438 réponses à ce sujet

[CheetahZ1]

royard wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Once I get the Mattock X it will be glorious on my Turian Soldier.

Really?  I thought the Mattock wasn't supposed to synergize with the Turian Soldier...exact opposites, in fact...

The Mattock buff was another thing that made me raise an eyebrow.  Was it buffed 'cause it actually was numerically inferior?  The #s I'd read made me believe otherwise, but I guess that's possible...  What's far more likely is that it was buffed 'cause it was underused.  If so, this is another case of slapping on treatments without actually examining the roots, the core problems. 

Think about it.  Who SHOULD be using a Mattock?  Probably not Turian Soldiers (goes in the opposite direction of their kit) and any real caster classes.  Maybe infiltrators possibly, but there are so many other, more appealing options on them.  Possibly more weapony sentinels who aren't as keen on ability spam.  That would make sense.  Definitely human soldiers.  Maybe Krogan soldiers, but again not the favorite weapons.

So it's very possible that the only class with dominant, active synergy with the Mattock is the Human Soldier.  If this is the case, is it possible that the Mattock is underused because the Human soldier is so, so, so, so, so, so weak?  In fact, I'd argue that if other classes (e.g. Turian soldier) are using the Mattock, it's indicative of a balance problem.  Either the Mattock is so strong that it's preferred on classes that it doesn't work well with OR the synergistic weapons for those classes are so weak that a weapon that works against their kit is preferable.

To me, the Mattock changes smackof balancing without really examining the issue you're trying to address.

[EDIT]

Actually, turian soldiers will be really great with mattock, since markman helps both accuracy and recoil, both of the things mattock needs.  (mattock is less accurate than avenger, if you didn't know)

Neither the Mattock's accuracy or bounce is really that bad. I also I don't believe it's recoil is worse than an Avenger because my Mattock I had the negative recoil bug while my Avenger X never bounces down. Though I don't think the level has to do with Recoil.

No the real problem is that Marksman was meant to synergize with Automatic guns to make them into lazer precision head shotting machines.  However, the automatic guns do ABYSMAL damage, and headshots are the only way to make them even close to viable (which is still debateable). Maybe the Revenant is exempt, but it takes forever to level up.

And the Vindicator nerf like really? Oh I get it, people were using a high damage weapon that also had a low weight! Probably needed a nerf. Oh you nerf the damage AND the weight? So it's useless to everybody? Awesome! You know what else is like that? Since the demo? Not heavy pistols Carnifax was already nerfed! It's not like it's weight is already lower than the Vindicator and has a way higher DPS. Hell even the Phalanx is better.

Why can't we get a real buff to automatic weapons? Why aren't they like Vanguards? "High Risk" High Reward? I have to stick my neck out 3x longer than using a semi or bolt action weapon and do 1/5 of the damage? I see.

POSITIVE LOOK TO THE FUTURE ;_;

[NikkoJT]

Still waiting for PC text chat. :not giving up:

[Hyrist]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Except they no longer draw the aggro when you need it immediately, therefore negating much of its advantage.

Not to mention the numerous times sabatoge doesn't register at all

Then Effing TAKE COVER!

If you're out in the open for those 8 seconds as an Infiltrator, you've got a bigger problem than needing an OP CC move to save you form dumb decissions.

If you're under pressure personally, you have cloak. If your team is under pressure, then you need to work together to get out of it.

[UK Wildcat]

No amount of tears will change the fact that this was needed. Bad players got too much of an advantage by playing against Geth exclusively. If you all wanted godmode classes that make it impossible to lose on Gold, you should ask bioware to make an unscored, uncredited multiplayer version for that so you can 'have fun'.

The reality is that you are only crying because you were using this to farm credits and now know that you won't be able to do it as effectively because you aren't skilled enough/or willing enough to learn alternate ways of playing.

[PirateT138]

UK Wildcat wrote...

No amount of tears will change the fact that this was needed. Bad players got too much of an advantage by playing against Geth exclusively. If you all wanted godmode classes that make it impossible to lose on Gold, you should ask bioware to make an unscored, uncredited multiplayer version for that so you can 'have fun'.

The reality is that you are only crying because you were using this to farm credits and now know that you won't be able to do it as effectively because you aren't skilled enough/or willing enough to learn alternate ways of playing.

Step1: Learn the system
Step2: Adapt to it
Step3: Conquer it.

People did it because it worked, I don't see a problem.

It was a little bit of a cake-walk sometimes but all this pissing an moaning doesn't help ANYONE.  I'm curious how many times most of these whiners have even beaten gold. 

[stu_]

Modifié par stu_, 13 mars 2012 - 09:54 .

[stu_]

Repojam wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I would love to hear an explanation for vindcator as well

Vindicator stabilized with a scope is easy of laying down a ton of headshots with very little weight.

A lot of my characters (engineers, infiltrators, etc) run with a vindicator and are still at 200% recharge and can still use it to snipe across the map effectively and quickly.

I am not seeing a real difference post nerf, except that occasionally i think a guy "should be dead" and has 1 box of life left.

You cant pay much attention then as all your cooldown bonuses will now be lower. as they made it heavier.

Read the patch notes next time

[AreleX]

UK Wildcat wrote...

No amount of tears will change the fact that this was needed. Bad players got too much of an advantage by playing against Geth exclusively. If you all wanted godmode classes that make it impossible to lose on Gold, you should ask bioware to make an unscored, uncredited multiplayer version for that so you can 'have fun'.

The reality is that you are only crying because you were using this to farm credits and now know that you won't be able to do it as effectively because you aren't skilled enough/or willing enough to learn alternate ways of playing.

i don't like it because:

1. they neutered an entire character (that was only SITUATIONALLY good) to hide their poorly thought out design for it
2. it's a sign of things to come. like i said, why mess with the few (admittedly very) good things when there's so much bad stuff that NEEDS the attention?

you and all the other 'ha ha, what are you going to do without your scrub tactics!?' people don't seem to be seeing the big picture. stasis got nerfed and it was cool. it was reasonable. it didn't get taken out behind the shed and beaten to death like sabotage did. a nerf was quite permissible, given how abusable it is, but it could've been done much better than this.

get over yourself.

[CheetahZ1]

UK Wildcat wrote...

No amount of tears will change the fact that this was needed. Bad players got too much of an advantage by playing against Geth exclusively. If you all wanted godmode classes that make it impossible to lose on Gold, you should ask bioware to make an unscored, uncredited multiplayer version for that so you can 'have fun'.

The reality is that you are only crying because you were using this to farm credits and now know that you won't be able to do it as effectively because you aren't skilled enough/or willing enough to learn alternate ways of playing.

Falcon's next

[PirateT138]

I'll second, AreleX's comments.

Quarian infiltrators are now gimped to all hell. Proper nerfing brings a class down from god mode but doesn't, as she put it, "take it out behind the shed and beat it to death".

It is, for all intents and purposes, now the least viable infiltrator.

An easier (and less asinine) fix would have been a slightly lower payday for Geth missions since they're generally easier and a greater payday for reaper missions across the board.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't get how the Mattock keeps getting buffed and the Vindicator got nerfed lol.

[Jayhau]

How about adding a money bonus at the end for Randoming?

My friends and I have never taken it of random, it is more exciting for us

Only thing I dont like about the patch is the vindicator nerf. Buff lesser weapons more please, don't nerf decent ones. Also the QI would be better without sticky gernade. Am I the only one who thinks its the worst gernade? An why do 3/4 infiltrators (well 2/3 I guess) have them? Yuck

[AgamenonAtreides]

I probed in 2 gold runs... well i cannot see any difference in the time to resolve the games.. first was reactor, the group was 2QI, 1HV and 1TC and we made it on 24.46 minutes, then we made it on white and was 3QI and 1HV and we made it on 24.37 minutes a lot of Gold runs i made was around this time before the nerf, so there are not much diference, anyway its a bit more hard that once

Modifié par AgamenonAtreides, 13 mars 2012 - 10:13 .

[Repojam]

stu_ wrote...

Repojam wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I would love to hear an explanation for vindcator as well

Vindicator stabilized with a scope is easy of laying down a ton of headshots with very little weight.

A lot of my characters (engineers, infiltrators, etc) run with a vindicator and are still at 200% recharge and can still use it to snipe across the map effectively and quickly.

I am not seeing a real difference post nerf, except that occasionally i think a guy "should be dead" and has 1 box of life left.

You cant pay much attention then as all your cooldown bonuses will now be lower. as they made it heavier.

Read the patch notes next time

From 200% to 184%.  I apologize, i was 16% off.

Or less than a quarter of a second.  

[UK Wildcat]

PirateT138 wrote...

I'll second, AreleX's comments.

Quarian infiltrators are now gimped to all hell. Proper nerfing brings a class down from god mode but doesn't, as she put it, "take it out behind the shed and beat it to death".

It is, for all intents and purposes, now the least viable infiltrator.

An easier (and less asinine) fix would have been a slightly lower payday for Geth missions since they're generally easier and a greater payday for reaper missions across the board.

No.  They are not gimped to hell.  People always use hyperbole on the internet to try and make points.  Everything someone doesn't like is the most drastic thing of all time in history.  Bioware has the numbers.  People have their own experiences.  EVERYONE should have been aware that Quarian Infiltrators were imbalancing against Geth.

The changes take Quarian Infiltrators from the #1 most effective class/spec against geth to... still the #1 most effective class/spec against Geth.

What can Quarians not do against Geth that other infiltrators can?  You can still do massive sniper damage.  You get points for sabotaging a target.  Take explosion talents.  Sabotage.  Kill target.  Aoe damage to everyone.

People would have complained about lower payday and bioware 'taking the easy route' had they done it thay way.  Any game changes that people don't agree with will have a certain segment of players who are overenthusiastically opposed to their pet concerns who come on the forums flaming, crying, projecting doom and gloom.

This is a great change.  I'm POSITIVE that if Bioware determines they over-nerfed Infiltrators they will tweak them more.  Like any intelligent, well-managed gaming company should do.

Stop crying everyone.  Go actually play Gold versus Geth as a quarian.  I've done it today.  It's still easy. 

[Barfwak]

I just finished farming four geth gold runs in a row and had no idea a patch had even occured. I was sort of wondering why I wasn't one-two killing hunters with a single TC->Drain->Headshot combo, but I figured that was because I didn't have a rifle rail on. Now I know!

They can't really fix the balance problem easily if you ask me. Geth are 100% synthetic and that puts them at a enormous disadvantage unless they nerf anti-synthetic powers to the point of uselessness. Ravagers and banshees are so much more difficult than any units in the other two armies that the reaper forces are always going to be everyone's least favorite fight. Nothing says a fun time like getting instantly killed because a banshee blinked on top of you, instantly froze you in place and then snapped your neck!

[UK Wildcat]

CheetahZ1 wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

No amount of tears will change the fact that this was needed. Bad players got too much of an advantage by playing against Geth exclusively. If you all wanted godmode classes that make it impossible to lose on Gold, you should ask bioware to make an unscored, uncredited multiplayer version for that so you can 'have fun'.

The reality is that you are only crying because you were using this to farm credits and now know that you won't be able to do it as effectively because you aren't skilled enough/or willing enough to learn alternate ways of playing.

Falcon's next

Falcon should be nerfed too.  I'll be completely happy with that.  I've been raising that issue since Asia Release about how strong the falcon is and how it needs to be nerfed. 

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 13 mars 2012 - 10:23 .

[kane3977]

Why nerf the vindicator? LOL.

Even more baffling, why buff the Mattock? If it's because usage numbers are saying Mattock is underused, I don't think it's because the gun is ineffective. I didn't have any trouble killing with it on gold prior to the boost. I tend to not use it as much because I don't feel like hammering the trigger 30-ish minute match after match

[suunio]

nerfing stuff in a co-op multiplayer

laughing_quarians_boshtet.jpg

[AreleX]

i beat gold with ease without a quarian, and will continue to do so after this nerf. that's not even the point. but while we are on the subject, i *guarantee* you that geth gold can now be done faster with no quarian.

please tell me what the now-nerfed quarian can do that another class cannot do better. and do not say 'they make geth primes stand still for eight seconds'.

[KodiakAsh]

Quarian Winfiltrator

Modifié par KodiakAsh, 13 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[okita_luc]

Yeah beat two times gold geth, it's harder , but not that much (both have quarians infiltrators on the team

[JChaos]

Let's see... we've got people saying that Quarians are now useless, and people saying that Quarians are barely affected. Something tells me that the actual effect is probably right around where Bioware wanted it. "Less good than they were."

I'm still a little concerned with the wide-reaching arm of the nerf, but I'm not quite so worried about it as I was. I still can't wait to try out my Quarian when I get home tonight.

[Bolo Xia]

tech is "supposed" to be good against synthetic's and biotic's are "supposed" to be good against oraganic's. if your going to nerf tech, nerf the biotics too. cause warp and warp combo's are way too good against reapers. but really warp and warp combo's work on tech too so nerf it so it doesnt work worth a crap either. you could just nerf everything to have 10 minute cool downs and all guns do 1 damage and same fire rate just to make sure everything sucks the same. but at least we will have the graphics left to look at. why not scream for the broken stuff to be fixed 1st instead of nerfs to happen.

guess we will have to wait until next week to find out what everyone cries is over powered. cause it will probably be your character or race next... cause once the the nerf rock starts rolling it only stops at the bottom of the hill. just ask any MMORPG gamer this simple fact (because there are too many games to list).

[Cyonan]

JChaos wrote...

Let's see... we've got people saying that Quarians are now useless, and people saying that Quarians are barely affected. Something tells me that the actual effect is probably right around where Bioware wanted it. "Less good than they were."

I'm still a little concerned with the wide-reaching arm of the nerf, but I'm not quite so worried about it as I was. I still can't wait to try out my Quarian when I get home tonight.

They no longer overpower Geth, but you can still make it work because really, anyone who is good with a sniper can make an Infiltrator with nothing but TC work.

Quarians were only really strong vs Geth. Sabotage wasn't used a lot vs Cerberus and is pointless against Reapers. Without Sabotage, the QI only has sticky grenades to fall back on.