873 réponses à ce sujet

[pomrink]

Minty, where's the reply to the destruction of your credibility?

[Witchfinder General]

While the OP is effective it is also a red herring. It is rightfully proclaiming games as art, but it is also conveniently forgetting that games are consumer products as well. And it is a consumer's right to complain when they feel cheated in the sense that the product did not deliver what was promised.

[111987]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

Peace makers indeed....

It's their homeworld as well, and they were threatened with extinction, initiated by the quarians. I wouldnt think many organics were great either.........

Legion states as much, that for 200 years Shep was about the only nice organic to them and changed their perspective

How else was anyone going to be nice to them, considering they immediately blew up any ships that came near the Perseus Veil?

[Lmaoboat]

111987 wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

They seemed pretty willing to allow the Quarrians back since at least ME2, they always pretty much seemed to not mind the Quarrians coming back as long as they didn't try to kill them again. 

Actually, Legion says they wouldn't accept the Quarians back in ME2 because their simulations always resulted in eventual war.

No, they said they were skeptical of peace because their past experience showed that they were attacked 100% of the time the Quarians thought they would win.

[OblivionDawn]

Lexagg wrote...

"Creative integrity" is an excuse used by bad artists who can't stand criticism.

This, basically.

You can't just say you're an artist, crap on a plate, and call it immaculate.

That translates to the corporate scale as well. Yeah, these people are artists, but we paid good money for closure that we didn't get. We have every right to complain and we will continue to do so, as it seems to be generating results.

[111987]

Lmaoboat wrote...

111987 wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

They seemed pretty willing to allow the Quarrians back since at least ME2, they always pretty much seemed to not mind the Quarrians coming back as long as they didn't try to kill them again. 

Actually, Legion says they wouldn't accept the Quarians back in ME2 because their simulations always resulted in eventual war.

No, they said they were skeptical of peace because their past experience showed that they were attacked 100% of the time the Quarians thought they would win.

Yes, exactly, so during the events of ME2, they were not yet willing to accept the Quarians back.

[Cloaking_Thane]

111987 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

Peace makers indeed....

It's their homeworld as well, and they were threatened with extinction, initiated by the quarians. I wouldnt think many organics were great either.........

Legion states as much, that for 200 years Shep was about the only nice organic to them and changed their perspective

How else was anyone going to be nice to them, considering they immediately blew up any ships that came near the Perseus Veil?

based on how cosensus operated why would they take a chance? only a semi isolated unit like Legion could approach from a different POV...you grasping again

[CavScout]

durasteel wrote...
I invite you to propose even one reasonably possible alternative. The technology of the Mass Effect universe is well described, and conventional FTL drives would cook a ship's crew with static on a trip between clusters, even if they didn't run out of fuel first. There is specific reference to how badly Earth has been trashed in the game. Turians and Quarians can't even eat Earth's protein. In Red or Green, the Citadel is demolished.

I may not have "proof," but you lack even possibility.

So they have,at the minimum, full run of the star cluster Earth is in? They still have access to vast amounts of technology, including the Mars Protehan data.

They still have immensely powerful FTL drives with which to explore, something pretty much all the races had to have prior to finding a relay in the first place.

Life might be hard... but the alternative (the Repears culling you over the next century or so) is far worse.

[PSUHammer]

Admoniter wrote...

I don't consider myself part of the pro-ending movement but I'm glad that there are others out there that can respect Biowares stance of not compromising their vision for mass effect. I'll readily admit the presentation around the endings needs quite a bit of work, and I hope that Bioware puts the effort in to rectifying that. But I believe then endings in and of themselves are completely serviceable and IMO completely rewriting new endings would do just as much harm as good to the IP.

So while I don't outright support you OP I can respect and get behind your stance.

+1

[ashdrake1]

Lexagg wrote...

"Creative integrity" is an excuse to do get away with selling bad product.

I suppose that's why this thread exists.  We all hate the product so much.  Glad you could put in a intelligent view on the subject.

[CavScout]

RiouHotaru wrote...

All Dead wrote...
Occam's razor. It's the only reasonable assumption backed up by indirect evidence (ie., we understand enough of how ME's tech, galactic geography, economy and interspecies relationships etc. work to reasonably predict what would happen here). It requires much more speculation to posit otherwise without more information (one of the endings' problems).

Uhhh...it doesn't require any MORE speculation to say that things will work out.  In fact, there's information in-game that subtly supports the idea that the Galactic community could keep it togther.  It's true in that it takes more WORK to find that information.

It's much easier to just say "People starve, community falls apart."

In fact, the old man and boy at the end pretty much suggest it does work out in the end.

[Lmaoboat]

111987 wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

111987 wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

They seemed pretty willing to allow the Quarrians back since at least ME2, they always pretty much seemed to not mind the Quarrians coming back as long as they didn't try to kill them again. 

Actually, Legion says they wouldn't accept the Quarians back in ME2 because their simulations always resulted in eventual war.

No, they said they were skeptical of peace because their past experience showed that they were attacked 100% of the time the Quarians thought they would win.

Yes, exactly, so during the events of ME2, they were not yet willing to accept the Quarians back.

He said "Not without additional data that suggests coexistence is possible or desirable for the creators." And from a more metagaming standpoint, it would be one hell of a red-herring for Bioware to suddenly go, "JK, they were evil all along. "

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 22 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[PSUHammer]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

"Creative integrity" is an excuse used by bad artists who can't stand criticism.

This, basically.

You can't just say you're an artist, crap on a plate, and call it immaculate.

That translates to the corporate scale as well. Yeah, these people are artists, but we paid good money for closure that we didn't get. We have every right to complain and we will continue to do so, as it seems to be generating results.

YOU didn't get closure.  "We" sounds a bit collective.

[StevenG_CT]

MintyCool wrote...
 If changes are made to the fiction; we feel the repercussions will send devastating ripples throughout the entire industry.

How exactly will the release of an optional, extra cost DLC with additional ending options have a devastating effect on the industry? If this were a mandatory update that changed the ending for everyone then you would have a valid point but all of the indications are that it will be and optional DLC if it is ever released at all. If you are simply against anything that alters or builds on the original games as released then does this mean you are against any and all DLC even if it has nothing to do with the ending?

[Alsuras]

StevenG_CT wrote...

MintyCool wrote...
 If changes are made to the fiction; we feel the repercussions will send devastating ripples throughout the entire industry.

How exactly will the release of an optional, extra cost DLC with additional ending options have a devastating effect on the industry? If this were a mandatory update that changed the ending for everyone then you would have a valid point but all of the indications are that it will be and optional DLC if it is ever released at all. If you are simply against anything that alters or builds on the original games as released then does this mean you are against any and all DLC even if it has nothing to do with the ending?

The same way that Broken Steel destroyed the gaming ind-oh...oh right.

[leondes1]

RiouHotaru wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

"Your movement", not you personally. Read your own trends, your OP poster has been exposed. QUIT TROLLING

Just because the OP is a troll doesn't mean I don't support a movement for people who are Pro-Enders.  So now that I'm in support of the endings and of people in support of endings getting together I'm a troll?

Nope that's fine, start your own trend then. Use valid reasoning and don't ingore the other side of the arguement like the OP troll. I'm all fine for you doing that. Heck I'm all for having discussion. However, the OP is clearly not helpful to your cause and has been exposed. 

I respect that you have a different opinion on the endings. Make your own unique trend because the OP being a troll doesn't help your cause at all. I'd be happy do discuss with you, even though I just disagree. I'm sure there are plenty of people that feel the endings are just fine.

[RiouHotaru]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

I don't consider myself part of the pro-ending movement but I'm glad that there are others out there that can respect Biowares stance of not compromising their vision for mass effect. I'll readily admit the presentation around the endings needs quite a bit of work, and I hope that Bioware puts the effort in to rectifying that. But I believe then endings in and of themselves are completely serviceable and IMO completely rewriting new endings would do just as much harm as good to the IP.

So while I don't outright support you OP I can respect and get behind your stance.

+1

This right here.  +1 so much.

[CavScout]

Mahrac wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

"Don't buy it if you don't like it", your words. Good ones to live by. You shouldn't have bought ME3.

So I shouldn't have bought something that was promsed to have '16 distinct endings' because I should have known that there were three to six, depending on deffinition, and that they were all similar-to-identical? what?

If you subscribe to her premise, then yes. I think her premise is junk and this exercise is to make that point.

so i'm supposed to have psychic powers, or I can't contest something that contradicts it's advertisement. my mind is blown

If you subscribe to her premise, then yes.

i know it's hers, just wanted to make sure we were reading it the same way

I think we do. I just adopted her approach to show her how foolish it was.

[ashdrake1]

Witchfinder General wrote...

While the OP is effective it is also a red herring. It is rightfully proclaiming games as art, but it is also conveniently forgetting that games are consumer products as well. And it is a consumer's right to complain when they feel cheated in the sense that the product did not deliver what was promised.

I am confused, most art is a consumer product.  Be it paintings, movies, books or games the majority are sold.  Hence consumer product.  

This issue goes far beyond complaing, it is outright demanding as well as attacks on the company.

[OblivionDawn]

Hammer6767 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

"Creative integrity" is an excuse used by bad artists who can't stand criticism.

This, basically.

You can't just say you're an artist, crap on a plate, and call it immaculate.

That translates to the corporate scale as well. Yeah, these people are artists, but we paid good money for closure that we didn't get. We have every right to complain and we will continue to do so, as it seems to be generating results.

YOU didn't get closure.  "We" sounds a bit collective.

By "we," I mean the staggering amount of people here that have outright said that they didn't get closure.

Thought that was pretty obvious.

[pomrink]

ashdrake1 wrote...

Witchfinder General wrote...

While the OP is effective it is also a red herring. It is rightfully proclaiming games as art, but it is also conveniently forgetting that games are consumer products as well. And it is a consumer's right to complain when they feel cheated in the sense that the product did not deliver what was promised.

I am confused, most art is a consumer product.  Be it paintings, movies, books or games the majority are sold.  Hence consumer product.  

This issue goes far beyond complaing, it is outright demanding as well as attacks on the company.

What's wrong with demanding it? It's a business. We can demand whatever we want from a business.

[Witchfinder General]

ashdrake1 wrote...
I am confused, most art is a consumer product.  Be it paintings, movies, books or games the majority are sold.  Hence consumer product.  

This issue goes far beyond complaing, it is outright demanding as well as attacks on the company.

Saying the ending is good, or the ending is art does not address the fact that we did not get the ending we were promised. That's the point this thread fails to address.

[111987]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

based on how cosensus operated why would they take a chance? only a semi isolated unit like Legion could approach from a different POV...you grasping again

Yeah, not really.

If the Geth collective decided to kill organics on sight, even ones who went in for peaceful purposes, doesn't that speak volumes about the nature of the Geth?

The fact is that the Geth's portrayal is inconsistent throughout the series because in ME1 they weren't intended to have a schism (which is why the True Geth used Dragons Teeth on that one freighter near the veil in one of the side missions, and why the Geth were transmitting data about the Quarians  back beyond the Perseus Veil).

[Shallyah]

ashdrake1 wrote...

Witchfinder General wrote...

While the OP is effective it is also a red herring. It is rightfully proclaiming games as art, but it is also conveniently forgetting that games are consumer products as well. And it is a consumer's right to complain when they feel cheated in the sense that the product did not deliver what was promised.

I am confused, most art is a consumer product.  Be it paintings, movies, books or games the majority are sold.  Hence consumer product.  

This issue goes far beyond complaing, it is outright demanding as well as attacks on the company.

Whoever is attacking the company does not fit with us. By us I mean those who are politely requesting Bioware to offer more information and closure on the current endings, and perhaps offer additional possibilities without completely rewriting what already exists.

You know who insults Bioware? The OP of this thread. Just follow some of those links posted in the past few pages of this thread to see the pretty namecalling and tagging Bioware's devs and about anyone who has worked in creating Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 as incompetents. Even trying to convince the people of these boards how The Witcher 2 is a better game and attempting to force his views into Bioware's development of its products. So much for protecting the artistic integrity of Bioware.

Modifié par Shallyah, 22 mars 2012 - 03:01 .