873 réponses à ce sujet

[CavScout]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

durasteel wrote...

CavScout wrote...

...

Second, the Reapers aren't synthetic...

Of course they are. Just because they're made out of biomass doens't make them any less synthetic.  They are created beings, controled by AI. They're synthetic.

I wonder why you delete the other response that was paired with that... but in anycase...

Sovereign says they are the pinnacle of organic evolution. They harvest organics to add to themselves. Reapers are not synthetic, they are some kind of hybrid.

created by a god child....to stop synthetic destruction, even though shep had peace...good point

You seem frustrated when you lose. Why you interjecting "god child" as an epithet and fell back to using a tire old meme (which is wrong by the way)?

Is this going to be standard behavior each time you lose on a point of contention? Throwing out straw-men and/or kicking the goal posts because you can't intelligently defend a point will not be conducive to debate.

[CavScout]

Lexagg wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...
Nothing.  The issue is giving into these demands.  That is what compromises artistic integrity.  So what if you had issues with their story?  It's their story, they spent years telling it.  Pride in ones work is paramount to a true artist.  It is thier view they are expressing.  Changing it into something else because of complaints and money ( cause they will charge you for it) does not really reflect the views of the writers, but pressure from the publishers.

There is no such thing as ARTISTIC INTEGRITY IN CONSUMER PRODUCT.

George Lucas laughs at you and says "Greedo shot first!"

[Mahrac]

CavScout wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...
Nothing.  The issue is giving into these demands.  That is what compromises artistic integrity.  So what if you had issues with their story?  It's their story, they spent years telling it.  Pride in ones work is paramount to a true artist.  It is thier view they are expressing.  Changing it into something else because of complaints and money ( cause they will charge you for it) does not really reflect the views of the writers, but pressure from the publishers.

There is no such thing as ARTISTIC INTEGRITY IN CONSUMER PRODUCT.

George Lucas laughs at you and says "Greedo shot first!"

and we laugh back and say "no he didn't!'

[Vaktathi]

MintyCool wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

Why are you linking anything to IGN? Are you seriously trying to use IGN as a credible source? When they are making tens of thousands of dollars in ad revenue from ME3 ads, got tons of pre-release access for preview articles and had an actual *EMPLOYEE* in the game? 

Do you *SERIOUSLY* expect anybody to take *ANYTHING* from them as legitimate in any way?

Also, you keep using that word, checkmate, I do not think it means what you think it does. /montoya. 

[iheartbob]

I'll go ahead and agree with you that Mass Effect could be considered "art," but you have to understand that all art is completely relative. There are also different types of art.

There is art that exists to be viewed and appreciated passively.

And then there are video games, which involve interaction between various groups of people. These include, but are not limited to, writers, developers, graphic designers, producers, and consumers. As consumers we are not passive viewers, and because money is involved, we have every right to express our displeasure with the product. Because while Mass Effect might have been a vision in an artists's mind before it was released, it became a product in a market place that is subject to criticism when it was released on March 6th.

So just as you have every right to be completely happy with the poduct you purchased, so do people who feel mislead by advertisments promising closure and varying endings have every right to express their dissapointment.

Modifié par iheartbob, 22 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[Lexagg]

ashdrake1 wrote...

Again diffrence of opinion.  Bio delivered a large number of endings

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.


It may be a tad shy of 18, but it's still a reasonable number.  They still delivered a unparalled trip to the end, and for some of us all the way through the end.  

OOH, this is my favority. "TECHNICALLY 18 endings". It's like selling you a bag of chips with one chip in it and saying "Well, TECHNICALLY it isn't empty!"

[naes1984]

Checkmate doesn't mean what you think it means.

[RockSW]

you like ****, congratz

[leondes1]

Mahrac wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

for the love of all that's holy, stop saying checkmate unless it's ACTUALLY game over. saying it in a tournament looses you the game....arguement... LOL you lose the arguement b saying checkmate

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

stop saying checkmate if you haven;t won the arguement. in a real tournamnet it would lose you the game... arguemnt... LOL you lose the arguement by saying checkmate

It's just to get people worked up. I'm on my way out. I've reported this and pmed. I've made my point. Let this die.

[Dreogan]

You only showed art that lacks integrity. By the way, you said it right there "they're not fine artists", but they're certainly artists. That's the part where integrity enters. A sell-out is still an artist, just a shody one. And it's still his call when he wants to sell out. Sure you can say once a sell-out, always a sell-out, but it's still his call. Poor art is art. Fine art is art. Videogames are art, maybe one motivated by money, but it's still art. And I certainly doubt that the writers in Bioware are as low as some would paint them to be. They did, after all, create Mass Effect. They may not have Micheangelo's integrity, but they have their's nonetheless. By calling them otherwise, you aren't really doing the movement a favor.

So to sink Mass Effect's "artistic integrity" I only need to point to one example where their "art" became something against their original vision due to market forces. I will point to three: interspecies romance options (aside from Asari) due to fan feedback, tali's face due to fan feedback, and "space magic" synthesis in the ending of Mass Effect. Yes, "space magic" was specifically mentioned in the trilogy's founding document.

Modifié par Dreogan, 22 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[killnoob]

shamE12 wrote...

You realize the the game "journalists"(LOL) that posted articles in favor of the endings were paid to do so right?

" if you don't not agree us, you are  EA/Bioware's puppet"

Another Retake ME 3 cult motto.

Civility and Respect? lol

 

[CavScout]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

111987 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...


Sure, but how is this any different than the sustainability of the Citadel races?

or Krogan....or any other free willed being...........no answer for this at all


God child proclaims inevitability, oniscience in the last 2 min lol be serious

Synthetics could achieve a technological singularity that would be impossible to defeat. They would wipe out all organic life. Or at least, that's what the Reaper's are trying to prevent.

Organics could never do the same. Try to understand the argument before simply dismissing it.

that's absolutely no argument thats simply you making things up

Have you played the game?

[ashdrake1]

Dreogan wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Art is subjective. As such, it can be compared with other forms of art. If you don't understand that word, you have bigger issues.

What is not subjective is the passage of time. Mass Effect is ephemeral; it absolutely will not last. It was produced to be consumed and discarded. The David, however, is on a completely different pedestal. It is to be honored, mimiced, studied.

If the David is a fine gilded teacup, Mass Effect is a filthy paper cup.

To raise Mass Effect up to the level of the David is to insult the David.

It makes no diffrence on my views if the david or mass effect fall out of favor with other people.  I still remeber the first time I played pac man, or when kefka destroyed the world and meeting a crazy ranger with a hamster.  Games are art.  They have had a lasting impact on my life.  I can only describe my feelings on your views as heartbreaking.  To invest so much time on something that has so little meaning.

[Psychlonus]

GEORGE LUCAS SERIOUSLY REDUCED JAR JAR BINKS' CAMERA TIME IN EPISODES II and III AND YOU KNOW IT. HE WAS REDUCED TO A FREAKIN' PALL BEARER.

[leondes1]

Vaktathi wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

Why are you linking anything to IGN? Are you seriously trying to use IGN as a credible source? When they are making tens of thousands of dollars in ad revenue from ME3 ads, got tons of pre-release access for preview articles and had an actual *EMPLOYEE* in the game? 

Do you *SERIOUSLY* expect anybody to take *ANYTHING* from them as legitimate in any way?

Also, you keep using that word, checkmate, I do not think it means what you think it does. /montoya. 

Just being a troll, just walk away, report the nonsense and walk away.

[Mahrac]

leondes1 wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

for the love of all that's holy, stop saying checkmate unless it's ACTUALLY game over. saying it in a tournament looses you the game....arguement... LOL you lose the arguement b saying checkmate

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

stop saying checkmate if you haven;t won the arguement. in a real tournamnet it would lose you the game... arguemnt... LOL you lose the arguement by saying checkmate

It's just to get people worked up. I'm on my way out. I've reported this and pmed. I've made my point. Let this die.

so s/he also loses by trolling... this argument was over in the first post

[Hearnishere123]

MintyCool wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

 All Retake Mass Effect members Please leave this thread. I know you are just trying to point out what we think makes them wrong, but by doing this you are adding Fuel to the fire, proveing them right about us being crazy or Flamers. If you can not reply without insulting these people then your no better than Trolls. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. They have the right to this thread even if then post the link on out threads. We must stand fast, not let anger control us, and KEEP HOLDING THE LINE! But from what I have seen, most of yall are not Holding The Line, but chargeing into battle. This shouldnt be our way, you all should know this, fighting will lead to both sides voices being unheard by others.

Retakers: Be kind or go watch youtube.

Pro-enders: I respect your right to what you think, but may I ask so kindly not to post on other threads with this threads link saying that:

MintyCool wrote...

Retake has failed: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

I hope both sides calm down soon. We can hate eachother, disagree with eachother, but when we start fighting, we are no better then rabid aninals,

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

True, but it has happen before, Look at Fallout 2 [maybe 3 i dont know because i only read about it] but they have changed their ending because fans did not like it. Now you have a point that we most likely will fail, but even if we fail we win, we have rasied $78,035 dollars to Child's Play so if bioware never changes the ending, and we never get what we want, atleast we will know that we helpped kids who need it. So we are happy with that, however the reason people from our movement are attacking is because:
1. you set flamebait in which they took and didnt think before hand.
2. You are telling people to give up hope, which is just sad of someone to do.
3. Instead of letting us "fade away" like you say we are, you went and got in our faces.

Now I respect that you wanted for us to shut up, but wanting us to shut up is like us wanting you to shut up. So in the end, no one have the moral high ground. :/

[KTheAlchemist]

ashdrake1 wrote...


Again diffrence of opinion.  Bio delivered a large number of endings

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.


It may be a tad shy of 18, but it's still a reasonable number.  They still delivered a unparalled trip to the end, and for some of us all the way through the end.  

Actually, they promised not just "16 endings" (whether or not your list is nit picking I'll leave to an argument that would likely go nowhere), but "wildly divergent endings". Whether or not you can call that list a true list of "different endings" rather than essentially the same ending with utterly minor tweaks, you can't with a straight face say that there was true significant difference between them.

[alx119]

I'm amused how this is "the official" support thread and basically all comments are from people that doesn't precisely "support" the endings. Shows you how much of a minority anti-endings are.

[InfiniteDemise]

MintyCool wrote...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

A shame, then, that the "real majority", being so massive and all, can't manage to reverse the negative reviews on metacritic and amazon, eh?

Serious damage is being done to Bioware here; soon, you may be out of a job. Shame, that.

BTW, my CE of ME3 has a THE EA EXPERIENCE sticker on it, just like yours.

Modifié par InfiniteDemise, 22 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[Streambeck]

I just wanna say, from someone who didn't enjoy the ending, but also wouldn't consider myself part of the Retake "movement," I admire what you're trying to do, and I think you've done a good job articulating your stance.

I also feel like your assertions about the people who didn't like the ending are unfair. I wouldn't consider any of the reasons listed to be the absolute, or even passive, reasons why I didn't appreciate the ending. You're also putting me, personally, in a category with people I wouldn't ever actively choose to be in collusion with.

The Retake stance seems to be, whether you deem it as misguided or not, purely in service to changing the ending. This "movement" feels just as concerned with actively trying to humiliate or demean the Retakers as it is with maintaining the artistic integrity of developers, which is shallow and irrelevant to your proposed purpose.

[leondes1]

killnoob wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

You realize the the game "journalists"(LOL) that posted articles in favor of the endings were paid to do so right?

" if you don't not agree us, you are  EA/Bioware's puppet"

Another Retake ME 3 cult motto.

Civility and Respect? lol

 

Another troll overgeneralization. Thank you for trying to group all of us together. Nothing there says what you just posted.

[ashdrake1]

Lexagg wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...
And you have all the right to ask for a change. But it doesn't mean you'll get what you want, nor does it mean you're entitled to it. At most, what you're entitled to is a refund.

I am asking for a change, that's all I'm doing. And I'm politely suggesting that if they don't change it - they will lose me as a customer.

Apparently, they decided that keeping me as a customer is more important than "lolartistic integrity". Which I already mentioned is just a pile of crap excuse in the first place.

No you are not  you trolling this thread telling everyone you disagree with that they don't count.  You have had no real impact on this thread other than you guys are dumb hur hur.

[Dreogan]

ashdrake1 wrote...

It makes no diffrence on my views if the david or mass effect fall out of favor with other people.  I still remeber the first time I played pac man, or when kefka destroyed the world and meeting a crazy ranger with a hamster.  Games are art.  They have had a lasting impact on my life.  I can only describe my feelings on your views as heartbreaking.  To invest so much time on something that has so little meaning.

And I would consider it equally heartbreaking to see someone attempt to find meaning where there is none.

[Lexagg]

ashdrake1 wrote...

It makes no diffrence on my views if the david or mass effect fall out of favor with other people.  I still remeber the first time I played pac man, or when kefka destroyed the world and meeting a crazy ranger with a hamster.  Games are art.  They have had a lasting impact on my life.  I can only describe my feelings on your views as heartbreaking.  To invest so much time on something that has so little meaning.

Games might be art, but "artistic integrity" isn't an excuse to sell bad art. And yes, art CAN be bad. Case in point: Phantom Meanace.