178 réponses à ce sujet

[MPSai]

Avissel wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...
Ok in defence of Starkid logic.
Shepard asks something along the lines of "why are you destroying all organic life?" and starchild replies "No! We are saving organic life".

Once again I will ask this question. If they are doing all of this for "your own good" Why do they go about it in such a horrifying manner?

And why use the Geth to attack organics?

[Militarized]

Even if there WERE not plotholes... which there are..

You're still getting something completely out of the blue in Mass Effect, it is random and jarring and does not fit with the narrative.

Coupled with the facts it rips off, verbatem, The Matrix AND Deus Ex... you have the worst ending ever. A triple AAA Title just reskinning the ending of a game released in 2001. *facepalm*

[Black Raptor]

grimgim wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Ok in defence of Starkid logic.
Shepard asks something along the lines of "why are you destroying all organic life?" and starchild replies "No! We are saving organic life".

The Reapers harvest the most advanced civilisations, not all organic lifeforms. They passed over Earth when they Reaped the Protheans and ignored the Yahg's Homeworld in this cycle.

They do not exist to destroy all organic life. This "destroying advanced civilisation to protect organic life" is not circular logic.

The idea behind it all is that organic life would create synthetic life. The inevitable war would destroy ALL life. Not just the creators of the robots, but everything including every bacteria on every world.

The Reapers only harvest advanced life so that primitive life can always exist. According to them, the only other possible future would be one with no life whatsoever.

Hence the endings explanation for the purpose of the Reapers is actually not a bad one at all.
It's just the rest of it and the lack of closure that sucks.

Why not destroy synthetics whenever they are created then?

Too difficult. They would have to be omnipresent to suceed in doing this. Organic life wouldn't just confine itself to the Milky Way and would eventually match the power of the reapers, as would their synthetic creations.

Thus the Reapers strike before this happens, restricting organic advancement with the Relays and Citadel to make sure they can react before a synthetic vs organic war destroys ALL life in the galaxy.

[Unit-Alpha]

Lol, OP, you serious?

If you can't find the plot holes, you must not be playing the game.

[WeAreLegionWTF]

op must have played action mode throughout whole series and just skipped through dialogue.... oh wait.

[Alexius]

Avissel wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...
Ok in defence of Starkid logic.
Shepard asks something along the lines of "why are you destroying all organic life?" and starchild replies "No! We are saving organic life".

Once again I will ask this question. If they are doing all of this for "your own good" Why do they go about it in such a horrifying manner?

My guess is that no-one would pay any attention if asked nicely anyway, so they just skip that part.

[Black Raptor]

MPSai wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...
Ok in defence of Starkid logic.
Shepard asks something along the lines of "why are you destroying all organic life?" and starchild replies "No! We are saving organic life".

Once again I will ask this question. If they are doing all of this for "your own good" Why do they go about it in such a horrifying manner?

And why use the Geth to attack organics?

It's not "our" own good. It's for the good of life in general. Harvesting advanced life and preserving them in Reaper form is deemed prefferable to having all forms of life wiped out.

And they use the Geth to try and take control of the Citadel in ME1, so they can proceed with Plan A. The geth you fight in ME2 are just the remnants of this army.
The Geth in ME3 are driven to the Reapers by the Quarian attack. The Reapers see an oppotunity to get the 2 largest fleets in the galaxy to destroy each other instead of uniting against them.

[Cyvian]

SGhost wrote...

It's a direct contradiction.

Liara and EDI were right behind me as we charged the teleportation beam in London.

Correct, and what actually happened to them remains unknown.

SGhost wrote...
Garrus was on the other side of the city fighting.

That is an assumption. For all we know he could have played chess with Wrex the whole time.

SGhost wrote...
Everyone who charged the beam of light is reported dead over the radio.

Yes, and reports can be false. In fact, they ARE false. Shepard lives, no?

SGhost wrote...
The Normandy is off in space somewhere in the battle.

Again, an assumption. For all we know, EDI, Joker and all the Squad mates could have planned to high-tail it off Earth and the War as soon as Shepard enters that beam and thus the Citadel. They just didn't tell Shepard that.

SGhost wrote...
You speak to the god-child and everything blows up, including the Normandy that is, for an unexplained reason, doing a mass jump.

The point here being unexplained. Just because it begs an explanation doesn't make it a contradiction.

SGhost wrote...
Normandy crashes and the people who were behind me in London and/or on the other side of the city are suddenly on the wreck wearing different clothes and stepping out onto this strange new world.

After Shepard enters the beam we actually do not know how much time passes before he/she wakes up again. Obviously it was enough time for Anderson to enter the beam too, as well as the Illusive Man. Fact is, we do not know how much time has passed, nor do we know what actually happened to the Normandy or all your Squad mates.

SGhost wrote...
Liara, EDI and Garrus were in two places at once in two different sets of clothes just minutes apart, the former two of which were blown up by Harbinger.

Read above, just because we don't know WHY does not make it a contradiction.

[grimgim]

Black Raptor wrote...

grimgim wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Ok in defence of Starkid logic.
Shepard asks something along the lines of "why are you destroying all organic life?" and starchild replies "No! We are saving organic life".

The Reapers harvest the most advanced civilisations, not all organic lifeforms. They passed over Earth when they Reaped the Protheans and ignored the Yahg's Homeworld in this cycle.

They do not exist to destroy all organic life. This "destroying advanced civilisation to protect organic life" is not circular logic.

The idea behind it all is that organic life would create synthetic life. The inevitable war would destroy ALL life. Not just the creators of the robots, but everything including every bacteria on every world.

The Reapers only harvest advanced life so that primitive life can always exist. According to them, the only other possible future would be one with no life whatsoever.

Hence the endings explanation for the purpose of the Reapers is actually not a bad one at all.
It's just the rest of it and the lack of closure that sucks.

Why not destroy synthetics whenever they are created then?

Too difficult. They would have to be omnipresent to suceed in doing this. Organic life wouldn't just confine itself to the Milky Way and would eventually match the power of the reapers, as would their synthetic creations.

Thus the Reapers strike before this happens, restricting organic advancement with the Relays and Citadel to make sure they can react before a synthetic vs organic war destroys ALL life in the galaxy.

Too difficult? I have to disagree. Sovereign was keeping in check organic evolution. It was aware of the geth also. Why not destroy the geth then? The fact that Sovereign used synthetics to begin the invasion that "protects" organic life from their synthetic creations makes the starchild concept way too much ridiculous to be believable.

Modifié par grimgim, 13 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[Vilegrim]

DemGeth wrote...

It's not a Deus Ex Machina ending.

It's literally the ending of Deus Ex, to the extent that Eidos must be talking to there lawyers.

[Lankist]

How about the one where what's left of the Citadel is going to crash into Earth, causing a massive extinction event and decimating the planet for the next fifteen thousand years?

You know, the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was probably no larger than the length of one or two football stadiums. That giant flower-shaped space station is quite a bit larger, and more nuclear.

[Legendaryred]

How did the illusive man made it to that secret chamber where you activate the crucible? Why is Shepard seeing in rubble, "concrete" if I recall correctly the citadel has no concrete and is made from some type of metal. Highly impossible shepard just fell from orbit and survived. Like somebody else already said, if the citadel itself controls the reapers, how come it didn't just open itself up on ME1 and call the reapers from dark space? Tali's squadmates from ME2 all died for nothing except Kaal Reegar. If the reapers are so powerful, why don't they just kill the geth and maybe the race that created them to make an example of not creating AI? We saw how easily the reapers could hack the geth, they could just hack them and destroy them in easy 10 seconds.

[blah64]

Well I was going to make my own list, but it seems you guys have it covered. Keep up the good work!

[10 Steps Back]

Cyvian wrote...

SGhost wrote...
Garrus was on the other side of the city fighting.

That is an assumption. For all we know he could have played chess with Wrex the whole time.

Garrus: Shouldn't we help with the war?
Wrex: Not until I beat you once!

[Unit-Alpha]

Vilegrim wrote...

DemGeth wrote...

It's not a Deus Ex Machina ending.

It's literally the ending of Deus Ex, to the extent that Eidos must be talking to there lawyers.

Haha, this exactly.

[Black Raptor]

grimgim wrote...
Too difficult? I have to disagree. Sovereign was keeping in check organic evolution. It was aware of the geth also. Why not destroy the geth then? The fact that Sovereign used synthetics to begin the invasion that "protects" organic life from their synthetic creations makes the starchild concept way too much ridiculous to be believable.

Destory the geth, then what?

Organic life is like "Wtf just happen to our robots"

5 million years later, organic life has evolved and is now more powerful than the Reapers.
They create new synthetic life as powerful as they are. Resulting war destroys all life and the Reapers are not strong enough to prevent it.

[Militarized]

Black Raptor wrote...

grimgim wrote...
Too difficult? I have to disagree. Sovereign was keeping in check organic evolution. It was aware of the geth also. Why not destroy the geth then? The fact that Sovereign used synthetics to begin the invasion that "protects" organic life from their synthetic creations makes the starchild concept way too much ridiculous to be believable.

Destory the geth, then what?

Organic life is like "Wtf just happen to our robots"

5 million years later, organic life has evolved and is now more powerful than the Reapers.
They create new synthetic life as powerful as they are. Resulting war destroys all life and the Reapers are not strong enough to prevent it.

That's a worse leap of logic then the star kids. 

[MaynPayn]

Lost Cipher wrote...

Deus Ex Machina ending.

Nothing in the entirety of the Mass Effect universe points to a god child... And that's just the beginning. However the theories are wrong, the ending just sucks.

Although the endings are similar they are not the same.
Destroying the comm hub is not the same as destroying all AI.
One person merging with an AI is not the same as all AIs and life becoming hybrids
Rule the world is not the same thing as atleast my Shepard would have wanted when controling the reapers.

He is an AI portrayed as a child to familirize itself to Shepard. (kinda like Contact)

[JasonTan87]

What irks me is not that they ripped off the ending, but rather that they could do such a poor job of it.

[Legendaryred]

Also remember, the Geth were peaceful until Sovereign showed up and brainwashed some Geth, that's when the attack on Eden Prime and the whole ME1 vs geth started. True geth are not hostile like legion said. Also Harbinger hacked the whole geth fleet on ME3 very easily.

[jijeebo]

Black Raptor wrote...

grimgim wrote...
Too difficult? I have to disagree. Sovereign was keeping in check organic evolution. It was aware of the geth also. Why not destroy the geth then? The fact that Sovereign used synthetics to begin the invasion that "protects" organic life from their synthetic creations makes the starchild concept way too much ridiculous to be believable.

Destory the geth, then what?

Organic life is like "Wtf just happen to our robots"

5 million years later, organic life has evolved and is now more powerful than the Reapers.
They create new synthetic life as powerful as they are. Resulting war destroys all life and the Reapers are not strong enough to prevent it.

Destroy the geth, then Sov descends upon the Citadel, sits the council down and says.

"Create anymore synthetics like that, and we'll have to put you on the naughty step... Then liquidise you and turn your species into a robot-bug, alreeeeeeeeeeet? Cheers bro, glad we had this talk. TTFN."

Obviously.

[KainrycKarr]

VirtualAlex wrote...

 I have seen literally hundreds of threads with people saying the ending is full of plot holes. But I actually don't know what plot holes they are talking about. Maybe people don't know what plot hole means?

Can you guys please tell me what the plot holes are? I don't want to rage against the ending, I am just curious what these "plot holes" are everyone is talking about but never going into detail about. A list would be wonderful.

Why did Sovereign need to open the citadel if the citadel was IN CONTROL OF THE REAPERS?
Why was the Normandy way off, by itself, with the squadmates you took with you to EARTH THAT MAGICALLY TELEPORTED, by the relay?
Why did the kid NOT mention that the relay energy opens up wormholes that suck in ships and spit them out on random locations?
Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?
Why was there no text-based epilogue detailing the consequences of my actions and the state I left the galaxy in?
We're forced to accept that synthetics will always wipe out organics, EVEN THOUGH WE JUST PROVED THE EXACT OPPOSITE WITH THE GETH AND QUARIANS.

[Black Raptor]

Militarized wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

grimgim wrote...
Too difficult? I have to disagree. Sovereign was keeping in check organic evolution. It was aware of the geth also. Why not destroy the geth then? The fact that Sovereign used synthetics to begin the invasion that "protects" organic life from their synthetic creations makes the starchild concept way too much ridiculous to be believable.

Destory the geth, then what?

Organic life is like "Wtf just happen to our robots"

5 million years later, organic life has evolved and is now more powerful than the Reapers.
They create new synthetic life as powerful as they are. Resulting war destroys all life and the Reapers are not strong enough to prevent it.

That's a worse leap of logic then the star kids. 

How so?
The Reapers exist to keep organic life in check so they can't create a organic/synthetic war that threatens all life in the galaxy. If they didn't keep the Organic side in check, my "leap of logic" is the inevitable outcome assuming that the proposition "all created rebel against their creators" is true.

Synthetic life can only come about by organic life, not the other way around. Thus only keeping the synthetic side under control means that the organic side will eventually become too strong. Stopping the organic side also stops the synthetic side.

[grimgim]

Black Raptor wrote...

grimgim wrote...
Too difficult? I have to disagree. Sovereign was keeping in check organic evolution. It was aware of the geth also. Why not destroy the geth then? The fact that Sovereign used synthetics to begin the invasion that "protects" organic life from their synthetic creations makes the starchild concept way too much ridiculous to be believable.

Destory the geth, then what?

Organic life is like "Wtf just happen to our robots"

5 million years later, organic life has evolved and is now more powerful than the Reapers.
They create new synthetic life as powerful as they are. Resulting war destroys all life and the Reapers are not strong enough to prevent it.

If the reapers wanted to be guardian, they simply could make an ultimatum. "Don't make robots or we turn you into goo!".

And why it has to be a war? Because the "flawless" logic of the starchild is supreme. Even though you are shown in-game that the geth did not turned against their creators, that they did not wiped out the quarians when they had the chance and let them escape.

Really?!