874 réponses à ce sujet

[Hearnishere123]

Shallyah wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

InfiniteDemise wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

It hurts good discussions that are happening with-in this thread.

Still waiting.

A shame, then, that the "real majority", being so massive and all, can't
manage to reverse the negative reviews on metacritic and amazon, eh?

How many more times are you going to copy and paste this post? I suggest 4.

Typical troll comment.

If you know its a troll, then dont stay, this thread is for them, not us, and its not helping the cause.

[ShepGep]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that it isn't an ending, has no conclusion, and you have no idea whether it's real, you really defeated the reapers, what really happened to your crew, or the state of the galaxy after the battle. If it is real...do I really have to list the dozens of plotholes that have been listed around this forum for weeks? If it isn't real and is indoctrination/dreaming...okay...Shepard does/doesn't wake up...now what happens? No ending, no conclusion.

This is "artistic integrity" the same way splashing random paint all over a canvas is. It may be "different", but that doesn't mean it's good, unique, or artistic for that matter.

Modifié par ShepGep, 22 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[CavScout]

Mahrac wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...
Nothing.  The issue is giving into these demands.  That is what compromises artistic integrity.  So what if you had issues with their story?  It's their story, they spent years telling it.  Pride in ones work is paramount to a true artist.  It is thier view they are expressing.  Changing it into something else because of complaints and money ( cause they will charge you for it) does not really reflect the views of the writers, but pressure from the publishers.

There is no such thing as ARTISTIC INTEGRITY IN CONSUMER PRODUCT.

George Lucas laughs at you and says "Greedo shot first!"

and we laugh back and say "no he didn't!'

You can say it but go try and buy the movie, or see it's release in 3D. George will win.

[ashdrake1]

Dreogan wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

It makes no diffrence on my views if the david or mass effect fall out of favor with other people.  I still remeber the first time I played pac man, or when kefka destroyed the world and meeting a crazy ranger with a hamster.  Games are art.  They have had a lasting impact on my life.  I can only describe my feelings on your views as heartbreaking.  To invest so much time on something that has so little meaning.

And I would consider it equally heartbreaking to see someone attempt to find meaning where there is none.

If that is case, then why are you so demanding a diffrent ending?  You consumed it, why not throw it away?  If it has no meaning to you why would a diffrent ending matter?  

[Storenumber9]

It's kind of sad how fast this thread has degenerated.

An honest attempt to defend the endings, but it might not be a good idea to insult the Retake Mass Effect movement. Even if you think it's excused because "they did it first," it still makes you look bad.


As bad as IGN and Colin Moriarty.

Do you wanna look like Colin Moriarty?

[Psychlonus]

Shallyah wrote...

Seriously, the OP supports The Witcher over Mass Effect, as stated in the threads that were linked before. Also insulted Bioware's developpers and tagged them as incompetent in several ocassions. He/she replied to the post where I exposed him/her conveniently twisting the meaning of it, and skipping the parts that had no possible twisted defense against.

When all else fails, you are taunted with the "your movement is a massive failure" catch line, just the day that the co-founder of Bioware has stated that the team is hard at work to give the fans what we have requested through polite and possitive feedback.

Every post the OP has made in these boards over the past two years has been to taunt and flame the vast majority of the community while insulting the company that now is so fussed about defending it's "artistic integrity", and if you don't believe me just check her posting history. This protector of "artist's integrity" tried rabidly to convince Bioware that they should throw their artistic integrity out the window and not include Liara as squad mate in ME3. The hypocresy is over the roof.



Just let it go already, there's nothing to see here.

This needs to be read...

[Hearnishere123]

Nobrandminda wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

You may not like my reply but your movement is a massive fail.

The mainstream media, public, and game development community, view you as nothing more than a vocal minority.

This is even mentioned here:www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/21/mass-effect-3-a-dangerous-precedent

I mean, when Ken Levine, creator of Bioshock states his displeasure about your movements intentions it's not exactly a good thing...

Fade away, time of the real majority to have a say.

Checkmate.

Okay, if we're the minority, where is the majority?  

Are they on the BSN?
Obviously not or you wouldn't be sitting here.

Are they on facebook?  
No.  The Retake Mass Effect page has about 50,000 likes compared to a few hundred on the "Support Bioware" page someone linked the other day.

Are they on twitter?
No.  The equivalent twitter groups have similar numbers to the facebook ones.  And looking at the tweets directed at Mass Effect 3 shows a disparity.  For that matter, Damon Lindelof, one of the producers of Lost got some pretty positive feedback for making a joke at Mass Effect 3's expense: https://twitter.com/...263625082355712 

Do they have a donation drive going to some charity?
Not that I know of.

Are they watching youtube videos?
Not if the like to dislike ratio on these videos are any indication.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYLTbQQEZQ

Are they in the comment section of those gamer magazine articles you keep mentioning?  
You tell me.  You already have links to a bunch of them in your original post.  What does the feedback in the comment section say?

Dont, just stop... -been typeing like crazt to stop yall-  please if you dont agree with this thread, then we shouldnt be here. Retake members, head back to the line, and leave the front lines... for us all

[Hearnishere123]

Storenumber9 wrote...

It's kind of sad how fast this thread has degenerated.

An honest attempt to defend the endings, but it might not be a good idea to insult the Retake Mass Effect movement. Even if you think it's excused because "they did it first," it still makes you look bad.


As bad as IGN and Colin Moriarty.

Do you wanna look like Colin Moriarty?

<.< Leave please, no need for us to be hear, and no need to say that.

[ashdrake1]

Lexagg wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I am glad "so many" found delight in the ending that consisted of suicide, suicide, and suicide in 3 colors. I do however hope your movement fails there was nothing artistic about the ending and I do not think you understand the meaning of the word integrity.

The developers said the ending would not be a choice between door A B or C.

Lie.

They said that there would be many different endings. 3 different ways to kill yourself that all end the same is not many different endings.

Lie

When people lie that is actually called a LACK of integrity.

Hint hint: they aren't actually reading, so don't bother arguing. Just go with the flow.

It is a fact there are 16 diffrent endings.  It has been stated before on this thread.  Just because you don't find them satisfying does not make it any less true

[Psychlonus]

CavScout wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...
Nothing.  The issue is giving into these demands.  That is what compromises artistic integrity.  So what if you had issues with their story?  It's their story, they spent years telling it.  Pride in ones work is paramount to a true artist.  It is thier view they are expressing.  Changing it into something else because of complaints and money ( cause they will charge you for it) does not really reflect the views of the writers, but pressure from the publishers.

There is no such thing as ARTISTIC INTEGRITY IN CONSUMER PRODUCT.

George Lucas laughs at you and says "Greedo shot first!"

and we laugh back and say "no he didn't!'

You can say it but go try and buy the movie, or see it's release in 3D. George will win.

But Jar Jar Binks lost. He was all but written out of the Saga after the epic fail in Ep 1.

[Cgrissom]

111987 wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

Nailed it. That ending isn't perfect, but it achieves what it set out to do, and is consistent with the themes of the game.
Leaving some points open like the future of the Krogan is a good thing. It makes you think, in a good way. 
Not saying who survived the final battle: less so, but that at least can be realistically addressed.

By the way there is no such thing as momentum. All creative decisions rest with Bioware. If this is a democracy, then the only way you can vote is with your wallet. And you already did, game registered and all.

And honestly, I'm not sure what the "Retake Mass Effect" crowd hopes to achieve. Retcon the whole game? Just show me one way of doing it that's practical and consistent, and a net benefit for Bioware and I'll sign on, but I've yet to see that.

OP however if you want to avoid intense flaming, I suggest you edit out any "momentum is ours" and "we know we are right". That's just not nice, whatever the topic.

Whatever Bioware does, I predict these forums will still be a hotbed of whine 6 months from now.

The mission of the Retake movement from what i've seen is the addition of more choices in the endings to satisfy a greater number of people without actually altering the current endings for those who like them. Not one person has said anything about retconning the whole game.

This. Exactly this. Add to and not take away or change. This is what we're asking for. More options as we were promised, not "delete the old options" or "betray your artistic integrity from when you wrote the other endings".

I don't think the message of the Retakers is exactly the same. A lot of people want a lot of different things, from clarification on plot points, to indoctrination theory, to an entirely new ending, etc...

Well, it's true that different people want different things, I'm mainly going by what the people I've spoken to have said they wanted. Just like their are pro-ending people who oppose the Retake movement for reasons other than artistic integrity. You'll never see a large group of people with complete consensus on what they want.

[Lexagg]

CavScout wrote...

You can say it but go try and buy the movie, or see it's release in 3D. George will win.

This is why we don't. And this is what I'm saying to BioWare. You can chose to preserve your "lolartistic integrity" or you can retain customers. They have a choice. Which is already more than we had in ME3.

[KTheAlchemist]

111987 wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

Nailed it. That ending isn't perfect, but it achieves what it set out to do, and is consistent with the themes of the game.
Leaving some points open like the future of the Krogan is a good thing. It makes you think, in a good way. 
Not saying who survived the final battle: less so, but that at least can be realistically addressed.

By the way there is no such thing as momentum. All creative decisions rest with Bioware. If this is a democracy, then the only way you can vote is with your wallet. And you already did, game registered and all.

And honestly, I'm not sure what the "Retake Mass Effect" crowd hopes to achieve. Retcon the whole game? Just show me one way of doing it that's practical and consistent, and a net benefit for Bioware and I'll sign on, but I've yet to see that.

OP however if you want to avoid intense flaming, I suggest you edit out any "momentum is ours" and "we know we are right". That's just not nice, whatever the topic.

Whatever Bioware does, I predict these forums will still be a hotbed of whine 6 months from now.

The mission of the Retake movement from what i've seen is the addition of more choices in the endings to satisfy a greater number of people without actually altering the current endings for those who like them. Not one person has said anything about retconning the whole game.

This. Exactly this. Add to and not take away or change. This is what we're asking for. More options as we were promised, not "delete the old options" or "betray your artistic integrity from when you wrote the other endings".

I don't think the message of the Retakers is exactly the same. A lot of people want a lot of different things, from clarification on plot points, to indoctrination theory, to an entirely new ending, etc...

Well, I mean I guess that depends on  your definition of "entirely new ending". I sincerely doubt that if one of the new endings was telling the StarGodKid to take a hike with his arguments about organics and synthetics and then goes on to save the galaxy on the terms of its people and not the StarGodKid, that people who want a more positive and true to Shepards character ending would complain because it didn't erase the entire sequence. Maybe a little, but not honestly all that much, and if that had been there in the first place you'd probably see a great deal fewer complaints.

It would also take care of people who are upset by a number of plot holes created by the existing ending, as well.

In the end while we don't all agree on exactly what the worst part of the ending is, I think that it's generally agreed that the specific way it goes down is problematic, and the very narrow scope of endings is what takes the cake.

Even just that branch of taking the "tell the starkid to shove it" scenario could have a lot of siginficant variance created by actually showing what happens. Depending on what our character did, they could end up spending their days in different manners...maybe they retire from the military forever and help build a colony somewhere, maybe they go off and explore the galaxy with Liara, maybe they help Tali rebuild the Quarian homeworld...and maybe Garrus did this or Wrex did that. If you take a certain path maybe shepard helps the galaxy defeat the reapers on its own terms but dies a hero in the process. The point is actually seeing the consequences of our actions.

[CavScout]

True, but it has happen before, Look at Fallout 2 [maybe 3 i dont know because i only read about it] but they have changed their ending because fans did not like it.

They added an expansion pack that took gameplay far beyond the game original ending. It was darn near a sequal.

[CavScout]

leondes1 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

You realize the the game "journalists"(LOL) that posted articles in favor of the endings were paid to do so right?

" if you don't not agree us, you are  EA/Bioware's puppet"

Another Retake ME 3 cult motto.

Civility and Respect? lol

 

Another troll overgeneralization. Thank you for trying to group all of us together. Nothing there says what you just posted.

Two posts up from your post is a RMEer saying the OP is a shill for Bioware.... this thread is filled with comments like that. It is not isolated.

[j78]

Storenumber9 wrote...

It's kind of sad how fast this thread has degenerated.

An honest attempt to defend the endings, but it might not be a good idea to insult the Retake Mass Effect movement. Even if you think it's excused because "they did it first," it still makes you look bad.


As bad as IGN and Colin Moriarty.

Do you wanna look like Colin Moriarty?

You’re a mean ,mean person no one want’s to look like that bald woman with a nasty dispastion .

[ashdrake1]

KTheAlchemist wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...


Again diffrence of opinion.  Bio delivered a large number of endings

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.


It may be a tad shy of 18, but it's still a reasonable number.  They still delivered a unparalled trip to the end, and for some of us all the way through the end.  

Actually, they promised not just "16 endings" (whether or not your list is nit picking I'll leave to an argument that would likely go nowhere), but "wildly divergent endings". Whether or not you can call that list a true list of "different endings" rather than essentially the same ending with utterly minor tweaks, you can't with a straight face say that there was true significant difference between them.

I can honestly say I thought the choices at the end were significant.  It took me a bit to decide on what path.  I do admit the graphics and emplation of the choices was lazy, that did not matter when the choice was in front of me.  Don't get me wrong.  I do have issues with end.  I enjoyed it, but it did have problems.  Why is normandy running?  Why is the guy I was on the ground in the ship?  How can shepard breath in space? 

I have not and will never say the ending is perfect.  That is my view as a critic.  Making them change it because I had problems with it disrespects the entire journey they led us through.  It was thier story not ours, we just got to listen and play around in it a bit.

The thing is? That is never for one second how Mass Effect as a series was sold to us. It was sold to us as a game that was interesting for exactly the reason that it was not "Their story that we only get to listen to", it was "Our story that we get to shape and mold because the game gives us a significant choice framework in which to do so." That is a fantastic potential of the video game medium that is so sorely underutilized in this industry. That was a trend that from the beginnig, Mass Effect promised us and right up until the finale of ME3, they delivered...bizarrely and to many upsettingly throwing away that premise in lieu of a rather railroaded ending.

Again: If they wanted to tell a story with a very predestined ending with very minor tweaks, that is fine. If that is the game they want to make...that is fine. Promising us a different sort of game and then not delivering, however, is what is not fine about all of this.

This is why I don't think it's against "artistic integrity" to simply deliver what was originally promised.

The thing is it was always the same story.  Each game ended the same with very minor differences.  This is painfully apperant when Udina is on the council  and the all the sudden there is anouther raccni regardless of the choices you made.  It was nothing more than a choose your own adventure.  You were able to modify the story a bit, but the same story was always being told.

[Psychlonus]

Psychlonus wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Seriously, the OP supports The Witcher over Mass Effect, as stated in the threads that were linked before. Also insulted Bioware's developpers and tagged them as incompetent in several ocassions. He/she replied to the post where I exposed him/her conveniently twisting the meaning of it, and skipping the parts that had no possible twisted defense against.

When all else fails, you are taunted with the "your movement is a massive failure" catch line, just the day that the co-founder of Bioware has stated that the team is hard at work to give the fans what we have requested through polite and possitive feedback.

Every post the OP has made in these boards over the past two years has been to taunt and flame the vast majority of the community while insulting the company that now is so fussed about defending it's "artistic integrity", and if you don't believe me just check her posting history. This protector of "artist's integrity" tried rabidly to convince Bioware that they should throw their artistic integrity out the window and not include Liara as squad mate in ME3. The hypocresy is over the roof.



Just let it go already, there's nothing to see here.

This needs to be read...

[s.nebulous]

I don’t believe Bioware should be backed into a corner from either camp.

I find it hypocritical to argue it is their art, and then conclude they are not free to change or add to it if they wish.

[CavScout]

KTheAlchemist wrote...

This game was marketed and sold on choice, and choice that creates different plots and different resolutions. Bottom line, you can't expect to offer that and still offer a single "artistic vision" story. It's just not a realistic thing to offer. So, if they wanted to tell a story with a very narrow set of endings, they shouldn't have marketed it as something else.

The game had choices, plenty of them. That you don't like some of the choices doesn't negate the choices it did offer.

[MintyCool]

Psychlonus wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Seriously, the OP supports The Witcher over Mass Effect, as stated in the threads that were linked before...

This needs to be read...

Yes, I enjoy the Witcher, Jade Empire, and Baulders Gate. This information makes my opinions completely invalid...

Modifié par MintyCool, 22 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[RamilVenoard]

Ok so let me preface this by saying that I am not trolling, flaming or otherwise instigating a fight. I simply would like to state my point of view in regards to the game's ending. Yes, I am a supporter of the Retake Mass Effect group, but no, that does not mean I am a raving lunatic demanding that art be destroyed for the sake of my own personal closure to the series. So please don't misinterpret them and to RaenImrahl, moderating this discussing, please don't ban me because I am being respectful.

So we must first acknowledge the difference between autonomous art, and commissioned art. Yes the game was artistic and extremely well crafted, but to me it seemed as if it aspired to be autonomous art while remaining within the confines of commissioned art--the difference being one is made for an anonymous buyer while the latter is crafted according to the promises of the artist to the buyer. My soul concern is that I feel somewhat betrayed by the lack of truth in the marketing campaign launched by BioWare in the months prior to the game's release.

I do not necessarily "demand" a better ending (although I realize that is what the facebook group is called, I am well aware), but I would like BioWare to uphold the trust that I have placed in them.

In conclusion,. let me add that if I have insulted anyone in any way, or if I have instigated a fight by posting this, I will be more than happy to remove this post.

[Cody211282]

How the **** is this thread still around?

[leondes1]

Retake people, please pull out. Nothing good will come from staying here.