438 réponses à ce sujet

[royard]

Cyonan wrote...

royard wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Which is put into perspective by the general increase of health every Geth unit gets, meaning you'll get less free damage, but ptobably the same amount of distraction. Which is good.

The biggest thing for me is the 8 second delay on attacking, up from 2 seconds. At a base 10 second hack(15 with duration spec) it's going to really weaken the Berserk evolve for rank 6 to the point where it probably wont even be worth it, as most Geth don't survive 15 seconds when hacked except Geth Prime.

The 8 seconds delay if for ENEMY, if I'm not reading wrong.  I think you get 8 seconds of free damage before enemy bots attack your hacked bot. 

Actually it looks like I might have read it wrong admittedly. I was reading it as the hacked target will not attack for 8 seconds when it seems to be enemies will ignore it for 8 seconds.

That actually makes it worse as now it's not even a good distraction tool.

I think this is really making you choose your target intelligently.  I mean, you do know that cloak reset your CD, right?  So a nerf on base cooldown is no nerf at all.  It's still 3/4 seconds per hack. 

Now you get 8 seconds of free damage.  You just make sure you hack the rocket geth, and their missile will become much more effective, since they can get more missiles out before getting killed.  And 8 seconds of geth hunter?  That will be awesome. 

Modifié par royard, 13 mars 2012 - 07:21 .

[royard]

double post.

Modifié par royard, 13 mars 2012 - 07:18 .

[known_hero]

Lol at the crybabies in this thread complaining about the nerf crybabies.

Deal With It.

[Shinnyshin]

Elecbender wrote...

Once I get the Mattock X it will be glorious on my Turian Soldier.

Really?  I thought the Mattock wasn't supposed to synergize with the Turian Soldier...exact opposites, in fact...

The Mattock buff was another thing that made me raise an eyebrow.  Was it buffed 'cause it actually was numerically inferior?  The #s I'd read made me believe otherwise, but I guess that's possible...  What's far more likely is that it was buffed 'cause it was underused.  If so, this is another case of slapping on treatments without actually examining the roots, the core problems. 

Think about it.  Who SHOULD be using a Mattock?  Probably not Turian Soldiers (goes in the opposite direction of their kit) and any real caster classes.  Maybe infiltrators possibly, but there are so many other, more appealing options on them.  Possibly more weapony sentinels who aren't as keen on ability spam.  That would make sense.  Definitely human soldiers.  Maybe Krogan soldiers, but again not the favorite weapons.

So it's very possible that the only class with dominant, active synergy with the Mattock is the Human Soldier.  If this is the case, is it possible that the Mattock is underused because the Human soldier is so, so, so, so, so, so weak?  In fact, I'd argue that if other classes (e.g. Turian soldier) are using the Mattock, it's indicative of a balance problem.  Either the Mattock is so strong that it's preferred on classes that it doesn't work well with OR the synergistic weapons for those classes are so weak that a weapon that works against their kit is preferable.

To me, the Mattock changes smackof balancing without really examining the issue you're trying to address.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 13 mars 2012 - 07:21 .

[Repojam]

Cuthlan wrote...

Why nerf ANY assault rifle?

A Vindicator X does a lot of damage for a weapon that you can carry and still have 200% recharge time with.

[Cyonan]

royard wrote...

I think this is really making you choose your target intelligently.  I mean, you do know that cloak reset your CD, right?  So a nerf on base cooldown is no nerf at all.  It's still 3/4 seconds per hack. 

Now you get 8 seconds of free damage.  You just make sure you hack the rocket geth, and their missile will become much more effective, since they can get more missiles out before getting killed. 

The cooldown is 3-5 seconds(Depending on if I use Widow or Mantis) because of Cloak, but since I can only have 1 target hacked anyway, if I do hack another Geth after 5 seconds I just release control of the first one. They also survive slightly longer(Unless killed by a teammate) but with the Berserk nerf, they also fire at 150% speed instead of 200%, it probably about balances out.

The main thing is that the hacked geth is no longer stopping the rest of his friends from trying to murder me and my teammates.

[Dachau Joseph]

Quixal wrote...

I am glad to see the QI farm has been dealt with. That said, I do think the nerf bat hit too hard. Hopefully at some point the QI will be compensated a bit.

The SMG changes are nice to see.

Excessive is not the word.

This is like nerfing Krogan melee damage in Rage mode, but instead of tweaking the damage, they remove his arms.

[themaxzero]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

themaxzero wrote...


Looks like all the people who farmed Geth with QIs might actually need to learn to play.

No wonder they are having a cry.

I can own geth on gold with engineers or a salarian infiltrator, the problem now will be finding randoms that know how to do the same, QI with sabo made it easyish to get gold for spectre packs in random lobbies, the problem is not everyone playing geth on gold the problem is the way the stupid unlock system works, 50 spectre packs and still no n7 weapons, retarded.

If you're that keen on a greater challenge play reapers or stay away ffrom the QI, don't start complaining and ths ruining it for everyone else. The nerf everything mentality on this forum is ridiculous.

So that's you real complaint. You don't like the unlock system. So you wanted the Geth farm to make it easy as possible for you.

Sometimes players have to be protected from themselves.

[royard]

Shinnyshin wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Once I get the Mattock X it will be glorious on my Turian Soldier.

Really?  I thought the Mattock wasn't supposed to synergize with the Turian Soldier...exact opposites, in fact...

The Mattock buff was another thing that made me raise an eyebrow.  Was it buffed 'cause it actually was numerically inferior?  The #s I'd read made me believe otherwise, but I guess that's possible...  What's far more likely is that it was buffed 'cause it was underused.  If so, this is another case of slapping on treatments without actually examining the roots, the core problems. 

Think about it.  Who SHOULD be using a Mattock?  Probably not Turian Soldiers (goes in the opposite direction of their kit) and any real caster classes.  Maybe infiltrators possibly, but there are so many other, more appealing options on them.  Possibly more weapony sentinels who aren't as keen on ability spam.  That would make sense.  Definitely human soldiers.  Maybe Krogan soldiers, but again not the favorite weapons.

So it's very possible that the only class with dominant, active synergy with the Mattock is the Human Soldier.  If this is the case, is it possible that the Mattock is underused because the Human soldier is so, so, so, so, so, so weak?  In fact, I'd argue that if other classes (e.g. Turian soldier) are using the Mattock, it's indicative of a balance problem.  Either the Mattock is so strong that it's preferred on classes that it doesn't work well with OR the synergistic weapons for those classes are so weak that a weapon that works against their kit is preferable.

To me, the Mattock changes smackof balancing without really examining the issue you're trying to address.

[EDIT]

Actually, turian soldiers will be really great with mattock, since markman helps both accuracy and recoil, both of the things mattock needs.  (mattock is less accurate than avenger, if you didn't know)

Modifié par royard, 13 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[Cobra5]

I'm really glad sabotage was taken down a few pegs... farming gold over and over with no threat or challenge whatsoever was silly.

[Elecbender]

Shinnyshin wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Once I get the Mattock X it will be glorious on my Turian Soldier.

Really?  I thought the Mattock wasn't supposed to synergize with the Turian Soldier...exact opposites, in fact...

The Mattock buff was another thing that made me raise an eyebrow.  Was it buffed 'cause it actually was numerically inferior?  The #s I'd read made me believe otherwise, but I guess that's possible...  What's far more likely is that it was buffed 'cause it was underused.  If so, this is another case of slapping on treatments without actually examining the roots, the core problems. 

Think about it.  Who SHOULD be using a Mattock?  Probably not Turian Soldiers (goes in the opposite direction of their kit) and any real caster classes.  Maybe infiltrators possibly, but there are so many other, more appealing options on them.  Possibly more weapony sentinels who aren't as keen on ability spam.  That would make sense.  Definitely human soldiers.  Maybe Krogan soldiers, but again not the favorite weapons.

So it's very possible that the only class with dominant, active synergy with the Mattock is the Human Soldier.  If this is the case, is it possible that the Mattock is underused because the Human soldier is so, so, so, so, so, so weak?  In fact, I'd argue that if other classes (e.g. Turian soldier) are using the Mattock, it's indicative of a balance problem.  Either the Mattock is so strong that it's preferred on classes that it doesn't work well with OR the synergistic weapons for those classes are so weak that a weapon that works against their kit is preferable.

To me, the Mattock changes smackof balancing without really examining the issue you're trying to address.

Accuracy and headshot bonuses.

Or I just like the gun.

Either or.

[Cyonan]

Dachau Joseph wrote...

Quixal wrote...

I am glad to see the QI farm has been dealt with. That said, I do think the nerf bat hit too hard. Hopefully at some point the QI will be compensated a bit.

The SMG changes are nice to see.

Excessive is not the word.

This is like nerfing Krogan melee damage in Rage mode, but instead of tweaking the damage, they remove his arms.

A true Krogan needs only his forehead, anyway.

[Cloaking_Thane]

themaxzero wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

themaxzero wrote...


Looks like all the people who farmed Geth with QIs might actually need to learn to play.

No wonder they are having a cry.

I can own geth on gold with engineers or a salarian infiltrator, the problem now will be finding randoms that know how to do the same, QI with sabo made it easyish to get gold for spectre packs in random lobbies, the problem is not everyone playing geth on gold the problem is the way the stupid unlock system works, 50 spectre packs and still no n7 weapons, retarded.

If you're that keen on a greater challenge play reapers or stay away ffrom the QI, don't start complaining and ths ruining it for everyone else. The nerf everything mentality on this forum is ridiculous.

So that's you real complaint. You don't like the unlock system. So you wanted the Geth farm to make it easy as possible for you.

Sometimes players have to be protected from themselves.

Lets examine the entire nerf bat
Sabotage Power
- Damage from weapon backfire increased from 150 to 200
(OK great not even half of a level one grenade; base shields of a geth trooper 2000ish lol)

- Rank 4 weapon backfire damage bonus increased from 30% to 50%
(again fully upgraded = level 1 grenade)

- Maximum number of simultaneous hacked robots reduced from 2 to 1
(LOL no more AOE, pointless now)

- Base cooldown increased from 8 to 14 seconds
(Excessive)

- Rank 5 cooldown bonus increased from 25% to 35%
(ok)
- Base hack duration reduced from 12 to 10 seconds
(15 seconds total now)
- Rank 6 Berserk upgrade damage bonus reduced from 100% to 50%

(Now they can't kill their beefed up counterparts by the time its over)

- Delay before enemies can attack hacked robots increased from 2 to 8 seconds

This defeats the purpose of it somewhat for 2 reasons

1) terrible teammates will shoot it regardless

2) sometimes you need them to draw aggro


No all these nerfs in combination with the super buffs to shields and Geth Hunter ability = lol worthy

Compare this to the "simple" nerf of stasis

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 13 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[royard]

Cyonan wrote...

royard wrote...

I think this is really making you choose your target intelligently.  I mean, you do know that cloak reset your CD, right?  So a nerf on base cooldown is no nerf at all.  It's still 3/4 seconds per hack. 

Now you get 8 seconds of free damage.  You just make sure you hack the rocket geth, and their missile will become much more effective, since they can get more missiles out before getting killed. 

The cooldown is 3-5 seconds(Depending on if I use Widow or Mantis) because of Cloak, but since I can only have 1 target hacked anyway, if I do hack another Geth after 5 seconds I just release control of the first one. They also survive slightly longer(Unless killed by a teammate) but with the Berserk nerf, they also fire at 150% speed instead of 200%, it probably about balances out.

The main thing is that the hacked geth is no longer stopping the rest of his friends from trying to murder me and my teammates.

Oh, I see.  Well, I believe that there are only 8 enemies on the map at any given time.  If each person can hack 2, then...  You see what I'm saying. 

Will this nerf make your gold experience more difficult?  Yes.  Will it make quarian infiltrator less effective than salarians?  No. 

Look, you can't have free damage and distraction at the same time.  Bioware made the decision to give you damage instead of distraction.  You might not like it, but it's not exactly a nerf. 

[kjir]

I highly approve of the Mattock buff since it's supposed to be a high-damage, mid-long range DMR. That power-weight ratio now makes more sense for people to take a gamble on. Of course, if people find a Viper rifle, that's still the superior option...

[Eric Fagnan]

royard wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Which is put into perspective by the general increase of health every Geth unit gets, meaning you'll get less free damage, but ptobably the same amount of distraction. Which is good.

The biggest thing for me is the 8 second delay on attacking, up from 2 seconds. At a base 10 second hack(15 with duration spec) it's going to really weaken the Berserk evolve for rank 6 to the point where it probably wont even be worth it, as most Geth don't survive 15 seconds when hacked except Geth Prime.

The 8 seconds delay if for ENEMY, if I'm not reading wrong.  I think you get 8 seconds of free damage before enemy bots attack your hacked bot. 

That is correct, your hacked robot will live longer now because it will take 8 seconds for his friends to turn on him. This makes the Berserk upgrade more useful because the hacked robot has more time to deal damage before he dies.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

royard wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Which is put into perspective by the general increase of health every Geth unit gets, meaning you'll get less free damage, but ptobably the same amount of distraction. Which is good.

The biggest thing for me is the 8 second delay on attacking, up from 2 seconds. At a base 10 second hack(15 with duration spec) it's going to really weaken the Berserk evolve for rank 6 to the point where it probably wont even be worth it, as most Geth don't survive 15 seconds when hacked except Geth Prime.

The 8 seconds delay if for ENEMY, if I'm not reading wrong.  I think you get 8 seconds of free damage before enemy bots attack your hacked bot. 

That is correct, your hacked robot will live longer now because it will take 8 seconds for his friends to turn on him. This makes the Berserk upgrade more useful because the hacked robot has more time to deal damage before he dies.

Except they no longer draw the aggro when you need it immediately, therefore negating much of its advantage.

Not to mention the numerous times sabatoge doesn't register at all

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 13 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[Xenolithium]

Poor Vindicator...=\\

[Cyonan]

royard wrote...

Oh, I see.  Well, I believe that there are only 8 enemies on the map at any given time.  If each person can hack 2, then...  You see what I'm saying. 

Will this nerf make your gold experience more difficult?  Yes.  Will it make quarian infiltrator less effective than salarians?  No. 

Look, you can't have free damage and distraction at the same time.  Bioware made the decision to give you damage instead of distraction.  You might not like it, but it's not exactly a nerf. 

I'm pretty sure there can be more than 8 enemies on a map at a time. Then again, if the issue was QI stacking, it should have been capped at 2 hacked targets for the entire team.

It will make Salarian more effective because Energy Drain is so amazing. They were already better vs Cerberus and Reapers, not that nerfing Sabotage is hurting QI against those 2, really.

[royard]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

I've posted the latest balance changes to the sticky thread. These changes are now live.

http://social.biowar...44143/1#9660503

So, eh, did you guy change the WaveCost of the Hunter/Pyro?  I mean, 40 is fine when they are weak, but I'm really not sure about the buffed-up versions...

[Baerdface]

Thank god, was getting sick of EVERY lobby being Geth and host being quarian

[jimmyw404]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
That is correct, your hacked robot will live longer now because it will take 8 seconds for his friends to turn on him. This makes the Berserk upgrade more useful because the hacked robot has more time to deal damage before he dies.

haha I hope the balancing team really doesn't believe this.

[UK Wildcat]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

royard wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Which is put into perspective by the general increase of health every Geth unit gets, meaning you'll get less free damage, but ptobably the same amount of distraction. Which is good.

The biggest thing for me is the 8 second delay on attacking, up from 2 seconds. At a base 10 second hack(15 with duration spec) it's going to really weaken the Berserk evolve for rank 6 to the point where it probably wont even be worth it, as most Geth don't survive 15 seconds when hacked except Geth Prime.

The 8 seconds delay if for ENEMY, if I'm not reading wrong.  I think you get 8 seconds of free damage before enemy bots attack your hacked bot. 

That is correct, your hacked robot will live longer now because it will take 8 seconds for his friends to turn on him. This makes the Berserk upgrade more useful because the hacked robot has more time to deal damage before he dies.

Anyone who is smart should realize that its 8 seconds of free damage on Primes...

[Cloaking_Thane]

jimmyw404 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...
That is correct, your hacked robot will live longer now because it will take 8 seconds for his friends to turn on him. This makes the Berserk upgrade more useful because the hacked robot has more time to deal damage before he dies.

haha I hope the balancing team really doesn't believe this.

They can't, they nerfed it hard, they know it. It was expected, but this is excessive you dont even need to play, just compare to stasis "nerf"

[Sabresandiego]

The changes appear to be excellent so far. Need further playtime to give more feedback. Excellent work bioware, awesome that you patch so frequently!