438 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

RamsenC wrote...

Had to be nerfed. I joined a gold game as a human vanguard and 2 red X's immediately show up next to my name. I switch to Quarian Infiltrator and the red X's disappear. I'm sure part of that is general Vanguard hate, but still pretty lame.

That's just vanguard hate.

Sabotage did need a nerf, but everything combined makes it a bit too much, imo. It will still be moderately useful vs the Geth as a way to turn them into living bombs, but that's mostly what I intend to use it for.

[AndyXTheXGamer360]

jimmyw404 wrote...

Geth buffs are somewhat minor given that the only real threats are primes and they weren't strongly buffed.

Quarian Infiltrators are now the first OP class in ME3 that got hit with the nerf stick, heh.

Yeah, i'm pretty bummed about the nerf.
I just hope they smack the Quarian Engineer with the buff stick.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Terrible nerfs, super disappointed.

Ruined Vindicator and Sabatoge, very very lame bioware.

[cuzIMgood]

Aeduz wrote...

Congrats to the whiners so we can all enjoy taking ages to farm for a spectre pack and get a Gold character card of a class we've already maxed instead of something more useful. 

Get over yourself.  Gold is suppose to be hard and geth were waaay to easy and being abused.  Good work on the changes Bioware, keep it up.

[jimmyw404]

AreleX wrote...

jimmyw404 wrote...

1. The infiltrator class is the best class in the game, so it's not bad to be second to salarian/human.
2. Sabotage isn't ruined. It's still the best CC in the game against geth.
3. Changing variables in a table is easier than fixing real bugs and requires much less testing.

1. there is no reason to play it over the others, given that they are so much better at whatever you would want to do. quarian infiltrator was only the best vs geth to begin with, and pretty much a nonfactor comparatively everywhere else. now, i would rather have a sentinel or engineer.

2. it was the best before, that's not up for debate. now, i would have to give that title to chain overload.

3. conceded. however, when you're changing variables to knock down a few good things instead of taking a better look at all the bad things (of which there are far more of), i have a problem with that.

I guess I'll just have to see how bad it is when I get home. Honestly I was getting a little bored of QI but kept playing because it was so OP. Now I'll finally get to play with my falcon.

[Shinnyshin]

I'm really not liking how binary many abilities/classes/weapons are and the way in which Bioware is addressing this. Many aspects of this game are too strong in some regards and too weak in others due to sloppy design. Quarian Infiltrators, for example. They're all or nothing. They either worked ridiculous well (Geth) or were overall very lackluster. Or SMGs as a whole. The problems don't lie with the #s and CDRs, but rather the implementation of the concept.

Instead of really examining the problems and looking for more complicated, satisfactory fixes, it feels like the balancing team is just slapping # changes on problems that need a bit more examination. If something is really strong in a select few situations, but worthless in all the others, there are a few ways to go about fixing this. # changes without addressing this discrepancy is...not ideal. Was not doing enough CQC damage REALLY the Pyros' problem? Now they're even better at what they did well and will instakill squishies. Instead of dying in .5 seconds, we die in .4, but their weaknesses that made us not worry about their CQC are just as huge. Clearly a needed tweak to fix how unthreatening many of the Geth regular enemies were, exactly the problem.

A few # tweaks won't fix SMGs either. You need to go back to the drawing board and re-examine exactly what it was you wanted SMGs to accomplish in this game. Because right now, they don't have a place. And with the route you're going, the only people who will use them are maybe Turian Soldiers--and I'm pretty sure that's not what SMGs were meant for. Their problem is with their concept, not their #s.

Buffs/nerfs in unneeded places that don't get at the real problems are just as bad as no balancing at all.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 13 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Aeduz]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Also, the Sabotage changes are far too extreme. Sure the skill works incredibly well against Geth but it is entirely laughable against everything else except turrets. The number of changes being made to the skill simply shows that the balance is entirely lost as everyone knows that you limit the changes to see the results, not change everything and hope that you can isolate the effect that is balanced. Seriously, look at the changes. Can anyone at Bioware honestly tell me that these changes were tested extensively? As a tester, the goal is balance a skill not to nerf it to the point of being useless. It should also be noted that the Geth were not easy on Gold and only by exploiting Sabotage could you complete it more easily. These changes are way overdone and everyone will simply shift to the Asari Adept against Cerberus again.

Exactly what I mean, EVERYONE knew it was bound to be nerfed, but it's way too over-nerfed, and it's absolutely useless now. You do changes 1 by 1 to see how they effect gameplay, Bioware has done everything, Halfed the Targets effected, Halfed the effectiveness of Bezerk, increased the cooldown and decreased the duration. Why not just decrease duration and increase cooldown at first to see how that goes before making the skill completely useless. 

[Jayhau]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

I'm sorry but changes like these go too far. The Vindicator was not that overpowered and did not deserve this type of nerf considering that you needed to be in cover to have any accuracy with it. A change like this merely promotes everyone going back to Heavy Pistols or using another overpowered weapon instead. The Vindicator actually required some skill unlike the Talon or Geth Shotgun.

Also, the Sabotage changes are far too extreme. Sure the skill works incredibly well against Geth but it is entirely laughable against everything else except turrets. The number of changes being made to the skill simply shows that the balance is entirely lost as everyone knows that you limit the changes to see the results, not change everything and hope that you can isolate the effect that is balanced. Seriously, look at the changes. Can anyone at Bioware honestly tell me that these changes were tested extensively? As a tester, the goal is balance a skill not to nerf it to the point of being useless. It should also be noted that the Geth were not easy on Gold and only by exploiting Sabotage could you complete it more easily. These changes are way overdone and everyone will simply shift to the Asari Adept against Cerberus again.

Pretty much this all over... Wonder what the hell is going on at bioware. I mean I know te oilers had a bad night last night, but why make a whole community suffer!? 

Modifié par Jayhau, 13 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Does anyone think Mattock has ever been underpowered compared to other assault rifles?
Now with two patches its damage has gone from [76.1-95.2] to [94.2-117.8]. Best DPS with just medium weight. Am I missing something?

[themaxzero]

Aeduz wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

Aeduz wrote...

themaxzero wrote...


Looks like all the people who farmed Geth with QIs might actually need to learn to play.

No wonder they are having a cry.

Difference between fixing something and breaking it completely. 

I knew it would happen. 

It's not broken at all. You can still use it on Geth very effectively. You just need to do more then run around pressing 3 though.

In case you are wondering I have done successful gold Geth runs with a QI so I know how easy it was. I quit doing gold Geth runs with my QI because it was mouthbreathingly stupid.

Hardly, Asari Asept with Statis bubble will now be better at CC than an Infiltrator with Sabotage. The only benefit the Sabotage would bring is to hack Primes (Worthless) or Pyros. So that now makes Asari Adepts better against... Oh, Geth and cerberus, oh and reapers too.

So instead of taking a Quarian you may as well take a Salarian, because their CC is now useless. It can be somewhat regained if you can hack 2 targets again, but having 1 is stupid. 

What planet are you from? Asari Adepts are dodgy against both Geth and (especially) Reapers. In both cases the primary job for a Asari Adept is to be a Biotic Explosion bot. The QI can still revive and grab objectives, does not get flanked as easily and can set up uber Tech Bursts through Sabotage.

[jimmyw404]

 

Aeduz wrote...
 Why not just decrease duration and increase cooldown at first to see how that goes before making the skill completely useless. 

lol, I rarely sabotage more than once every two shots and the duration rarely expires except against primes. Changing those two values would be barely noticeable.

Modifié par jimmyw404, 13 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

And why the Vindicator? I mean really?

Salarian Infiltrator/engineer, Turian sentinal it is for awhile I guess.

[Dezerte]

Overall good changes.

QI might need some more compensation, but perhaps the SMG buff will be enough for them.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Dezman8 wrote...

Overall good changes.

QI might need some more compensation, but perhaps the SMG buff will be enough for them.

They need to change SMG weight reduction to sniper reduction then it will start to balance.

[ProHarris]

I haven't really participated in Geth farming, but I have played enough multiplayer to say that the Sabotage nerf is a tad overboard. I'd bet percentage wise, a very small portion of people playing multiplayer were abusing this strategy. It looks like the vocal minority got what they wanted and the silent majority will suffer.

Shinnyshin makes a pretty good point. Just doing arbitrary value tweaks is not going to help the balance in multiplayer.

[Thunderfurby]

Good news for once, now lets get all the bugs looked at please.

[Dachau Joseph]

Nerf the Vindicator and nerf Quarian Infiltrators THAT hard?

Good job Bioware, now nobody is going to use any Quarian in multiplayer. Seems like your balance department has been hanging around with Capcom a bit too much (blindly swinging the nerf bat).

Well it's good from a business standpoint, why should people be able to get 72k credits per game doing something that you needed a solid team to do, when we can give them just another incentive to pay us money to gamble on random unlocks

[Thenlar]

Cyonan wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Which is put into perspective by the general increase of health every Geth unit gets, meaning you'll get less free damage, but ptobably the same amount of distraction. Which is good.

The biggest thing for me is the 8 second delay on attacking, up from 2 seconds. At a base 10 second hack(15 with duration spec) it's going to really weaken the Berserk evolve for rank 6 to the point where it probably wont even be worth it, as most Geth don't survive 15 seconds when hacked except Geth Prime.

Read more carefully. This prevents OTHER geth from attacking the hacked Geth. This means it will survive LONGER.

This does mean that those other Geth are going to be shooting at you longer, though.

[beyond.wudge01]

Thank you for these changes. I really appreciate your efforts to improve the game experience and give us all a real challenge.

I look forward to your next moves.

[Cloaking_Thane]

While we're buffing SMG's can we look at the Hornet? it's recoil is awful

[xiaoassassin]

Hmm, I have to say they definitely over-reacted a bit. Geth infantry looks like they're going to be a nightmare to deal with, especially Hunters on Gold. Sabotage seems to be much less effective overall, even people who use it for overloading weapons. The dual purpose already makes Quarian Infil a binary class (either use it against geth or you don't), the fact that both specializations aren't very good isn't helping. Weapon buffs and nerfs are meh. Mattlock might become good, but Heavy pistols still win. Hornet is already the best shield/health burner in the SMG lineup, so buffing the other SMGs is worthless. Vindicator didn't need to be nerfed, in fact, none of the assault rifles or any other weapon type bar Heavy Pistol needs to be nerfed. Enemies in this game soak up tremendous amounts of damage, we should be buffing weapons to the level of the Heavy Pistol/Shotguns.

Man, I do not enjoy the 110% speed Hunters. If you've played any FPS, you'll realize that 80 to 110 is a massive increase in movement speed. Expect to get flanked 5x as often and stunned to death. The massive increase to shields/health doesn't help either.

With this patch, I see Geth becoming nearly as difficult as Reapers on Gold. Quarian Infiltrators can't save you now. I'll start farming Cerberes with my Asari Adept now.

Buff Quarian Engi!

[Dachau Joseph]

Thunderfurby wrote...

Good news for once, now lets get all the bugs looked at please.

Screw fixing game breaking glitches and bugs that make you lose 100% of your multiplayer progress randomly

Let's just tweak things that don't need tweaking and see what happens

[Chees3]

The Vindicator damage nerf was unnecessary.

The buff to SMG's was essential.

Modifié par Chees3, 13 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Hiero Glyph]

Thunderfurby wrote...

Good news for once, now lets get all the bugs looked at please.

In truth it is not though as Bioware has just told us that they will continue to nerf whatever is the popular build instead of trying to truly balance the game.  If an item is not used much it will get a buff regardless of if that actually makes the item more useful too.  None of these changes will result in a more balanced experience.

Modifié par Hiero Glyph, 13 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[Dezerte]

Just noticed I now have access to Ultralight Materials mark 1 for SMGs in MP, intended?