873 réponses à ce sujet

[Solduri]

sorry but it stopped being art when they told me to buy more dlc at the end

[Di-Son]

You can have a "good" ending and have it be popular, ME2 for example. I would suspect people would think it would be considered as keeping creative integrity since it is what the staff wanted.

[MintyCool]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

^

[The Night Mammoth]

The fact that the Retake threads have thousands of pages between them, and this has.....Seven, with maybe.........Four, actual supporters, I have a feeling this guys attempts to start up large movement of his own, with a catchy motto which doesn't actually make any sense, has failed.

Love that other assertion though. The Industry is with you, but we know that's not entirely true. A bunch of websites invested in the game's success aren't exactly credible. The public is with you, except we know that's not entirely true either, citing IGN's own poll will tell you that. Momentum is apparently with you, except this thread now only has 7 pages without support, and the facebook group has about one 1 hundredth the number of supporters the Retake one does.

Yes, checkmate indeed.

[savionen]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Agreeing with the Reapers is not how I want my Shepard's story to end.

[GBJ13]

Here's what I'm struggling with: Under what circumstances, if any, would you argue that a fan and consumer has a right to change a product?

For example, suppose Shepherd goes towards the Citadel beam and a flash mob of Krogan and Salarians appear and start dancing to BNL's "It's all Been Done Before." Then Husks and Brutes join in. Then they give us the ending to another video game. Finally, Wrex's face appears on the screen and like Porky Pig says "That's all folks." It then cuts to credits and a request to buy more DLC. Would you still say that consumers have no rights? They have to swallow that ending?

I know that scenario is obviously absurd, but I think it's important to parse the difference in positions. You're either resting your position on supporting the rights of artists or you're supporting the ending on its merits. If you truly believe that it's a matter of artistic intregrity, then you need to say "yes, I would say you can't get that ending changed."

Instead of what you argue for, I think a logical position is to take the position that video games are like other products. If consumers feel they don't meet their expectations, then producers should either accept the discontent or make modifications. I think that's what people are doing here. I don't think it's absurd at all. It's what people do with any product they don't like.

[iorveth1271]

MintyCool wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Thank god, a place where the pro-enders can gather. I was starting to feel a bit like a stranger in a hostile country. Here. And it's good that you can provide a place for people like myself to get our message out as well.

If the Retake movement can claim that they're important and that they should be heard, then there's no reasons the Pro-Enders can't be heard as well.

We're just as important.

^

Will you ever answer a few of the posts by pro-retakers though?

Of course it's nice to have both RetakeME3 and Pro-Ending threads. But a thread that basically says "Devs, don't listen to the fans." is nothing but plain self-destructive. Basically, all you're saying is: "Don't listen to us." and while I wouldn't mind because your thread compares Star Wars to Mass Effect (which is something you just don't do, for a number of reasons), it just plain lacks sense.

So long

[H. Birdman]

Bioware: We aren't making anymore DA2 DLC.
Fans: This sucks. What about all the compelling stories yet to be explored?
Bioware: Deal with it. They weren't making money. We're a business, not some artists' collective.

Bioware: We're sticking with our ending to ME3.
Fans: But it's objectively terrible, based on false promises and unfair to consumers.
Bioware: Deal with it. They're true to our vision. We're not just some business, we're artists.

[Di-Son]

Solduri wrote...

sorry but it stopped being art when they told me to buy more dlc at the end

Yeah that is when it went from art to business, which is not in itself bad and is a decent business practice but I wouldn't call it art.

[Lmaoboat]

tenojitsu wrote...

Guys, we have our threads. they have theirs. Seems fair to me. If you dont want the pro-enders to be heard just leave them be and stop bumping the thread for them

Nice sentiment, if only someone told the OP that.

[StellarNim]

MintyCool wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.

A poll created by a vocal angry minority. Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?  Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.

Using troll lingo won't help you make a point.

Trilogy finales should not be cliffhangers.

[Noatz]

The 1st annual meeting of the ME3 pro ender movement:

[admcmei]

This conflict is getting silly. When people start posting proudly about the IGN douchebag guy being on their side and both camps start a "who has more articles supporting them" war, I think it's time to get myself out for a bit (I'll be in the middle of some calibrations).

[sistersafetypin]

Checkmate? Oh then let me just walk away from the line then...

Oh wait. It's about choice. You like the ending? Brilliant, save some money when the Ending DLC comes out

[iorveth1271]

admcmei wrote...

This conflict is getting silly. When people start posting proudly about the IGN douchebag guy being on their side and both camps start a "who has more articles supporting them" war, I think it's time to get myself out for a bit (I'll be in the middle of some calibrations).

I'll return to cleaning up engines.

[pomrink]

Lugaidster wrote...

This whole ordeal between pro-enders and anti-enders is starting to look like a religious war. It reminds me of Creationism vs Evolution Theory. Neither party will convince the other, but we all know which one's right.

That's a mean comparison.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

RiouHotaru wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

That is never what I have done. In the very rare case that someone who likes the endings wants to debate their merits with me I am usually very fair and try to do the best that I can to address their points. The thing is, I have only run into about 3 or 4 people who will do this in kind. So far no one has been able to tell me convincingly why the ending is likeable from more than a subjective standpoint as you mentioned.

[77boy84]

The last words of the mass effect trilogy is a sentence advertising future DLC.

Bioware threw artistic integrity out the window a long time ago.

[DarkSpider88]

@ Minty Cool

Where in the post does it say this, "Dr. Ray Muzyka announced that the Crucible/Cultural Synthesis narrative will receive major updates with future DLC in an attempt to clarify the ending. "

[Arokel]

If the people who like the ending want to have their own thread there is nothing to stop them.

However, I would encourage them not to do it in a thread created by a known troll.

[RedTail F22]

I respectfully dissagree. I do wish however that you wouldnt insult me for wanting a different ending as I do not insult you for liking the current ending. I saw flaws where you saw greatness. It doesn't mean either of us lack the brain power to see it the othe way. I am completely ready to listen to someone who disagrees with me to see their POV but that person loses credibillity as soon as they start insulting the other side for not seeing it their way.

Also I wish you would stop grouping the Retake movement with the negative people out there.They really have done a lot of good and I think too many people on the other side are quick to ignore that only to pick out everything bad about them. imo it only makes you look like bad.

[TLK Spires]

how can you be pro-ending when there was, in fact, no actual ending?

[The Night Mammoth]

RiouHotaru wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

Yeah, go and show when that has actually happened. Every time someone tries to make an argument for why the endings "make sense" they get shot down by some simple logic. That and because using baseless speculation to fil your plot holes, and explain away literary taboos and thematic contradictions isn't exactly a successful way to prove a point. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Okay, so the OP responded with everybody that pat him in the back, but to none of the people questioning his arguments. I guess that tells me all I need to know.

Oh, and Birdman makes a very valid point. DA2 doesn't sell? Let's cancel the expansion (oh, sorry, ''move forward''). ME3 ending is bashed? OMG leave our artistic license alone!

[dointime85]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Checkmate? Oh then let me just walk away from the line then...

Oh wait. It's about choice. You like the ending? Brilliant, save some money when the Ending DLC comes out

Exactly this!