195 réponses à ce sujet

[KovaksCA]

My question now for Mike is what company is going to make the games I buy going forward since Bioware will die choking on their own Hubris?

Mike, I design air filtration systems for giant commercial buildings for a living. If one of my customers calls me up and tells me that I messed up my design and there are huge dead spots where the air is stagnant I revamp his system to make it right, not tell him that I'm fine with the system the way I designed it. Why can Bioware get away with it and not me?

[WarBaby2]

Well, I tweeted him this:

http://retakemasseff...ect-childs-play

[LolaLei]

Turtlicious wrote...

6m Dan Bradshaw Dan Bradshaw ‏ @DanCoys

· Open

@masseffect Do you like the movie The 6th Sense or Shutter Island? I like those films. *wink wink*
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@dancoys Ha! Think we know what you are getting at.
Hide conversation
11:24 AM - 13 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

Opinions?

Uh oh, I don't like the sound of that.

[Devian]

Majormajormmajor, Dev's must back up fans/customers, not a product/game the fans/customers don't like, even if they believe they did a good job and deliverd a good game, it's only our opinion that count because in the end we pay for it and keep them on there feet as a company. If they don't listen to the fans/customers it will bite them in the ass sooner or later. So I don't give a rat's ass if Bioware thinks the end is great, I don't like it and with me thousand of other customers. If they ignore that then they are fools indeed and don't understand the bigger picture of this all.

[Turtlicious]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

he retweeted, which is like "liking" in facebook.

I just got pushed back into the depression stage.

This. Welcome back Turtlicious  *hugs*

*hugs*

It was these tweets that got me pissed again, then I read the Forbes article and I was all like "No, no more, I will not take this crap lying down"

Also, I can't just leave the HAllucination thing, half the crap on there was either written by, or asked permission for by me XD

It's Byne's baby, I'm just giving it nourishment.

[bucyrus5000]

The defenders of the ending are probably looking to literature and other games and saying this is satisfactory. They read Shakespeare and see this one-size-fits all ending as an inevitable outcome that is a treasure to be prized for it's emotional effect, but they are deaply solidly wrong; why bother saving the Racni and Geth only to hear the same shpeal at the end? The defenders of the ending from Bioware (Mike Gamble, we are talking about you), are probably looking at Deux Ex: Human Revolution (which had a shockingly similar ending) and say, "Oh that worked, let's do that." DEHR was a failure, I had been looking forward to playing it, played through once and haven't played again. I don't check to see if DEHR has any upcoming DLC; I have deleted it from my hard drive, because that game had so much potential, yet turned out to be so linear, it was trash.

Modifié par bucyrus5000, 13 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Tsantilas wrote...

Here's what I think is an epic response to that article by Unigolyn and pretty much sums everything up:

DEUS EX MACHINA:

You're getting your literary devices mixed up. The Crucible is not deus ex machina, it is a MacGuffin. It's largely irrelevant except as a plot device. It is the exhaust port on the Death Star.

The narrative of ME3 is not about finding the Crucible, it is about building the greatest alliance ever seen in the galaxy (which the Crucible, as a plot device, allows to happen).

Why the Catalyst AI and his Monty Hall spiel of the Adjust Hue/Saturation is a deus ex machina is that it is the resolution to the narrative. The fact that he is also literally a "god from the machine" is irrelevant, albeit ironic. He is a deus ex machina in the literary sense, i.e. a handwaved contrivance that shows up out of the blue to quickly whisk away all the dangling story threads, and to abruptly end the story.

This is abysmal writing. This is abysmal game design; a Pick Your Own Adventure book where all choices take you to the same final chapter. It is counter to everything this game is. And what is this game?

In a recent Extra Credits, Portnow discussed core elements of a game. The Mass Effect series is really not a third person shooter. It is also really not a roll-the-dice-and-level-up CRPG. Mass Effect is, at its core, interactive fiction. All the memorable moments in these games take place in cutscenes that play out in myriad ways based on prior choices. You are role-playing in the most literal sense of crafting a character's personality based on your choices. The climax of Mass Effect 2 was not shooting the Human Reaper in the eye, the climax of Mass Effect 2 were the cutscenes that played and showed the results of your actions. Did you defy TIM? Did your crewmates survive? If your choices were poor enough, you could defeat the final boss, only to make a desperate leap towards the Normandy with no one to catch you.

The desperate leap in Mass Effect 3 is your dash towards the Beam. The only input that matters at all past this point is the encounter with TIM. That encounter is true to Mass Effect, and honors your previous choices, and provides closure for the secondary antagonist.

But for the main antagonist (Reapers), nothing you did matters. You are given three arbitrary choices to solve a problem that, depending on your actions, may be proven to be a false dilemma in the first place. If you saved both the Quarians and the Geth, witnessed Legion's messianic sacrifice, and humanized EDI - the Catalyst's claim of organic/synthetic conflict being unavoidable is patently false.

The Catalyst AI is completely incongruous with the narrative and the themes of the game. It shows up, provides a complete strawman of a conflict, and then offers three vapid, plot-hole ridden resolutions to this conflict, which abruptly end the narrative in a blinding flash of Space Magic (pick your color!).

CHOICES DON'T MATTER

Again, you're missing the point. No one is complaining about the preceding 30 hours of gameplay. Choices did seem to matter. Your treatment of the Rachni queen from two games ago ended up gaining you a seemingly valuable ally. Saving Wrex can gain a hopeful future for the Krogan. Your choices regarding Legion and the Migrant Fleet in ME2 have incredibly strong consequences in the seeming conclusion of the Geth/Quarian storyline. This is why we loved the game up to the ending.

And the ending completely demolished all of it, and made it completely illusory. Who gives a **** if you saved the Rachni? They just end up giving you Space Points and don't affect your ending at all. Who gives a **** if the Quarians or Geth or both survived? They're all dead anyway. Who cares if you cured the genophage and saved the one leader who could lead the Krogan into a less brutish, more hopeful future? He's either trapped on earth or dead, and the radioactive husk that is Tuchanka cannot sustain their race without supplies anyway.

And even more egregiously, the choices you made in the development of YOUR Shepard don't matter. She acts EXACTLY the same when facing the ultimate antagonist regardless of whether she's a Space Racist Renegade or Never Surrender Paragon or whatever your Shepard actually is, and what (insert pronoun) stands for.

You accept Space Hitler's premise without argument, and dejectedly pick one of the three Slightly Less Turning Everyone Into Paste final solutions he has to offer.

How does it matter in the slightest that I've done the frickin' impossible and united the Geth and the Quarians into a hopeful future, shown that we need not fear synthetic life, seen a nascent artificial sentience freely decide to set "Love and compassion" as their main motivation, and fought for the reactionary, bleak idea of "AI will always rebel" to be proven wrong? Space Hitler shows up, says "AI will always rebel, here are drastic fixes to this undeniable problem". And I go "yessuh"?

WHY IS EVERYTHING SO SAD

It's not sad. You are being incredibly myopic and dismissive of our experiences by reducing it to "y every1 has 2 diezorz?". The ending of the story is not actually sad, it's just anticlimactic, contrived, incongruous, and ridden with plot holes.

The part that's sad and what's tearing me apart is that this is not a case of people writing themselves into a corner. This is not a case of glorified hacks like Ronald D. Moore or Cuse/Lindelof making **** up as they go along, to find themselves at the end with no way to tie all the crap together in a cathartic way.

This is a beautifully written game, for the majority of the experience. Bioware has bona fide talent within their ranks. And the story, up to the very end, is redeemable in dozens of ways. Even the contrived, out-of-the-blue Star Child could be made into an interesting character by presenting it as a shackled AI who was given a specific, limited goal born of fear (stop AI from wiping out organic life forever), and it arrived at the grotesque solution of Reapers not because AI is evil, but the constraints never allow it to look past the false dilemma it's attempting to solve.

Most importantly, this is not a TV show or a movie. This narrative is, by design, told in a unique medium which is NOT doomed to give us a singular ending. Our Shepards can be varied, yes, but there is a finite amount of paradigms that lead you to the end, and they could all have a cathartic, poignant, and persistent ending. Let the Renegades ascend to rule the galaxy. Let the Paragons defeat primitive fear and xenophobia.

I do not care if the Relays have to go down, but don't do it in such a thoughtless way as to destroy everything meaningful I accomplished. I do not care if my Shepard dies. In fact, I expected her to go down in a blaze of glory, in the greatest battle that shall ever be fought, for the most meaningful (to her) victory a soldier could ever earn. She did not get this. I did not get this.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of people didn't get this. We are not asking for a Disney ending. We are not asking for a dance party with Ewoks. We are just asking for our Big Damn Heroes to go out on their own terms, win or lose.

This,so this!

[Sublyminal]

StrikeSaber47 wrote...

Tossska wrote...

If the writer tells the reader, that his book is good - he is a bad writer. Very bad.

Well that is what happened with Twilight <_< (and no I will never read that horrific fan fiction ever and idk why that book series was ever a smash hit with the ladies).

Either way it is his right to not rewrite the story if he doesn't want to but if he doesn't then don't expect his next paycheck to be funded by my contributions. In other words, I won't be buying anymore BioWare games simple as that.

As you stated it is their right not to give us the ending we want, but it is our right to not buy anything else they make period. Not smart in any sort of business perspective.

[phimseto]

The only good to come out of that article is that I would buy those Mass Effect Choose Your Own Adventure books if they actually existed.

[NPH11]

hunt27 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

If we keep tweeting, eventually they will answer so please

everyone paste this into your tweet box, if you don't have a twitter, get one just for this.

Tweet wrote...

@GambleMike http://www.forbes.co...er-entitlement/ Please comment.



Also, keep this thread alive, so that ll can see this.

??????????
http://www.forbes.co...ood-business/2/

http://www.forbes.co...ass-effect-3/2/

Paul Tassi is a cool guy.

[MintyCool]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

In the end nothing will change. You will all accept it sooner or later. And when the new Bioware series is announced you will all be first at the door to buy it. lol, what a cycle....

Modifié par MintyCool, 13 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[revo76]

of course he'll protect his ending. Thing he dont know is:

1. EA owns BW
2. In couple of days there are more than 40k angry people
3. Potential boycott for further DLCs.

Low DLC sales = somebody will fired.

Guess who ?

MintyCool:

Nope, i wont spend a damn penny about a game i'll have bad ending no matter what i've done. If you're happy about non-sense endings, good luck. 

PS: We dont need comments about people 'who loved the ending without looking plot issues' we want official statement. 

Since this protest only thing we have is:

Hang on
Stick your copy 


etc. 

Modifié par revo76, 13 mars 2012 - 06:36 .

[Engared]

So be it. So much for me buying DLC.

[NPH11]

LolaLei wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

6m Dan Bradshaw Dan Bradshaw ‏ @DanCoys

· Open

@masseffect Do you like the movie The 6th Sense or Shutter Island? I like those films. *wink wink*
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@dancoys Ha! Think we know what you are getting at.
Hide conversation
11:24 AM - 13 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

Opinions?

Uh oh, I don't like the sound of that.

It's aiming towards the path I expected. They'll ride in on a chariot telling us, "Good job! It was all a hallucination! Now the endings are great, right?" and people will flock back to Bioware, apologizing for ever doubting them.

[LolaLei]

MintyCool wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

In the end nothing will change. You will all accept it sooner or later. And when the new Bioware series is announced you will all be first at the door to buy it. lol, what a cycle....

Maybe, but it's worth a try. If people want to buy other Bioware games then that's their prerogative.

[GBGriffin]

If anything, this whole thing has convinced me to never use a Twitter account.

IMO, the conversations are hard to read, and literally, all I've seen are a bunch of *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* comments from players and devs alike.

Player: What do you think about this?
Devs: I dunno. What do you think we think of this?

How awful ;_;

[BaladasDemnevanni]

MintyCool wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

In the end nothing will change. You will all accept it sooner or later. And when the new Bioware series is announced you will all be first at the door to buy it. lol, what a cycle....

You lost any hope at credibility with the silent majority argument.

[mariatea]

For the first time ever since I spoiled myself with the endings my irritation faded.

Now I am seriousy crying. My last shards of hope dissapeared.
Damn, I need a hug.

[Iefho]

Bendok wrote...

I'd like to see him tweet one of the Forbes articles...

If he tweeted that article, he'd probably get is butt kicked by his superiors at EA. The devs are not the masters of their own houses. They've all signed NDAs and they will only comment when given authorization by EA.

[Sublyminal]

MintyCool wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

In the end nothing will change. You will all accept it sooner or later. And when the new Bioware series is announced you will all be first at the door to buy it. lol, what a cycle....

I will bet you. A months salary that they won't get another dime of my money unless the endings change. I own a business and the worst thing you can EVER do is ****** off your customers. It's clear that you aren't a true lover of the ME series if you gulped down the ****** and **** they poured in a cup and told you it was an expresso.

[LolaLei]

NPH11 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

6m Dan Bradshaw Dan Bradshaw ‏ @DanCoys

· Open

@masseffect Do you like the movie The 6th Sense or Shutter Island? I like those films. *wink wink*
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@dancoys Ha! Think we know what you are getting at.
Hide conversation
11:24 AM - 13 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

Opinions?

Uh oh, I don't like the sound of that.

It's aiming towards the path I expected. They'll ride in on a chariot telling us, "Good job! It was all a hallucination! Now the endings are great, right?" and people will flock back to Bioware, apologizing for ever doubting them.

Or it'll turn out Shepard is dead and all of the Mass Effect games was limbo lol.

[crimzontearz]

people should tweet a hail of the articles saying the opposite and reply that link to every unrelated tweet he makes

[Drenick18]

wow.. they're really standing by all the plot-holes, the lack of epicness, and general wtf-ness of the ending. "It's crap but it's OUR crap."

what a waste of a perfect opportunity to make the ME trilogy truly legendary. all that epic stuff, reduced to meh in the last 5 minutes. guess it's time to move on...

[Teddie Sage]

He MAY be okay with it, but thousands and thousands (near a million by now) of fans disagree.

[StrikeSaber47]

MintyCool wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

In the end nothing will change. You will all accept it sooner or later. And when the new Bioware series is announced you will all be first at the door to buy it. lol, what a cycle....

I think this time around it might be different. I have seen these protests a lot for other games and it wavers one week in but this one has been gaining more ground as each day goes.

Modifié par StrikeSaber47, 13 mars 2012 - 06:42 .