Ce sujet est fermé
The only thing I will say about this. J.K. Rowling intended that Harry Potter die in the very end fighting He Who Must Not Be Named. Due to fan's dismay against such an ending she changed it to allow Harry Potter to live. Fans are the most influential part of person/company/etc, they make then succeed or 'break' them -- so to speak.
Checkmate: Pro-Enders - The Official Support Thread For Creative Risk and Artistic Integrity
Débuté par
MintyCool
, mars 13 2012 03:29
Retour en haut
#777
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:02
MintyCool
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CavScout wrote...
leondes1 wrote...
MintyCool wrote...
leondes1 wrote...
Bingo, troll exposed, Someone at bioware lock this trend already.
The Retake Motto.
Can you really flame any harder? You have already been exposed. Even people in your own trend see that.
Flamebaiting troll
The amount of hate in the trend is out of hand and it should be locked for that reason. What you just did there just shows how much of a troll you really are. We don't need hate, we need open discussions not flamebaiting. This trend is continues to push out more and more hate out by the minute.
Is it not utterly self-serving for RetakeME folks to come into a thread they disagree with and vomit all over it and then demand it should be locked because it has vomit all over it?
^
#778
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:02
Hearnishere123
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MintyCool wrote...
Hey Pro-Enders, anyone notice the massive cult-like responses from Retake? They feel that if they simply "stop posting" well simply just fade away and they will dominate the forum again? As if we won't continue to keep updating this thread....
How incredibly laughable.
Thats not why i am asking them to stop posting, i am asking them to stop posting because they are fighting with your people. And We shouldnt fight, it only hurts both sides makeing us all look like Flamers, and i am sure you dont want your movement to be know as a bunch of flamers :/ I sure dont.
#779
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:02
RaenImrahl
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From the Forum Rules:
7. No fighting or flame wars. There is no place for fighting and
flaming others on these message boards. Disagreeing with other Community
members is acceptable and understood, but actively fighting and/or
flaming will not be tolerated. Topics that are designed to start a flame
war (defined as abrasive and/or offensive argument that serves no
purpose but to make people mad) or posts made that are discourteous
and/or hostile to other Community members or the discussion at hand will
be treated as Spam and deleted without warning. If someone acts in a
hostile manner to you or to others, DO NOT engage a person or persons
who is fighting. Contact staff or a volunteer moderator and let them
handle the issue. What is considered fighting or flaming is up to the
discretion of staff and volunteer moderators. A person or persons found
to fight with or flame others may be banned from these forums at the
discretion of the staff.
7. No fighting or flame wars. There is no place for fighting and
flaming others on these message boards. Disagreeing with other Community
members is acceptable and understood, but actively fighting and/or
flaming will not be tolerated. Topics that are designed to start a flame
war (defined as abrasive and/or offensive argument that serves no
purpose but to make people mad) or posts made that are discourteous
and/or hostile to other Community members or the discussion at hand will
be treated as Spam and deleted without warning. If someone acts in a
hostile manner to you or to others, DO NOT engage a person or persons
who is fighting. Contact staff or a volunteer moderator and let them
handle the issue. What is considered fighting or flaming is up to the
discretion of staff and volunteer moderators. A person or persons found
to fight with or flame others may be banned from these forums at the
discretion of the staff.
#780
Guest_Paulomedi_*
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:03
Guest_Paulomedi_*
Guest_Paulomedi_*
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Posting once here, just to say:
LET. THIS. THREAD. DIE.
It's doing no favors for people who likes Mass Effect. And I think it's almost everyone here.
LET. THIS. THREAD. DIE.
It's doing no favors for people who likes Mass Effect. And I think it's almost everyone here.
#781
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:03
Lexagg
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Vaktathi wrote...
The book didn't cost $60-80 and have you create your own story within their setting with you as co-creater the way mass effect did. Very different things.
No, no, he is right. I have no right to demand them to change the ending, apparently I just got a wrong game. I'm waiting for them to replace it with the REAL ME3. You know, the one without photoshopped stock photos.
Modifié par Lexagg, 22 mars 2012 - 04:04 .
#782
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:03
Cloaking_Thane
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KTheAlchemist wrote...
CavScout wrote...
Cloaking_Thane wrote...
Lexagg wrote...
Yay, fail analogy! How about this - you purchase a wrapped book that the ad tells you is a noir detective. You bring it home and it's a teen love story about vampires.
Wrong perfect analogy.......and in your fail analogy I can go back and demand it be changed...welcome to the real world
No you don't. You exchange it for the right book. You don't make the author of one book rewrite it so it's the book you want.
You could ask the author to write additional or supplemental publications that explain more or even somewhat recon the story. The author could then decide whether or not this is somethign they want to do.
Yanno that Sherlock Holmes thing that keeps coming up?
Yeah.
Please explain the Dietz novel oh WISE AND POWERFUL CAV?
#784
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:04
rexx1888
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ppls, just let the roll thread die, it cant hurt you :|
hold the line
hold the line
#785
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:04
Hearnishere123
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Ozai75 wrote...
Stop Responding.. report this post and the Thread Starter as a Troll and move ON everyone. Sheesh.
Dont Report... god.. they have the right to voice their own views, if you report, the mods will come and we will lose the stool we stand on. Please just let them be in peace, and lets head back to our threads. No need to do anything drastict
#786
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:04
KTheAlchemist
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ashdrake1 wrote...
KTheAlchemist wrote...
ashdrake1 wrote...
Again diffrence of opinion. Bio delivered a large number of endings
If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:
If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
It may be a tad shy of 18, but it's still a reasonable number. They still delivered a unparalled trip to the end, and for some of us all the way through the end.
Actually, they promised not just "16 endings" (whether or not your list is nit picking I'll leave to an argument that would likely go nowhere), but "wildly divergent endings". Whether or not you can call that list a true list of "different endings" rather than essentially the same ending with utterly minor tweaks, you can't with a straight face say that there was true significant difference between them.
I can honestly say I thought the choices at the end were significant. It took me a bit to decide on what path. I do admit the graphics and emplation of the choices was lazy, that did not matter when the choice was in front of me. Don't get me wrong. I do have issues with end. I enjoyed it, but it did have problems. Why is normandy running? Why is the guy I was on the ground in the ship? How can shepard breath in space?
I have not and will never say the ending is perfect. That is my view as a critic. Making them change it because I had problems with it disrespects the entire journey they led us through. It was thier story not ours, we just got to listen and play around in it a bit.
The thing is? That is never for one second how Mass Effect as a series was sold to us. It was sold to us as a game that was interesting for exactly the reason that it was not "Their story that we only get to listen to", it was "Our story that we get to shape and mold because the game gives us a significant choice framework in which to do so." That is a fantastic potential of the video game medium that is so sorely underutilized in this industry. That was a trend that from the beginnig, Mass Effect promised us and right up until the finale of ME3, they delivered...bizarrely and to many upsettingly throwing away that premise in lieu of a rather railroaded ending.
Again: If they wanted to tell a story with a very predestined ending with very minor tweaks, that is fine. If that is the game they want to make...that is fine. Promising us a different sort of game and then not delivering, however, is what is not fine about all of this.
This is why I don't think it's against "artistic integrity" to simply deliver what was originally promised.
#787
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:05
Lexagg
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rexx1888 wrote...
ppls, just let the roll thread die, it cant hurt you :|
hold the line
Come on, I'm starting to like that guy, some quality material here, not like all those fail trolls who can't come up with a good insult.
#788
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:05
Shallyah
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Seriously, the OP supports The Witcher over Mass Effect, as stated in the threads that were linked before. Also insulted Bioware's developpers and tagged them as incompetent in several ocassions. He/she replied to the post where I exposed him/her conveniently twisting the meaning of it, and skipping the parts that had no possible twisted defense against.
When all else fails, you are taunted with the "your movement is a massive failure" catch line, just the day that the co-founder of Bioware has stated that the team is hard at work to give the fans what we have requested through polite and possitive feedback.
Every post the OP has made in these boards over the past two years has been to taunt and flame the vast majority of the community while insulting the company that now is so fussed about defending it's "artistic integrity", and if you don't believe me just check her posting history. This protector of "artist's integrity" tried rabidly to convince Bioware that they should throw their artistic integrity out the window and not include Liara as squad mate in ME3. The hypocresy is over the roof.
Just let it go already, there's nothing to see here.
When all else fails, you are taunted with the "your movement is a massive failure" catch line, just the day that the co-founder of Bioware has stated that the team is hard at work to give the fans what we have requested through polite and possitive feedback.
Every post the OP has made in these boards over the past two years has been to taunt and flame the vast majority of the community while insulting the company that now is so fussed about defending it's "artistic integrity", and if you don't believe me just check her posting history. This protector of "artist's integrity" tried rabidly to convince Bioware that they should throw their artistic integrity out the window and not include Liara as squad mate in ME3. The hypocresy is over the roof.
Just let it go already, there's nothing to see here.
Modifié par Shallyah, 22 mars 2012 - 04:08 .
#789
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:05
Psychlonus
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Lexagg wrote...
Vaktathi wrote...
The book didn't cost $60-80 and have you create your own story within their setting with you as co-creater the way mass effect did. Very different things.
No, no, he is right. I have no right to demand them to change the ending, apparently I just got a wrong game. I'm waiting for them to replace it with the REAL ME3. You know, the one without photoshopped stock photos.
this
#790
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:05
Davrexx
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I..can't..I just..ugh I can't even be bothered to waste time on detailing how wrong the op is....Pro-Enders must be indocrinated...Like Cerberus they are fighting for the enemy they should be fighting against
There also seems to be a ridiculous notion that if bioware gives in it will mark a turning point that leads to a dystopian future where game develepers live under the opressive tyranny of the fans.
There also seems to be a ridiculous notion that if bioware gives in it will mark a turning point that leads to a dystopian future where game develepers live under the opressive tyranny of the fans.
#791
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:05
JulienJaden
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Oh, it's this thread again. It's changed a bit.
Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your own opinion. I'm not questioning that.
But since when is pointing out flaws and giant plotholes in a narrative compromising artistic integrity?
A writer who can't take criticism, who can't admit it when there's something wrong with something he wants to introduce at all costs despite a significant amount of people telling him about it, is a writer who will most likely mess up many more potentially good stories. No matter how attached you are to a story or an element of it: If something has to go, because it doesn't fit at all and makes the rest of it look ridiculous, it has to go.
I've been through this myself. I've had some stories with elements I wanted to keep at all costs. I was blind to the issues and it took a couple of days of intense fighting and discussion until I gave in.
And don't say anything like "Then you should have fought for it, made it work, protected your integrity". Being unable to listen to criticism doesn't make me a man of integrity. It makes me a bad writer. A good writer can swallow his pride. Scrapping bits that don't fit and listening to valid criticism and feedback does wonders to your standards.
Creative risk is to do something new, something unprecedented, something that will appall many people.
However, ending a well thought-out story with something that changes pace, mood, theme and that can only be described through the use of several literary devices (some of which, I might add, are not meant positive and are a sign of bad writing) is bad, not brave. When the alternative is a satisfying (or even a bittersweet) ending that doesn't introduce Ewoks as the Reapers' mortal enemies and demise during the last five minutes and that is still in line with the story and not dismissing established 'facts', then that is better.
Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your own opinion. I'm not questioning that.
But since when is pointing out flaws and giant plotholes in a narrative compromising artistic integrity?
A writer who can't take criticism, who can't admit it when there's something wrong with something he wants to introduce at all costs despite a significant amount of people telling him about it, is a writer who will most likely mess up many more potentially good stories. No matter how attached you are to a story or an element of it: If something has to go, because it doesn't fit at all and makes the rest of it look ridiculous, it has to go.
I've been through this myself. I've had some stories with elements I wanted to keep at all costs. I was blind to the issues and it took a couple of days of intense fighting and discussion until I gave in.
And don't say anything like "Then you should have fought for it, made it work, protected your integrity". Being unable to listen to criticism doesn't make me a man of integrity. It makes me a bad writer. A good writer can swallow his pride. Scrapping bits that don't fit and listening to valid criticism and feedback does wonders to your standards.
Creative risk is to do something new, something unprecedented, something that will appall many people.
However, ending a well thought-out story with something that changes pace, mood, theme and that can only be described through the use of several literary devices (some of which, I might add, are not meant positive and are a sign of bad writing) is bad, not brave. When the alternative is a satisfying (or even a bittersweet) ending that doesn't introduce Ewoks as the Reapers' mortal enemies and demise during the last five minutes and that is still in line with the story and not dismissing established 'facts', then that is better.
Modifié par JulienJaden, 22 mars 2012 - 04:07 .
#792
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:06
Zine2
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The letter just shows how delusional Bioware is.
They are _still_ claiming "vocal minority".
Also, defending the ending of ME3 is not defending artistic integrity. It is defending bloated egos of people who have written a certifiably bad and offensive ending.
They are _still_ claiming "vocal minority".
Also, defending the ending of ME3 is not defending artistic integrity. It is defending bloated egos of people who have written a certifiably bad and offensive ending.
Modifié par Zine2, 22 mars 2012 - 04:07 .
#793
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:06
Hearnishere123
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rexx1888 wrote...
ppls, just let the roll thread die, it cant hurt you :|
hold the line
This is what i am talking about... minus calling them trolls. But we should let them be and leave.
#794
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:06
shenlonzero
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and once again, this is all your opinions. during the top rant, it seems like a few jabs are made at people who are not happy with the endings. people have that right to be unsatisfied, just as you have the right to make a forum to directly refute them. but...it's about opinion. by saying that they are wrong, you are deflating your own argument.
also, to state that the ending is perfect, hardly. for one, why is joker doing random mass effect relay jumps. did someone tell him to go? cause last i checked, he's just a pilot. anyone know his rank? is it captain or commander, or admiral? no? okay, then why is he making some random decision to run away. i don't see anyone else in the alliance or any other forces taking flight and running through relays. and then to what...land on a random planet where we get a hallmark moment after the credits...basically making it all into one big story that some old man is telling a kid. so...was it even true or just some bedtime story? and why...why is that little kid representing the one who controls the reapers? i'm sorry but the kid became too much of a focal point in telling that part of the story. its much better just making the kid represent the innocent and parts of humanity shep can't save.
while you can say that it is flawless and just can accept what you've been given, obvious plot holes that shouldn't be there, do in fact exist, and without proper explanation and the feeling of being rushed, people should be upset if they spent all this time to get to the end and feel like they, their Shepard, and all the crew got screwed. don't misunderstand, i hate the idea of a black and white style ending, but after all that work, the ending should have been better... and i have a hard time believing that we got "their best" cause after years and years...they still couldn't show us a quarian face that they designed...nope...photoshopped picture off the internet...that's what we got. plenty of great opportunities where Shepard openly sees Tali...but we do not. and that's after saying they wouldn't show it if they couldn't do it justice.... they half assed it. the ending feels like that after shepard makes his final decision. after the final decision is made by shepard.... mainly cause of joker running through a mass effect relay. pretty sure it would have been better had the crew been stuck on earth minus the hallmark moment...but again..my opinion, i'm entitled, just as you are entitled to be blown away.
also, to state that the ending is perfect, hardly. for one, why is joker doing random mass effect relay jumps. did someone tell him to go? cause last i checked, he's just a pilot. anyone know his rank? is it captain or commander, or admiral? no? okay, then why is he making some random decision to run away. i don't see anyone else in the alliance or any other forces taking flight and running through relays. and then to what...land on a random planet where we get a hallmark moment after the credits...basically making it all into one big story that some old man is telling a kid. so...was it even true or just some bedtime story? and why...why is that little kid representing the one who controls the reapers? i'm sorry but the kid became too much of a focal point in telling that part of the story. its much better just making the kid represent the innocent and parts of humanity shep can't save.
while you can say that it is flawless and just can accept what you've been given, obvious plot holes that shouldn't be there, do in fact exist, and without proper explanation and the feeling of being rushed, people should be upset if they spent all this time to get to the end and feel like they, their Shepard, and all the crew got screwed. don't misunderstand, i hate the idea of a black and white style ending, but after all that work, the ending should have been better... and i have a hard time believing that we got "their best" cause after years and years...they still couldn't show us a quarian face that they designed...nope...photoshopped picture off the internet...that's what we got. plenty of great opportunities where Shepard openly sees Tali...but we do not. and that's after saying they wouldn't show it if they couldn't do it justice.... they half assed it. the ending feels like that after shepard makes his final decision. after the final decision is made by shepard.... mainly cause of joker running through a mass effect relay. pretty sure it would have been better had the crew been stuck on earth minus the hallmark moment...but again..my opinion, i'm entitled, just as you are entitled to be blown away.
#795
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:06
frostajulie
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I am glad "so many" found delight in the ending that consisted of suicide, suicide, and suicide in 3 colors. I do however hope your movement fails there was nothing artistic about the ending and I do not think you understand the meaning of the word integrity.
The developers said the ending would not be a choice between door A B or C.
Lie.
They said that there would be many different endings. 3 different ways to kill yourself that all end the same is not many different endings.
Lie
When people lie that is actually called a LACK of integrity.
The developers said the ending would not be a choice between door A B or C.
Lie.
They said that there would be many different endings. 3 different ways to kill yourself that all end the same is not many different endings.
Lie
When people lie that is actually called a LACK of integrity.
#796
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:06
Ozai75
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RaenImrahl wrote...
From the Forum Rules:
7. No fighting or flame wars. There is no place for fighting and
flaming others on these message boards. Disagreeing with other Community
members is acceptable and understood, but actively fighting and/or
flaming will not be tolerated. Topics that are designed to start a flame
war (defined as abrasive and/or offensive argument that serves no
purpose but to make people mad) or posts made that are discourteous
and/or hostile to other Community members or the discussion at hand will
be treated as Spam and deleted without warning. If someone acts in a
hostile manner to you or to others, DO NOT engage a person or persons
who is fighting. Contact staff or a volunteer moderator and let them
handle the issue. What is considered fighting or flaming is up to the
discretion of staff and volunteer moderators. A person or persons found
to fight with or flame others may be banned from these forums at the
discretion of the staff.
^ This. Thank you.
#797
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:06
MintyCool
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RaenImrahl wrote...
From the Forum Rules:
7. No fighting or flame wars. There is no place for fighting and
flaming others on these message boards. Disagreeing with other Community
members is acceptable and understood, but actively fighting and/or
flaming will not be tolerated. Topics that are designed to start a flame
war (defined as abrasive and/or offensive argument that serves no
purpose but to make people mad) or posts made that are discourteous
and/or hostile to other Community members or the discussion at hand will
be treated as Spam and deleted without warning. If someone acts in a
hostile manner to you or to others, DO NOT engage a person or persons
who is fighting. Contact staff or a volunteer moderator and let them
handle the issue. What is considered fighting or flaming is up to the
discretion of staff and volunteer moderators. A person or persons found
to fight with or flame others may be banned from these forums at the
discretion of the staff.
Would your mind pming every Retake member that seems to spam the thread with, "Let this thread die."
It hurts good discussions that are happening with-in this thread.
Modifié par MintyCool, 22 mars 2012 - 04:06 .
#798
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:07
ashdrake1
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KTheAlchemist wrote...
CavScout wrote...
Cloaking_Thane wrote...
Lexagg wrote...
Yay, fail analogy! How about this - you purchase a wrapped book that the ad tells you is a noir detective. You bring it home and it's a teen love story about vampires.
Wrong perfect analogy.......and in your fail analogy I can go back and demand it be changed...welcome to the real world
No you don't. You exchange it for the right book. You don't make the author of one book rewrite it so it's the book you want.
You could ask the author to write additional or supplemental publications that explain more or even somewhat recon the story. The author could then decide whether or not this is somethign they want to do.
Yanno that Sherlock Holmes thing that keeps coming up?
Yeah.
Why do people keep bringing up sherlock holmes? Holmes stayed dead for 8 years despite cries from fans. it was Doyle seeing a ghostly hound that prompted him to bring back the character. He wanted to do anouther mystery and decided not to create a new character as he already had one he was familer with.
#799
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:07
Hearnishere123
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Zine2 wrote...
The letter just shows how delusional Bioware is.
They are _still_ claiming "vocal minority".
Retake Mass Effect right? then take this to our home thread please, no need to say that here where it WILL cause flameing...
#800
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:07
Lexagg
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MintyCool wrote...
Would your mind pming every Retake member that seems to spam the thread with, "Let this thread die."
It hurts good discussions that are happening with-in this thread.
Oh yeah, let me just establish mental links with our hive mind... BZZZZT... done! Our great collective shall no longer be a threat to your upstart campaign.
