873 réponses à ce sujet

[MeganHunter]

Lugaidster wrote...

MeganHunter wrote...

I've only spoken with two real life friends who would be considered "pro ender," if I have it right. that's not to say there's not more, most of my friends have been too busy with work or kids to crack ME3 open like I have. But I noticed the same thing with both: neither one has gotten to the ending yet.

Online, I see much of the same. A lot of people talking about artistic integrity haven't actually seen the ending (not saying you OP) or they say "I don't see how my opinion on it is relevant." That's really, really super telling. But that's just it. I don't have a beef with anybody wanting to protect IP or not set bad precedent. Heck, I work in IP creation, of course I'm going to agree with that. But this conversation really isn't about that. It's about how this one ending in particular is soooooooo bad for so many reasons that it does their whole beautiful franchise injustice.

Artistic integrity has nothing to do with the end or it's quality or the money involved. It has to do with the vision of the creator. Changing the ending also has nothing to do with artistic integrity unless the vision of the original creator is twisted to the point where it no longers conforms with his expectations.

As an example, expanding the idea of Batman, as long as the artist's original expectations are not broken, doesn't sacrifice artistic integrity. Changing the Batman by making him a happy guy and using a white suit (really doesn't conform to the original vision of the creator) because of outsider input sacrifices artistic integrity. The concept is subjective, not objective. If bend over to the whim of another person to the point my creation no longer conforms to my original vision then I'm sacrificing my artistic integrity.

It's pretty hard to explain that concept to people that aren't involved in creative work.

I for example, am up for Bioware to expanding the end to make it work better and make more sense to me. Completely rewriting it is pointless IMO and stupid. Those that argument that Bioware has no "artistic integrity" because they put a stupid text message or DLC are just drowning in a glass of water. Of course the product is a consumer product, but there's still creative work behind. And no, we were never involved in the creative process. As much as we were labeled as co-creators, we were never co-artists.

I hope they improve the ending, but I also hope they don't bend over to the whim of some disgruntled consumers just because...

I respect that. I actually went to art school. Then I worked at Mattel for the better part of a decade, making IP. Here's the thing: it wasn't art. It was directed by the market research group, and refined by the marketers to make the most money possible. It sounds ugly, but it was never our job to make toys kids liked. It was our job to make toys moms would buy. It never went deeper than that.

For your Batman analogy, I was there when we put him into day glow orange "stealth suits." We did this because little kids like glowy orange things, they like stealth, and they don't like thinking too hard.    But my point stands, every action figure designer HATED that Batman but they made him anyway. Because that's what the customers wanted.

When the great renaissance artists worked for patrons, they didn't get to just make whatever they felt like willy nilly. Someone put it great the other day, saying that if you paid for a series of three paintings, and the artist gave you two paintings and an awful sculpture, you'd be well within your rights to say that this wasn't what you paid for.

Bioware, and especially EA, is essentially the same thing: they're not artists, they're designers. They're totally allowed to make their own world, their own ending, and not change a thing. What they're not allowed to do is complain that customers are complaining, or say that we're not allowed to hold diminished brand loyalty from our disappointment. Corporations scream about the free market when it helps them pay less taxes, but apparently don't want it to extend to us effectively voting on consumer products with our pocketbooks.

I don't mean to sound snarky though, I compeltely agree with you on all counts. I myself am a bit jaded from my career. But those creatives who work in these industries know that they're not fine artists, they're product designers. Just because it's pretty or moving doesn't mean it's art.

To put it another way. With great art, if most people don't fully get it, you could be doing an awesome job. With great design, if even one person didn't get it, you failed in your design criteria.

[killnoob]

leondes1 wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

Bingo, troll exposed, Someone at bioware lock this trend already.

The Retake Motto.

Can you really flame any harder? You have already been exposed. Even people in your own trend see that. 

Flamebaiting troll

The amount of hate in the trend is out of hand and it should be locked for that reason. What you just did there just shows how much of a troll you really are. We don't need hate, we need open discussions not flamebaiting. This trend is continues to push out more and more hate out by the minute.

You want this thread to be locked  because the amount of hate...oh the irony, why don't you use the same standard to judge the I HATE ME3 threads.

[Lugaidster]

Lexagg wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...


Also, ftr, even if it was considered art over a product, art still gets criticized.  This.  So much this.  How many critics demand a artist alter thier work?  It's one thing not to like and or get someones art.  However telling them thier work is flawed and must be fixed I.E. altered to skew with the critics view of art.  That is not the work of a critic.  

This movement is not criticizing, they are demanding the writer change his story.   I have never witnessed any critic do this.

We are not critics. We are customers.

And you have all the right to ask for a change. But it doesn't mean you'll get what you want, nor does it mean you're entitled to it. At most, what you're entitled to is a refund.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Lugaidster wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Wrong perfect analogy.......and in your fail analogy I can go back and demand it be changed...welcome to the real world

That's exactly what we are going. Going back and demanding it to be changed.

Sure and if they refuse then you can do several things

never buy bioware again

attempt to recoup $ through several means

Pursue legal means, etc.

Artistic liscence only gets you so far. EA is in lawsuits up to its eyeballs, specifically EASports due to this very reason and several others

I bet you 1000000 dollars you wouldn't be able to win this lawsuit. At most you'll get a refund, which you already can.

No one cares I'm simply laying out options.

I'm sure no one thought they would win a class action against Honda Corp or Toyota Corp either.....

[leondes1]

MintyCool wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

Bingo, troll exposed, Someone at bioware lock this trend already.

The Retake Motto.

Can you really flame any harder? You have already been exposed. Even people in your own trend see that. 

Flamebaiting troll

The amount of hate in the trend is out of hand and it should be locked for that reason. What you just did there just shows how much of a troll you really are. We don't need hate, we need open discussions not flamebaiting. This trend is continues to push out more and more hate out by the minute.

So I'm attacked for 20 pages; and when I actually respond with something cute you scream foul? Contrary to what you project on me, I did create an open discussion; it was the entire point of this thread. I cant help it if your dying movement resorts to fits of rage.

I get it, I should just take it....

Give this a read I assure you my goal wasn't to troll...

MintyCool wrote...
Why We Feel the Ending Works:

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story? No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety; in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.

Within your very OP
--------------
Retake Mass Effects continued Steps into Complete Absurdity:

Retake Mass Effect Member has filed a FTC Complaint: http://www.pcmag.com...,2401775,00.asp

Retake Mass Effect Creates Spook Conspiracies Only to further the fringe's Rage:http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423

The Retake Movement Claims They are "Entitled" to a New Ending: http://social.biowar...-9909123-1.html

The Retake Movement continues to repeatedly harass game Devs of ME3 over twitter, Facebook, and other social media. 

The Retake movement has created a fake PR campaign thread to boost propaganda.

More updates soon.  
------------
This is OPEN!?!? Who are you trying to kid. You blantly try to slander Retake with these broad overgenerizations of this is how Retake is. Where is the DISCUSSION here. No, there is none. This is how retake is, they are entitled, have a fake pr campaign,are completely absurd. You are so blantly a troll its insane. You cannot just pick parts that you like and say THIS IS RETAKE THEY ARE ALL LIKE THIS.

Also this bit.

Industry Supporters of the Ending:

BioShock Creator Ken Levine: http://www.digitalsp...ken-levine.html

Penny Arcades Ben Kuchera: http://www.penny-arc...the-series-mass

Kotaku: http://www.kotaku.co...ver-be-changed/

IGN: http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1219446p1.html

Colin Moriarty: http://www.ign.com/v...3-opinion-video

ThumbCulture: http://thumb-culture...n-mass-effects/

Destructoid: http://www.destructo...ew-223218.phtml

Daniel Starky: http://www.destructo...wn-223966.phtml

Shack News: http://www.shacknews...effect-3-review

Garnett Lee: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Jeff Cannata: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Game Informer: www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/21/hey-bioware-while-you-39-re-at-it.aspx 

------------------

If you were SO OPEN, how about SHOWING THE OTHER SIDE as well. See this is the problem. If this was truely open, both sides would be shown and discussed. Instead its all yours. In treads that are against us we come in and discuss, we may disagree, but we show the other side respect, not sweep it under a rug. Instead, its clear as day you are trying to enrage people.

Oh and I'm even going to go into how the word Checkmate is a total flamebait and you know it.

Modifié par leondes1, 22 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[ashdrake1]

Dreogan wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Art is nothing more than a expression of views and opinions.  Are you saying your own thoughts on the issue would be subject to change if someone paid you for it?  That your anger at the ending meant nothing because you received money for it?  That would make it allright?

My opinion is you are wrong. You cannot change my opinion because art.

You have to try harder. You either don't understand art, it's definition or you're simply a troll.

I absolutely understand art, in all the term's meaningless definitions. You are the slow individual that cannot understand the depth of my art. It is simply too profound.

"I'd rather get a fixed ending, with a price tag attached or no price tag attached. If I personally consider it worth buying, then I will buy it."  Yup deep understanding of art.  Put pants on the Michelangelo's David to "fix" it.  You don't care a damn about art.  Just your own entitled sense of importance.

Did you seriously just compare the end to Mass Effect to the David? 

Please, let me sit down before you answer that.

You don't think story telling is as import as scuplting?  To me it is nothing but as import as David.  To me it has the most compelling and thought provoking story telling of the medium.  

[Mahrac]

CavScout wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

They seemed pretty willing to allow the Quarrians back since at least ME2, they always pretty much seemed to not mind the Quarrians coming back as long as they didn't try to kill them again. 

When where the Quarians allowed back in ME2?

talk to legion. he says they're willing to give it back

also, the quarians DID want to kill them, because they didn't think the geth were open to peace. it's a self sustaining conflict (that shepard can end, permanently)

Modifié par Mahrac, 22 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[CavScout]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

111987 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

Peace makers indeed....

It's their homeworld as well, and they were threatened with extinction, initiated by the quarians. I wouldnt think many organics were great either.........

Legion states as much, that for 200 years Shep was about the only nice organic to them and changed their perspective

How else was anyone going to be nice to them, considering they immediately blew up any ships that came near the Perseus Veil?

based on how cosensus operated why would they take a chance? only a semi isolated unit like Legion could approach from a different POV...you grasping again

He stated what happened in the game universe and he is "grasping"????

[Wolven_Soul]

Lugaidster wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Wrong perfect analogy.......and in your fail analogy I can go back and demand it be changed...welcome to the real world

That's exactly what we are going. Going back and demanding it to be changed.

Sure and if they refuse then you can do several things

never buy bioware again

attempt to recoup $ through several means

Pursue legal means, etc.

Artistic liscence only gets you so far. EA is in lawsuits up to its eyeballs, specifically EASports due to this very reason and several others

I bet you 1000000 dollars you wouldn't be able to win this lawsuit. At most you'll get a refund, which you already can.

I have heard of lawsuits much more ridiculous than that winning.

[Dreogan]

Lugaidster wrote...

Art is subjective. As such, it can be compared with other forms of art. If you don't understand that word, you have bigger issues.

What is not subjective is the passage of time. Mass Effect is ephemeral; it absolutely will not last. It was produced to be consumed and discarded. The David, however, is on a completely different pedestal. It is to be honored, mimiced, studied.

If the David is a fine gilded teacup, Mass Effect is a filthy paper cup.

To raise Mass Effect up to the level of the David is to insult the David.

Modifié par Dreogan, 22 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[leondes1]

OblivionDawn wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

I can't help it if your dying movement resorts to fits of rage.

Lol.

No better troll than a deluded one.

Yep, more flamebait

[Suraxis]

Entitled to accept all things that suck as a medium of art. That pile of **** you just stepped in? **** you its art.

[CavScout]

Alsuras wrote...

StevenG_CT wrote...

MintyCool wrote...
 If changes are made to the fiction; we feel the repercussions will send devastating ripples throughout the entire industry.

How exactly will the release of an optional, extra cost DLC with additional ending options have a devastating effect on the industry? If this were a mandatory update that changed the ending for everyone then you would have a valid point but all of the indications are that it will be and optional DLC if it is ever released at all. If you are simply against anything that alters or builds on the original games as released then does this mean you are against any and all DLC even if it has nothing to do with the ending?

The same way that Broken Steel destroyed the gaming ind-oh...oh right.

Broken Steel didn't "fix" and ending, it extended game play well beyond the original game.

[Ozai75]

Stop Feeding this Troll and let this thread die the worst death it can get. Ignore it. Simple and easy. Stop talking to someone who is writing only to try and rile you up.

[Lexagg]

Lugaidster wrote...
And you have all the right to ask for a change. But it doesn't mean you'll get what you want, nor does it mean you're entitled to it. At most, what you're entitled to is a refund.

I am asking for a change, that's all I'm doing. And I'm politely suggesting that if they don't change it - they will lose me as a customer.

Apparently, they decided that keeping me as a customer is more important than "lolartistic integrity". Which I already mentioned is just a pile of crap excuse in the first place.

Modifié par Lexagg, 22 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[shamE12]

You realize the the game "journalists"(LOL) that posted articles in favor of the endings were paid to do so right?

[MintyCool]

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 22 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

CavScout wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

111987 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
the point of keeping the planet was to rebuild it. later it was because it offered a better base of operations for self-defense. They CAN live anywhere, but they won't be able to stay anywhere unless the quarians are willing to try for peace

The Quarians just want their homeworld back. The Geth could have tried for peace and bailed on that planet a long time ago. They didn't. Instead they killed anyone who came poking around their territory. Then you had some decided to help Sovereign out.

Peace makers indeed....

It's their homeworld as well, and they were threatened with extinction, initiated by the quarians. I wouldnt think many organics were great either.........

Legion states as much, that for 200 years Shep was about the only nice organic to them and changed their perspective

How else was anyone going to be nice to them, considering they immediately blew up any ships that came near the Perseus Veil?

based on how cosensus operated why would they take a chance? only a semi isolated unit like Legion could approach from a different POV...you grasping again

He stated what happened in the game universe and he is "grasping"????

Re-read it page bumper; there's important stuff in there; polemic

[WilliamDracul88]

Ozai75 wrote...

Stop Feeding this Troll and let this thread die the worst death it can get. Ignore it. Simple and easy. Stop talking to someone who is writing only to try and rile you up.

http://i0.kym-cdn.co...on-original.jpg

[killnoob]

leondes1 wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

Bingo, troll exposed, Someone at bioware lock this trend already.

The Retake Motto.

Can you really flame any harder? You have already been exposed. Even people in your own trend see that. 

Flamebaiting troll

The amount of hate in the trend is out of hand and it should be locked for that reason. What you just did there just shows how much of a troll you really are. We don't need hate, we need open discussions not flamebaiting. This trend is continues to push out more and more hate out by the minute.

So I'm attacked for 20 pages; and when I actually respond with something cute you scream foul? Contrary to what you project on me, I did create an open discussion; it was the entire point of this thread. I cant help it if your dying movement resorts to fits of rage.

I get it, I should just take it....

Give this a read I assure you my goal wasn't to troll...

MintyCool wrote...
Why We Feel the Ending Works:

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story? No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety; in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.

Within your very OP
--------------
Retake Mass Effects continued Steps into Complete Absurdity:

Retake Mass Effect Member has filed a FTC Complaint: http://www.pcmag.com...,2401775,00.asp

Retake Mass Effect Creates Spook Conspiracies Only to further the fringe's Rage:http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423

The Retake Movement Claims They are "Entitled" to a New Ending: http://social.biowar...-9909123-1.html

The Retake Movement continues to repeatedly harass game Devs of ME3 over twitter, Facebook, and other social media. 

The Retake movement has created a fake PR campaign thread to boost propaganda.

More updates soon.  
------------
This is OPEN!?!? Who are you trying to kid. You blantly try to slander Retake with these broad overgenerizations of this is how Retake is. Where is the DISCUSSION here. No, there is none. This is how retake is, they are entitled, have a fake pr campaign,are completely absurd. You are so blantly a troll its insane. You cannot just pick parts that you like and say THIS IS RETAKE THEY ARE ALL LIKE THIS.

Also this bit.

Industry Supporters of the Ending:

BioShock Creator Ken Levine: http://www.digitalsp...ken-levine.html

Penny Arcades Ben Kuchera: http://www.penny-arc...the-series-mass

Kotaku: http://www.kotaku.co...ver-be-changed/

IGN: http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1219446p1.html

Colin Moriarty: http://www.ign.com/v...3-opinion-video

ThumbCulture: http://thumb-culture...n-mass-effects/

Destructoid: http://www.destructo...ew-223218.phtml

Daniel Starky: http://www.destructo...wn-223966.phtml

Shack News: http://www.shacknews...effect-3-review

Garnett Lee: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Jeff Cannata: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Game Informer: www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/21/hey-bioware-while-you-39-re-at-it.aspx 

------------------

If you were SO OPEN, how about SHOWING THE OTHER SIDE as well. See this is the problem. If this was truely open, both sides would be shown and discussed. Instead its all yours. In treads that are against us we come in and discuss, we may disagree, but we show the other side respect, not sweep it under a rug. Instead, its clear as day you are trying to enrage people.

you mean like "OMG THESE JOUNRALISTS ARE BEING PAID BY EA"  opinion? yeah, i have seen plenty of that 

Modifié par killnoob, 22 mars 2012 - 03:47 .

[Mahrac]

MintyCool wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

for the love of all that's holy, stop saying checkmate unless it's ACTUALLY game over. saying it in a tournament looses you the game....arguement... LOL you lose the arguement b saying checkmate

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

stop saying checkmate if you haven;t won the arguement. in a real tournamnet it would lose you the game... arguemnt... LOL you lose the arguement by saying checkmate

Modifié par Mahrac, 22 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[ashdrake1]

KTheAlchemist wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

You don't think at all a ending that is "forced" upon us is a tool to keep telling a story.  Shepards story may be done, but they have stated the setting will continue, and that we should keep our saves.  It as it always has been with every game in the series.  The ending is always the same, but the choices you make affect the story as it goes.

Again diffrence of

It doesn't really function in that capacity, though.

Let's say for the sake of argument that this doesn't create a devastated galaxy that is incapable of functioning (which goes back into plot holes, but okay). Let's say that they eventually create better FTL drives and the galaxy sloooowly creeps back up to where it once was and is a place where you could have a game of somewhat similar scope to ME1-3.

You've still got "Is everyone hybrid synthetic?", "Are all synthetics dead?" and "Are the reapers still around under the control of some weird disembodied Shepard-consciousness?". Three things that would grossly change the face of a future ME title to the point that it would probably be beyond even Bioware's means to create such a game.

Given this ending as is, if shepard's story ends and we go on to other stories in this universe that take place later, they're going to have to create a "canon ending" as far as that NEW series of games goes. Forcing us into a tunnel at the end doesn't solve that in any way. It actually makes the problem worse. A universe that's pretty much the same a hundred years into the future to what it is now, is much easier to work around and work player choices into in some fashion than a galaxy whose entire face is changed.

Meanwhile, my and many people's real problem with all this remains: If you're going to ram everything down to 3 off-the-peg choices in pursuit of some philosophical "point", you'd better not promise people something wildly different from what you're planning to deliver.

It really doesn't though.  It's pretty easy to write through.  Reapers never return.  Shepard basically  becomes a god in the control option.  Does not see a reason to return.   Synthesis convinces the reapers they are no longer needed and destroy is obvios.  No need for reapers.  

Even with the destroy option, godchild states we will still create synthetics.  So you do a skin swap for any robot people and change some dialoge.  Same for the synthesis.  It's not like these will be active topics if the place the next game a 1000 years from now.

Actually the problem is that they WILL be an active topic 1000 years from now. You do realize that the "robot people" you're talking about reskinning would be, in the case of a "synthesis" future scenario, every single living being in the galaxy, right? That's basically an entire 2nd set of art assets that only exists if you chose synthesis. Compare this to a history where Shepard saved the galaxy (since obviously a total failure ending would have to be non-canon if you're playing a future game) , but the differences are more did Shepard live, did Shepard die, what became of his crew members, et cetera. They're not saving themselves work or making future games somehow easier in any way with this...if anything we're more likely to get a "canon" ending.

Why?  Are they going to bring up we are half robot all the time a 1000 years after it happens?  Does the Fall of the roman empire come up all the time in day to day conversation?  All it requires is a simple skin change(as seen in the ending) some off comments and perhaps some diffrent codex entries.

The fall of the roman empire didnt' cause us all to be drastically different in appearance. You're talking about a few characters reskinned vs. nearly the entire cast of the game. Not to mention potential drastic changes to the entire outlook of the galaxy on many issues to the point you would realistically end up with drastically different plots.

At any rate, I'm not sure how any of this creates LESS work than "millenia ago shepard saved the galaxy, and he/she died in the battle / lived to a ripe old age  / was killed 5 years later doing mercenary work / et cetera."

While all of this is kind of fun to discuss, though, it's still a distraction from what I think is a really key point: If this is what Bioware wanted to do, they shouldn't have promised something completely different than what they planned to deliver.

Again diffrence of opinion.  Bio delivered a large number of endings

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.


It may be a tad shy of 18, but it's still a reasonable number.  They still delivered a unparalled trip to the end, and for some of us all the way through the end.  

[Lugaidster]

MeganHunter wrote...

I respect that. I actually went to art school. Then I worked at Mattel for the better part of a decade, making IP. Here's the thing: it wasn't art. It was directed by the market research group, and refined by the marketers to make the most money possible. It sounds ugly, but it was never our job to make toys kids liked. It was our job to make toys moms would buy. It never went deeper than that.

For your Batman analogy, I was there when we put him into day glow orange "stealth suits." We did this because little kids like glowy orange things, they like stealth, and they don't like thinking too hard.    But my point stands, every action figure designer HATED that Batman but they made him anyway. Because that's what the customers wanted.

When the great renaissance artists worked for patrons, they didn't get to just make whatever they felt like willy nilly. Someone put it great the other day, saying that if you paid for a series of three paintings, and the artist gave you two paintings and an awful sculpture, you'd be well within your rights to say that this wasn't what you paid for.

Bioware, and especially EA, is essentially the same thing: they're not artists, they're designers. They're totally allowed to make their own world, their own ending, and not change a thing. What they're not allowed to do is complain that customers are complaining, or say that we're not allowed to hold diminished brand loyalty from our disappointment. Corporations scream about the free market when it helps them pay less taxes, but apparently don't want it to extend to us effectively voting on consumer products with our pocketbooks.

I don't mean to sound snarky though, I compeltely agree with you on all counts. I myself am a bit jaded from my career. But those creatives who work in these industries know that they're not fine artists, they're product designers. Just because it's pretty or moving doesn't mean it's art.

To put it another way. With great art, if most people don't fully get it, you could be doing an awesome job. With great design, if even one person didn't get it, you failed in your design criteria.

You only showed art that lacks integrity. By the way, you said it right there "they're not fine artists", but they're certainly artists. That's the part where integrity enters. A sell-out is still an artist, just a shody one. And it's still his call when he wants to sell out. Sure you can say once a sell-out, always a sell-out, but it's still his call. Poor art is art. Fine art is art. Videogames are art, maybe one motivated by money, but it's still art. And I certainly doubt that the writers in Bioware are as low as some would paint them to be. They did, after all, create Mass Effect. They may not have Micheangelo's integrity, but they have their's nonetheless. By calling them otherwise, you aren't really doing the movement a favor.

[Psychlonus]

Nothing the OP has said negates the fact that a good amount of focus group research before approving the storyboard would've done the artists a lot of damn good in this case. The first thing they tell you in musical composition is this: don't just listen to it yourself, you pretty much will automatically like your own musical composition; play it for your friends who will give you an honest opinion on it.

[Lexagg]

MintyCool wrote...

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

AAAahahaha, real majority. Keep dreaming.
And by the way, I don't care about who voiced displeasure about my "movement". If BioWare wish so - they can chose to please Ken Whatever and hope he will buy their games in the future.