I went there)

I actually don't understand any of their objections but that's fine- though it sounds like if they ever buy a car and it's a lemon they have to take it to preserve manufacturers' integrity. I don't get it, not even a little but I accept it.

I'm just not changing my mind.

[Joush]

We aren't demanding it be changed. It's a strongly worded request and suggestion. EA has every right to ignore it. But claiming it's 'artistic license' is a bad idea.

The existing ending fails from game play, narrative and artistic standpoints. It's a mess. Refusing to change that means that every mention of the game, no matter what else you'd like to say about it, has to include "but the ending is awful".

[leondes1]

MakeMineMako wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Pro-Enders Update:

Thank you for the continued flow of support/links through pm. Yes, I know I'm being attacked by Retake and will respond in due time. A paragraph of logic is not going to change weeks of indoctrination. They do this because they feel threatened. Right now just updating the links you sent me. Continue to pm me any information you find.

The industry, public, and momentum is on our side.

Industry Support Update:

Game Informer: www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/21/hey-bioware-while-you-39-re-at-it.aspx

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

What else to you expect from trolls?

And yes, the OP is a troll, judging from another post in another thread. I do not believe that he/she is attempting to present their case with the goal of making their voice heard. They are simply attempting to start a shi*tstorm under the guise of making the pro-ender stance heard.

From trolls, a lot more to be honest. Just walk away. Get back to the line and ingore this sad attempt to change our views and create a "movement" where one does not exist.

Stanley if your looking at this trend, think about it.....

The line will be held, and this trend of lies will not change that. No one is winning here. We are not "they" 

And as for the thing about the industry and public on "your side" troll, please quit your lies. Anyone can look online an see articles from forbes, gamefront, and more along with videos from angryjoe, 
Jeremy Jahns , and others that DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR "SIDE" "They" are part of the "industry" too.

Being blind to other people's articles and videos against the ending does not in fact validate your troll claims that the public and the industry is on "your" side. That's all inside your own egotistical world, which is not reality.

They are not all on anyone's side. This ending issue is a VALID issue that needs to be addressed. It is not to be won by one side. It is meant to be discussed and that is the beauty of it.

Lastly, do I feel threatened by you? Heck no and nor should anyone in retake. There are some who cannot be civil about this, but I can. Please feel free continue to put up more lies and things that "support" you, your choice.

What makes me angry and post here is that your deliberately trolling for responses by accepting your "side" is the only valid said and they "everyone" supports it. Complete lies. There are many articles FOR BOTH. Quit ingoring the truth. Anyone who comes here should have to common sense to realize just how biased and trolling what you write is to yourself and your own ego. 

We in retake POST even articles that are against us, even if we don't like what they say, BECAUSE it all needs to be discussed. You however, are blantly sweeping everything and reality under a rug.

Your choice, but this "Pro-Enders" movement is just a complete troll to enrage parts of retake and split us apart.

People of retake, if you read this, move on, its not worth your time. Lets continue to focus on what we do best, be civil and continue to have OPEN discussions. 

[ticklefist]

Thompson family wrote...

ticklefist

Great sig.

^5 Feel free to use it.

[Lmaoboat]

This thread is a lot more fun if you read the OP's posts in Thurston Howell's voice.

[pomrink]

CavScout wrote...

pomrink wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

I'm sorry, but this entire thing simply feels like arguing for the sake of arguing. If there is DLC which adds to or creates the possibility of new endings, and you don't care for it...

Don't. Install. The DLC.

It's really just that easy.

Let test that premise: If you don't like the games endings and you don't care for them...
Don't. Install. The Game.

Was it really just that easy?

That argument is invalid. The game was already purchased.

Oh really? How will one know they won't like the DLC without purchasing it then?

Again, invalid argument. Endgame DLC will be released to much fanfair. It is not possible to preorder DLC. People will be knowledgeable about it far before they buy it.  Ending leaks were said to be incorrect. They were accurate.

[iorveth1271]

HenchxNarf wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

OK fine. We don't have a right to ask people to change the ending. Fine. We have the right to wave money in their face though. Now which do you think matters more to your precious artists?

I'm pretty sure 50,000 won't make EA bat an eyelash about sales. You all could not buy anything from them and it wouldn't make a difference. 3.5+ Million people bought the game. 50k is nothing.

Too bad you're not pretty sure it's 50,000.

Even if it was more, it's a fraction of the sales.

It is still enough for EA to react. Hell, it is enough for Ray Muzyka to start talking.

Numbers seriously mean nothing. As Garrus said once: "Yell out loud enough and someone will come by to see what the fuzz is all about."

[KTheAlchemist]

CavScout wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

I'm sorry, but this entire thing simply feels like arguing for the sake of arguing. If there is DLC which adds to or creates the possibility of new endings, and you don't care for it...

Don't. Install. The DLC.

It's really just that easy.

Let test that premise: If you don't like the games endings and you don't care for them...
Don't. Install. The Game.

Was it really just that easy?

Do you want to be taken seriously? Or do you want to be seen as a troll? Kudos for not addressing the rest of my post and taking the quote out of context.

At any rate, funny you should bring that up, actually. Game development is an industry that has built up, over time, a system that prevents customer recourse if dissatisfied with a product. Especially if you are, like me, a PC gamer. It's one of the many things that have built up to the level of upset...I think that perhaps the ending of ME3 is really the log that broke the camel's back rather than necessarily the sum total of the reason for the upset. Both for Bioware personally, and for the games industry as well.

That said...your suggestion even beyond that is nonsensical. If they release an optional DLC that adds new endings, and you have the option not to install it, what do you lose?

If nothing is done, what the rest of us lose is a satisfactory ending, and the multiple meaningful-to-choice endings we were promised by Bioware.

If a DLC that adds new endings is released and you don't install it, you still get to keep the endings that you ostensibly prefer. You lose nothing.

Again, this is why it feels like arguing for the sake of arguing.