181 réponses à ce sujet

[MzAdventure]

Tigerlily Warrior wrote...

Hey, take what v0rt3x22 is saying and watch this breakdown of the ending on youtube. It provides more evidence to back his theory.



From a purely business perspective, if EA wanted to continue the series, which all marketing and interviews with BW teams indicates they do, the ending should've left some room for old and new fans to contemplate until the development of ME4 begins. At this point, I don't want to even play ME, ME2, or ME3 again, so why would I want to buy ME4? It's bad business.

If v0rt3x22 is correct, when Bioware publicly addresses the community, it will be with news. What that news is, who's to say? Maybe a patch, maybe something bigger than a DLC. Something more like "Shepard's final mission" game like Dragon Age: Awakening. Here's hoping.

If if this is what they are up to, then it is an even worse slap in the face then the crappy ending.  To shamelessly manipulate the emotions and trust of a dedicated fanbase in such a warped fashion defies logic.

But then, they seem to be good at that.

[v0rt3x22]

victoriakm wrote...

Tigerlily Warrior wrote...

Hey, take what v0rt3x22 is saying and watch this breakdown of the ending on youtube. It provides more evidence to back his theory.



From a purely business perspective, if EA wanted to continue the series, which all marketing and interviews with BW teams indicates they do, the ending should've left some room for old and new fans to contemplate until the development of ME4 begins. At this point, I don't want to even play ME, ME2, or ME3 again, so why would I want to buy ME4? It's bad business.

If v0rt3x22 is correct, when Bioware publicly addresses the community, it will be with news. What that news is, who's to say? Maybe a patch, maybe something bigger than a DLC. Something more like "Shepard's final mission" game like Dragon Age: Awakening. Here's hoping.

If if this is what they are up to, then it is an even worse slap in the face then the crappy ending.  To shamelessly manipulate the emotions and trust of a dedicated fanbase in such a warped fashion defies logic.

But then, they seem to be good at that.

Could you elaborate?

Our emotions - as fans - are constanly being manipulated - for good or for bad.
That's what great story telling is partially about in my opinion.

We laughed, we cried - we feel so much for these characters.

The fact that we're enraged about having so many unanswered questions and are actively discussing it on these forums is a direct testament to that.

Mass Effect means a lot to the community - and yet - here we are flaming BioWare - the very guys who created and invoked these emotions in us.

[shepskisaac]

People really want the "it was just a dream" thing to be true lol. I mean c'mon, you just KNOW it wasn't a dream. Accept it, hope for ending DLC/expansion, but don't try to delude yourself grasping at straws.

[Slidikins]

rorako wrote...
After five years, at the last possible second, Shepard gets indoctrinated.

I honestly believe he was indoctrinated for the entire game. Starchild may have spoken at the end, but when he was "alive" Shepard was the only character to acknowledge him. Maybe he wasn't completely gone, since he's Shepard, but I think after everything he's gone through he might have had some level of indoctrination going into the third leg of this series.

The whole Starchild scene (or the whole Citidel) seems to be a visualization of his inner conflict(s). Starchild urges him away from the Destroy option, which seems to be the only good one in the end. In a meta sense, not picking Destroy only goes to show you're as indoctrinated as Shepard is, if not TIM.

[v0rt3x22]

IsaacShep wrote...

People really want the "it was just a dream" thing to be true lol. I mean c'mon, you just KNOW it wasn't a dream. Accept it, hope for ending DLC/expansion, but don't try to delude yourself grasping at straws.

So what's your take?

[zr0iq]

Slidikins wrote...

rorako wrote...
After five years, at the last possible second, Shepard gets indoctrinated.

I honestly believe he was indoctrinated for the entire game. Starchild may have spoken at the end, but when he was "alive" Shepard was the only character to acknowledge him. Maybe he wasn't completely gone, since he's Shepard, but I think after everything he's gone through he might have had some level of indoctrination going into the third leg of this series.

The whole Starchild scene (or the whole Citidel) seems to be a visualization of his inner conflict(s). Starchild urges him away from the Destroy option, which seems to be the only good one in the end. In a meta sense, not picking Destroy only goes to show you're as indoctrinated as Shepard is, if not TIM.

He wasn't. The prothean VI on Thessia confirms this. He wasn't even indoctrinated in the Illusive Man's base. So the only time when he could have become indoctrinated was in the last bits of the fight, but the Indoctrination is described by Benezia as a slow process, thus he couldn't be indoctrinated or Bioware is adding even more plot holes.

Though after these endings... who knows.

Modifié par zr0iq, 13 mars 2012 - 08:19 .

[DashRunner92]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Daoa wrote...

What hints?

"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we
are planning…you’d, we’ll – hold onto your copy of [Mass Effect 3]
forever."

https://twitter.com/...942797880541185

We should know already not to trust the tweets from people at Bioware. Remember the tweet about how awesome Mass Effect: Deception would be.. 

[v0rt3x22]

zr0iq wrote...

Slidikins wrote...

rorako wrote...
After five years, at the last possible second, Shepard gets indoctrinated.

I honestly believe he was indoctrinated for the entire game. Starchild may have spoken at the end, but when he was "alive" Shepard was the only character to acknowledge him. Maybe he wasn't completely gone, since he's Shepard, but I think after everything he's gone through he might have had some level of indoctrination going into the third leg of this series.

The whole Starchild scene (or the whole Citidel) seems to be a visualization of his inner conflict(s). Starchild urges him away from the Destroy option, which seems to be the only good one in the end. In a meta sense, not picking Destroy only goes to show you're as indoctrinated as Shepard is, if not TIM.

He wasn't. The prothean VI on Thessia confirms this. He wasn't even indoctrinated in the Illusive Man's base. So the only time when he could have become indoctrinated was in the last bits of the fight, but the Indoctrination is described by Benezia as a slow process, thus he couldn't be indoctrinated or Bioware is adding even more plot holes.

Though after these endings... who knows.

Did you read my first post? The one with information from the codex in the game?

The section where it says: Rapid indoctrination is possible?

[2484Stryker]

What irritates me the most about the ending is this - the notion that organic life has no way of co-existing with synthetic life that it created. That in order for life (both synthetic & organic) to go on, galactic civilization as it exists must end (with the destruction of the mass relays). Also the sheer arrogance of the Catalyst in assuming that it can make that choice (via the Reapers) for all cycles is, to me, disgusting.

I'm not looking for a perfect ending in which Shepard survives and everyone lives happily ever after. But how about an ending where life could go on as it is (with the Geth surviving). After all, if the Geth and Quarians could live together peacefully (or at least now has the possibility of doing so), why must we be forced to the conclusion that organic life & synthetic life must either combine, destroy one another, or one dominating over the other?

To me, the endings are horrible, and as far as I'm concerned, ME3 is one entire April Fool's joke.

[Rawgrim]

Legendaryred wrote...

Yea, there is no way the crucible would know about the kid that shepard saw died.

There never was a child. Only Shep sees the kid. Nobody else intaracts with the kid at all.

"-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when
Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is
gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".
-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of
it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the
reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't
have him under complete control."

[v0rt3x22]

2484Stryker wrote...

What irritates me the most about the ending is this - the notion that organic life has no way of co-existing with synthetic life that it created. That in order for life (both synthetic & organic) to go on, galactic civilization as it exists must end (with the destruction of the mass relays). Also the sheer arrogance of the Catalyst in assuming that it can make that choice (via the Reapers) for all cycles is, to me, disgusting.

I'm not looking for a perfect ending in which Shepard survives and everyone lives happily ever after. But how about an ending where life could go on as it is (with the Geth surviving). After all, if the Geth and Quarians could live together peacefully (or at least now has the possibility of doing so), why must we be forced to the conclusion that organic life & synthetic life must either combine, destroy one another, or one dominating over the other?

To me, the endings are horrible, and as far as I'm concerned, ME3 is one entire April Fool's joke.

Duely noted - but - as many times discussed - consider for a moment that the Child is a fabrication of the Reapers.

Wouldn't it then be possible that it's just feeding you a lie - in hope that you will believe it?

It would make perfect sense for them (The Reapers) - to tell you - yes, you can kill us this way - however you will loose everything else - in order to secure self preservation.

Shepard takes that risk - but that doesn't necessarily mean that what the child said - is true.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 13 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[The JoeMan]

Just saying but it would have been cool if this indoctrination theory was true and the blue and green space magic options resulted in a mission failure screen.

[shepskisaac]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

People really want the "it was just a dream" thing to be true lol. I mean c'mon, you just KNOW it wasn't a dream. Accept it, hope for ending DLC/expansion, but don't try to delude yourself grasping at straws.

So what's your take?

Many possibilities.

a) the endings are what they are, Normandy plothole included. People make mistakes, writers make mistakes. If they didn't, there would never be any plothole ever in any kind of fiction
the endings are what they are, but not everything that BioWare wrote and imagined was included in the game. It's the case of "author knows and understands it all but forgot to include the details for the audience to be able to understand it as he does".
c) deliberate DLC plan - cutting out Prothy for DLC was smart financial move. It ensured very high sales of the DLC because of how significant he is. Fans couldn't resist. Neither they would be able to resist "Major Coats + squadmates fight their way back to Normandy" or "Rescue Normandy from the space jungle" DLC.

Note that I'm just talking Normandy part. Everything else is clear to me (regardless if I like it or not). The Normandy + teleporting squadmates part is what's really jarring in the endings. This is not a case of "is this good resolution/writing or not". It's a case of "key content is missing" and thus no one has any idea what's happening with Normandy and squadmates in the final minutes of the game, before it crashes.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 13 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[v0rt3x22]

IsaacShep wrote...
The Normandy + teleporting squadmates part is what's really jarring in the endings. This is not a case of "is this good resolution/writing or not". It's a case of "key content is missing" and thus no one has any idea what's happening with Normandy and squadmates in the final minutes of the game, before it crashes.

I fully agree with you here and its the reason why I like the ending. It was unexpected - but it's very important to realize that - considering where certain clues hint at - it doesn't seem to be an absolute ending.

So it's a great twist in my opinion - because it leaves room for more.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 13 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Rawgrim]

IsaacShep wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

People really want the "it was just a dream" thing to be true lol. I mean c'mon, you just KNOW it wasn't a dream. Accept it, hope for ending DLC/expansion, but don't try to delude yourself grasping at straws.

So what's your take?

Many possibilities.

a) the endings are what they are, Normandy plothole included. People make mistakes, writers make mistakes. If they didn't, there would never be any plothole ever in any kind of fiction
the endings are what they are, but not everything that BioWare wrote and imagined was included in the game. It's the case of "author knows and understands it all but forgot to include the details for the audience to be able to understand it as he does".
c) deliberate DLC plan - cutting out Prothy for DLC was smart financial move. It ensured very high sales of the DLC because of how significant he is. Fans couldn't resist. Neither they would be able to resist "Major Coats + squadmates fight their way back to Normandy" or "Rescue Normandy from the space jungle" DLC.

Note that I'm just talking Normandy part. Everything else is clear to me (regardless if I like it or not). The Normandy + teleporting squadmates part is what's really jarring in the endings. This is not a case of "is this good resolution/writing or not". It's a case of "key content is missing" and thus no one has any idea what's happening with Normandy and squadmates in the final minutes of the game, before it crashes.

That bit is a halucination. Shep is just thinking up a happy ending for his closest friends. His Love interest is there (smiling and very happy. Odd, right?) Joker is there. Also smiling, even though EDI is supposedly dead. And the squadmate you used the most in the game also shows up. Why would The Normandy be fleeing a huge explosion, if there never was one? Shep just thinks the whole thing caused the Relays to explode. they never did.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I always thought it was weird they walked onto the derelict Reaper. Isn't that asking to be mind imprisoned?

[v0rt3x22]

Rawgrim wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

People really want the "it was just a dream" thing to be true lol. I mean c'mon, you just KNOW it wasn't a dream. Accept it, hope for ending DLC/expansion, but don't try to delude yourself grasping at straws.

So what's your take?

Many possibilities.

a) the endings are what they are, Normandy plothole included. People make mistakes, writers make mistakes. If they didn't, there would never be any plothole ever in any kind of fiction
the endings are what they are, but not everything that BioWare wrote and imagined was included in the game. It's the case of "author knows and understands it all but forgot to include the details for the audience to be able to understand it as he does".
c) deliberate DLC plan - cutting out Prothy for DLC was smart financial move. It ensured very high sales of the DLC because of how significant he is. Fans couldn't resist. Neither they would be able to resist "Major Coats + squadmates fight their way back to Normandy" or "Rescue Normandy from the space jungle" DLC.

Note that I'm just talking Normandy part. Everything else is clear to me (regardless if I like it or not). The Normandy + teleporting squadmates part is what's really jarring in the endings. This is not a case of "is this good resolution/writing or not". It's a case of "key content is missing" and thus no one has any idea what's happening with Normandy and squadmates in the final minutes of the game, before it crashes.

That bit is a halucination. Shep is just thinking up a happy ending for his closest friends. His Love interest is there (smiling and very happy. Odd, right?) Joker is there. Also smiling, even though EDI is supposedly dead. And the squadmate you used the most in the game also shows up. Why would The Normandy be fleeing a huge explosion, if there never was one? Shep just thinks the whole thing caused the Relays to explode. they never did.

That thought had crossed my mind as well - but I'm not entirely convinced if that is part of the indoctrination or not.

Like IsaacShep said - a key component is missing.

[Konges]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

rorako wrote...

After five years, at the last possible second, Shepard gets indoctrinated.

That means...game over, right? So, after hundreds of hours, we end up losing everything, and getting no end?

I think that's a very unhealthy assumption to make - one that many are making here - that the ending is absolute - and its 'Game Over'.

I strongly disagree with that notion - as BioWare has dropped more than enough hints that something is in the works.

So true.

[Nefelius]

Hopeful denial is hopeful.

[CenturyCrow]

v0rt3x22 wrote...
Has anyone actually bothered on reading the Codex?

I'm sorry for all the non-believers - but for me personally - this entire theory is currently the one that seems to have considerable suggesting evidence that it may be - infact - valid.

Which - in turn - also suggests at a cliff hanger ending - not an absolute!

All cards are still on the table if you ask me.

One counter to this, is while Shepard is on Thessia talking to the Prothean VI Vendetta (Priority: Thessia mission). When Kai Leng approaches, Vendetta says, "Indoctrinated presence detected. Activating security protocol."

So if Shepard had been indoctrinated at that point, it's not likely Vendetta would have communicated with Shepard.

So if Shepard did get indoctrinated, it had to happen between Thessia and the ending.

[shepskisaac]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I fully agree with you here and its the reason why I like the ending. It was unexpected - but it's very important to realize that - considering where certain clues hint at - it doesn't seem to be an absolute ending.

So it's a great twist in my opinion - because it leaves room for more.

Crashing on jungle planet and apparently being stuck there is a twist. Being in London (squadmates) + flying above Earth (Joker in Normandy) just to suddenly be in a completly different place and FTLing/jumping through relays is a plothole.

This ending has the same problems as KOTOR 2 ending had. Critical content is missing.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 13 mars 2012 - 08:44 .

[Nefelius]

CenturyCrow wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...
.

So if Shepard did get indoctrinated, it had to happen between Thessia and the ending.

Between leaving the Cerberus station and being hit by Habinja, actually, as the VI states almost the same thing on the base.

Modifié par Nefelius, 13 mars 2012 - 08:43 .

[v0rt3x22]

CenturyCrow wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...
Has anyone actually bothered on reading the Codex?

I'm sorry for all the non-believers - but for me personally - this entire theory is currently the one that seems to have considerable suggesting evidence that it may be - infact - valid.

Which - in turn - also suggests at a cliff hanger ending - not an absolute!

All cards are still on the table if you ask me.

One counter to this, is while Shepard is on Thessia talking to the Prothean VI Vendetta (Priority: Thessia mission). When Kai Leng approaches, Vendetta says, "Indoctrinated presence detected. Activating security protocol."

So if Shepard had been indoctrinated at that point, it's not likely Vendetta would have communicated with Shepard.

So if Shepard did get indoctrinated, it had to happen between Thessia and the ending.

Yes that is correct - but it does nothing to this theory - as the codex text suggests: "Rapid indoctrination is possible"

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 13 mars 2012 - 08:46 .

[SvRec]

It's a nice theory and I want to believe it but without any confirmation I won't jump to any conclusions and wait for legitimate intel.

[v0rt3x22]

IsaacShep wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I fully agree with you here and its the reason why I like the ending. It was unexpected - but it's very important to realize that - considering where certain clues hint at - it doesn't seem to be an absolute ending.

So it's a great twist in my opinion - because it leaves room for more.

Crashing on jungle planet and apparently being stuck there is a twist. Being in London (squadmates) + flying above Earth (Joker in Normandy) just to suddenly be in a completly different place and FTLing/jumping through relays is a plothole.

This ending has the same problems as KOTOR 2 ending had. Critical content is missing.

Valid - however that is assuming that the Normandy flight really happened.