873 réponses à ce sujet

[Mandemon]

Mandemon here, with friendly reminder.

Retake ME supporters, keep it civil and calm, no bashing. If you absolutely need to answer and pose questions, do it in calm and civil manner, no bashing please. We, the Retake Mass Effect, are not bunch of trolls stirring up trouble, we are concerned fans and we should represent us as such.

Back up your claims with links, do not insult and in general remain civil. I can't stress this enough. We are not trolls.

[DarthSyphilis59]

created 8 days ago, and less than 200 posts. Welcome to the real minority.

[TheLostGenius]

It would seem the ending has caused a schism in the community. Perhaps a DLC or a sequel would correct this error.

*end Legion

[TheProfessor234]

Different people like different things, simple as that.

Should be envious of them, they don't have wait/pay for extra content to be happy.

[MakeMineMako]

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Pro-Enders Update:

Thank you for the continued flow of support/links through pm. Yes, I know I'm being attacked by Retake and will respond in due time. A paragraph of logic is not going to change weeks of indoctrination. They do this because they feel threatened. Right now just updating the links you sent me. Continue to pm me any information you find.

The industry, public, and momentum is on our side.

Industry Support Update:

Game Informer: www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/21/hey-bioware-while-you-39-re-at-it.aspx

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

What else to you expect from trolls?

And yes, the OP is a troll, judging from another post in another thread. I do not believe that he/she is attempting to present their case with the goal of making their voice heard. They are simply attempting to start a shi*tstorm under the guise of making the pro-ender stance heard.

[Chuloos]

MintyCool wrote...

Checkmate: Pro-Enders - The Official Support Thread For Creative Risk and Artistic Integrity


Pro-Enders Mission:

We defend creative risk and artistic integrity in all mediums of art.

We feel it's not the public's right to demand that the fiction of the Mass Effect Universe be altered just because they disagree with narratives conclusion. If changes are made to the fiction; we feel the repercussions will send devastating ripples throughout the entire industry.

We support artistic integrity by respecting the Mass Effect narrative in its original entirety.



Continue to check back for more updates, news, and more.

Support Us: A paragraph of logic is not going to change weeks of indoctrination. If you wish to contribute please pm me a link of whatever relevant information you find.


Pro-Ender News:

Pro-Enders claim a major victory today after Bioware Co-founder, Dr. Ray Muzyka confirms the Crucible/Cultural Synthesis narrative will be forever ingrained into the Mass Effect lore.

Dr. Ray Muzyka announced that the Crucible/Cultural Synthesis narrative will receive major updates with future DLC in an attempt to clarify the ending.

With this news's, it's a major blow for Retake Mass Effect as it seems the movement has lost all momentum on all issues concerning the ending.

Dr. Ray Muzyka wrote...
As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.

To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.
The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.
If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.

Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.

More updates soon.



Why We Feel the Ending Works:

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story? No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety; in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.



Retake Mass Effects continued Steps into Complete Absurdity:

Retake Mass Effect Member has filed a FTC Complaint: http://www.pcmag.com...,2401775,00.asp

Retake Mass Effect Creates Spook Conspiracies Only to further the fringe's Rage: http://social.biowar...5/index/9727423

The Retake Movement Claims They are "Entitled" to a New Ending: http://social.biowar...-9909123-1.html

The Retake Movement continues to repeatedly harass game Devs of ME3 over twitter, Facebook, and other social media.

The Retake movement has created a fake PR campaign thread to boost propaganda.

More updates soon.



Industry Supporters of the Ending:

BioShock Creator Ken Levine: http://www.digitalsp...ken-levine.html

Penny Arcades Ben Kuchera: http://www.penny-arc...the-series-mass

Kotaku: http://www.kotaku.co...ver-be-changed/

IGN: http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1219446p1.html

Colin Moriarty: http://www.ign.com/v...3-opinion-video

ThumbCulture: http://thumb-culture...n-mass-effects/

Destructoid: http://www.destructo...ew-223218.phtml

Daniel Starky: http://www.destructo...wn-223966.phtml

Shack News: http://www.shacknews...effect-3-review

Garnett Lee: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Jeff Cannata: http://www.shacknews...-gdc-remainders

Game Informer: www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/21/hey-bioware-while-you-39-re-at-it.aspx




More updates soon.

Checkmate.

Humm.. well.. if it is checkmate.. then you lose... I still have my
King, Queen, Rooks.. and most of my pawns.. you only have a couple of
bishops spreading a different word.. Oh.. and I also have Forbes (where
people go to see who they should invest in) on my side too..

And, if I took the worthless time that you took.. to research all the outlets that are on my side.. the way that you did.. I would pretty much have a bulleted list as long.. if not longer than yours.

Checkmate.

[JasonC Shepard]

MintyCool wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

^

I would like to respectfully disagree with this statement that all of us pat our backs on our "success".
Reason being that not all of us are immature and it is not fair to group us all together.
Now I have a question about the Original Post, if you would like to answer it.
Why is Mass Effect 3 "art"?

[longlun]

MintyCool wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Thank god, a place where the pro-enders can gather. I was starting to feel a bit like a stranger in a hostile country. Here. And it's good that you can provide a place for people like myself to get our message out as well.

If the Retake movement can claim that they're important and that they should be heard, then there's no reasons the Pro-Enders can't be heard as well.

We're just as important.

^

No one says you're not important.

You're just wrong.

[DemGeth]

I like the ending

I think that people can ask all they want for it to be changed.

That's up to Bioware.

That being said the mods aren't helping the hold the line people by letting the lunatics in that group ramble on and on.

[H. Birdman]

Artists? Really?

Remind me, how much extra did Chekhov charge to see the last character in The Cherry Orchard?

[CavScout]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

Yeah, go and show when that has actually happened.

Pretty much any Indoctrination Theory thread where someone challenges the premise.

[HenchxNarf]

pomrink wrote...

Dont reply to this is you disagree. lets let it die

So it's okay that your side makes a heckton of threads a day explaining the same thing over and over. But once someone posts a pro-ending thread you act like this.

And people tell me I 'm wrong when I say the movement is immature. This proves me right, and anyone else trolling this thread proves me right.

As for the OP, sign me up. I'm with you all the way. And that was very nicely written out.

[Dridengx]

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

created 8 days ago, and less than 200 posts. Welcome to the real minority.

The majority have lives dear. not everyone can 24/7 a forum like you guys do. Even so, this forum isn't all of ME3 fans or Bioware fans in general don't post here. BIOWARE said it themselves among everyone else, you are a extremely vocal minority, let it sink in and burn

[CavScout]

JasonC Shepard wrote...
Now I have a question about the Original Post, if you would like to answer it.
Why is Mass Effect 3 "art"?

The same reason books and movies are.

[wintermaul55]

MintyCool wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Welcome to the 2%. Good luck with your topic.

A poll created by a vocal angry minority. Do you really feel this random forum poll actually has any real significance what-so-ever?  Or is it simply a prop to make you feel better about your disappointment with the story?

Insignificant poll is insignificant.

And a troll only uses something to define itself. How i know is
It takes a troll to know a troll and you have failed.

[HenchxNarf]

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

created 8 days ago, and less than 200 posts. Welcome to the real minority.

Except that Bioware called you guys the very vocal minority.

Welcome to reality.

[Asari]

The Angry One wrote...

Your entire argument is invalidated by two words. Shepard surrendered.

THIS!

[nhsknudsen]

CavScout wrote...

JasonC Shepard wrote...
Now I have a question about the Original Post, if you would like to answer it.
Why is Mass Effect 3 "art"?

The same reason books and movies are.

You don't interact with books and movies altering different rather important story lines.

[Drak41n]

in·teg·ri·ty

noun
1.
adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2.
the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3.
a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.

[quote]Official Mass Effect Website

http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience
the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other,
where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and
outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m
always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one
of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There
are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could
you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be
forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any
more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll
get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot
threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since
you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will
definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made
and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For
people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans
want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some
closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass
Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore,
learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being
able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer:
[Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:
“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass
Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for
Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of
course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all
the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get
all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different
way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The
whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions,
about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to
end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what
civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered
in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There
is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach
the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to
break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game
ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few
things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays
it.”[/quote]

Modifié par Drak41n, 22 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[iorveth1271]

CavScout wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

You go out of your way to present yourself as more intellectually superior and honest than I am, yet you will not respond to individuals who are posting thoughtful counterpoints to your argument. All I see you doing is an earnest effort at self-promotion.

Well, this is a hard thing for some people to learn, but preening one's own ego does not in itself constitute anything productive or meritorious. That being said, by all means continue.

Which ironically, is the same thing the Retake movement is doing.  They act all polite and civil, but anytime someone presents them with counter-arguments they basically go "Well I don't agree, and we'll leave it at that" and then go back to patting themselves on the back over how successful their movement is.

So I guess we're just looking into a mirror now.

Yeah, go and show when that has actually happened.

Pretty much any Indoctrination Theory thread where someone challenges the premise.

Can't remember a single one where that happened. While the Indoc Theory is not perfect, every single one of its supporters I met tries his best to defend it, to find solutions for open questions and to stay true to the given lore. No thread has ended with the defenders of the Indoc theory patting their backs saying "We'll leave it at that".

[Larkas Galanodel]

Hey, guys, just ignore this thread. This person is trying to get attention for 8 days straight. The original post was just ludicrous (check the responses exactly after it). Stuff about getting "momentum shifting to the pro-ending players". Really, I can't decide if this person is a troll, delusional or simply an attention ****. Whatever the case, she/he only supports one ending (synthesis), ignoring all the others and the basis for everyone's complaints. And while supporting her/his favorite ending, only provides arguments easily deconstructed by facts, such as the fact that organics and synthetics can, indeed, get along without being the same thing.

Really, just ignore it.

[Dridengx]

HenchxNarf wrote...

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

created 8 days ago, and less than 200 posts. Welcome to the real minority.

Except that Bioware called you guys the very vocal minority.

Welcome to reality.

Apparently forum posting equals sales don't you know that? who cares if you sold 5 million copies.. if 300 people are on your forums they are the majority!

[Tony208]

Dridengx wrote...

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

created 8 days ago, and less than 200 posts. Welcome to the real minority.

The majority have lives dear. not everyone can 24/7 a forum like you guys do. Even so, this forum isn't all of ME3 fans or Bioware fans in general don't post here. BIOWARE said it themselves among everyone else, you are a extremely vocal minority, let it sink in and burn

You post just as much as anyone here.

[pomrink]

Stop flaming each other. I hate the endings but don't harass the people who like them. Let them hold their opinions, even if the points they use are wrong or you believe they are wrong.

Except Minty. He's just a troll.

[Fail_Inc]

So typing Checkmate under everything, trying to "prove" we're bunch of idiots is cool and everything but still why having more endings is a problem to you? I mean you act so smart you should already know they will not say "oh **** it lets delete last 10mins" the most they can do is add couple of more endings.

So why you don't want more endings that provides more gameplay for you?

And newsflash! There are mad people on internet! They ask for unbelievable things for silly reasons! Wow who knew!

...[bold]Porcupines[mcbold]