181 réponses à ce sujet

[mjb203]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Ariaya wrote...
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we have, folks, is a cliffhanger--not an ending.

This is the single most aspect I've been trying to get across to the community.

There are more than enough hints to suggest that this is a cliffhanger.

To consider the end a 'Game-Over' and bash BioWare due to colossal failure - is just....sickening.

The game was completely awesome (and let's not forget about the rest of the game) - and as I already stated -

Shepard has changed - he's become tired and wants to see this through.

To have him surcumb to the Reapers is just a really great plot twist and opens all new possibilities.

The problem with this is that they promised to tie everything together and answer all our questions.  If this was Shepard getting indoctrinated, then it's just bad storytelling.  Not to mention, it makes the Stargazer conversation at the end make no sense.  And from a meta standpoint, if the Stargazer is an alien race that is telling the story based on one of Liara's time capsules, then it means we basically went through three games for nothing.  That isn't really a satisfying conclusion to the series, IMHO. 

[aimlessgun]

Leafs43 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...
The indoctrination theory is interesting and palatable up until this point. 

The idea that there is a 'correct' choice in this indoctro-hallucination that let's you 'win' by 'seeing through the indoctrination' is laughable and disgusting. It smacks of people who chose "destroy" because they wanted to live trying to rationalize their geth genocides. 

If you actually 'saw through the indoctrination', you wouldn't pick any of the choices, because everything presented is a lie (the fact that many people, when faced with the choices, explored every inch of the map to find another option is amusing). 

People who choose control want to defeat the reapers just as badly as those who choose destroy. Actually, people who choose control are more confident of their willpower and desire to win. 

The other 2 options, you give in to what the Reapers want.  You either choose control, which makes you part of the reapers or you choose synthesize, which also makes you part of the reapers.  And the reapers are not destroyed.

Destroy option is the only one you are told not to take and the one that the reapers pit against you as to run counter to everything you did in game.  And it's the only option where the reapers "die" which could mean symbolically you are destroying their influence in your head.

Your personal interpretation of control is that you become 'part of the reapers'. I'm not sure what that means exactly. 

In  my interpretation of control (assuming not a hallucination), the post-ending sequence goes down like this:

"Ok Reaper minions, find my crew and rebuild the mass relays"
*some years later*
"Ok Reaper minions, I'm done with you. Fly into a black hole."

If it's a dream, you symbolically dominate and master the reapers. I don't think that's 'what the reapers want'.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 13 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[v0rt3x22]

mjb203 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Ariaya wrote...
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we have, folks, is a cliffhanger--not an ending.

This is the single most aspect I've been trying to get across to the community.

There are more than enough hints to suggest that this is a cliffhanger.

To consider the end a 'Game-Over' and bash BioWare due to colossal failure - is just....sickening.

The game was completely awesome (and let's not forget about the rest of the game) - and as I already stated -

Shepard has changed - he's become tired and wants to see this through.

To have him surcumb to the Reapers is just a really great plot twist and opens all new possibilities.

The problem with this is that they promised to tie everything together and answer all our questions.  If this was Shepard getting indoctrinated, then it's just bad storytelling.  Not to mention, it makes the Stargazer conversation at the end make no sense.  And from a meta standpoint, if the Stargazer is an alien race that is telling the story based on one of Liara's time capsules, then it means we basically went through three games for nothing.  That isn't really a satisfying conclusion to the series, IMHO. 

Yes but again you're arguing that the ending is absolute - in which case, yes - it wouldn't be a really satisfying conclusion to the series.

But that's my point - everything points to it being a cliffhanger to something to come.

So everything is still on the table. There's still that opportunity to answer absolutely everything.

[Arokel]

I desperately want the indoctrination theory to be true. Any bit of hope is good right now.

The only thing stopping me from fully believing has to do with Arrival. In the weeks leading up to Arrival one of the pre-released images was of a series of numbers. There were several theories about what they were. One of the most popular was that they were a set of coordinates. It turns out these numbers did work as coordinates. They were a spot in space where the largest recorded explosion (a gamma ray burst) in history was seen. This explosion outshone the rest of universe briefly. It turned out this was false and many of us (inlcuding myself) were dissapointed.

I need some hope right now...

[mjb203]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

mjb203 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Ariaya wrote...
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we have, folks, is a cliffhanger--not an ending.

This is the single most aspect I've been trying to get across to the community.

There are more than enough hints to suggest that this is a cliffhanger.

To consider the end a 'Game-Over' and bash BioWare due to colossal failure - is just....sickening.

The game was completely awesome (and let's not forget about the rest of the game) - and as I already stated -

Shepard has changed - he's become tired and wants to see this through.

To have him surcumb to the Reapers is just a really great plot twist and opens all new possibilities.

The problem with this is that they promised to tie everything together and answer all our questions.  If this was Shepard getting indoctrinated, then it's just bad storytelling.  Not to mention, it makes the Stargazer conversation at the end make no sense.  And from a meta standpoint, if the Stargazer is an alien race that is telling the story based on one of Liara's time capsules, then it means we basically went through three games for nothing.  That isn't really a satisfying conclusion to the series, IMHO. 

Yes but again you're arguing that the ending is absolute - in which case, yes - it wouldn't be a really satisfying conclusion to the series.

But that's my point - everything points to it being a cliffhanger to something to come.

So everything is still on the table. There's still that opportunity to answer absolutely everything.

So then I'd have to buy DLC or another game to get answers that should've been given in this game?  Sorry, but no.  That's just bad business.  This was supposed to be the end of the Shepard trilogy, and I want to know what happened to Shepard.  That shouldn't require me purchasing future products to tie up loose ends.

[v0rt3x22]

mjb203 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

mjb203 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Ariaya wrote...
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we have, folks, is a cliffhanger--not an ending.

This is the single most aspect I've been trying to get across to the community.

There are more than enough hints to suggest that this is a cliffhanger.

To consider the end a 'Game-Over' and bash BioWare due to colossal failure - is just....sickening.

The game was completely awesome (and let's not forget about the rest of the game) - and as I already stated -

Shepard has changed - he's become tired and wants to see this through.

To have him surcumb to the Reapers is just a really great plot twist and opens all new possibilities.

The problem with this is that they promised to tie everything together and answer all our questions.  If this was Shepard getting indoctrinated, then it's just bad storytelling.  Not to mention, it makes the Stargazer conversation at the end make no sense.  And from a meta standpoint, if the Stargazer is an alien race that is telling the story based on one of Liara's time capsules, then it means we basically went through three games for nothing.  That isn't really a satisfying conclusion to the series, IMHO. 

Yes but again you're arguing that the ending is absolute - in which case, yes - it wouldn't be a really satisfying conclusion to the series.

But that's my point - everything points to it being a cliffhanger to something to come.

So everything is still on the table. There's still that opportunity to answer absolutely everything.

So then I'd have to buy DLC or another game to get answers that should've been given in this game?  Sorry, but no.  That's just bad business.  This was supposed to be the end of the Shepard trilogy, and I want to know what happened to Shepard.  That shouldn't require me purchasing future products to tie up loose ends.

Hehe. Now you're doing it again though. Assuming the worst.

Michael Gamble said that something is in the works - but he didn't specifically mention DLC - nor that it would cost anything.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

The actual PTSD like dreams combined with the presence of the kid.is probably the best source of credibility this ending has.

Modifié par PKchu, 13 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[Rip The Reaper]

To OP. Bioware could have done a better job, not out right SAY IT. but done a bit better, maybe a LITTLE more hinting

[Flammenpanzer]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

In addition - seeing that the Illusive Man was indoctrinated - and Udina working for the Illusive Man - it was another attempt of the Reapers to try and prevent an insurrection of all the races united against the Reapers.

I think at this point they are afraid of Shepard - and what he has become. A symbol of Hope.

Their success of finally gaining control of him - opens an entire new possibility on where this story might go.

I absolutely love it - because while we were all expecting the Reaper War to be over - Sovereign always said in ME1: The cycle cannot be broken.

But perhaps Shepard will be able to break free from his indoctrination.

It's such a good plot twist in my opinion.

Holy crap...could that be where they are taking the series? I can kind of picture that.

But then again, you really cannot go much further from 'we've got the entire galaxy's fleet here'. It either wins or dies there, there would not be much story left in that cycle.

That is...unless they do another trilogy on another cycle.

Modifié par Flammenpanzer, 13 mars 2012 - 10:06 .

[v0rt3x22]

[siefier25]

This actually makes sense. When shepard wakes up after the blast from harbinger, you hear his ears ringing and the comms say "everyone was wiped out". So basically it was all in his head. And the ghost boy. How would the reapers know about the boy unless they were in his head? He would obviously have to be indoctrinated. Good find OP.

[OblivionDawn]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Daoa wrote...

What hints?

"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we
are planning…you’d, we’ll – hold onto your copy of [Mass Effect 3]
forever."

https://twitter.com/...942797880541185

Woohoo, can't wait for my alternate apperance packs!

The tweet doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Wow, nice work OP. I ............ I'm a believer now. I really hope this doesn't bite me in the butt, but I believe the indoctrinationists are right. I've been indoctrinated, I guess...

[meiwow2]

You also hear voices while in your dreams where you go after the child.

[TeffexPope]

Amazing how many doubting thomases come out of the woodwork now that the indoctrination theory is popular.

****ing internet.

[v0rt3x22]

Ok something else that I just discovered -

http://youtu.be/1H24...tc?hd=1&t=1m59s

This is a 720p version of the Blue Ending - where Shepard takes control of the Reapers.

By doing so - he seems to 'Burn Up'.

If you put this on full screen - and freeze it at exactly 2:00 minutes -

You can make out Shepard's Eyes hinting at his indoctrination - as they are 1:1 on par with that of Saren in ME1 when he was indoctrinated.

It is hard to make out without putting the vid on fullscreen - better yet - replay the blue ending for yourself and check it out.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 13 mars 2012 - 10:26 .

[aimlessgun]

meiwow2 wrote...

You also hear voices while in your dreams where you go after the child.

Those voices are all from friends you've lost though, saying things that you've heard them say, so it's pretty standard dream stuff. 

[Kandon Arc]

OblivionDawn wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Daoa wrote...

What hints?

"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we
are planning…you’d, we’ll – hold onto your copy of [Mass Effect 3]
forever."

https://twitter.com/...942797880541185

Woohoo, can't wait for my alternate apperance packs!

The tweet doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

I hope they come in red, green and blue!

[t003]

 The Illusive man was indoctrinated. If Shepard was indoctrinated why would he/she kill him? There goes your theory.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Arokel wrote...

I desperately want the indoctrination theory to be true. Any bit of hope is good right now.

The only thing stopping me from fully believing has to do with Arrival. In the weeks leading up to Arrival one of the pre-released images was of a series of numbers. There were several theories about what they were. One of the most popular was that they were a set of coordinates. It turns out these numbers did work as coordinates. They were a spot in space where the largest recorded explosion (a gamma ray burst) in history was seen. This explosion outshone the rest of universe briefly. It turned out this was false and many of us (inlcuding myself) were dissapointed.

I need some hope right now...

Is that actually wrong though? In arrival, Shepard destroys a Mass Relay and creates a huge super-nova in the process (also, why doesn't this happen at the end of ME3???).... in theory, this could create a similar explosion that outshone the universe breifly, no?

[Arokel]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Arokel wrote...

I desperately want the indoctrination theory to be true. Any bit of hope is good right now.

The only thing stopping me from fully believing has to do with Arrival. In the weeks leading up to Arrival one of the pre-released images was of a series of numbers. There were several theories about what they were. One of the most popular was that they were a set of coordinates. It turns out these numbers did work as coordinates. They were a spot in space where the largest recorded explosion (a gamma ray burst) in history was seen. This explosion outshone the rest of universe briefly. It turned out this was false and many of us (inlcuding myself) were dissapointed.

I need some hope right now...

Is that actually wrong though? In arrival, Shepard destroys a Mass Relay and creates a huge super-nova in the process (also, why doesn't this happen at the end of ME3???).... in theory, this could create a similar explosion that outshone the universe breifly, no?

Good point it would have been incredibly bright.  Maybe not as bright as a gamma ray burst but still pretty darn bright.

[Rabbidsquirrel88]

My question that lends credibility to this theory is the kid on the citadel. The catalyst/reaper god... Whatever.

If he controls the reaper and is a part of the citadel...

Why did Soverign need Saren in ME1 at all? Couldn't the catalyst just activate the citadel mass relay? I mean it IS the citadel... Or so it claims...

Thats why I blew them to hell. Figured the reapers knew I had them by the daddy-bags and it was a last ditch effort to indoctrinate...

Modifié par Rabbidsquirrel88, 13 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[kato42]

Hm. Possible.

Unfortunately I see three problems with this:

1. Its still not a satisfactory way of handling things unless you know that there is another episode to resolve it. Otherwise its even more depressing.

2. It doesn't make a lot of sense unless absolutely nothing after the fight with TIM is real. Including the one choice where Shepard doesn't die. Also doesn't make sense with the Earth burns ending.

3. Why? Whats the point? If Shepard can't stop them they win, so if they have control over Shepard now, just kill him, or make him shoot himself, or something. Feeding Shepard this load of crap makes no sense.

So... I think this if this is true, its still bad writing.

And its probably just people grasping at straws in a vain hope that Bioware didn't drop the ball with the ending.

[The Irish Man]

There was a question on Twitter about the ending. A guy asked Bioware if this was the end of Shepard. They replied "We can't Sayyyyy". They have something up their sleeves but in the meantime all we can do is hope. And I support Shepard's indoctrination. Those aren't the real endings.

[Sc2mashimaro]

I have to backtrack a little. You did convince me that Shepard is being indoctrinated at the end, however, I still can only HOPE this means that the actual ending is still in route. It's still possible they meant for that to be the end of the story...