So, let's try this, since ME 3 is an unmitigated disaster as far as the ending goes...
What's a good downer ending they could have cribbed from?
I have 2 suggestions:
One: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.
At the end of the play the characters get philosophical and discuss why nothing can be changed... And then they promise to get it right the next time through. A very meta-plot on the fact that it is a play and nothing can be changed within a play. Doesn't spell it out completely, but is not ambiguous at all.
Two: Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.
Half the endings result in you dying or getting otherwise destroyed due to your choices in the game. Even what you might think is a good ending ends up bad. There is no flowers and roses at the end, and arguably the best ending just has your character living and leaving the city.
So, got any more?
Downer endings that worked...
Débuté par
detroitmechworks
, mars 13 2012 06:24
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#2
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
movieguyabw
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Well, the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern one you mention, still has a hopeful tone to it, with them promising to get it right the next time (heard of the play, never saw it myself)
But it's hard to have a downer ending, when it's the end of the trilogy, I feel, unless the two previous titles heavily imply it'll end bad.
Even the idea of an unknowable, and all powerful enemy like the Reapers, doesn't imply the amount of death and destruction is inevitable in the previous two titles. Sure, it implies some will die. But not the majority of characters. Not at every single turn of the story. And not Shepard at the end - at least not for everyone. If you do absolutely everything right, you shouldn't have the same outcome as someone who did everything wrong. Not in a game like Mass Effect.
I can see it in a game like Dragon Age - where everything is dismal from the get-go... which is why an ending where the protagonist dies works so well. But Mass Effect 3's story doesn't begin at Mass Effect 3, it begins at Mass Effect 1. The story was never this depressing from the start of the first game. Even with the impending suicide mission of the second game, it was heroic and hopeful, and you could complete the mission with NO CASUALTIES. Changing the tone at the 11th hour this drastically doesn't work.
Sorry for the mini-rant.
But it's hard to have a downer ending, when it's the end of the trilogy, I feel, unless the two previous titles heavily imply it'll end bad.
Even the idea of an unknowable, and all powerful enemy like the Reapers, doesn't imply the amount of death and destruction is inevitable in the previous two titles. Sure, it implies some will die. But not the majority of characters. Not at every single turn of the story. And not Shepard at the end - at least not for everyone. If you do absolutely everything right, you shouldn't have the same outcome as someone who did everything wrong. Not in a game like Mass Effect.
I can see it in a game like Dragon Age - where everything is dismal from the get-go... which is why an ending where the protagonist dies works so well. But Mass Effect 3's story doesn't begin at Mass Effect 3, it begins at Mass Effect 1. The story was never this depressing from the start of the first game. Even with the impending suicide mission of the second game, it was heroic and hopeful, and you could complete the mission with NO CASUALTIES. Changing the tone at the 11th hour this drastically doesn't work.
Sorry for the mini-rant.
#3
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
fish of doom
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elric of melniboné (well, the last book in the elric saga, that is, namely stormbringer)
his living, evil sword, which has been influencing him for years, leading to great tragedy everywhere he goes (and this is a big point, the entire series is pretty much based on tragedy and cynicism, unlike mass effect), turns on him in a final act of betrayal, kills him. from the wiki article on the sword itself:
"Ultimately, Elric's reliance on Stormbringer proves his undoing: after the utter destruction of the Young Kingdoms in the battle of Law and Chaos, just as it seems that the cosmic Balance has been restored, Stormbringer kills Elric, transforms into a humanoid demon, and leaps laughing into the sky, to corrupt the newly-remade world once more. The sword-spirit says to the dying Elric "I was a thousand times more evil than thou.""
his living, evil sword, which has been influencing him for years, leading to great tragedy everywhere he goes (and this is a big point, the entire series is pretty much based on tragedy and cynicism, unlike mass effect), turns on him in a final act of betrayal, kills him. from the wiki article on the sword itself:
"Ultimately, Elric's reliance on Stormbringer proves his undoing: after the utter destruction of the Young Kingdoms in the battle of Law and Chaos, just as it seems that the cosmic Balance has been restored, Stormbringer kills Elric, transforms into a humanoid demon, and leaps laughing into the sky, to corrupt the newly-remade world once more. The sword-spirit says to the dying Elric "I was a thousand times more evil than thou.""
#5
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:37
Mr. Big Pimpin
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Dragon Age: Origins. Also note the sacrifice ending was a CHOICE.
#6
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:39
Garathe
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I remember Bloodlines. I think you had one or maybe two endings out of five that you actually live through. It was a fun game, especially with the expanded community created mod pack, and the endings weren't particularly happy, but they all fit with the storyline. I played through and got all of them I didn't walk away going "what just happened?" as I did with ME3.
#7
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:39
mohdhm
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the bad endings in Heavy Rain are fantastic... except for the one where he mysteriously finds a rope and hangs himself in prison.
#8
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:39
Harorrd
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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins. Also note the sacrifice ending was a CHOICE.
atleast there you had the choise to die or not to, you could plan this in diffrent ways by being smart. If you wanted to die a hero you could. if you wanted to survive and marry the king, you could, if you wanted to survive and look for your child, you could. Not here,
#9
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:39
vigna
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It was actually my default warden after the Leliana stuff in DA2...Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins. Also note the sacrifice ending was a CHOICE.
#10
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:39
Femmefatality07
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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins. Also note the sacrifice ending was a CHOICE.
Yup.
#12
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:40
BobbyTheI
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The obvious comparison would be to Red Dead Redemption.
* RDR SPOILERS INCOMING, AND WHY THE HELL HAVEN'T YOU PLAYED THIS YET? *
I don't seem to recall many petitions going around saying, "No, don't kill John Marston! Let him be happy with his family!" So the idea we're upset because the ending is "depressing" kinda loses steam at that point.
RDR's ending was tragic, but it fit with the themes of the game (the brutal death of the Old West, inability to escape your past) so it ranks among the greatest game endings of all time.
Meanwhile, ME3 pulls a Diabolus Ex Machina out of its butt, after two games of being told "If you fight hard enough, you and your comrades will make it." It betrays the theme of the fiction, and that's why it's so terrible.
Well, that and the massive plot holes and shoddy execution.
* RDR SPOILERS INCOMING, AND WHY THE HELL HAVEN'T YOU PLAYED THIS YET? *
I don't seem to recall many petitions going around saying, "No, don't kill John Marston! Let him be happy with his family!" So the idea we're upset because the ending is "depressing" kinda loses steam at that point.
RDR's ending was tragic, but it fit with the themes of the game (the brutal death of the Old West, inability to escape your past) so it ranks among the greatest game endings of all time.
Meanwhile, ME3 pulls a Diabolus Ex Machina out of its butt, after two games of being told "If you fight hard enough, you and your comrades will make it." It betrays the theme of the fiction, and that's why it's so terrible.
Well, that and the massive plot holes and shoddy execution.
#13
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:40
Xandax
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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins. Also note the sacrifice ending was a CHOICE.
Indeed.
Instead of ripping off Deus Ex and slapping on 3 coats of paint - they could just have ripped off DA:O
That game even had an epilogue.
#14
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:42
BTDUBS
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mrmarcus101 wrote...
Seven.
Beat me to it! That Ending worked. Because of the setting and it was pretty much established that it wasn't going to be a happy ending. WHAT'S IN THE BOX?!
#15
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:42
Mr. Big Pimpin
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I loved RDR's ending.BobbyTheI wrote...
The obvious comparison would be to Red Dead Redemption.
* RDR SPOILERS INCOMING, AND WHY THE HELL HAVEN'T YOU PLAYED THIS YET? *
I don't seem to recall many petitions going around saying, "No, don't kill John Marston! Let him be happy with his family!" So the idea we're upset because the ending is "depressing" kinda loses steam at that point.
RDR's ending was tragic, but it fit with the themes of the game (the brutal death of the Old West, inability to escape your past) so it ranks among the greatest game endings of all time.
Meanwhile, ME3 pulls a Diabolus Ex Machina out of its butt, after two games of being told "If you fight hard enough, you and your comrades will make it." It betrays the theme of the fiction, and that's why it's so terrible.
Well, that and the massive plot holes and shoddy execution.
#16
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:42
fish of doom
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also, the endings to freespace and freespace 2, both space combat simulation games using the premise of a completely unknowable enemy possessing overwhelming military might.
the first ends up with the only jump node (analogous to mass relay) to and from earth destroyed when the big bad 's capital ship is blown up mid-transit before it can glass earth (which it had already done to the homeworld of another sentient race also involved in the war), but with most of the rest of the systems surviving, and the second one ends again with a very close win, involving pretty much more enemy supercapital class ships than there are capital ships in the player's side thrown away casually to blow up a star, and no one knowing what was going to happen afterwards (which the modding community used in order to go wild with fan-made campaigns, some of which are excellent).
the first ends up with the only jump node (analogous to mass relay) to and from earth destroyed when the big bad 's capital ship is blown up mid-transit before it can glass earth (which it had already done to the homeworld of another sentient race also involved in the war), but with most of the rest of the systems surviving, and the second one ends again with a very close win, involving pretty much more enemy supercapital class ships than there are capital ships in the player's side thrown away casually to blow up a star, and no one knowing what was going to happen afterwards (which the modding community used in order to go wild with fan-made campaigns, some of which are excellent).
#17
Guest_PresidentCowboy_*
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:42
Guest_PresidentCowboy_*
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BobbyTheI wrote...
The obvious comparison would be to Red Dead Redemption.
* RDR SPOILERS INCOMING, AND WHY THE HELL HAVEN'T YOU PLAYED THIS YET? *
I don't seem to recall many petitions going around saying, "No, don't kill John Marston! Let him be happy with his family!" So the idea we're upset because the ending is "depressing" kinda loses steam at that point.
RDR's ending was tragic, but it fit with the themes of the game (the brutal death of the Old West, inability to escape your past) so it ranks among the greatest game endings of all time.
Meanwhile, ME3 pulls a Diabolus Ex Machina out of its butt, after two games of being told "If you fight hard enough, you and your comrades will make it." It betrays the theme of the fiction, and that's why it's so terrible.
Well, that and the massive plot holes and shoddy execution.
Totally agree. RDR ending was heartbreaking but beautiful, had a great message too and wrapped everything up nicely. ME3's raises more questions than it answers...
#18
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:43
detroitmechworks
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The trend I'm noticing that the downer endings really only work if nearly everything has been building up to that ending...
otherwise it feels... cheap...
otherwise it feels... cheap...
#20
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:44
ldcfirebird
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Persona 3. Main character dies at the end after sacrificing himself to save everyone. A sad ending but done really well.
#21
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:44
Penguins
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My favorite movie is In Bruges, which ends on a really downer note. I also really enjoyed Madoka Magica, which has the perfect amount of victory/sacrifice in the ending.
#23
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:46
Wattoes
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Game of thrones. 1st book/season.
Modifié par Wattoes, 13 mars 2012 - 06:46 .
#24
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:46
elessarz
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Shadow of the Colossus anyone? Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne?
#25
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:46
clonedoriginzero
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yup, RDR's ending was absolutely fantastic. i still regret letting my brother borrow my copy as i keep wanting to replay it, and im pretty sure he lost it and wont admit it lol
