438 réponses à ce sujet

[x Riddler x]

HaesoME3 wrote...

Did you read what I wrote? I said like him, I didn't say "Like people who can't beat gold already."

He's a fool who was trying to tell me beating gold in the demo was somehow easier when it was actually harder. Logical fallacies like that tell me he's not the sharpest crayon in the box. I wasn't basing my condescension on his inability to beat gold I assure you.

I'm the fool? You are comparing the DEMO to the finished product! Good comparison would have never thought that the demo was exactly like the multiplayer is now. How did you face the geth in the demo, I for one could not face them.

[GodlessPaladin]

Quarians were a problematic class, yes, but they were mostly an example of problematic design because they were only useful (compared to other infiltrators) against geth.  Salarian Infilttrators are just as good and work against all enemy types.  There should not be characters that work far better against one faction than another. 

Of course, the Quarian is still decent, but it's good because it's an infiltrator, and infiltrators are top tier because Cloak is far better than most other class powers.

Tactical cloak:
-More than doubles your (quite high, since having a widow/black widow is no real detriment) damage output when utilized properly, resulting in scoring rates matched only by the most aggressive nova vanguards.  And tactical cloak / sniping mean you face far less risk than the vanguard.
-Eliminates the cooldown for powers such as Energy Drain (even without the bonus power upgrade, which is a newbie trap build choice) because of the uncloak time window.
-Has a cooldown that is not notably affected by carrying even the heaviest of weapons (like the Black Widow)
-Makes you the best reviver in the game (Kirrahe would approve of the STG being the absolute best at Holding The Line)
-Makes you the best objective grabber in the game.  Unquestionably the best at gathering types, very resilient at holding one area for hacking types (because you can easily keep allies alive and hide from forces in an overwhelming situation, or even cloak and take your time for the perfect missile launcher shot), and excellent at target-hunting types (because of massive single target damage and ease of safely moving around the map).
-Is better than damage reduction abilities like Tech Armor at keeping you alive on the difficulty that matters (gold).

That said, the geth upgrade is cool.  Hunters seem notably meaner, which is nice because they seem to be the only thing that give infiltrators pause.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 14 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[HaesoME3]

x Riddler x wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

Did you read what I wrote? I said like him, I didn't say "Like people who can't beat gold already."

He's a fool who was trying to tell me beating gold in the demo was somehow easier when it was actually harder. Logical fallacies like that tell me he's not the sharpest crayon in the box. I wasn't basing my condescension on his inability to beat gold I assure you.

I'm the fool? You are comparing the DEMO to the finished product! Good comparison would have never thought that the demo was exactly like the multiplayer is now. How did you face the geth in the demo, I for one could not face them.

... Are you seriously this dense? Cerberus is now easier to beat than it was in the demo, Cerberus rewards exactly the same amount of credits as Geth - if Geth is now too hard for you and your lack of ability - go fight Cerberus.

Not to mention Geth is still easier than Cerberus if you ask me - I only ever died to phantoms instagib in the demo and that's because I didn't play StasisBubble - I mean Asari Adept. 

Reapers are the only remotely difficult team in Gold still. And even then, the most difficult enemy of all is the motivation to play after you've beaten single player already, taints the whole game. Find me three other competent players, or three people who have a bunch of extra cyclone missiles and I'll shake off the rust and make you a video of Geth Gold post patch and Reaper Gold.

[DeckardWasAReplicant]

Wasnt shockwave not working right? It stop effecting enemies half way through. I didnt see an update on it.

[ajburges]

Nerf stick was too heavy on sabotage. My poor QI will probably sit in the closet until something is done to fix it (don't like the grenade binding for QI so human is better)

Sabotage is impossible to balance. It needs to be awesome on Geth to balance the fact it's useless on reapers (it barely put cannibals into hit recovery). To make it balanced for random play means it's unbalanced for chosen opponents. Rolling in neural shock might help this problem.

I think it would have been better to remove sabotage from the QI in exchange for a different power.

[x Riddler x]

HaesoME3 wrote...

... Are you seriously this dense? Cerberus is now easier to beat than it was in the demo, Cerberus rewards exactly the same amount of credits as Geth - if Geth is now too hard for you and your lack of ability - go fight Cerberus.

Not to mention Geth is still easier than Cerberus if you ask me - I only ever died to phantoms instagib in the demo and that's because I didn't play StasisBubble - I mean Asari Adept. 

Reapers are the only remotely difficult team in Gold still. And even then, the most difficult enemy of all is the motivation to play after you've beaten single player already, taints the whole game. Find me three other competent players, or three people who have a bunch of extra cyclone missiles and I'll shake off the rust and make you a video of Geth Gold post patch and Reaper Gold.

I am sorry could you not understand sarcasm? And I am the dense one huh?

[Cyonan]

ajburges wrote...

Nerf stick was too heavy on sabotage. My poor QI will probably sit in the closet until something is done to fix it (don't like the grenade binding for QI so human is better)

Sabotage is impossible to balance. It needs to be awesome on Geth to balance the fact it's useless on reapers (it barely put cannibals into hit recovery). To make it balanced for random play means it's unbalanced for chosen opponents. Rolling in neural shock might help this problem.

I think it would have been better to remove sabotage from the QI in exchange for a different power.

It's moderately useful against Cerberus because of the backfire thing(and Turrets/Atlas).

If they just made it do something to Reaper units other than Cannibals and Mauraders it would make the QI fairly decent overall. It's just pointless vs Reapers right now, though.

[HaesoME3]

x Riddler x wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

... Are you seriously this dense? Cerberus is now easier to beat than it was in the demo, Cerberus rewards exactly the same amount of credits as Geth - if Geth is now too hard for you and your lack of ability - go fight Cerberus.

Not to mention Geth is still easier than Cerberus if you ask me - I only ever died to phantoms instagib in the demo and that's because I didn't play StasisBubble - I mean Asari Adept. 

Reapers are the only remotely difficult team in Gold still. And even then, the most difficult enemy of all is the motivation to play after you've beaten single player already, taints the whole game. Find me three other competent players, or three people who have a bunch of extra cyclone missiles and I'll shake off the rust and make you a video of Geth Gold post patch and Reaper Gold.

I am sorry could you not understand sarcasm? And I am the dense one huh?

I understand you're trying to deflect from the argument at hand because you've already lost it, that's what I understand. This game is easy, and you are bad, you also have no idea what you're talking about when you try and suggest the game is different from what it was in the demo in any way makes it harder. Cerberus is still easymode if you want to farm credits. And I still contend geth is just as easy.

And further I'll contend that reapers being difficult is perfectly fine, play against them for a challenge* not for credit farming.

*If you're bad/slumming with randoms.

[Star fury]

Okay, you nerfed Sabotage, fair enough. I wish you'd changed endings as fast as you fixed exploit in multiplayer. Now nerf Geths, they become too tough even for QIs.

[Spaceguy5]

Sereaph502 wrote...

After playing around a bit, I think the buff to the geth made them a bit too difficult on silver and above.

Normally even on a bad team we can make it to wave 9-10. Now I haven't been in a single silver geth match that has made it past wave 6. Pyros and hunters have waaaay too much HP for the amount of damage/swarming they can do.

Yeah... I literally just got out of a Silver Geth match. Wiped on 6. We baaarely finished the objective. I was the last person alive and had to melee kill 3 of them with my Salarian Infiltrator before I got swarmed |=

[Spaceguy5]

Star fury wrote...

Okay, you nerfed Sabotage, fair enough. I wish you'd changed endings as fast as you fixed exploit in multiplayer. Now nerf Geths, they become too tough even for QIs.

Working as intended =/= exploit

[Cyonan]

Spaceguy5 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Okay, you nerfed Sabotage, fair enough. I wish you'd changed endings as fast as you fixed exploit in multiplayer. Now nerf Geths, they become too tough even for QIs.

Working as intended =/= exploit

It wasn't really working as intended if they nerfed it.

Of course it wasn't an exploit either. Really far from it in fact. Just overpowered.

[Star fury]

Spaceguy5 wrote...


Working as intended =/= exploit

EA/Bioware were losing real money because people just farmed geth on gold with QIs. That's why I call it "exploit".  That doesn't mean I'm not pissed off with recent changes.

Modifié par Star fury, 14 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[Apollys]

I love how quickly they jump to fix something that makes it easier to acquire some credits, but completely ignore the hundreds of severe glitches littering this game.

[LemurFromTheId]

x Riddler x wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

And once again, you are completely missing the point: time is money. Every hour wasted is $20 wasted. Or whatever your salary is. If grinding for credits is really such a chore, it would be vastly more cost-effective to just buy the points.

Of course, this assumes that time spent playing the game is time wasted. For me, playing the game is the point.

Typical American responce, and where do you work that you get $20 an hour? Can I get a job there? Sorry that not all of us are ruch like you. I for one have student loans to pay off.

So by your logic if time is money then quanity is better then quality right? Remind me to avoid which ever company you work for.

Yeah, a typical American response from a guy from Finland... Again, I'm baffled by your train of thought. "Time is money" = "quantity > quality"???

Sorry, this is getting way too much off-topic. It seems clear you're pretty much alone wishing for godly hacking powers. I, among many others, am happy they toned Sabotage down, though others may disagree on the degree of toning.

Good day to you, Sir, and thanks for all the fish.

[Cyonan]

Apollys wrote...

I love how quickly they jump to fix something that makes it easier to acquire some credits, but completely ignore the hundreds of severe glitches littering this game.

It takes a lot less time to modify a few values in a database(about 5 minutes at most, really) than it does to go through all the code of mass effect to find where the bugs are.

They should still work on fixing the bugs, but balancing things isn't taking away from that. Trust me.

[Spaceguy5]

Star fury wrote...

Spaceguy5 wrote...


Working as intended =/= exploit

EA/Bioware were losing real money because people just farmed geth on gold with QIs. That's why I call it "exploit".

Here, let me apply your logic elsewhere:

EA/BioWare is losing real money with every match successfully completed, because people are earning credits and using them to buy packs instead of BioWare points! This attrocity has to be fixed soon, how else will they fund Mass Effect 4?!?! Because they certainly don't have enough money already!

(Please tell me you were being sarcastic)

Modifié par Spaceguy5, 14 mars 2012 - 07:10 .

[Star fury]

Spaceguy5 wrote...


(Please tell me you were being sarcastic)

A bit. A little bit. From their point of view it is exploit, because they couldn't extract $ from players.

[BlondishOak496]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Spaceguy5 wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

x Riddler x wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

It's still a CC ability, and one that also happens to deal high amounts of damage.

It just wasn't supposed to be a CC ability that could affect every single enemy unity on the map at once.

LIKE TALKING TO A WALL I SWEAR!!!!!!

Its funny watching you try to justify why sabotage should be Godmode.  Very obvious this was the only way you got your rating to the 215 level you said. 

...but we never said Sabotage should be god mode. It wasn't god mode before. It may be godmode for a top 10% player, buuuut........ that's a tiny piece of the community. And they'll find other "godmodes" to use.

It was God-mode.  It allowed non-Gold caliber players to farm Gold.  Players who couldn't beat cerberus or reapers on Gold, or reapers on silver probably, were able to efficiently farm Gold.  The content was trivialized.  Difficulty should mean something.  

Honestly, I've spent most of my time playing with randoms on silver and have ended up carrying the team in most of them. I wouldn't consider myself "the best player" because I'm not, but I can carry my own weight, and often the weight of others and while I don't care about the score because it's shared across, quite often it looks something like:
75-95,000 (Me)
40-45,000 
20-30,000
5-20,000 (sigh, there's always at least one like this...)
and I guess that's kind of to be expected in random matches, but in all my attempts, even with a QI or two I have yet to beat Geth on gold (Hell, I'm not even sure I intend to try after the buff they got and the nerf the QI received).
I know I'm not the best, but I don't suck. I've been in groups with a couple of people that play similarly to myself and still gotten swarmed and killed by the geth on gold pre nerf (usually around round 10).

It's been my experience, the geth (especially a rocket or prime) will tend to somehow track me through a cloak. I have died many times while cloaked and running and rolling. With the horrible spawns exist, It's not hard to find oneself flanked and swarmed rather easily (especially with a team that doesn't understand the value of movement). While I will admit that sabotage aided tremendously in those situations, my experience would hardly define that as this godmode that I see people throwing around everywhere on this forum.

I don't think it should be a godmode, but it was obvious by the way that they designed this class, that it was supposed to be extremely useful against the geth. read the description, how could it not?? People complained (because that's apparently what this forum is best at doing) and they pulled a complete 180 and demolished the ability. 

I've tried using it post nerf and honestly, I'm wondering how many people posting here have as well and if they are, then are somehow having a different experience than me. Because, while the description doesn't say that the hacked geth stands there for 8 seconds doing nothing. I have have seen this happen countless times over the amount that they've been useful. They don't seem to attack other geth until they get attacked by them, and quite often they'll continue to shoot at me! 

Obviously, no the QI isn't useless as it's still an infiltrator, but... I'll never use it now because all it's remaining talents are already shared by the human, and I find them better at them, anyways.

[HaesoME3]

Cyonan wrote...

Apollys wrote...

I love how quickly they jump to fix something that makes it easier to acquire some credits, but completely ignore the hundreds of severe glitches littering this game.

It takes a lot less time to modify a few values in a database(about 5 minutes at most, really) than it does to go through all the code of mass effect to find where the bugs are.

They should still work on fixing the bugs, but balancing things isn't taking away from that. Trust me.

It takes more time to decide what to change the values to than it does to change the values to, to be fair - far more time in the case of competent developers.

[Cyonan]

BlondishOak496 wrote...

I've tried using it post nerf and honestly, I'm wondering how many people posting here have as well and if they are, then are somehow having a different experience than me. Because, while the description doesn't say that the hacked geth stands there for 8 seconds doing nothing. I have have seen this happen countless times over the amount that they've been useful. They don't seem to attack other geth until they get attacked by them, and quite often they'll continue to shoot at me! 

Obviously, no the QI isn't useless as it's still an infiltrator, but... I'll never use it now because all it's remaining talents are already shared by the human, and I find them better at them, anyways.

I've never run into the issue where my hacked targets just stand around. I usually target the Pyros/Rocket Troopers and they start firing almost immediately.

Overall I would say it was too much of a nerf, but I would rather see Sabotage gain usefullness against the Reapers than be buffed back up against the Geth. The ability is near worthless vs Reapers at the moment.

[Kemor]

Great, maybe we'll finally have something else on gold than Geth farming with QIs all over the place.

And to QIs, you still have a 10sec CC on everything Geth or with a weapon and you have cloak, which in itself is just great for revives/caps.

[Lycidas]

Wow BioWare is quick in reacting to the nerf the fun out of the game crowd. Lets see if they realize that satisfying a small minority of never happy people will actually drive away the masses that had fun with the game.
The nerf to Sabotage is obviously an overreaction. Why not go step by step and see how it goes?
Raising the HP of Geth across the board is just not a good idea to begin with. Shooting at things even longer before it finally dies is not actually something I call fun. And the Pyros doing even more damage...the work of a genius!!! What does that even change in the end?

[BlondishOak496]

Cyonan wrote...

BlondishOak496 wrote...

I've tried using it post nerf and honestly, I'm wondering how many people posting here have as well and if they are, then are somehow having a different experience than me. Because, while the description doesn't say that the hacked geth stands there for 8 seconds doing nothing. I have have seen this happen countless times over the amount that they've been useful. They don't seem to attack other geth until they get attacked by them, and quite often they'll continue to shoot at me! 

Obviously, no the QI isn't useless as it's still an infiltrator, but... I'll never use it now because all it's remaining talents are already shared by the human, and I find them better at them, anyways.

I've never run into the issue where my hacked targets just stand around. I usually target the Pyros/Rocket Troopers and they start firing almost immediately.

Overall I would say it was too much of a nerf, but I would rather see Sabotage gain usefullness against the Reapers than be buffed back up against the Geth. The ability is near worthless vs Reapers at the moment.

It's happened quite frequently with me and has gotten me killed when I'm counting on it to kill the enemy next to it so that I could get some relief to revive a downed teammate.

[Spaceguy5]

I just almost solo'd Bronze Cerberus on my level 14 Vanguard (I only died because an Atlas did its scripted insta-kill). Biotic charge must be overpowered, you better nerf it next |=....... Also increase the difficulty of Cerberus! Or else you might start seeing only Gold Cerberus games full of Vanguards!

(/sarcasm Off)

Modifié par Spaceguy5, 14 mars 2012 - 07:52 .