874 réponses à ce sujet

[Konfined]

Edit: on second thought, withdrawing back to the line.

Modifié par Konfined, 22 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[Eulalia Danae]

s.nebulous wrote...

I don’t believe Bioware should be backed into a corner from either camp.

I find it hypocritical to argue it is their art, and then conclude they are not free to change or add to it if they wish.

As an artist--who has to edit her work all the time--I appreciate that viewpoint quite a bit. Thank you.

[agentofatlas7]

Lexagg wrote...

KTheAlchemist wrote...

This. Exactly this. Add to and not take away or change. This is what we're asking for. More options as we were promised, not "delete the old options" or "betray your artistic integrity from when you wrote the other endings".

There must be something about this statement that makes the soundwaves collapse in some strange manner, because no matter how many times it has been said, I have yet to see a single person respond, or even acknowledge it.

I agree.

Also, I see nothing creative in the ending of ME3. When I got to the end and the catalyst was explaining the choices, all my I could think of was JC Denton and Deus Ex. Worse part that it was so blatant too.

As for artistic integrity, well I not going to pretend to be an expert on it. Many knowledgeable people on other threads have very good counter arguments about the artistic value of ME. In my opinion ME is more product than "art".

[CavScout]

Vaktathi wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

Yay, fail analogy! How about this - you purchase a wrapped book that the ad tells you is a noir detective. You bring it home and it's a teen love story about vampires.

Wrong perfect analogy.......and in your fail analogy I can go back and demand it be changed...welcome to the real world

No you don't. You exchange it for the right book. You don't make the author of one book rewrite it so it's the book you want.

The book didn't cost $60-80 and have you create your own story within their setting with you as co-creater the way mass effect did. Very different things. 

If I didn't like a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book, I never in my wildest dreams thought to demand the authors rewrite the books in my vision....

[Hearnishere123]

Any Retake members still left, please return to the line and leave the front lines, we do not need ANYONE causeing drama or fights.

[Axialbloom]

Sorry, the 'artistic freedom' defense does not hunt, and is a complete cop-out for anything that is complete rubbish.

[avmf8]

ashdrake1 wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I am glad "so many" found delight in the ending that consisted of suicide, suicide, and suicide in 3 colors. I do however hope your movement fails there was nothing artistic about the ending and I do not think you understand the meaning of the word integrity.

The developers said the ending would not be a choice between door A B or C.

Lie.

They said that there would be many different endings. 3 different ways to kill yourself that all end the same is not many different endings.

Lie

When people lie that is actually called a LACK of integrity.

Hint hint: they aren't actually reading, so don't bother arguing. Just go with the flow.

It is a fact there are 16 diffrent endings.  It has been stated before on this thread.  Just because you don't find them satisfying does not make it any less true

Really 16 endings? Ok then explain these 16 endings to me at most I saw was 4 if you include the one of earth getting destroyed. The other 3 are mostly the same the destroy the reapers is slightly different but not by much. Mostly its a different color since the endings are not different if it does not show the outcome. I don't mean the idea of the ending is the same but what you see on screen bassically is.

[CavScout]

InfiniteDemise wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Hey Pro-Enders, anyone notice the massive cult-like responses from Retake? They feel that if they simply "stop posting" well simply just fade away and they will dominate the forum again? As if we won't continue to keep updating this thread....

How incredibly laughable.

Still waiting for this:

A shame, then, that the "real majority", being so massive and all, can't
manage to reverse the negative reviews on metacritic and amazon, eh?

Bombing reviews is bombing reviews. It's why crowd-sourced reviews are pretty damm worthless.

[KTheAlchemist]

Opsrbest wrote...

I can. Three endings are based on Three completely individual ideologies.

You Either kill the Reapers or you don't.

You Either Control the Reapers or you don't.

You either make the Galaxy races synthetic hybrids or you don't.

The Citadel, the Mass Relays, the inaxplicable Normandy run while the Relays are being destroyed. All of that is secondary endings. Yes you get one main ending that depicts in a cinimatic what happens when you make a choice in the game and how the game ends. BUT THAT IS NOT THE ENDING you choose.

You choose to kill the Reapers or you don't.

You choose to Control the Reapers or you don't.

You choose to make the Galaxy races synthetic hybrids or you don't.

Either way YOU CHOOSE HOW THE GAME ENDS you just don't get to choose what the effects of that decision are.

You're not listing differences, you're just listing endings. Part of the problem is that as far as what we the players actually get to see, what difference those choices make is largely academic. The entire game leading up to that ending with the exception of some minor tweaks from galactic readiness and war assets is largely discarded.

Not to mention an extremely obvious choice of "I reject your solution" isn't even an option.

As for "primary ending" "secondary ending" we're talking about terms you yourself are assigning to the content at this point. They're not really universally agreed upon terms so it's hard to have a cogent discussion using them. At best it's splitting hairs.

The thing is, if we don't see the consequences of our decisions, than the decisions didn't actually matter except in the realm of personal questioning, which I could have done entirely without playing the game. Especially without playing the ending. I coudl shut off the game at the laser strike and sit around my apartment for the rest of the evening going "Hmm...I wonder what happened." That still wasn't an experience of "the ending" that Bioware provided.

And they promised us that the consequences would reflect our decisions, and matter.

[leondes1]

Hearnishere123 wrote...

Any Retake members still left, please return to the line and leave the front lines, we do not need ANYONE causeing drama or fights.

We all agree on this point. Staying here your just risk yourselves.

[ashdrake1]

avmf8 wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I am glad "so many" found delight in the ending that consisted of suicide, suicide, and suicide in 3 colors. I do however hope your movement fails there was nothing artistic about the ending and I do not think you understand the meaning of the word integrity.

The developers said the ending would not be a choice between door A B or C.

Lie.

They said that there would be many different endings. 3 different ways to kill yourself that all end the same is not many different endings.

Lie

When people lie that is actually called a LACK of integrity.

Hint hint: they aren't actually reading, so don't bother arguing. Just go with the flow.

It is a fact there are 16 diffrent endings.  It has been stated before on this thread.  Just because you don't find them satisfying does not make it any less true

Really 16 endings? Ok then explain these 16 endings to me at most I saw was 4 if you include the one of earth getting destroyed. The other 3 are mostly the same the destroy the reapers is slightly different but not by much. Mostly its a different color since the endings are not different if it does not show the outcome. I don't mean the idea of the ending is the same but what you see on screen bassically is.

I shall copy paste again.

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.

16 diffrent outcomes it does not boil down to the three choices, sometimes you don't get three choices.  You get the ending you create.

[MrLee95]

I am so sorry, I am trying my best to get Retake members out of the thread, please bare with us as we try to stop this peacefully.

And FYI I told yall a mod would come if you reported the thread -.-;

Retake members, please leave, I dont know how many time I have to keep asking kindly, but us being here isnt helping anyone. This is not "Holding the line" This is "Charge and kill them al" And we dont need that, so please stop and leave :/

I understand that there is always going to be different views on things. And I welcome people opinions and discussing them.

 

But when I see a statement like what I quoted above.... makes you absolutely no better than some of the people who are being negative. You just want people to take what you say as TRUTH. You want nobody to discuss
anything with you because you don’t believe in their viewpoints.

Read the #retakemasseffects mission statement. I clearly states “The #RetakeMassEffect movement does not in any way condone attacks or insults on Bioware, EA, Bioware employees, or anyone associated with them. We
are not here to make enemies. We are here to show a company that their devoted fan base has been hurt, and alienated with some of their actions, and to ask for an explanation, and hopefully a solution.”

 I am one of the people who sticks to that statement and like to hear EVERYSIDE of an argument no matter if I liked the ending or not. (IN this case I do not).

So if you want to stick to your guns and do a “Pro-Enders” group then you are going to have the other side coming in here with their opinions. That’s what we “Pro-Ending Haters” get in our threads.

Either ignore them or discuss it with them. 

Modifié par MrLee95, 22 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[Amialis666]

MintyCool wrote...

InfiniteDemise wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

It hurts good discussions that are happening with-in this thread.

Still waiting.

A shame, then, that the "real majority", being so massive and all, can't
manage to reverse the negative reviews on metacritic and amazon, eh?

How many more times are you going to copy and paste this post? I suggest 4.

It is a valid question... 
The whole premise of your argument seems to be, that they shouldn't change ending because of the 'Vocal Minority'

However there is a question to be raise by the vocal minority argument...

I will admit, to a certain exctent there will be a slight discrepancy in the polls and reviews, because people upset with the ending will look for a way to vent their rage...

However, if the minority is as small as you claim then in the big picture it shouldn't make that big of difference...

Basically what you are suggesting is that the ending was good, but not good enough for the majority who likes it to partake in polls, visit the community forums, or even write reviews that promote this position?

Oviouslly, the vocal community disatisfied with the endings is larger than the vocal community happy with the endings. 

As well... would you call into question the reviews for ME2, claiming that the majority of those polled and who wrote reviews were just the 'vocal minority'? No.

The polls and reviews are valid.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

MintyCool wrote...


I did post the above.... So quick to attack someone over nothing... Anyways....

I will try to respond best I can, if I missed your argument please repost it and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

You posted that after what I said. And what I said still holds true. You have yet to respond to any of the many posters here who are somewhat naively posting earnest arguments against the artistic and commercial merits of the ending. All you are doing is preening yourself and trying to shove a "me versus the world" dichotomy down everyone's throats.

Let me make very clear that I am not in the Retake movement. I also don't believe that BioWare should change the endings based on a popular outcry (which the Retake movement is, more so than a vocal minority) because I fear that anything forced on the developer would end up being an egregious abomination of mass-mindedness. I feel that the damage is done and it is what it is, but that doesn't mean that I won't spend a little time trying to represent exactly what you claim to: artistic integrity.

Whether or not video games are art, or their consumers have a right to demand a stake in their creative process, is not for any of us to decide. It is up to the developers. Just because something is produced in a visual or narrative medium does not on its own give it artistic merit. Likewise, just because something is art does not render it free from criticism. If developers want to attempt to make video games an artistic medium (I would argue that they are not) then I fully support such an initiative. 

But developers will never begin making games that can be honestly appraised as art unless they recieve criticism for their artistic blunders, and utilize flexibility to adapt and grow through the medium just like any artist would.

My goal is not new endings because I know we will never get new endings that would be satisfying. Therefore I am not in line with Retake. However, if there is one thing that I admire about Retake, it is its objection to the poor objective quality of the narrative we recieved in the ending. 

Even if you want to classify Mass Effect as art, and protect the ending under the umbrella of creative vision, it is intellectually disingenuous to then disregard a conventional critique of said art. Any other medium would get the same treatment.

My problem right now is that you say you value the ending as a creative risk taken in line with the developer's artistic vision, but I have yet to see you respond to an earnest critique of the ending based on its artistic merits.

Sure there are plenty of idiots and trolls under the Retake banner, but there are also a lot of people who have applied critical thought to the task of evaluating the endings. This is something that I have never seen their opposition do. The second that I see an intellectually honest and critical valuation of the ending that concludes in its support, I will surely congratulate its author and mark them as a credit to the community. This feat is impossible without taking into account its objective flaws and weaknesses, the ones which you choose to ignore.

There are rational people on both sides who are willing to make comprimises and concede to each other on certain points. And then there are people like you, whose sole purpose here is to identify themselves as being in some way morally or intellectually superior and promote a false dichotomy of "us/them".

So, if your intention was to obfuscate, terminate critical thought, and divide the community even further, then congratulations. You made a pretty good try.

On the other hand, if you were trying to convince someone other than the few people who already agreed with your sentiments and your polarizing attitude that you are intelligent, honest or informed... or god forbid if you actually wanted to promote open discussion for the edification of all...

...you might want to look at the pieces on the board before you claim check mate.

[GamiSB]

InfiniteDemise wrote...
Still waiting for this:

A shame, then, that the "real majority", being so massive and all, can't
manage to reverse the negative reviews on metacritic and amazon, eh?

It's easy to type out "This sucks!" and click one star on a review. It's much more difficult to give a detailed account for a game and grad it objectively instead of in the heat of high emotions and spite. If you are anyone else took part in the "review bombing" you should be ashamed and are more of a disservice to the "Retake" movement than any sort of helping hand. That kind of action is the reason people are starting the view you as nothing more than whining self- entitled children who are just upset they didn't get their way. 

Modifié par GamiSB, 22 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[MrLee95]

ashdrake1 wrote...

avmf8 wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I am glad "so many" found delight in the ending that consisted of suicide, suicide, and suicide in 3 colors. I do however hope your movement fails there was nothing artistic about the ending and I do not think you understand the meaning of the word integrity.

The developers said the ending would not be a choice between door A B or C.

Lie.

They said that there would be many different endings. 3 different ways to kill yourself that all end the same is not many different endings.

Lie

When people lie that is actually called a LACK of integrity.

Hint hint: they aren't actually reading, so don't bother arguing. Just go with the flow.

It is a fact there are 16 diffrent endings.  It has been stated before on this thread.  Just because you don't find them satisfying does not make it any less true

Really 16 endings? Ok then explain these 16 endings to me at most I saw was 4 if you include the one of earth getting destroyed. The other 3 are mostly the same the destroy the reapers is slightly different but not by much. Mostly its a different color since the endings are not different if it does not show the outcome. I don't mean the idea of the ending is the same but what you see on screen bassically is.

I shall copy paste again.

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.

16 diffrent outcomes it does not boil down to the three choices, sometimes you don't get three choices.  You get the ending you create.

One could argue that nonr of this really matters anyways because the ALL the mass relays blew up! And as we found out in ME2 "Arrival DLC" if as mass relay blows up then so does the whole solar system! So pretty much everyone in the Mass Effect universe is dead and it does NOT matter what you did thru all 3 games.

Just sayin!

Modifié par MrLee95, 22 mars 2012 - 04:35 .

[Shaigunjoe]

Nice summary! Keep it updated!

[FS3D]

MintyCool wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.

A poll created by a vocal angry minority.

And here we have another example of the kind of thing that we are always accused of.

How do you sabotage your opponents' cause? Vilify them. The sad thing is the anger people like myself are accused of is actually nothing more than psychological projection.

Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?

About as much significance as the random poll supporting your coclusion. Take that as you will.

Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.

You've no idea how right you are, but it doesn't make it a win for you no matter how many times you point the finger and call us a bunch of self-entitled whiners.

Perhaps you should take the time to read what we are actually complaining about before you just dismiss us out of hand, as you are so obviously doing here.

[ArchLord James]

For all the OP's supposed philosophical depth, he fails to see the underlying consequences that these endings have. You think you are taking the moral high ground by standing by artistic integrity? Would you do the same for Hitler and Mein Kampf?

You see the theme of ME as being cultural synthesis and harmony, and your entitled to your opinion of course. However, I am also entitled to mine. I see the theme of the ME series as uniting the different species, organic and synthetic alike, to fight a genocidal army of machines that kills innocent men, women, and children. The reapers commit genocide wiping out entire species every 50,000 years obliterating countless trillions of lives, and they do all this based on their prejudged idea that organics and synthetics can never co-exist together. They fail to consider that maybe this cycle is different, and that maybe they can live together. No, they just come every 50,000 years and wipe out all advanced civilizations regardless. Of course, there has to be some kind of reasoning behind their genocide, that doesn't surprise me. After all, even Hitler had reasoning for his genocide right? But just because the reapers reasoning is more "deep" than the aliens in Independence Day (what is it you want us to do? Die, just simply die!) doesn't mean it is any more respectable than any other reasoning behind genocide.

Okay, so we understand what the reapers are, and why they do what they do. Apparently the OP thinks the reapers are right, and a solution is needed. And, since the mass genocide solution isn't working so well anymore --perhaps because the alliances you have formed over the last 3 games are so powerful as to give the reapers a run for their money-- the king of the reapers himself decides on three alternative solutions. What people are upset about is that the game forces people to agree that the reapers are right, and we have to do what they say, and go along with one of their solutions.

If that is what you believe OP, and you believe the reapers solutions are beautiful and philosophically deep, fine that is your opinion. My opinion, is that I would rather die fighting the reapers before I ever became their pawn, surrendered, and agreed to help them implement their new solution. But that is not an option is it? The problem people have with the game is we are all forced to agree with you OP, that the reapers are right, their horrific slaughter is justified, and that only through one of these solutions can there be life and harmony. Call me old fashioned, but I think me and whole lot of other people just want to make the reapers pay for all the death and destruction they have caused.

As it stand now, no matter what ending you pick, the Mass Effect trilogy can be summed up like this: Mass effect is about Commander Shepard's adventures throughout the galaxy in an effort to unite the civilized races of the galaxy against an evil genocidal force called the reapers. However, after uniting much of the galaxy, and winning many victories against the reapers, Shepard ultimately decides the reapers are right and the only way for life to continue is to help the reapers implement a new solution.

Ultimately I think the real problem with the endings that people have is it justifies the reapers. We don't want to go along with their solution, we want a final showdown with harbinger!

[Kurrick]

I really didnt mind the ending, Sure there are some open plot lines but we where told before the game even came out that there would be more to follow. Plot holes leave a perfect opening for the next game.

Such as, What happened to send the Normandy running?, What will happen with the mass relays gone but the scientists that made the crucible in the sol cluster? We already know that the crucible was based on relay tech so the relays begin to be rebuilt, What of the tech that will be salvaged from the Citadel? What of the Relays that had not been active at the time of the Crucible being fired? ..... What Im getting at there is a lot of openings for the story to continue the only ending was that of Shepard and that ending like it or not was acceptable to me.



So as I said before Im ok with the ending and Im looking forward to the next game in the Mass Effect mythos I just hope I dont have to wait a long time for it

[Silveralen]

Laughable. Bioware lied to us multiple times, and you leap to their defense. Oh, and I have personally seen more hatred (like this thread itself) directed towards the retake than from it.

Besides the fact that artistic integrity barely applies here. Bioware already announced they would change the game, DLC, we just want them to direct their changes at a particular point. They are going to compromise their own veiw of the game by adding mroe content not already envisioned.

Lastly, writers have to change the endings to their books all the time. Editors exist, and often have the authors rewrite large portions of their book to, and hre is the kicker, make it better!

But go ahead, try to stop a movement who's goal is to improve their own enjoyment of the game, at no cost to you (afterall, if you like the endings, you can keep them as is). So relly the only reason to go against this is you don't want others to enjoy the game.

Oh and devestating ripples, like fallout 3? The devestating ripple being it improved fan relations with the company greatly,and overall lead to a great working relationship which later lead to the much beloved game Skyrim? Listening to fan feedback, even if that feedback is as elementary as we don't like the ending, is never bad. It can only help.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

MintyCool wrote...

We feel it's not the public's right to demand that the fiction of the Mass Effect Universe be altered just because they disagree with narratives conclusion. If changes are made to the fiction; we feel the repercussions will send devastating ripples throughout the entire industry.

But this has happened repeatedly throughout history. It's happened with old writers long dead - Dickens and Conan Doyle to name two. It's happened in the gaming infustry with Fallout 3's Broken Steel and the Prince of Persia epilogue DLC. It arguably happened with NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer as well.

Changed endings in creative work due to audience outcry are not a new invention. These reprecussions you fear have never materialized. The "it would set a bad precedent" argument is invalid because the precedent already exists. It's too late to be concerned about setting a precedent now - it's already been set in the industry.

We support artistic integrity by respecting the Mass Effect narrative in its original entirety.

This is an interesting position. However, here's an alternative one: Art improves from feedback. This is the entire point behind workshops, in fact. No writer or team of writers is perfect. They make mistakes. Sometimes the execution falls short of the vision. Sometimes the vision itself is inherently flawed in a fundmental fashion, perhaps because the author is rushing to get the art out the door and misses pitfalls or flaws since they're too close to the work. Sometimes something that sounds great in your head is simply not as great on paper. I've certainly experienced that first hand.

As a writer, I've brought lots of stories to workshops thinking they were great only to have them torn apart. I've had endings I felt were wonderfully deep and meaningful ripped to shreds by other writers in workshop. I've had my creative vision trampled upon by test audiences. I've had plot holes in my stories wide enough to fit a reaper through brought up in lovingly sadistic detail. It doesn't feel good, but the criticism is immensely valuable because it points out flaws. Flaws which I can then fix in revision. Perhaps my vision simply wasn't clear. Or perhaps my vision was simply flawed to begin with. Audience feedback tells me these things, and it gives me the information I need to improve going forward.

In short, I find it difficult to give credence to the "artistic integrity" argument when my experiences tell me that art always has room for improvement. Art is never perfect, so it is never sacrosanct. It is never exempt from critique. Nor should it be, because critique is one of the best tools in a writer's toolbox when it comes to improving both their own talents, and the quality of the work being critiqued.

From my perspective, being wedded too closely to your vision such that you refuse to make changes in response to criticism is a fatal flaw, not a strength.

[RaenImrahl]

This thread is now closed.  Several participants obviously need a vacation from these forums; they have been banned for 24 hours. 

I'd like to add these thoughts:

1) For the vauge snippets of conversation in this thread that actually touch on the topic of this forum (Story and Campaign), users are welcome to join existing threads or create new ones on those topics.

2) I personally find the factious level of tribalism and militaristic jargon here disturbing.  Talk of "movements" and "returning to the front lines" is, frankly, appalling.  This social network is for a place for fun and camaraderie.  Setting up flame-baits for other "factions" and sorties into so-called enemy territory... it boggles the mind.

3) There are existing threads, posted at the top of the General and Story forums for users to give considered, thoughtful feedback about the game.  Use them. 

RI

EDIT: for spelling

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 22 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[ashdrake1]

[/quote]

I shall copy paste again.

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is destroyed
regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed.
At a 2,050 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating you’re able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.
If
you imported a save where the collector’s base was destroyed or you
didn’t import a Mass Effect 2 save, then these are your possible
endings:

If your Readiness Rating is below 1,750 points, Earth is
destroyed regardless of the choice to destroy the Reapers or become
one.
At a 1,750 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is destroyed.
At a 1,900 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is devastated but still there.
At a 2,350 Readiness Rating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.
At a 2,650 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved.
At a 2,800 Readiness Rating, you are able to create synergy between organics and synthetics, saving Earth and the galaxy.
At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and “saved” Anderson, Shepard lives.
At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not “save” Anderson, Shepard lives.

16 diffrent outcomes it does not boil down to the three choices, sometimes you don't get three choices.  You get the ending you create.


[/quote]

One could argue that nonr of this really matters anyways because the ALL the mass relays blew up! And as we found out in ME2 "Arrival DLC" if as mass relay blows up then so does the whole solar system! So pretty much everyone in the Mass Effect universe is dead and it does NOT matter what you did thru all 3 games.

Just sayin!


[/quote]

Nope that is just speculation , the circumstances for the destruction was completly diffrent.  It was nothing like a astroid hitting it, hence the people still alive after the energy hits them.  Even if it did wipe out the solar systems with mass relays, there are still plenty of populated solar systems.  In the end it is better than extinction.  Garrus said it best.  Sacrifice 2 million here to save 4 million there. 

Beside that whole point, this thread is not about the ending being good.  It's about respecting an artists art.  Not liking it is not the same as demanding it be changed.

[RaenImrahl]

ashdrake1 wrote...

I shall copy paste again.

Repeating the same comment over and over is the very definition of trolling.  Please review the forum rules.